Dogma of the Earth as center of the universe

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Slayer said:
I have not read those books yet, and I am not knowledgeable on the subject enough nor am I qualified to write a paper for it. If anyone were to do it, then I think Robert A. Sungenis would fit the bill. I believe he even wrote a thesis on Geocentrism while he was attending university. Not to mention those two books he wrote…
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If Sungenis is correct that the entire universe revolves around a planet 8,000 miles in diameter, the Holy Spirit will lead humans to recognize that truth, probably some time in 2009. If he is not correct, the Holy Spirit will not bother.

StAnastasia
 
StAnastasia said:
If Sungenis is correct that the entire universe revolves around a planet 8,000 miles in diameter, the Holy Spirit will lead humans to recognize that truth, probably some time in 2009. If he is not correct, the Holy Spirit will not bother.

StAnastasia
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Why in 2009?
 
The physical center of the universe is of little consequence; but the spiritual center - …
I like what Pope Benedict XVI had to say:
(Quote taken from 10/8/08 L’Osservatore Romano - Pope’s 10/6/08 meditation on LOH given to members of the Synod on Scripture.)"…The history of salvation is not a small event, on a poor planet, in the immensity of the universe. It is not a minimal thing which happens by chance on a lost planet. It is the motive for everything, the motive for creation. Everything is created so that this story can exist, the encounter between God and His creature."
And that “encounter” took place on the planet earth, which IMO makes earth THE spiritual center.
 
Nita said:
The physical center of the universe is of little consequence; but the spiritual center - …
I like what Pope Benedict XVI had to say:
(Quote taken from 10/8/08 L’Osservatore Romano - Pope’s 10/6/08 meditation on LOH given to members of the Synod on Scripture.)"…The history of salvation is not a small event, on a poor planet, in the immensity of the universe. It is not a minimal thing which happens by chance on a lost planet. It is the motive for everything, the motive for creation. Everything is created so that this story can exist, the encounter between God and His creature."
And that “encounter” took place on the planet earth, which IMO makes earth THE spiritual center.
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Well, there are 300 billion galaxies, with 100 billion stars apiece, so that’s a bit of a stretch. But Benedict is no astronomer…
 
PerryJ said:
What occured was Copernicus was a low level cleric. His theory was fully accepted by the Pope as a theory. During this time the Church actively pursued science. In fact Churches were used to study the universe prior to telescopes becoming more advanced. (They would track sunlight etc through the dome of the Church.) The Pope warmly welcomed Galileo to meet with him. They became friends and the Pope supported him. Galileo urged the Pope to pronounce his theory to be law and change the wording of the Bible. The Pope refused. Their friendship became strained as Galileo continued to push the issue. Galileo published a play about the subject. One of the lead characters was called Simplico. Simplico rejected Galileo’s theory in the play. Many thought that he was accusing the Pope of being a simpleton. In this era it was a common method to attack a person of note. The Pope became angry with Galelio and put him in the care of the Medici family. The Medici family was one of the richest and most powerful families at the time. Him being with the Medici’s was certainly not a hardship. Galileo could continue his work in other areas. He in fact published several more theories before his death. It should be noted that Galileo’s theory was proven wrong by Kepler within his own lifetime. The Pope never rejected heliocentrism. (He rejected stating that it should be a law and the Bible should be changed to fit this theory.) In fact it was embraced when Copernicus and Kepler published their versions. It was also embraced when Galileo first published his version of it. It was Galileo’s attacks against the Pope and his desire to change the Bible that caused the problem. It should be noted that two of Galileo’s daughters became nuns. One left with a mental inllness. The other remained a nun her whole life.

The Galileo affair is just one big myth. The Pope fully supported science. He did not feel it was for him to judge scientific theories. Many sciences were started by the Church during this time. In fact the Church started the University system. The diplomas were even signed by the Pope. The Catholic Church via science was one of the major reasons why the dark ages ended.
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Yes, the Galileo affair is one big myth, so often used incorrectly. Some Protestants even say Galileo was excommunicated. No, Galileo was a faithful Catholic all his life. And if Galileo would have had a few more people skills, he would have saved himself a lot of grief. But he had a caustic personality and ready wit and didn’t suffer fools gladly; he would not admit that he could ever be wrong.

The pope and Galileo had been friends from way back, before he became pope, and they liked to discuss philosophical and scientific topics together. But then Galileo stabbed him in the back by putting his words into the mouth of Simplicio. And in this case Galileo was wrong! He thought the cause of the tides was the movement of the earth, making the ocean to slosh back and forth!

Did the Protestand Reformers of the day approve of Galileo? No, they probably wouldn’t have put him under house arrest and given him a pension, but would have burnt him at the stake.
 
Nita said:
I don’t understand – what’s a bit of a stretch?
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It’s ridiculous to claim that one one little planet around one star out of 30\22 stars (300 billion galaxies averaging 100 billion stars each) is the “moral center” of the universe. Sure, it’s all-important to us, but it’s not the center of the universe, physically, morally, or spiritually.

StAnastasia
 
mackbrislawn said:
Did the Protestand Reformers of the day approve of Galileo? No, they probably wouldn’t have put him under house arrest and given him a pension, but would have burnt him at the stake.
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Do you have any evidence to support this claim? The Reformers were all dead by the time of Galileo’s trial.
 
