Dog Meat

[pnewton]

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So how’s that for starters? **Pope Benedict **also has a lot to say about animals, ecology, and our responsibility as stewards to the rest of God’s creation. I can post some of our current Pope’s words in a later post, if you like.

Not very good. Nothing posted draws the conclusion that you derive that Catholics should not eat meat. This is a simple enough thing to say if that is what the Catholic Church ever decides to teach. So far, the Church does not teach this.

 

[pnewton]

So killing animals and making them suffer is about taste???

Because the title is specifically about *dog *meat. You should know this. I am trying to return to the topic at hand instead. Were you trying to set a trap? If not, why do you keep expanding this trying to further a vegetarian agenda?

This section is on Catholic moral theology. With regards to animals, the Church always has taught that cruelty is wrong, yet killing animals for food is fine. It has taught since the vision of Peter that there is not a distinction between clean and unclean animals for food. The Church has never taught, and does not teach now in your quotes, that a Catholic should eschew meat.

I instead, chew meat.

 

[survive]

I tried the vegan way for a while and got really messed up. I read the books, did it right, and still got physically and neurologically clobbered by the imbalances. Everyone’s body is different, and we omnivorous species are very variable in our meat/veg needs. I need plenty of both to be healthy. Lots of us do. Supplements don’t necessarily do the trick because the combinations have to be timed. We can’t all absorb them easily either.
It also has to do with what other challenges your body lives with. Are you in a polluted area? How’s the climate? How hard do you work? Etc.
As to the topic, dog meat, well, if it’s just to survive, I see nothing wrong with eating dog meat. However– it needs to be hygienically raised and processed.:tsktskogs, as with pigs, raccons, possums, squirrels and catfish to name a few, can harbor a lot of parasites dangerous to man. So be careful with the street food out there. And never eat pets.

 

[distracted]

Because the title is specifically about *dog *meat. You should know this. I am trying to return to the topic at hand instead. Were you trying to set a trap? If not, why do you keep expanding this trying to further a vegetarian agenda?

This section is on Catholic moral theology. With regards to animals, the Church always has taught that cruelty is wrong, yet killing animals for food is fine. It has taught since the vision of Peter that there is not a distinction between clean and unclean animals for food. The Church has never taught, and does not teach now in your quotes, that a Catholic should eschew meat.

I instead, chew meat.

there is in Catholic teaching, i vaguely recall… something about murdering humans…:coffeeread:

hmmmm… does that have to do with moral theology???

the dogs in China are apparently more important to some people than the millions of unborn and their poor mothers who have no choice but to allow the gov to kill them…

but i guess that issue is ho hum these days… compared to saving animals…

I can understand why people don’t have such a great love for other humans… humans can be something else… but they are nonetheless created in God’s image and God loves them even if we don’t… and little helpless children in the womb have not done anything wrong anyhow… Children have to be taught wrong behavior and that is adults’ fault…

in any case, i frankly think its a violation of Catholic teaching to obssess over animals while … while Christ is being crucified all over again, in the womb… St Mt 25:31 tells us that whatever we do to the least of Christ’s brethren (NOT animals) we do to Him…

 

[Lethe]

I am a vegetarian, and as such I do disagree with this treatment of the dogs - But it all depends on what you regard as NECESSARY suffering - I dont need meat, so I do not eat it. I think it’s wrong to kill animals for food unless you are in need of that food. I would consider it gluttony to eat meat every day at every meal (or 2 out of 3 meals) because no human needs that, unless they have allergies, medical problems etc that stop them eating most other foods. Humans are omnivores in the same way pigs are, and even then have less sharp teeth natrually, so would, I think, need less meat. We need protein and iron, but these can and do come from vegetable sources also. There isnt really an excuse for the amount of animals slaughtered in the world, except that people like the taste.

(I’m not saying people should have NO meat - my vegetarianism is my choice - but people should eat less meat, and should think about where it comes from and how, and be grateful for it.)

