Doesn't the Bible teach us that Jesus did have siblings??

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nella
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You are twisting scripture and inserting words and people that are not there.
 
I’m still waiting, Nella, for you to provide the Scripture that gives the listing of all the works to be found in Scripture, as well as the Scripture that tells us that all Christian teaching is to be found ONLY in Scripture.
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And, BTW, why is it that Catholics believe and teach what Scripture says in that Jesus taught that He would give His ‘real flesh and real blood’ to us to eat. . .but most Protestant Churches teach that communion is only a symbol–denying what Scripture has, right there in black-and-white. . .
 
Tantum_ergo said:
And, BTW, why is it that Catholics believe and teach what Scripture says in that Jesus taught that He would give His ‘real flesh and real blood’ to us to eat. . .but most Protestant Churches teach that communion is only a symbol–denying what Scripture has, right there in black-and-white. . .
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AH, very good point. I agree with you 100% on that count. Those Protestants who only view this as a symbol are wrong.
 
Nella said:
You are twisting scripture and inserting words and people that are not there.
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PEOPLE? :confused: We’re inventing people now?

Jesus promised to guide his Church (NOT all his followers, NOT anyone who breaks away from His original church founded upon the Apostles), for as long as it exists, into all truth (not just scriptural truth, His truth is surely greater than the few meagre pages of Scripture).

That means the Church authorities both during and after the time of the Apostles have full right and duty to interpret Scripture for us as the need arises. And even to declare non-Scriptural truth as it is revealed to them.
 
LilyM said:
PEOPLE? :confused: We’re inventing people now?

Jesus promised to guide his Church (NOT all his followers, NOT anyone who breaks away from His original church founded upon the Apostles), for as long as it exists, into all truth (not just scriptural truth, His truth is surely greater than the few meagre pages of Scripture).

That means the Church authorities both during and after the time of the Apostles have full right and duty to interpret Scripture for us as the need arises. And even to declare non-Scriptural truth as it is revealed to them.
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If what you said here were true, there would be no need for anyone to have a Bible, but we know that it is not true. The scriptures even tell you to study the word of God so you will know the truth. It doesn’t say this to one body of people to do this for everyone.
 
Nella said:
If what you said here were true, there would be no need for anyone to have a Bible, but we know that it is not true. The scriptures even tell you to study the word of God so you will know the truth. It doesn’t say this to one body of people to do this for everyone.
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So what did people do in the 20-odd years before a word of the New Testament was written, not to mention the 40 to 50 years before Revelation was written??? Not have the truth?

What about those who couldn’t read? Did they not have the truth?

NO. Jesus said to His Apostles ‘who HEARS you hears me’, not ‘who reads what you’ve written hears me’. And Paul, in Timothy, calls the CHURCH the ‘pillar and bulwark of truth’. Nowhere is such a claim made for the Scripture. Paul puts oral tradition on an equal level with written scripture as sources of teaching (‘keep the traditions which I have passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter’)
 
Nella said:
If what you said here were true, there would be no need for anyone to have a Bible, but we know that it is not true. The scriptures even tell you to study the word of God so you will know the truth. It doesn’t say this to one body of people to do this for everyone.
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Nella,

There is no need for a Bible. Jesus didn’t direct one to be written. St Paul didn’t check his paraphrases and misquoted OT passages for veracity. The Psalms and Deuteronomy gave additional information on historical events for the Jewish peoples’ chronicles.

The Catholic Church gave us the Bible. Not to be a How-To-Be-A-Better-Christian-Than-Thou book or If-it-ain’t-in-here-it-ain’t-holy book!

The Bible does not predict itself nor does there exist any statement in the early Church that the Bible is the be-all and end-all for salvation and grace.

Quit depending on a version of Scripture that wasn’t used by the early Christians.

Depend on the Word of God. We Catholics call the Word ‘Jesus’ as in “God Saves.”

We have the Bible because it contains EVERYTHING the Church has always taught from Pentacost to 382 AD with its composition (names and number of books) were determined/

Robert
 
Nella said:
If what you said here were true, there would be no need for anyone to have a Bible, but we know that it is not true. The scriptures even tell you to study the word of God so you will know the truth. It doesn’t say this to one body of people to do this for everyone.
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Scripture also warns against the private interpretation of scripture because it can lead to a person’s ruin.
 
Nella said:
Would you bet your soul that Benedict XVI is infallible?
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Are you implying that Christ is not to be believed when He assured Peter that whatever Peter bounded on earth would be bound in heaven and whatever Peter loosened on earth would be loosened in heaven?

If you don’t believe Christ on this point, why believe any of His other teachings?
 
Sir_Knight said:
Scripture also warns against the private interpretation of scripture because it can lead to a person’s ruin.
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Actually, the Scriptures warn against the private interpretation of prophecy of scripture.