StAnastasia said:
It’s ridiculous to claim that one one little planet around one star out of 30\22 stars (300 billion galaxies averaging 100 billion stars each) is the “moral center” of the universe. Sure, it’s all-important to us, but it’s not the center of the universe, physically, morally, or spiritually.

StAnastasia
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Do you then believe that there are other planets where God has also become incarnate and dwelt on?
If so, on what do you base such a claim?
If not, then how can any material place other than earth (where God Himself dwelt in physical form and continues to dwell physically in the Eucharist) be considered a greater moral or spiritual center of the material universe?
(I was not claiming earth was the physical center of the universe. Neither was the pope. My understanding is that nobody has any idea where it is.)

Nita
 
Nita said:
Do you then believe that there are other planets where God has also become incarnate and dwelt on?
If so, on what do you base such a claim?
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Yes, I believe God’s love overflows everywhere possible in the universe, and that life has evolved countless times. Since life evolves on finite planets, there will always be a competition for resources, and hence, when rational beings evolve, they will evolve into consciousness of their sin. The need for salvation is universal, not limited to terrestrial species.

StAnastasia
 
StAnastasia said:
Yes, I believe God’s love overflows everywhere possible in the universe, and that life has evolved countless times. Since life evolves on finite planets, there will always be a competition for resources, and hence, when rational beings evolve, they will evolve into consciousness of their sin. The need for salvation is universal, not limited to terrestrial species.

StAnastasia
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By God’s law, the **wages **of sin is death (Ro 6:23).

And from Gal 3:13,
Christ hath **redeemed **us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree

The second person of the Trinity’s atoning death happened once
Ro 6:10 “For in that he (Jesus) died, he died unto sin once.”
1 Peter 3:18 “For Christ also hath **once **suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”
Hebrews 10:10 “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ **once **for all.”

The second person of the Trinity became incarnate and later died a sin-atoning death **once **in a material human form here on earth ~30ad hanging from a cross. Other creatures ‘out there’ if they sin will receive the wages of sin namely death (unless these creatures don’t decay and die), and they will need a savior to atone for their sin and save them from Hell. Here’s the problem: a human, earthly Jesus **already **died, experienced the suffering of death, and gained *victory over death *by His resurrection from the dead. How and why, in God’s perfect economy, would this happen even a second time for some kind of intelligent critter in say the Andromeda galaxy so that it too can be loosed from death and inherit eternal life? IMO the salvic, sin-atoning death of the second person of the Trinity is a **once **and for all event that happened on earth, making earth a spiritually central place w.r.t. salvation. Again IMO, I don’t doubt that the effects of this victory over death could extend out into the cosmos and save other creatures from the fires of Hell…how?..I dunno:shrug:
 
StAnastasia said:
It’s ridiculous to claim that one one little planet around one star out of 30\22 stars (300 billion galaxies averaging 100 billion stars each) is the “moral center” of the universe. Sure, it’s all-important to us, but it’s not the center of the universe, physically, morally, or spiritually.

StAnastasia
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Is this an argument from incredulity?
 
Henning said:
The second person of the Trinity became incarnate and later died a sin-atoning death **once **in a material human form here on earth ~30ad hanging from a cross. Other creatures ‘out there’ if they sin will receive the wages of sin namely death (unless these creatures don’t decay and die), and they will need a savior to atone for their sin and save them from Hell.
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Of course. All organic beings who evolve into rationality – humans, Andromedans, and those in countless other galaxies – will evolve into consciousness of sin and death. All stand in need of “salvation.” God being omnipotent, there is no reason God cannot become incarnate elsewhere in the universe, and accomplish the work of atonement there as well.

StAnastasia
 
StAnastasia said:
Well, there are 300 billion galaxies, with 100 billion stars apiece, so that’s a bit of a stretch. But Benedict is no astronomer…
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*Colossians 1:15-16 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities – **all things **were created through him and for him. *

St. Paul is speaking here of Jesus, the God-man, who was conceived, born, lived, died, and rose from the dead only here on the small planet earth. “All things” (all those billions of stars and galaxies) were created for Him, Jesus.
 
Nita said:
*Colossians 1:15-16 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities – **all things ***were created through him and for him.

St. Paul is speaking here of Jesus, the God-man, who was conceived, born, lived, died, and rose from the dead only here on the small planet earth. “All things” (all those billions of stars and galaxies) were created for Him, Jesus.
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Paul was ignorant of what we now know through astronomy. He did not know about galaxies, or the vastness of the universe. You must read scripture in light of its cultural context.
 
StAnastasia said:
Paul was ignorant of what we now know through astronomy. He did not know about galaxies, or the vastness of the universe. You must read scripture in light of its cultural context.
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Scipture is protected by the Holy Spirit. We must be careful that we do not pidgeon hole it.
 
StAnastasia said:
Do you have any evidence to support this claim? The Reformers were all dead by the time of Galileo’s trial.
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It’s a matter of probabillity…what do you think? Why should they be more liberal in this matter that the Church? Most likely less so. But it isn’t my idea, I did read it from some source.

It’s a matter for thought so that non-Catholics don’t get on a high horse about the Galileo affair–are their noses any cleaner?

I said the Protestant Reformers of that time, not the Reformers of Luther and Calvin’s day. There are Reformers of today, too…that’s the trouble with the Reformation, it just keeps reforming, and reformning…following a reductionist path until there is nothing left, and shown by today’s liberal modernists.
 
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