 

[Marfran]

This section is on Catholic moral theology. With regards to animals, the Church always has taught that cruelty is wrong, yet killing animals for food is fine.

So, inotherwords, it is your belief, as you understand Catholic teaching, that being cruel to animals is wrong, but if you give them the label as “food” animals then a “free pass” is given for any cruelty, pain. discomfort, or suffering that they experience, and if not committed by your own hand, it is OK to purchase “meat” and animal products raised this way?

 

[Marfran]

I am a vegetarian, and as such I do disagree with this treatment of the dogs - But it all depends on what you regard as NECESSARY suffering - I dont need meat, so I do not eat it. **I think it’s wrong to kill animals for food unless you are in need of that food. **I would consider it gluttony to eat meat every day at every meal (or 2 out of 3 meals) because no human needs that, unless they have allergies, medical problems etc that stop them eating most other foods. Humans are omnivores in the same way pigs are, and even then have less sharp teeth natrually, so would, I think, need less meat. We need protein and iron, but these can and do come from vegetable sources also. There isnt really an excuse for the amount of animals slaughtered in the world, except that people like the taste.

(I’m not saying people should have NO meat - my vegetarianism is my choice - but people should eat less meat, and should think about where it comes from and how, and be grateful for it.)

I agree with your post. There are other posters here who insist that ***meat is meat ***and that we have no obligation to consider where the meat comes from, and how the animal is mistreated or abused in life.

 

[Marfran]

Because the title is specifically about *dog *meat. You should know this. I am trying to return to the topic at hand instead. Were you trying to set a trap? If not, why do you keep expanding this trying to further a vegetarian agenda?

This section is on Catholic moral theology. With regards to animals, the Church always has taught that cruelty is wrong, yet killing animals for food is fine. It has taught since the vision of Peter that there is not a distinction between clean and unclean animals for food. The Church has never taught, and does not teach now in your quotes, that a Catholic should eschew meat.

I instead, chew meat.

Dog meat. And in the OP I ask*** “does the species of animal make a difference?”*** So other species are welcome here.

Although not a vegetarian,** the new Pope has spoken about the exploitation of all beings, particularly of farmed animals. **When he was asked about cruelty to animals in a 2002 interview, he said,

"That is a very serious question. At any rate, we can see that they are given into our care, that we cannot just do whatever we want with them. Animals, too, are God’s creatures… Certainly, a sort of ***industrial use ***of creatures, so that geese are fed in such a way as to produce as large a liver as possible, or hens live so packed together that they become just caricatures of birds, this ***degrading of living creatures to a commodity ***seems to me in fact to contradict the relationship of mutuality that comes across in the Bible. "

Cardinal Ratzinger was echoing official church teachings laid out in the Catholic Catechism, which states clearly that “Animals are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory. Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals. . . . It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. ”[41]

 

[Roman_Army]

Okay, I agree in principle that the way these Factory farms work is not good and that animals should be killed in a more humane way. But, I honestly cannot afford to buy organic meat and many others cannot either. I also need meat at least occasionally, and not having it drives me insane. So, is it okay if I support legislative efforts to address this issue to make factory farms more humane (let animals have grass under them, see the sun, more room to frolic, better diet, etc.), to make slaughter houses more humane, and to make dairy and egg plants more humane, while at the same time occasionally eating the meat, dairy, and eggs that comes out of them? Vegan and vegetarian diets are too cruel for me and others to follow. I tried to eat an eggplant dish and a tofu dish at a Chinese restaurant once during Lent and I almost puked! Such meatlike vegetarian dishes make me nauseous. Now, mushrooms on the other hand I can tolerate better with a nice sauce or seasoning. I also cannot tolerate eating salads every single day. Something’s got to give.

