Doesn't your relationship with God matter more than your denomination?

[goout]

i am catholic but i feel more engaged by protestant worship and preaching and appreciate the close fellowship offered by some protestant communities. i feel that my relationship with God would become deeper and my discipleship would become more intentional by joining a protestant church. please enlighten as to why this is a sin if my overall relationship with the Lord is improved.

thank you

If we lived solitary lives as individuals it probably wouldn’t matter what our faith looked like. But faith draws us towards unity. We live faith as a community. If we are not living faith as a community, then we do not have faith.

That community looks like something. It exists. It is instituted.
The question for all of us is, where is that community?

Our experiences and emotions do not always point us in the direction of truth. They are big helps, but are not the final arbiter.
The fact that you feel more drawn to a particular type of worship does not mean it is the church Christ established.

If you don’t believe Christ established a Church than all of this is moot.

 

[susanlo]

Well, the teaching is that that is a grave matter.

If there’s one thing that I’ve seen over and over on CAF, it’s the mistaken notion that every grave matter is a mortal sin.

What is the difference between “grave matter” and mortal sin?

 

[Duane1966]

What is the difference between “grave matter” and mortal sin?

Hence, in the church’s doctrine and pastoral action, grave sin is in practice identified with mortal sin. - Pope St. John Paul II

Just remember, a mortal wound if untreated will send you to the grave.

 

[mark_a]

What is the difference between “grave matter” and mortal sin?

“matter” is an action or lack of.
“Grave” is a very serious nature of an offense. Not all matter is grave.
“Sin” is the offense of having fallen short.
“mortal” is deadly, capable of separating one from God if not repented of.

In order for one’s sin to be mortal,
the offense must be grave matter.
one must know it’s grave matter.
one must give full consent of the will.

 

[HelenRose]

Hi Wannano. From the Catholic pov, it would be wrong.

Likewise, if I believed that Lutheranism were true and Catholicism false, then I would conclude that it would be wrong (but not automatically sinful) for someone to leave Lutheranism for Catholicism.

It is not wrong nor sinful to leave the false for the truth.

If the Lutheran Church was the true church then it would be wrong to leave it.

If the Catholic Church is the true Church, which I believe, it would be wrong to leave it.

If we would leave either for reasons other than what we believe to be true and just want to have an excuse to do what we want, then that would be a lie and definitely sinful.

 

[neophyte]

i am catholic but i feel more engaged by protestant worship and preaching and appreciate the close fellowship offered by some protestant communities. i feel that my relationship with God would become deeper and my discipleship would become more intentional by joining a protestant church. please enlighten as to why this is a sin if my overall relationship with the Lord is improved.

thank you

You think that disobedience will improve your relationship with him? That’s a really strange notion.

 

[Rosebud77]

My father and my grandparents, Sicilians, told me it was a sin for me to even enter a protestant church. I know differently, but it was part of my upbringing.

A friend and neighbour when I was first in Ireland and still Anglican, told me that they were taught to cross the road to avoid passing an Anglican church.One day she and a friend climbed up to look through the windows.

 

[Rosebud77]

This seems to introduce a Church/God dichotomy which takes things just a little to far. It’s like suggesting to a person in the first century that they can love God and not be part of the communion of the Apostles, that group of intimate friends of Christ whom Christ appointed as leaders over the church.** It’s a message of individualism which Christ never revealed and spoke out against. Does the family God cease to be **important after the death of the last apostle or does it’s importance continue to persevere throughout every century?

No it isn’t. Not in any way. Actually maybe the opposite is true

 

[Rosebud77]

So the substance of what you are saying is you want an emotional experience, so the protestant religion sounds attractive to you. Let’s change up what you said a bit and compare it to a relationship:

“I am married to a lady I just feel who doesn’t meet my emotional needs, but i feel more engaged by this other woman, and the way she talks to me and appreciate the close fellowship offered by some of her family members. I feel that my relationship with God would become deeper and my life would become more fulfilled by hanging out with this girl and pursuing an intimate relationship with her. Please enlighten as to why this is sin if my overall relationship with the Lord is improved.”

