Does your non Catholic or Protestant belief, discounts the first 1500 years of Christians before your Christian faith began?

[Gabriel_of_12]

If you are a non Catholic or Protestant; And you believe your Christian faith is the Truth that Jesus left here on earth, and built his church upon your faith? explain why the first 1500 years of Christians who walked the earth before your Non Catholic or Protestant Christian faith began, can deny your Truth of your Christian faith to these first Christians who many of them went to their death joyfully for their Christian faith that does not reflect your non catholic or protestant christian belief’s?

Can you justify why your Christianity changed from these 1500 years of Christians who lived and died for their Christian faith, and why you dont practice Christianity the same as they did, and yet believe your Christianity supersedes these first 1500 years of Christians?

Peace

 

[Contarini]

If you are a non Catholic or Protestant; And you believe your Christian faith is the Truth that Jesus left here on earth, and built his church upon your faith?

No. Why would you think that I would believe that? Jesus did not found his Church on Anglicanism. The Church Jesus founded was the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. We as Anglicans claim to be one fairly small part of that Catholic Church. We gladly acknowledge Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox as members of that same Church, and most of us would say that Protestants are as well, though strict Anglo-Catholics would view Protestants much as Catholics do, if not more harshly (they deny that Anglicans are Protestant–a view with which I disagree).

Can you justify why your Christianity changed from these 1500 years of Christians who lived and died for their Christian faith, and why you dont practice Christianity the same as they did, and yet believe your Christianity supersedes these first 1500 years of Christians?

It doesn’t supersede. Anglicanism and other Protestant churches are continuations of pre-Reformation Christianity, as is “Roman” Catholicism.

Edwin

 

[Publisher]

I’m not sure I need to “justify” my faith practices…I worship the One who speaks to my condition and have found peace in Christ.

I have a living faith that seeks to find expression in today’s world with today’s complexities. I have no problems with those who wish to emulate the faith practices of those of the past…if they answer one’s needs, so much the better. How another worships no more proves it’s “Truth” than the clothes one wears to Meetings for Worship must match those who came before us…we serve a Living God…not a God of the past…I look to those who came before me to emulate their lives of faith…but I must make that faith my own…“God doesn’t have grandchildren…only Children.”

 

[Reformed]

If you are a non Catholic or Protestant; And you believe your Christian faith is the Truth that Jesus left here on earth, and built his church upon your faith? explain why the first 1500 years of Christians who walked the earth before your Non Catholic or Protestant Christian faith began, can deny your Truth of your Christian faith to these first Christians who many of them went to their death joyfully for their Christian faith that does not reflect your non catholic or protestant christian belief’s?

Can you justify why your Christianity changed from these 1500 years of Christians who lived and died for their Christian faith, and why you dont practice Christianity the same as they did, and yet believe your Christianity supersedes these first 1500 years of Christians?

Peace

With all gentleness and respect, how do you know that your doctrinal distinctives are the same as what the first century church believed and practiced? You may claim that you follow the teachings of the early church fathers (mixed bag of ideas). I have been reading some material of early church fathers from a Protestant perspective. I claim to follow the teachings of the original Apostles and the Church described in the Book of Acts and the Epsitles in the New Testament. At least we agree that the Bible is the Word of God. My justification is submitted through the Holy Scirptures.

 

[O.S.Luke]

If you are a non Catholic or Protestant; And you believe your Christian faith is the Truth that Jesus left here on earth, and built his church upon your faith? explain why the first 1500 years of Christians who walked the earth before your Non Catholic or Protestant Christian faith began, can deny your Truth of your Christian faith to these first Christians who many of them went to their death joyfully for their Christian faith that does not reflect your non catholic or protestant christian belief’s?

Can you justify why your Christianity changed from these 1500 years of Christians who lived and died for their Christian faith, and why you dont practice Christianity the same as they did, and yet believe your Christianity supersedes these first 1500 years of Christians?

Peace

Respectfully, these questions are a bit unrelated to the title of this thread.

To answer the question of the thread, Does your non Catholic or Protestant belief, discounts the first 1500 years of Christians before your Christian faith began?
My communion does not discount the first 1500 years of Christianity. But it not “my” Christianity. It is Christ’s. And I do not believe my faith or communion supercedes anyone else’s.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

No. Why would you think that I would believe that? Jesus did not found his Church on Anglicanism. The Church Jesus founded was the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. We as Anglicans claim to be one fairly small part of that Catholic Church. We gladly acknowledge Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox as members of that same Church, and most of us would say that Protestants are as well, though strict Anglo-Catholics would view Protestants much as Catholics do, if not more harshly (they deny that Anglicans are Protestant–a view with which I disagree).

It doesn’t supersede. Anglicanism and other Protestant churches are continuations of pre-Reformation Christianity, as is “Roman” Catholicism.

Edwin

I like your answers; So your Anglican faith although it comes after 1500 years later, you believe is a succession from the first 1500 years of Christianity? How is this so?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I’m not sure I need to “justify” my faith practices…I worship the One who speaks to my condition and have found peace in Christ.