 

[pnewton]

So, inotherwords, it is your belief, as you understand Catholic teaching, that being cruel to animals is wrong, but if you give them the label as “food” animals then a “free pass” is given for any cruelty, pain. discomfort, or suffering that they experience, and if not committed by your own hand, it is OK to purchase “meat” and animal products raised this way?

Animals are for food. It is not just a label. It is inherent in their creation and an intergral part of their purpose. But yes, it is perfectly okay to buy meat, if that is the core of the question. Your attempt at a logical syllogism assumes that killing an animal is cruel. It also assumes that the eating of meat is unnecessary. These are two assumptions I do not agree with and that the Church has never spoken on.

"That is a very serious question. At any rate, we can see that they are given into our care, that we cannot just do whatever we want with them. Animals, too, are God’s creatures… Certainly, a sort of ***industrial use ***of creatures, so that geese are fed in such a way as to produce as large a liver as possible, or hens live so packed together that they become just caricatures of birds, this ***degrading of living creatures to a commodity ***seems to me in fact to contradict the relationship of mutuality that comes across in the Bible. "

I agree 100 %. I will still grill up a steak now and then. I never have eaten dog, though.

As you pointed out, despite this understanding of the problem inherent in animal cruelty, he was still a carnivorous cardinal.

 

[Tamsulosin]

doens’t bother me one bit…
especially since if you believe the Bible… God told people to slaughter animals all the time for sacrifice and they had to eat the whole thing… Jesus ate meat @ the Passover…

animals have to die anyway… What’s the diff between it dying and killing it? People who live to over 110 all ate meat… no vegans live beyond the age of about 55 or so… depending on when they started vegan-izing…

this is NOT true…

in the bible it says Porverbs, i believe, that it is a shame for a man not to live to be 100…

again, vegans don’t always live even half that long…

i did research on this… you can google it… people who live to be 110 and over are called supercentenarians… NONE of the ones i studied yrs ago was a vegan or even vegetarian…

i knew 2 people who lived to be almost 100 & they ate meat… They didn’t over-eat and that’s probably mainly how they lived so long…

cholesterol, they are finding, is not the villain they used to think… How can it be when your whole body is made up of cholesterol… the cells, i should say… trillions of cells and they all need it…

declining chol levels are a warning sign… Doctors … when they see this, tend to thnk one of several things: Cancer, AIDS, diabetes or some other wasting disease…

those in nursing homes w/ the highest chol levels lived longer, some study recently found…

my HDL (healhty chol) was highest when i was on Atkins… my ratios were the best they have ever been…

i could go on and on…

To all those reading this post, before going into the diet which Distracted recommends:a lot of greasy red meat ,bacon , etc, which he states is good for cholesterol levels,and would increase your longevity to maybe 100 years , please, consult your own doctor. Advise as such, is dangerous and could lead you to a heart attack.You are safer consuming whole grains, lots of colorful vegetables and fruits, nuts, fish.
But again do not take my word for it. He or she will clarify the point.You may then come back and tell us what the doctor said so that we can benefit with the knowlege of the correct facts.Thank you.

 

[severus68]

2418
It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.

This passage sadly leaves out many lonely people, some elderly people whose family does not visit them,or who have no one except for a pet that gives him or her sweet companionship.
In reciprocity, that human" directs affection to the pet".That surely cannot be a sin.
Maybe I do not understand the distinction 2418 makes between love and affection.
Is affection superior?
Again if a person has no one, God may place a pet in her or his life for spiritual solace.
The old man may spend money to feed the dog, talk to the dog as if it was a child.
Who would condem this man for feeding his companion dog instead of sending money to a human charity?
Animals are not objects, and should not be “exploited” if we can avoid it.The world would not be the same if there were no animals,birds that sing,squirrels that make us smile with their cute presence,and dogs that run happily to meet us wagging their tails.It would be a more somber world.
We better take care and appreciate the animals, rather than think what can I extract from them.
When I think of those dishes showing the cut head of the pig holding an apple in the mouth!!!What a horror.Kindness and compassion are the trademark of Christianity

Well said.