2 Peter 1:19-21 said:
19And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
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Just FYI… 🙂
 
Nella said:
I understand what you are saying but too many times, scripture speaks of Jesus’ brothers and sisters with him along with Mary and Joseph. Wouldn’t it be very odd that his cousins spent that much time with their aunt and uncle instead of their own parents??
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But then, take each case, and trace back who each of these people actually is.
In every case, the “brothers & sisters” turn out to have their parents identified.Which is very significant, when you consider that there are so many in the Bible whose families are NOT identified.

Don’t forget, either, that it is possible that these could be children of Joseph’s by an earlier marriage. I remember this being mentioned in the Eastern Christianity forum some time ago, that “James, the brother of the Lord” is regarded in the eastern church, as being the stepbrother who was the closest to Jesus.

Maybe, becasue I grew up in the Holiness tradition, it seems simple to me, where it is harder for others, but I grew up calling everybody “Brother” & “Sister”. That was ordinary speech. So when I see this is in Scripture the same, it seems natural to understand that these are titles of affection and/or of relationship other than literal blood brother & sister…

HTH
 
Singinbeauty said:
Actually, the Scriptures warn against the private interpretation of prophecy of scripture.

Just FYI… 🙂
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Peter also speaks of Paul’s letters “…in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction” (2 Peter 3:16).

So no, it’s not just prophecy but private interpretation of all Scripture that is condemned.
 
Nella,

You regret not being able to receive the Eucharist when you visit your parents. Yet one would wonder why you would want to desire to be unified with Christ’s Church when you despise some of the core beliefs? Also, you stand by the True Presence of the Eucharist which is not found outside of Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

No protestant church fully believes in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist [Body, Blodd, Soul, and Divinity]. Their teachings range from pure symbol, memorial to something that relies upon what the belief of each individual recipient is. So if they believe it is, it is…for the person next to them it is only a symbol…Sad that you have removed yourself from something that you desire so strongly…why is that?

You decry the “Catholic” spin upon scriptures [a Catholic Book - which by the way is the Canon of the Curch - what is a canon - the core but not the totality of an organization]. Yet much of scripture and Christian understanding comes from interpreting the scriptures. Christians [fairly universally] state that Jesus Christ is “Pre-figured” throughout the Hebrew Texts [OT]- fore-told, hidden in the prophesies. Jesus is revealed in the New Testament [the revelation of the OT] So that what was hidden comes into full view…

And to answer why there is not more written about Mary in the New Testament - Canon of the Curch - the Core Beliefs? Well it is simply this…Jesus is at the core, the very heart of Christianity. Jesus is the focus, the Church He left us for guidance is the secondary focus…and once the Early Church realized that the Second Coming was going to be delayed, they worked to preserve the core beliefs…

The Church looked at a compendium of writings, the Bishops established a criteria and they accepted some writings, rejected otehrs. What we have is a Catholic compendium called the Bible…

And FYI, Luther, Calvin and Zwingli all believed in Mary being Ever Virgin - which of course excludes other children or marital relations with Joseph…I wonder why they believed that…
 
Nella said:
And Mary and Joseph not having physical relations** UNTIL** after Jesus was born. Why would Roman Catholics believe that Mary remained a virgin her whole life and Jesus did not have siblings?
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consider these verses:

Luke 1:80
And the child grew and became strong in spirit; and he lived in the desert until he appeared publicly to Israel.
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John was in the desert “up to the point of his manifestation to Israel.” Not John “was in the desert until after” his manifestation.

Luke 2:37
and then was a widow until she was eighty-four. She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying.
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Anna was a widow “up to the point that” she was eighty-four years old. She was not a widow after eighty-four years old.

Luke 20:41-43
Then Jesus said to them, "How is it that they say the Christ is the Son of David? David himself declares in the Book of Psalms:
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.” ’
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Jesus is not going to require the apostles to sit at His left hand after their enemies are their footstool.

1 Tim. 4:13
Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching.
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"up to the point that I come," attend to teaching and preaching. It does not mean do nothing “until after” I come.

Gen 8:7
and sent out a raven, and it kept flying back and forth until the water had dried up from the earth.
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the raven flew back and forth “up to the point that” [until] the waters dried from the earth. The raven did not start flying after the waters dried.

Deut 34:6
He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is.
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but “up to the point of today” no one knows Moses’ burial place. This does not mean that “they did not know place until today.”

2 Sam 6 :23
And Michal daughter of Saul had no children** to the day of her death.**
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Saul’s daughter Micah was childless "up to the point" [until] her death. She was not with child after her death.
 
Quick question.

Was Revelation written before or after Mary’s death? Just trying to p(name removed by moderator)oint the whole assumption thing.
 
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