Does your parish sing the ENTIRE recessional (closing) hymn?

[TrueLight]

:banghead: :banghead:

Your banging head icon made me laugh.

Just because singing can and should be used to praise God doesn’t mean that every hymn, no matter how bad or how long, needs to be sung to its completion. There is a time and place for everything, including singing. I don’t have any issue with singing all the verses for the hymns that are actually part of Mass. NONE. I love singing. I love hymns. But I don’t like standing there singing (along with about 5 other people) extra verses while Father is waiting for us in the hall.

Okay. So I was thinking about this just now. It could be I am just not aware of the different typesof services, but where else can a Catholic learn to sing hymns?

 

[Rahn]

May point is that you can make it rule for yourself, but not for anyone else.

I wouldn’t think of doing that. But, if your Mass attendance is guided only by the letter of the law and not the Spirit, I would be a bit worried.

 

[Rahn]

She means that you don’t change the liturgy to impose something that isn’t necessary. The music supports the liturgy, the liturgy doesn’t support the music.

Thanks for that, it makes sense. But, I would contend that the liturgy, in turn, supports man’s worship of God. Jesus said, in the gospel of Mark “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath”. Today, that would read “The liturgy was made for man, not man for the liturgy”.

I’m sorry, this is a bit of a sore spot with me. I’ve seen far too many show up late for Mass and then recieve the Lord and walk straight out of the church. While it may be “legal” to come in before the chalice is uncovered during offertory, and to leave after dismissal, to me, it violates the Spirit of the law. God desires the praise and communion of His people, when we approach Mass in the spirit of “what is the legal requirement for me to fulfill my obligation”, to me, we miss the point of it all.

 

[Sarabande]

I have never sung an entire recessional hymn in a long time unless Father decides to wait at the sanctuary for the majority of the recessional hymn (my old pastor liked doing this ) and then process out. The hymn ends when those, who participated in a special role during the Mass (readers, servers, the priest, etc.), reach the back of the church. Is there anyone out there that actually goes to a parish where the entire recessional hymn is sung?

I voted that it depends on the priest. Most priests at the parishes where I’ve cantored requests that we end the hymn by the second verse or at least until he’s finished walking up the aisle, sometimes they insist on only singing one verse. There was a priest at my former parish where I used to cantor who would have a fit if we sang more than one verse. The same for the processionals. Most insist on only two verses or to end the hymn as soon as he reaches the altar. Doesn’t matter if it was only one verse.

You can also sometimes tell when a priest likes the recessional hymn because he’ll either rush right out and won’t sing or will sing about two verses before he processes out of the church. The priest right now doesn’t mind all the verses if everyone is still singing. But most of the time, in my experience, it has been up to the priest celebrating the mass and not the organist/music director deciding how long the recessional hymn will be.

 

[benedictgal]

Thanks for that, it makes sense. But, I would contend that the liturgy, in turn, supports man’s worship of God. Jesus said, in the gospel of Mark “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath”. Today, that would read “The liturgy was made for man, not man for the liturgy”.

I’m sorry, this is a bit of a sore spot with me. I’ve seen far too many show up late for Mass and then recieve the Lord and walk straight out of the church. While it may be “legal” to come in before the chalice is uncovered during offertory, and to leave after dismissal, to me, it violates the Spirit of the law. God desires the praise and communion of His people, when we approach Mass in the spirit of “what is the legal requirement for me to fulfill my obligation”, to me, we miss the point of it all.

With all due respect, you are comparing apples to watermelons. Actually, the liturgy was made for God by no less than God, Himself. A recessional is not required. In fact, it is not even mentioned in the approved liturgical books.

Furthermore, if a recessional should be used, it should only be as long as to cover the recessional procession of the celebrant and the servers. As a rule of thumb, both the introductory and concluding rites should be brief.

Incidentally, I had to cantor at Mass yesterday (at the very last possible minute I was drafted into service and without accompaniment). The recessional I chose was Holy, Holy, Holy. The recessional procession lasted long enough to allow for two verses to be sung. The celebrant did not complain and thanked me afterwards.

 

[Joan1969]

Just because singing can and should be used to praise God doesn’t mean that every hymn, no matter how bad or how long, needs to be sung to its completion. There is a time and place for everything, including singing. I don’t have any issue with singing all the verses for the hymns that are actually part of Mass. NONE. I love singing. I love hymns. But I don’t like standing there singing (along with about 5 other people) extra verses while Father is waiting for us in the hall.

Hi Corki,

I just see your view here as too legalistic. I can’t see the reason why we don’t stay for an extra couple of minutes to praise God musically, as a community. We are not singing to ourselves.

If the music is bad, or if the majority are choosing to leave immediately following the priest, then that is a cultural problem with the parish, not with the principle of singing an appropriate portion of the given hymn. As I implied before, as few as three verses should be adequate. Ideally, most would stay even further than this to be making a thanksgiving for Communion.

God Bless,
Joan

 

[benedictgal]

Hi Corki,

I just see your view here as too legalistic. I can’t see the reason why we don’t stay for an extra couple of minutes to praise God musically, as a community. We are not singing to ourselves.