 

[severus68]

there is in Catholic teaching, i vaguely recall… something about murdering humans…:coffeeread:

hmmmm… does that have to do with moral theology???

the dogs in China are apparently more important to some people than the millions of unborn and their poor mothers who have no choice but to allow the gov to kill them…

but i guess that issue is ho hum these days… compared to saving animals…

I can understand why people don’t have such a great love for other humans… humans can be something else… but they are nonetheless created in God’s image and God loves them even if we don’t… and little helpless children in the womb have not done anything wrong anyhow… Children have to be taught wrong behavior and that is adults’ fault…

in any case, i frankly think its a violation of Catholic teaching to obssess over animals while … while Christ is being crucified all over again, in the womb… St Mt 25:31 tells us that whatever we do to the least of Christ’s brethren (NOT animals) we do to Him…

Are you deliberating trying to confuse the issue at hand?

Two wrongs do not make one right. People who care about animals are not necessarily pro abortion. God loves and cares about his animals. He made them.

 

[severus68]

Animals are for food. It is not just a label. It is inherent in their creation and an intergral part of their purpose. But yes, it is perfectly okay to buy meat, if that is the core of the question. Your attempt at a logical syllogism assumes that killing an animal is cruel. It also assumes that the eating of meat is unnecessary. These are two assumptions I do not agree with and that the Church has never spoken on.

I agree 100 %. I will still grill up a steak now and then. I never have eaten dog, though.

As you pointed out, despite this understanding of the problem inherent in animal cruelty, he was still a carnivorous cardinal.

It is not “inherent in their creation”. Please read Genesis.

Marfran is pointing out issues with eating meat with an emphasis on the cruelty. No one can or is trying to force anyone to stop eating meat.It obviously has to be a personal choice.

It is not unChristian to be a vegetarian or a vegan. We can all try to make the world a better place in various ways. Being a vegan or a vegetariarian is also going in the direction of the perfect world God wanted.

 

[Marfran]

It is not “inherent in their creation”. Please read Genesis.

Marfran is pointing out issues with eating meat with an emphasis on the cruelty. No one can or is trying to force anyone to stop eating meat. It obviously has to be a personal choice.

It is not unChristian to be a vegetarian or a vegan. We can all try to make the world a better place in various ways. Being a vegan or a vegetariarian is also going in the direction of the perfect world God wanted.

For many of us it is our faith, and understanding of the tenets of our faith, that has helped us to make the personal choice of refraining from the participation in the cruel industry of factory farming.

I personally can not participate in the promotion of cruelty to animals, by purchasing products from an industry that abuses and mistreats God’s creatures. Even if the abuse is not by my own hand, I feel that I have equal culpability if I were to purchase products from mistreated animals.

There are also many other factors to consider when deciding not to participate in purchasing “factory farmed” products. This thread is specifically about cruelty to “meat” animals–dog, cat, cow, pig, chicken–of all cultures–and whether this cruelty is against our faith and morals–but there are some other, ***even stronger ***reasons not to participate in purchasing “factory farmed” products. (For example, the misappropriation of resources–crops are raised specifically to feed all these “meat” animals and to fatten them up for slaughter. We are feeding animals instead of people with that food. Directing this food to people instead could help ease, if not ***end ***the global food crisis…)

The dogs in the video are not factory farmed animals, and the treatment of them is appalling to most Westerners. But many Westerners eat the meat of other animals and ***are not aware, or chose not to acknowlege ***that our “factory farms” are responsible for just as immense suffering and pain, and a degraded way of life to the species of animals that we raise for food and by-products (milk, eggs).

The issue isn’t so much the “eating of meat” as it is the mistreatment of animals (for this thread’s purpose). And how does one personally contribute to this practice, or ***affect a change ***in these practices? There are of course, a lot of good health reasons not to eat meat, but people who chose ***ethical vegetarianism ***make a personal difference that impacts the negation of these practices.