That is a terrible analogy and very insulting to any Christian. Anglicans are deeply religious and love God. It is where I learned to know and love Jesus,

 

[Rosebud77]

Hi Usige. I don’t know your background (I read this ^^ post because I wanted to know what Rosebud was referring to, but I haven’t read all your other posts on CAF), but let me just reiterate what I said on the PNCC thread: I don’t think names are helpful.

Hi Rosebud. My understanding is this:** officially the Sunday Obligation applies to both Catholics and ex-Catholics (“never-been-**Catholics” are off the hook), but practically speaking we typically trust that the ex-Catholic is following his/her conscience.

Hence why we don’t go round to ex-Catholics houses (or churches) on Sunday morning and say “You’re in mortal sin if you aren’t at the Catholic church in X number of minutes.”

No .Simply no. If i leave the Catholic church then I leave it. Period. My free choice. The Church has no further rights over me. Actually what you aver alienates so much.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Having struggled with this dilemma my two cents are to focus on the Eucharist, try to gain an appreciation of what you would be turning away from. I understand your need for fellowship, I haven’t had anyone in my life for Catholic fellowship since University and it can be a very lonely place. I often fear that I don’t have what it takes to follow my faith alone but I have chosen to trust God and that through him I will have the strength.

Some people will disagree but I don’t think there is anything wrong with fellowship with other people of faith, I mean I wouldn’t expect them to say the rosary with you but you can still pray for each other and support one another in growing your faith.

 

[Rosebud77]

If **we lived solitary lives as individuals it probably wouldn’t matter what our faith looked like. But faith draws us towards unity. We live faith as a community. If we are not living faith as a community, then we do not have faith. **

That community looks like something. It exists. It is instituted.
The question for all of us is, where is that community?

Our experiences and emotions do not always point us in the direction of truth. They are big helps, but are not the final arbiter.
The fact that you feel more drawn to a particular type of worship does not mean it is the church Christ established.

If you don’t believe Christ established a Church than all of this is moot.

Can you expand that please? I actually do you see live life as a solitary BUT am at the heart of the church and the way I live and give is of Christ… Actually this is something the Anglicans say far more than Catholics usually do with the greater emphasis on fellowship.

So no I do nto live my faith as in a community. We face God alone at the end. As we live lives separate all our lives too…WORSHIPPING as a group is a different matter but COMMUNITY is far far more than that.
The early church LIVED community as do eg Bruderhof,

 

[Peter_J]

No .Simply no. If i leave the Catholic church then I leave it. Period. My free choice. The Church has no further rights over me. Actually what you aver alienates so much.

I’m sorry, but the distinction between ex-Catholics and never-been-Catholics is a real distinction. Not necessarily one that matters too much in practice (as I said, practically speaking we typically trust that the ex-Catholic is following his/her conscience) but real nevertheless.

 

[Chewy66]

I was told by Catholic friends that if someone is a member of the Catholic Church and then chooses to stop attending the Catholic Church and join another Christian church, that this would be a mortal sin and there would be no chance for salvation. Those who have never been a member of the Catholic Church could achieve salvation as a separated brethren because of ‘invincible ignorance.’ Is this not correct teaching anymore?

I am in the same situation, I’ve recently started my journey back and have been told that I will have to confess it as a mortal sin when I make my confession.

 

[Rosebud77]

Peter J;14267280**:

I’m sorry, but the distinction between ex-Catholics and never-been-Catholics is a real distinction

. Not necessarily one that matters too much in practice (as I said, practically speaking we typically trust that the ex-Catholic is following his/her conscience) but real nevertheless.

To YOU but not to someone who has moved…

 

[adamhovey1988]

I’m sorry, but the distinction between ex-Catholics and never-been-Catholics is a real distinction. Not necessarily one that matters too much in practice (as I said, practically speaking we typically trust that the ex-Catholic is following his/her conscience) but real nevertheless.

“Ex-Catholics” don’t exist according to the Church. This is an important thing to remember.

 

[rcwitness]

I was told by Catholic friends that if someone is a member of the Catholic Church and then chooses to stop attending the Catholic Church and join another Christian church, that this would be a mortal sin and there would be no chance for salvation. Those who have never been a member of the Catholic Church could achieve salvation as a separated brethren because of ‘invincible ignorance.’ Is this not correct teaching anymore?

A couple of things. A mortal sin would only prevent one from heaven if one is aware of the sin, and deliberately continues doing such. I know this sounds close to “relativism”, but it’s not. It only means that someone’s full culpability depends on whether they know something is sinful or not.