I have a living faith that seeks to find expression in today’s world with today’s complexities. I have no problems with those who wish to emulate the faith practices of those of the past…if they answer one’s needs, so much the better. How another worships no more proves it’s “Truth” than the clothes one wears to Meetings for Worship must match those who came before us…we serve a Living God…not a God of the past…I look to those who came before me to emulate their lives of faith…but I must make that faith my own…“God doesn’t have grandchildren…only Children.”

Interesting? So your Christianity changes with the times? How does this reflect Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever more?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

With all gentleness and respect, how do you know that your doctrinal distinctives are the same as what the first century church believed and practiced?

Gabriel of 12
From Sacred Tradtion and Sacred Scripture. Unbroken succession to the Apostles themselves. Not to mention in every decade from the first century today lives on the Chair of Peter, assisted by the promise of Jesus Christ to always be with his Church.

You may claim that you follow the teachings of the early church fathers (mixed bag of ideas). I have been reading some material of early church fathers from a Protestant perspective. I claim to follow the teachings of the original Apostles and the Church described in the Book of Acts and the Epsitles in the New Testament. At least we agree that the Bible is the Word of God. My justification is submitted through the Holy Scirptures.

The difference here is the you make the claim that you follow the Apostles, The Catholic church was there hearing and learning from the Apostles before the Epistles were recorded for you to make the claim. This is part of my question, the first 400 years of Christians did not have the new testament, yet you Justify your faith by making the claim you follow the Holy Scriptures? So how does your Scripture belief, agree with those early Christians who had no bible to go by yet, until the Catholic church put the letters together and canonized them.

 

[Publisher]

Interesting? So your Christianity changes with the times? How does this reflect Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever more?

Jesus doesn’t change, but the world I live in does…my understanding changes…for Friends the question is always asked…“Thee tells me what the apostles say…thee tells me what the prophets say…what can thee say?”

Our faith is based on experiential relationship with the Eternal…the past has value only when it enhances our worship experience in the Present…we serve a Living God…who is present among us to teach His people Himself. Friends have understood their faith as “Primitive Christianity rediscovered”…not in it’s forms…but in it’s witness of the Living Presence among us now…we live in a “Realized Eschatology”…I understand it is not your belief, if you find fullness through your faith tradition we have no problem with that…we share a common faith in Christ…where that faith find common expression may not be in embracing the practices of the past, but finding how those “practices” are to be “incarnated” in today’s world with a Living Christ present among us.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Respectfully, these questions are a bit unrelated to the title of this thread.

To answer the question of the thread, Does your non Catholic or Protestant belief, discounts the first 1500 years of Christians before your Christian faith began?
My communion does not discount the first 1500 years of Christianity. But it not “my” Christianity. It is Christ’s. And I do not believe my faith or communion supercedes anyone else’s.

So am I lead to believe that your Christian faith being that it is Jesus Christ’s Christian faith, does not supersedes or conflicts with anyone else’s Christianity?

I am pleased to learn that your Christianity does not discount the first 1500 years of Christians. Can you say you believe and practice the same as they did for 1500 years?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Jesus doesn’t change, but the world I live in does…my understanding changes…for Friends the question is always asked…“Thee tells me what the apostles say…thee tells me what the prophets say…what can thee say?”

Our faith is based on experiential relationship with the Eternal…the past has value only when it enhances our worship experience in the Present…we serve a Living God…who is present among us to teach His people Himself. Friends have understood their faith as “Primitive Christianity rediscovered”…not in it’s forms…but in it’s witness of the Living Presence among us now…we live in a “Realized Eschatology”…I understand it is not your belief, if you find fullness through your faith tradition we have no problem with that…we share a common faith in Christ…where that faith find common expression may not be in embracing the practices of the past, but finding how those “practices” are to be “incarnated” in today’s world with a Living Christ present among us.

Very good, so you experience Jesus from the Primitive Christians by living in “Communion” with each other Thus “Friends”, that is wonderful. I sense the internal Love that Christianity brings to “Friends”. So it is not important to you how Christianity came to you from the first 1500 years unchanged?

 

[Publisher]

Very good, so you experience Jesus from the Primitive Christians by living in “Communion” with each other Thus “Friends”, that is wonderful. I sense the internal Love that Christianity brings to “Friends”. So it is not important to you how Christianity came to you from the first 1500 years unchanged?

It is only important if it brings with it that Living Presence that we experience now.

If it is important to you to continue in the practices that your religious forebearers engaged in, then by all means you should continue to do so…we both may share in the Living Presence in the here and now.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

It is only important if it brings with it that Living Presence that we experience now.

If it is important to you to continue in the practices that your religious forebearers engaged in, then by all means you should continue to do so…we both may share in the Living Presence in the here and now.

So then like O.S Luke your Christian faith; because you believe you experience the presence of Jesus, that all other Christians no matter how they experience Jesus by feeling or faith,or giving it a name as Jesus it is Ok by you? for all others to go on practicing their christianity to what they believe is Jesus? The first Christians for 1500 years all believed the same, why in our century we are different from them?

