Dog Meat

[CGDouglas]

Marfran:

He was definitely a vegetarian for at least a portion of his life.

What evidence can we base this off?

Marfran:

As a compromise, although he preferred his monks to be vegetarian, he permitted them to accept any foods offered them, even if such foods were non-vegetarian.

Again, what evidence?

If these are the author’s own presumptions, this does not count as evidence, just pure speculation.

What we do know is that Saint Francis allowed double rations of meat for the friars if Christmas were to be on a Friday.

Marfran:

Arguing whether or not St. Francis was a vegetarian for his entire life has no bearing on the weight of understanding this tenet, and the morality of eschewing meat.

If Saint Francis loved animals, and did not condemn the eating of meat, then we can understand that he himself may have had no personal qualms with eating such.

Don’t you find it odd that we can easily find that Saint Augustine was a vegetarian, but when it comes to a person who has a large respect for animals, we have a hard time determining such?

God Bless.

Chris.

 

[distracted]

I absolutely agree. It is *counter cultural *for someone to choose not to support animal abuse, and to purposefully choose products than do not contain ingredients from the “animal” industies. It is inconvenient and does take effort. If you walk into a “regular” grocery store and start reading labels you will soon discover that many items that appear to be vegetarian, are in fact not. It takes great personal effort, changing one’s way of cooking and shopping, and taking some time to learn. In other words, it requires personal change.

Ironically (or not so ironically), you can also became aware of how the products that you purchase support abortion causes. This also requires effort and personal change. Participating on many threads here, I have encountered many people who spout off about the wrong of abortion, yet make no ***personal sacrifice ***to combat this sin.

For example, there were some issues a while back about the Girl Scout organization having a relationship with the Planned Parenthood Assn. who supports abortion. In my parish, everyone ignored this, and kept on buying the cookies.

EXCELLENT post!!

Thank you so much… i didn’t know that the Girl Scouts supported PP… NOw that i know i plan on telling everyone who will listen - and even those who won’t…

Catholics these days (some) are pathetical…

 

[distracted]

I did answer it for you. You are comparing animals to humans. From your perspective (or so it seems) humans and animals are not comparable. So because an animal eats meat it means a human should. If you are going with this logic then you would have to say animals are equal to humans. .

this is illogical…

just because humans have an animal -like body doesn’t mean we are equal to animals…

 

[severus68]

This still does not change the fact that Christ himself ate meat.

The Lamb is also a fulfillment of the Jewish sacrifices, in which God wanted the sacrifice of animals, even in Egypt to place the blood upon the doorposts. The Passover foreshadows Christ.

God Bless.

Chris.

I would really like to know where in the Gospels it is said that Christ ate meat and fish. I know he multiplied the loaves and the fish.

God’s world is not the world we live in today. When God created the world there was no killing and no eating of flesh. There are references even in the OT to sacrifice of self rather than animals. Christ was the supreme sacrifice for us.

 

[Marfran]

What evidence can we base this off?

Again, what evidence?

If these are the author’s own presumptions, this does not count as evidence, just pure speculation.

Please SEE ***Vegetarian Christian Saints ***by Dr. Holly Roberts. It is well documented with an extensive appendix. I think it will answer your questions and lead you to many other resources/writings as well. I take it that it is a topic that interests you.

**“If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.” **Saint Francis of Assisi

 

[distracted]

"Saint Francis loved all God’s creatures and showed unselfish love to birds, beasts, and all created things. He felt a spiritual communion with all facets of nature, no matter how small or outwardly insignificant. Existing in his state of universal love and understanding, he felt such tender concern for all God’s creatures that he freed rabbits caught in traps, paid to free sheep being led to slaughter, and threw fish back into the water.
]

uh…

there ARE other saints you know… those who had little or nothing to do with animals one way or the other… In fact, St. F is the only one i can think of who liked to be out in nature with animals…

i aspire to sainthood and i do NOT want animals near me…

well, there go my chances at sainthood!!!

however, i notice that many people seem to like to make road kill… i see many animals dead on the road when i travel and i know darn good and well they are not ALL the victims of accidents… I know this because i have lived in the same area for years and have NEVER even accidentally hit an animal… OK… one time i may have accidentally hit a frog that leaped out in front of the car… I’m not sure if i hit it or not…

Oops… there go my chances of sainthood again…

anyhow… i think it is abominable to kill an animal for no good reason… (food).

but i am not going to worship animals and put them on the same level - no higher - than humans…

and you vegans seem to do this… You frankly seem to be misanthropes in fact… like you hate poeple but love animals…

ok, i can halfway relate… animals don’t do evil against you

but that is just because they are too dumb to know there is such a thing as evil…

if you want to be around dumb creatures all the time… that’s your choice.

i prefer having intelligent conversations … etc … etc…

 

[distracted]

I would really like to know where in the Gospels it is said that Christ ate meat and fish. I know he multiplied the loaves and the fish.

God’s world is not the world we live in today. When God created the world there was no killing and no eating of flesh. There are references even in the OT to sacrifice of self rather than animals. Christ was the supreme sacrifice for us.

you don’t know the bible very well. God was always telling the Hebrews to sacrifice animals…

and then there’s the Passover… Lamb…

that’s an animal isn’t it??