For those who will not consider, or can not consider giving up meat, yet find animal abuse intollerable, how can you make a difference to end these abuses?

 

[Marfran]

Originally Posted by Tamsulosin
2418
It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.

This passage sadly leaves out many lonely people, some elderly people whose family does not visit them,or who have no one except for a pet that gives him or her sweet companionship.
In reciprocity, that human" directs affection to the pet".That surely cannot be a sin.
Maybe I do not understand the distinction 2418 makes between love and affection.
Is affection superior?
Again if a person has no one, God may place a pet in her or his life for spiritual solace.
The old man may spend money to feed the dog, talk to the dog as if it was a child.
Who would condem this man for feeding his companion dog instead of sending money to a human charity?

severus68: This is an aside, but I do not interpret 2418 to mean that a lonely, elderly person can not enjoy and love an animal companion. It says: “***One can ***love animals.” It goes on to say: “one should not direct to them the affection ***due only ***to persons.” If you choose a puppy over your child–neglect your child over that puppy–if you choose to have a dog or goat sleep in your bed, and kick your spouse to the curb in favor of that animal… If your spouse has died, and your adult children are busy with their own lives–you what, can not have a pet to be a companion–to spend time with and love?? You must find a human that you can pat on the top of the head???

Our current Pope has a pet** cat**. And I am sure that he treats the cat well and loves it. He does not have a wife or children. Could he be accused of directing affection to his cat that is due only to persons??? I think not. 2418 is a tricky one to understand, and I think can be easily misinterpreted. Too bad it wasn’t written more clearly.

 

[severus68]

Originally Posted by Tamsulosin
2418
It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.

severus68: This is an aside, but I do not interpret 2418 to mean that a lonely, elderly person can not enjoy and love an animal companion. It says: “***One can ***love animals.” It goes on to say: “one should not direct to them the affection ***due only ***to persons.” If you choose a puppy over your child–neglect your child over that puppy–if you choose to have a dog or goat sleep in your bed, and kick your spouse to the curb in favor of that animal… If your spouse has died, and your adult children are busy with their own lives–you what, can not have a pet to be a companion–to spend time with and love?? You must find a human that you can pat on the top of the head???

Our current Pope has a pet** cat**. And I am sure that he treats the cat well and loves it. He does not have a wife or children. Could he be accused of directing affection to his cat that is due only to persons??? I think not. 2418 is a tricky one to understand, and I think can be easily misinterpreted. Too bad it wasn’t written more clearly.

I think many people interpret 2418 to mean that it is wrong to love any animal with such love and affection. Your explaination makes much sense of a Christian teaching. Thank you.

 

[Newbie2]

So what is the OP’s point of this thread; to ask whether or not it is right to eat certain species and not others or should we be eating meat at all (since all meat nowadays is allegedly produced at the suffering of the animals involved)? I suspect the latter.

 

[4elise]

So what is the OP’s point of this thread; to ask whether or not it is right to eat certain species and not others or should we be eating meat at all (since all meat nowadays is allegedly produced at the suffering of the animals involved)? I suspect the latter.

I would think that raising the question might help/cause individuals to consider their own food choice?

While many might find it abhorrent to see a dog suffer, because of our cultural bias towards dogs as pets, but then many may not know about the ways in which animal protein comes to their plate - or possibly some may even think it is ‘ok’ (given some of the posts) to allow farm animals to suffer because they are food -

To me, I believe it is making the correlation between the dogs in the video of the OP - and the animals in this video that come to our table: chooseveg.com/meet-your-meat.asp -

Peace

 

[distracted]

Are you deliberating trying to confuse the issue at hand?

Two wrongs do not make one right. People who care about animals are not necessarily pro abortion. God loves and cares about his animals. He made them.

the time you spend on loving animals is time that could be spent trying to save humans…

unless you are omnipotent and can do everything you want instantly or something…