And someone doesn’t achieve salvation based on ignorrance, rather on what they do accept from the Gospel. Invincible ignorrance can diminish their culpability for faults and shortcomings.

 

[rcwitness]

i am catholic but i feel more engaged by protestant worship and preaching and appreciate the close fellowship offered by some protestant communities. i feel that my relationship with God would become deeper and my discipleship would become more intentional by joining a protestant church. please enlighten as to why this is a sin if my overall relationship with the Lord is improved.

thank you

If that’s what you are convinced of, there is probably nothing we can say to change your heart. I know that I’ve had the benefit of hearing good preaching from Protestant pastors. I also know that I have benefitted from Catholic preaching and moreover, the Sacraments. I think if your priority is preaching that convinces you about what is from above, then you may find a good preacher there or here, or maybe not here or there. Maybe you will find one there and then he will be gone. And maybe not find one here and then one will arrive.

I devote to His Word and Eucharist above all, then apply that devotion to those around me, and from those around me. Developing relationships with church members takes time. I try not to let that supercede what I cherish the most.

My parish has struggles. It has strengths and weaknesses. I want to be part of the strength of the parish. Sometimes that means confessing that I am weak.

I choose to come together on account of the ancient Tradition of His Body and Blood. We partake of this one sacrifice and we should do our best to receive in a worthy manner. This is far from being content with Faith Alone, but suppliments faith with steadfastness, Godliness, Charity, forgiving others, confessing our sins, and love of neighbor.

 

[josh987654321]

I think you misunderstand Protestant worship. Jesus is fully and totally present.

Jesus promised:
19“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

I think you misunderstand Catholic Worship. Especially the teaching on the real presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

**Eucharistic Miracle of Poland, Sokólka, October 12, 2008 **

Sokólka, October 12, 2008 (Part 1) – (PDF: 1.41M)
Sokólka, October 12, 2008 (Part 2) – (PDF: 1.31M)
Sokólka, October 12, 2008 (Part 3) – (PDF: 1.41M)

**Eucharistic Miracles of Argentina, Buenos Aires, 1992 - 1994 - 1996 **

Buenos Aires, 1992 - 1994 - 1996 (part 1) - (PDF: 1.46M)
Buenos Aires, 1992 - 1994 - 1996 (part 2) - (PDF: 1.42M)
Buenos Aires, 1992 - 1994 - 1996 (part 3) - (PDF: 1.25M)

Eucharistic Miracle of Italy, Lanciano, 750 A.D.

Lanciano, 750 A.D. (part 1) – (PDF: 186k)
Lanciano, 750 A.D. (part 2) – (PDF: 194k)

‘My belief in miracles cannot be considered a mystical belief: it is founded on human evidence, as is my belief in the discovery of America. It is, indeed, a simple logical fact that hardly needs to be recognized or interpreted. The extraordinary idea going around is that those who deny the miracle know how to consider the facts coolly and directly, while those who accept the miracle always relate the facts with the dogma previously accepted. In fact, the opposite is the case: the believers accept the miracle (with or without reason) because the evidence compels them to do so. The unbelievers deny it (with or without reason) because the doctrine they profess tells them to do so.’

• G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy

Sacred Heart of Jesus - (St Margaret-Mary Alacoque)

http://s15.postimg.org/uc0cy5a0r/st_margaretmary2.jpg

Jesus to St Margaret-Mary Alacoque -

"Behold the Heart which has so loved men that it has spared nothing, even to exhausting (Crucifixion) and consuming Itself (Last Supper, Eucharist), in order to testify Its love; and in return, I receive from the greater part only ingratitude, by their irreverence and sacrilege, and by the coldness and contempt they have for Me in this Sacrament of Love. But what I feel most keenly is that it is hearts which are consecrated to Me, that treat Me thus. Therefore, I ask of you that the Friday after the Octave of Corpus Christi be set apart for a special Feast to honor My Heart, by communicating on that day, and making reparation to It by a solemn act, in order to make amends for the indignities which It has received during the time It has been exposed on the altars. I promise you that My Heart shall expand Itself to shed in abundance the influence of Its Divine Love upon those who shall thus honor It, and cause It to be honored."

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh