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Bluegoat
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I don’t think you are wrong in your basic point, but on the other hand there is a real place for masses without any music at all. In such circumstances I would hesitate to say they were just “ok”.
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VociMike
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And likewise, nobody is realistically saying that it must be all Gregorian chant and sacred polyphony at every Mass. Personally I’d be happy if a parish aimed at just one Mass a week with the musical ideal taught by the Church.
There is a spectrum of Masses: using music singled out as especially suitable by the Church - using other music allowed by the Church - using no music. Why do most parishes only get the last two choices?
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OraLabora
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IMHO, a Mass without music is infinitely preferable to one with bad music. Sometimes a very simple Mass with no music, but done reverentially, can be moving on its own by its sheer simplicity allowing us to focus entirely on the Paschal mystery made present on the altar. I can think of many 7 am weekday Masses that I have been to that have moved me nearly as much as one with all the Gregorian pomp and circumstance.
The quiet presence of the “usual suspects” there every day; going into the church when it is dark outside a half hour before Mass and quietly reciting Lauds, then coming out as the winter morning sun starts to light the day; the quiet piety of the faithful and the words of the Mass all add up to a very moving spiritual experience. I can’t think of a better way to start the day.
But it doesn’t mean every Mass should be that way. A solemn Sunday Mass deserves better than what seems to pass in most parishes these days. I was at a parish Mass last Sunday (in English, most unusual for me, usually I attend in French which is my first language). The music, to put it charitably, sucked.
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pnewton
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Other things being equal, Gregorian Chant should be given first place* in the liturgy*. I guess those are the phrases we disagree on. I take a very literal understanding of this, not adding anything to it. On a practical note, if some one thinks they can do a better job, they are free to take the helm.
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Cat
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But is it really charitable to say that music in a Mass sucks?
Why did it suck?
Was it the choice of hymns that you disliked? But maybe these hymns are meaningful and beloved by the members of that parish. Just because you don’t like a hymn doesnt’ mean it’s bad. I really dislike chant, but my opinion really doesn’t matter. does it?
Was it the musicians? Were they not very talented? Well, surely you don’t condemn them for lack of talent? At least they were using the talent they have been given. I wish that every Mass featured great singers and accompanists with breath-taking technique, but it doesn’t happen very often. I’m grateful that anyone is willing to get up and get to work making music and leading the congregation in music.
This is what I was talking about earlier, when I said I feel judged. Perhaps you were visiting MY parish when I was playing, and you’re talking about me and my fellow parioshioners. It’s hurtful, you know.
And it’s not necessary. The Mass music is the Mass music, and saying it sucks really won’t make much difference. Unless you are in a position to do something about it and affect good changes, well, it’s best to just accept it and be grateful and pray about any deficiences and offer up anything that you personally dislike or that you think that God dislikes. Grumbling is only going to corrode your soul and possibly (if they hear you) hurt the feelings of those who are trying their very best to make good music that honors the Lord Jesus in the Mass.
If you honestly see or hear something that is totally inappropriate (e.g., a Madonna look-alike singing “Like A Virgin” on Annunciation Day), then from what I understand, you are supposed to contact the priest and try to bring about changes that will eliminate the inappropriate or abusive music. I’m not saying that you should sit back and do nothing when evil is present. If there is something you can do, then do it. If there is nothing you can do except gripe, then don’t gripe.
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benedictgal
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I would have to agree with Ora Labora on this one. I prefer no music at Mass to horrible, banal and tripe music at the Mass. Furthermore, the only things that really should be sung in the Church’s hierarchy of music are the parts of the Mass, including the Gospel Acclamation, the Sanctus, the Memorial Acclamation and the Great Amen. These are the first order. The Gloria and the Agnus Dei belong to the next one. Even the parts of the Mass chanted in a simple tone are much better than what is out there right now.
During the second Sunday of Easter, my pastor gave the choir the weekend off. I look forward to this because we don’t have to sing bad music. My parochial vicar, during the Masses that he celebrated, had us do a simple chant for the parts of the Mass and chose traditional, Easter hymns. I have a news flash for you: the faithful sang. When the choir is there, the faithful do not sing. The parishioners said that they actually liked it when the choir wasn’t there. It’s not that they despise the choir. It’s just that it seems that the music is all about the choir and it does not take the faithful into account. The faithful respond to traditional, sacred music. They sang it. I helped lead the singing for the Communion hymn. When it came my turn to receive Holy Communion, someone else took up the slack and kept things going.
I told the new choir director that she needs to pick traditional pieces that the faithful will sing and not just have something merely for the choir. The music is not about the choir. To do that would relegate the choir to a performance group. My pastor praised the chlidren’s choir for their showmanship. This sends a bad message as to the purpose of the choir. I do not go to Mass to be entertained by listening to the choir. I go to Mass to pray.
The antiphons are the official prayer of the Church. They are in the Roman Missal. Hymns are the last option. The defaults are the Entrance and Communion antiphons. Unfortunately, the publishing houses treat the antiphons as though they were the proverbial red-headed stepchild. The Church sees things differently.