If the music is bad, or if the majority are choosing to leave immediately following the priest, then that is a cultural problem with the parish, not with the principle of singing an appropriate portion of the given hymn. As I implied before, as few as three verses should be adequate. Ideally, most would stay even further than this to be making a thanksgiving for Communion.

God Bless,
Joan

Ideally, you pray in thanksgiving after receiving Holy Communion. The rubrics (and Sacramentum Caritatis) also strongly recommend a period of sacred silence during this time.

The concern here is actually tacking on something extra to the Mass when the Church does not even address the issue. We should not take it upon ourselves to mandate something that Rome has not even ordered.

 

[Corki]

Hi Corki,

I just see your view here as too legalistic. I can’t see the reason why we don’t stay for an extra couple of minutes to praise God musically, as a community. We are not singing to ourselves.

If the music is bad, or if the majority are choosing to leave immediately following the priest, then that is a cultural problem with the parish, not with the principle of singing an appropriate portion of the given hymn. As I implied before, as few as three verses should be adequate. Ideally, most would stay even further than this to be making a thanksgiving for Communion.

God Bless,
Joan

Actually, my view is **anti-**legalistic. The song after the dismissal is not something that is regulated. If you want to stay and sing, fine. If you don’t, fine. Some people in this thread are trying to impose an obligation that the Church does not.

 

[benedictgal]

Actually, my view is **anti-**legalistic. The song after the dismissal is not something that is regulated. If you want to stay and sing, fine. If you don’t, fine. Some people in this thread are trying to impose an obligation that the Church does not.

That is quite true. Why should we bind people to do something when Rome does not even do so?

 

[stephraim]

That is quite true. Why should we bind people to do something when Rome does not even do so?

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Some people in this thread are trying to impose an obligation that the Church does not.

I agree.

 

[Corki]

Okay. So I was thinking about this just now. It could be I am just not aware of the different typesof services, but where else can a Catholic learn to sing hymns?

Do you want to learn to sing hymns or do you want to experience the singing of hymns?

There are plenty of hymns sung at Mass. There are also hymns sung at Liturgy of the Hours. I have several cassettes and CDs with traditional hymns and (gasp) Praise and Worship music. I find the latter most suitable for singing in my car at high volume.

 

[Digitonomy]

Furthermore, if a recessional should be used, it should only be as long as to cover the recessional procession of the celebrant and the servers.

It sounds like you are imposing your own rule here.

benedictgal:

As a rule of thumb, both the introductory and concluding rites should be brief.

I thought we agreed this isn’t technically part of the concluding rite.

 

[catholictiger]

the organist at my church usually does a postlude, him improvising on some church hymn cords.

only time we do recessional hyms are on big feasts days like Easter and Christmas, and the bishop usually sings the Halleluiah chorus then after its finished he exits.

 

[benedictgal]

It sounds like you are imposing your own rule here.I thought we agreed this isn’t technically part of the concluding rite.

No. I am not. The rubrics do not call for excessive entrance processional music. It should end when the celebrant reaches the chair.

 

[TrueLight]

Do you want to learn to sing hymns or do you want to experience the singing of hymns?

There are plenty of hymns sung at Mass. There are also hymns sung at Liturgy of the Hours. I have several cassettes and CDs with traditional hymns and (gasp) Praise and Worship music. I find the latter most suitable for singing in my car at high volume.

I already know quite a few hymns, thanks. Although a lot of them are not Catholic hymns.

However, I learned and experienced them by raising my voice in song to the Lord. If there were no hymns sung at my church, I would never have learned them and I would have missed out.

How many people actually attend the Liturgy of the Hours? If all you have is a written copy (I happen to have the audio), what are you do do? Score the internet for music or an mp3?

Come on!

I find all the thumbs up at this quote extremely disheartening.

Actually, my view is anti-legalistic. The song after the dismissal is not something that is regulated. If you want to stay and sing, fine. If you don’t, fine. Some people in this thread are trying to impose an obligation that the Church does not.

 

[Digitonomy]

"benedictgal:

Furthermore, if a recessional should be used, it should only be as long as to cover the recessional procession of the celebrant and the servers.

Digitonomy:

It sounds like you are imposing your own rule here.

No. I am not. The rubrics do not call for excessive entrance processional music. It should end when the celebrant reaches the chair.

 

[benedictgal]

There is no need for confusion. Would you rather I just say exit?

 

[Digitonomy]

There is no need for confusion. Would you rather I just say exit?

You appeared to be prescribing your own rule limiting the length of recessional music. When I made a remark to that effect, you denied it, and cited a rule that has nothing to do with recessional music. Hence the confusion.

 

[benedictgal]

You appeared to be prescribing your own rule limiting the length of recessional music. When I made a remark to that effect, you denied it, and cited a rule that has nothing to do with recessional music. Hence the confusion.

No. I am not prescribing my own rule. Even at Papal Masses, after the Holy Father finishes incensing the altar and goes to his chair, the singing ceases.