 

[East_and_West]

With all gentleness and respect, how do you know that your doctrinal distinctives are the same as what the first century church believed and practiced? You may claim that you follow the teachings of the early church fathers (mixed bag of ideas). I have been reading some material of early church fathers from a Protestant perspective. I claim to follow the teachings of the original Apostles and the Church described in the Book of Acts and the Epsitles in the New Testament. At least we agree that the Bible is the Word of God. My justification is submitted through the Holy Scirptures.

The problem is that your understand of those Scriptures is not consonant with the understand of the Scriptures that was held by the early Christians, men who were much closer in time and location to the preaching of the Apostles.

 

[Reformed]

The problem is that your understand of those Scriptures is not consonant with the understand of the Scriptures that was held by the early Christians, men who were much closer in time and location to the preaching of the Apostles.

I think your position is very subjective and bias. The only unbias source we have to discuss is the Holy Scriptures, even though we all see things through our own presuppositions.

 

[Publisher]

So then like O.S Luke your Christian faith; because you believe you experience the presence of Jesus, that all other Christians no matter how they experience Jesus by feeling or faith,or giving it a name as Jesus it is Ok by you? for all others to go on practicing their christianity to what they believe is Jesus? The first Christians for 1500 years all believed the same, why in our century we are different from them?

While I understand your position, I’m not so sure each and every Christian “believed” exactly the same. For the most part during that time many if not most Christians were illiterate so the only teaching they had was from the established church…so since the established church was telling them what shape their faith should take, I guess I would agree with that…however, for Friends it’s not adhering to certain “beliefs” or “dogmas” that “make us the same”, but living in our world as “incarnations” of the Life of Christ. Being a Christian is much more than “believing” but is more about doing.

If your beliefs, cause you to be more Christ like, kinder, gentler, more patient with others…if your beliefs inspire you to show mercy and gentleness…if your world becomes a better place because you have brought peace to a difficult situation, so much the better.

I have no desire to negate your belief in your church or in it’s practice…and I probably couldn’t even if I wanted to and tried.

Where ones life brings Christ to those one meet in the daily of life for me is the true test of whether I do “believe the same thing” or not…for those first disciples wanted nothing more than to let their Light shine before all men…if that is the desire and practice established for the first 1500 years and embraced, then yes, it does matter…but if it entails following the same ritual or any empty form that has lost touch with the world we live in…it is of no value to me except as an historical oddity.

 

[O.S.Luke]

So am I lead to believe that your Christian faith being that it is Jesus Christ’s Christian faith, does not supersedes or conflicts with anyone else’s Christianity?

I am sure it does not supercede. Again… the use of “someone else’s Christianity” puzzles me. Christianity is Christianity. No one can “claim” it.

I am pleased to learn that your Christianity does not discount the first 1500 years of Christians. Can you say you believe and practice the same as they did for 1500 years?

Again, I claim to be Christian, but I do not claim it to be “my Christianity.”

I don’t think anyone can claim beliefs and practices the same as the first 1500 years… even Catholics. There have been Councils since that time.

 

[East_and_West]

I think your position is very subjective and bias. The only unbias source we have to discuss is the Holy Scriptures, even though we all see things through our own presuppositions.

It interesting that you like this little tactic so much. Whenever you just don’t like the facts you call them “subjective”. Its not a very honest debating technique. I am asking you to objectively evaluate what the early Christians say. Their teaching are the closest to the Apostles and, thus, are more likely to be Apostolic. If you do, you will find that Catholicism is Apostolic. How on earth is that subjective? Are you sure that you understand the meaning of the word subjective? It does not mean that which disagrees with Reformed’s point of view.

 

[Reformed]

It interesting that you like this little tactic so much. Whenever you just don’t like the facts you call them “subjective”. Its not a very honest debating technique. I am asking you to objectively evaluate what the early Christians say. Their teaching are the closest to the Apostles and, thus, are more likely to be Apostolic. If you do, you will find that Catholicism is Apostolic. How on earth is that subjective? Are you sure that you understand the meaning of the word subjective? It does not mean that which disagrees with Reformed’s point of view.

I’m not sure we are here to debate each other into believing what the other person believes. Apologetics has it’s place, but it’s really not that important. I’m here so we can all grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ as a community who proclaims Christ. My prayer and goal is that we would all grow in affection toward our Triune God through the truth together. I really know in part, but that’s true for all of us.

 

[East_and_West]

I’m not sure we are here to debate each other into believing what the other person believes. Apologetics has it’s place, but it’s really not that important. I’m here so we can all grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ as a community who proclaims Christ. My prayer and goal is that we would all grow in affection toward our Triune God through the truth together. I really know in part, but that’s true for all of us.

You have been engaging in protestant apologetics since you been here so I am not sure why you are saying what you are saying above? Is it to get aour of the reality, that yes, the Church Fathers taught what the Catholic Church teaches and, thus the early Christian faith is more likely Catholic than Calvinist?