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Canto
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The problems is the GIRM says the texts for the Entrance Chant, Offetory Chant and Communion Chant have to be approved.
When parishes sing hymns, invariably they are not approved.
Some here at CAF have noted Mary did you know being sung at Mass
Aside from the fact I personally find the melody boring and the lyrics treat Mary as a moron, it contains heresy!We could start Mass all reading the antiphon and then chanting the Gloria Patri. Then we could chant the dialogue. Very simple to chant back and also with you, thanks be to God etc. Then work on the simple settings of the Kyrie, Sanctus etc and the Gloria from the Missa de Angelis. After hearing them over and over people will get used to the melodies and begin taking part instead of letting the Choir do all the work as the hymns (including the Sanctus and Gloria) invariably are too syncopated to sing.
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Bluegoat
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Tripe music! I’m sure we can all agree that there is no place for tripe at the Mass!
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Cat
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What you are saying is correct, but it’s NOT an ACTION plan. It’s just a wish.
“We could start Mass all reading the antiphon and then chanting the Gloria Patri.”
Are you saying that even if the organist/pianist or music director along with the cantor starts playing a hymn at the beginning of Mass, that the congregation should ignore the organists/cantor and “start reading the antiphon” instead?
How do you pass the word to “all” the congregation to ignore the hymn and start reading the antiphon instead? Do you not think that most of the congregation would ignore you and do as the cantor/organist is doing? I certainly would not listen to someone in the congregation who tried to tell me to ignore the organist/cantor.
I’m going to give an example of an Action Plan.
- Pray for several weekst, that your heart would be pure and that you would embody the Love of Christ in all your actions. Ask for God’s blessing and for God to stop you if your actions will hurt the Church.
- Call or email the Music Director or Liturgy director at your parish and set up a luncheon or coffee appointment. Tell him or her that you would like to discuss the possibility of including Gregorian chant in the Masses.
- At the luncheon/coffee appointment discuss, in a friendly, non-confrontatation way, your desire to see the parish adhere to the Church’s ideal of “Gregorian chant having pride of place in the Mass.” Bring along a copy of the documents where this quote is found and give the copy to the music director.
- Also bring along copies of some of the musical works that people in this thread are suggesting, or the email addresses where these can be downloaded.
- Tell the Music Director that you are willing to pay for any expenses that may arise in the process of including Gregorian chant, or that you are willing to work in the congregation to find others along with yourself who will help pay for any expenses. Take out your check book and ask “Who do I make this out to and how much should I write it for?”
- Tell the Music Director that you are willing to sing with whatever group is performing the Gregorian chant in the Mass. If you are not able to sing, then apologize profusely and let the Music Director know that you are glad that he/she has such a fine voice and will do a great job of singing Gregorian chant.
- Make sure to ask the Music Director about the priest’s viewpoints about chants. It may be that the Music Director would love to have Gregorian chant, but has been directed by the priests to avoid it in Mass. If this is the case, ask the Music Director if the two of you can work on an Action Plan to try to persuade the priest to change his mind.
- After the lunch/coffee, send the Music Director a thank you card and again express your willingness to help with the implementation of Gregorian chant, including providing financial support.
- Wait for a few weeks or months to allow the Music Director the opportunity to do the physical work involved in getting Gregorian chant established (ordering music, teaching the chant to a few cantors or the choir, re-scheduling the Masses to include Gregorian chant, etc.) Make sure to call or email once a week to inquire how things are going and offer any practical help. This is probably the hardest part of this Action Plan, as it is out of your hands and necessitates the Music Director making his/her own Action Plan and following it.
- If at the end of a few months, you still have not heard Gregorian chant in your parish, make another luncheon or coffee appointment with the Music Director and ask about the delay. Try to keep everything friendly and charitable.
- If it is clear that the Music Director clearly has no interest and was merely humoring you at the previous luncheon, then call or email and make an appointment with the priest of your parish. Do all the steps above over again.
- If the priest is equally resistant, you can continue to move up the pipeline if you don’t mind creating a controversy in your parish. OR you can find another parish that is more willing to work to include Gregorian chant in their Masses. OR you can simple let it rest and leave it in the Hands of God to take care of in His time.
- IF the Music Director and/or priest follow through, enjoy the beauty of the Gregorian chant in your parish.
Do you see that there are concrete ACTIONS in the above plan? “Call.” “Email.” “Luncheon.” “Pay expenses (write check).” “Volunteer.” “Make copies of documents and give them to Music Director.” “Follow up with phone calls or email.” etc.
Do you see that this Action Plan has a beginning, a middle, and a conclusion? It doesn’t start with “Everyone should…” or “The priest should…” or “The Church says…” It starts with “Pray,” and then moves on to “Call or email the Music Director.”
THIS is what I mean by an “Action Plan.” Action, not words or dreams or wishes or gripes. Without this kind of plan, I don’t see Gregorian chant happening in parishes, and I see those of you who wish it would happen continuing to be frustrated and unhappy.
Perhaps I should add another step to the Action Plan, or maybe more accurately a suggestion. “Stop talking about Gregorian chant, both online and to your friends in real life, and start working to implement it in your parish.”