 

[distracted]

First off, I’m a she not a he. And no, I would starve. I rescue pigs. Farm pigs. If I was in the position of the people from say the survivor movie, would I starve or eat other humans, I would starve. I don’t go wishy washy and change my views so it can benefit me. I’m fully ok with passing to the other side. I don’t fear it. And if God were to put me in the situation where I would starve, then I would starve. Although I don’t believe God would do that.

tell me that after you have been starving for 10 days…

 

[distracted]

I do like how so many speak on behalf of God. Hopefully we** will** see God one day and all will be revealed.

right… only vegans can speak for God…

oh please…

when you want to invoke God you use poeple like St Francis…

when you want to make the case for veganism… you totally ignore such things as Hebrews sacrificing animals and the Passover Lamb…

seems you just use God

 

[distracted]

I take it you’ve never visited a cattle slaughtering house. Many who do become instant, albeit temporary, vegitarians.

Peace,
O’Malley

probably most people visiting such a place were doing so because they were considering veganism anyhow…hence the visit… so of course they are going to become what they set out to become…

by the way, I set out to become what Jesus wants/requires me to become…

… Jesus ate meat (sorry to repeat this so many times but apparently nobody is listening… Probably more to the point to say they dont care but whatever…)

 

[severus68]

you don’t know the bible very well. God was always telling the Hebrews to sacrifice animals…

and then there’s the Passover… Lamb…

that’s an animal isn’t it??

Thank you for your enlightenment. God told people a lot of things.

 

[severus68]

right… only vegans can speak for God…

oh please…

when you want to invoke God you use poeple like St Francis…

when you want to make the case for veganism… you totally ignore such things as Hebrews sacrificing animals and the Passover Lamb…

seems you just use God

Really? Since when? I am not a vegan by the way, not yet.

No one is ignoring what is in the OT or elsewhere in the bible. Are you ignoring God’s plan for this world at the beginning? Vegans are just following what God said was to be in Eden.

How am I using God?

I must thank you. Its people like you who have convinced me I have made the right choice in not eating meat. God bless.

 

[severus68]

probably most people visiting such a place were doing so because they were considering veganism anyhow…hence the visit… so of course they are going to become what they set out to become…

by the way, I set out to become what Jesus wants/requires me to become…

… Jesus ate meat (sorry to repeat this so many times but apparently nobody is listening… Probably more to the point to say they dont care but whatever…)/QUOTE

Really, maybe you should avoid threads like this one. The discussions are obviously distressing you.

It is not that people do not care, we do.

 

[CGDouglas]

I would really like to know where in the Gospels it is said that Christ ate meat and fish. I know he multiplied the loaves and the fish.

God’s world is not the world we live in today. When God created the world there was no killing and no eating of flesh. There are references even in the OT to sacrifice of self rather than animals. Christ was the supreme sacrifice for us.

Christ kept the passover.

Luk 2:39 When Joseph and Mary had finished doing all that was required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to their hometown of Nazareth in Galilee.

Luk 2:41 Every year the parents of Jesus went to Jerusalem for the Passover Festival.
Luk 2:42 When Jesus was twelve years old, they went to the festival as usual.

God Bless.

Chris.

 

[CGDouglas]

Please SEE ***Vegetarian Christian Saints ***by Dr. Holly Roberts. It is well documented with an extensive appendix. I think it will answer your questions and lead you to many other resources/writings as well. I take it that it is a topic that interests you.

**“If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.” **Saint Francis of Assisi

I’d rather see the very sources, where the author got these apparent ‘facts’ from.

Just because Saint Francis had compassion did not mean it forbade him of eating of meat.

God Bless.

Chris.

 

[Newbie2]

Jesus is the ultimate example. The **Lamb **of God. Sacrificed, brutalized, tortured, suffered, for our sins. In death and suffering Jesus is referred to as a lamb, an innocent creature that suffers because of us. Why is the image of the lamb chosen for this??? Why not a human being???

You’re deflecting the question; if Jesus ate lamb and fish, why shouldn’t we? And why should we limit ourselves to just those two “meat” animals?

 

[pnewton]

Thank you for the quotes. They are what Christ taught. However how do they explain what you said.

They demonstrate that the way we treat our fellow human beings affects God directly and can result in eternal damnation. This is because Man can partake in the divine nature of God. Thus, animals can never be a suitable partner for Man. (CCC 317). One ahould not give animals the affection that is only do to people (CCC 2418).

I answered your questions so it is my turn to ask. Where in the Bible or in Church teaching do you find mistreatment of animals and of humans to be “all the same?” Can you show anywhere in Scripture where people are damned to Hell for bieng uncharitable to animals, as they are for being uncharitable to people?

 

[pnewton]

And Jeffrey Dahmer was a carnivore.

Funny! Illogical, but funny!

I am surprised you didn’t bring up Godwin’s Law.

 

[Tamsulosin]

I find myself agreeing with Marfran 100%.
One thing though, I do not have any problems in eating eggs, for no suffering of animals is involved.
About diary products,(I love them)but I do not know if animals are made to suffer when
extracting the milk.
Perhaps somebody knows .
Tam

 

[Ione]

Thus, animals can never be a suitable partner for Man. (CCC 317). One ahould not give animals the affection that is only do to people (CCC 2418).

Sorry I don’t know the bible as well as I would like to but this almost sounds as if it means in a sexual sense “suitable partner for Man”. “One should not give animals the affection that is only do to people”. In other words, no beastiality. That’s just my interpretation from what is there.