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Canto
Guest
When the text is not approved I quietly read and meditate on the antiphon (direct quote from scripture). I find most people don’t sing with the choir as the songs are too syncopated and have difficult rhythms.
Traditionally the Entrance, Off and Com Chants were sung by the choir not the people. The people could sing the other parts of the Mass. The GIRM says “48. The singing at this time is done either alternately by the choir and the people or in a similar way by the cantor and the people, or entirely by the people, or by the choir alone.”
A parish would use the antiphon and Gloria Patri in place of the unapproved hymn. This is a pratice noted by the Catholic Encylopedia in parishes that were not able to chant the Roman Gradual.
Copies of Jubilate Deo would be much cheaper for parishes then buying expensive hymnals that have unapproved texts. And Jubilate Deo will never go out of date.
Why not both.
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Cat
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Boldface mine. I’m not arguing with what has been true in the past and what is liturgically correct now. I’m just trying to make everyone in this thread see that if there is no action plan, changes won’t happen.When the text is not approved I quietly read and meditate on the antiphon (direct quote from scripture). I find most people don’t sing with the choir as the songs are too syncopated and have difficult rhythms.
Traditionally the Entrance, Off and Com Chants were sung by the choir not the people. The people could sing the other parts of the Mass. The GIRM says "48. The singing at this time is done either alternately by the choir and the people or in a similar way by the cantor and the people, or entirely by the people, or by the choir alone."
A parish would use the antiphon and Gloria Patri in place of the unapproved hymn. This is a pratice noted by the Catholic Encylopedia in parishes that were not able to chant the Roman Gradual.
Copies of Jubilate Deo would be much cheaper for parishes then buying expensive hymnals that have unapproved texts. And Jubilate Deo will never go out of date.
Why not both.
There has to be a Step 1, Step 2, etc. to make these changes in the Masses. They don’t just spontaneously happen, unless the Holy Spirit chooses to work a miracle. And as I pointed out before, usually the Holy Spirit chooses to accomplish His work on earth through the mundane, slogging work of regular human beings.
I think you’re getting the idea, based on your final sentence, “Why not both?” I can certainly understand why people want to unload on other people that they think they can trust. That’s why people come to CAF–to ask questions and get some answers. That’s OK. It’s fun to chat and bounce ideas around and get a sense of where you are in relation to others on various issues.
But for several years now, since I joined CAF, I’ve seen people over and over berate local parishes for not having Gregorian chant and for offering only “banel drivel.” (Much too harsh a description, IMO.). These people have all the right ideas about what SHOULD be happening during Mass. **But wanting it to happen and working to make it happen are two very different animals. **
I WANT to lose weight. Last summer, I wanted to lose weight, but I did nothing. I ate anything I pleased and didn’t darken the door of the gym. Surprise–I didn’t lose weight, even though I REALLY wanted to and KNEW that it was the RIGHT THING to do and the doctors TOLD ME that I should lose weight.
Just wanting it, or just knowing that it’s right didn’t make it happen.
So back in November, I took action. I developed an Action Plan and started working it. I hired a personal dietician (registered) and started working with her bi-monthly. She has me doing things like journaling my calories and working on “mindful eating.” I am supposed to be eating no more than 1800 calories a day, and eating a balanced diet, not just junk. Another part of my Action Plan is exercise; I spend an hour a day in the gym doing recumbent biking (the only cardio I can do with my knees) and weights.
And guess what–I’ve lost twenty-two pounds. It’s taken six months, which is very, very slow. (Not like The Biggest Loser, where a contestant will lose 22 pounds in one week!). The dietician encourages me by saying that losing weight this slowly will mean permanent weight loss.
So I am happy with the results of my “Action Plan.” It’s working. Slowly and not pleasantly, and with many set-backs (road trips are hard–I tend to overeat). But it’s working, and by this time next year, I hope to have lost even more weight.
I think the same thing would happen with Gregorian chant if people who wanted it in Mass started working to get it established. Music doesn’t just happen. It is produced by human beings who are taught, practice, and then step up and do it.
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ElizabethPH
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For whatever your cause/mission is it takes some sort of effort nothing just
happens. No one is suggesting that it does. I helped get a ministry going in my parish; it has been a struggle at times and never effortless. If it wasn’t for that constant effort being put forth the ministry would die…and it would never have gotten off the ground in the first place. Some sort of plan is good. Like I’ve said before, you have at least a musical background; that’s a great deal and means something. Anything worthwhile like GC takes work to get going and keep going.
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roadsend
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Actually, the TLM was being said every Sunday and Holy Day at St. Birgitta’s by Father Milan as far back as the '70s.
I can clearly recall driving to St Birgitta’s on Pentecost Sunday during the second Mt. St. Helen’s eruption in 1980.
AB Levada was not assigned until 1986.
The article is incorrect in its assertion that it was initiated by AB Levada.
As far as a TLM being offered on a regular basis at other churches in the diocese, if so, it is a pretty well kept secret. If it is not regularly offered, it is of little help to folks from the other end of the diocese, who would have to drive hours to attend.
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Linusthe2nd
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You are kidding, right!! No chance, not in my lifetime.
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