Dogs vs. Babies

[RhyannaRose]

<<<I wish the mass media covered baby killing the same way it covers animal cruelty but it doesn’t and it will not.>>>

In my lifetime, I can only think of one show on the evils of abortion, and I was young enough that mother sent me outside to play so obviously it’s been at least two decades. My mother often speaks of that show, an episode of Phil Donahue, where they show the babies still moving in the bags that were thrown away after the procedure. And this was back in the early to mid 80’s, so this was before the partial abortion ban. These babies were murdered, but first put through horrible suffering.

 

[threadkiller]

I’ve been involved with animal rescue for eight years and I currently have four dogs and four cats, all rescues, in my home. I am also very pro-life. In God’s great design of the human mind, He gave us the capacity to be passionate about several “causes” at a time. My heart can bleed for unborn baby and abused puppy alike without conflict.

Great point! I think that’s called being Catholic.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

<<<Quote:
Originally Posted by RhyannaRose

If a person can harm a dog, it’s only a matter of time before they start harming humans. Torturing animals is moral depravity as well, and I wish the justice system would realize the link between serial killers and animal abusers and give more fitting punishments. I would suggest a prision term of no less then five years as the minium, and not allow parole or probation to be options. God put us above the animals, but He also gave us certain animals like cats and dogs to be our companions, which means we obligated to treat them with compassion and kindness.

And yes, there’s a difference. But I was trying to say that we can focus on more then one cause. I can be stauncely pro-life and also volunteer for animal rescue, as I have done for eight years now. Does that make more sense?

I was jumping to conclusions a little bit. I’m sorry. I fear the posts with the extremist view that some people seem to have. The ones that view humans and animals on the same plane.

 

[franksv]

The whole animal rights crowd really left a bad impression on me back in 99.

Now, I have always had dogs and still do. I am the type of owner that gives my dogs some of my time daily, take them with when I can and allow them to have a place in the family.

I had a german shepherd that was 7 when my first child was born. Raised him from a puppy. During my wifes pregnency he got weird. He would go after her tummy, started eating his poop and killing small animals in the yard.

And yes, he had 2 years of obdience training, was walked everyday on top of 10-30 minutes of fetch most nights. He was also taken with on many weekend hiking, camping & fishing outings. He had a lot of time and human contact.

When my new born came home, we where careful. Despite the new addition he was walked and not ignored.

The second day home I had my baby in one arm and started to crouch down so he could meet her. Well, he went after her and it was a lucky thing I was the one who attempted the intro, cuz he never had a chance with me vs the wife.

At that point he was gone, no second chances. When we tried to find a shelter, every one of the rescue places said they would not take a “throw away”. Despite the fact that he tried to attack my baby. They all judged us as if we where somehow bad people for not wanting this powerful animal around our baby that had tried to get her once and was showing strange signs of behavior.

The 2 vets I contacted(including our own) refused to put him sleep. All the pro animal folks could care less about the little human being in our home and all seemed more concerned with the friggin animal.

I called my older cousin who has a farm and we agreed to take care of the dog out there. I was gonna shoot the dog in the back of the head and bury him out there. Not my first choice, but the dog could not and would not stay in our home and we where getting zero help trying to preserve his life. This decision was arrived at after days of trying to find a rescue to no avail. I could not take a chance with my little girls saftey or even a minor attack that could scar her. She is a child, he was a dog.

I finally got in touch with my vet one last time and told him if he did’nt put the dog to sleep, what plan B was going to be. It was almost a week after he went after my baby that he was put to sleep. In that time he stayed in either one of 2 places, his crate indoors or out in the yard.

It still breaks my hart to think back to my gsd thunder, but I would do the same to either of my current dogs did the same. Don’t get me wrong, I am well aware that kids need to taught how to treat a dog and that there is a difference between an attack and a nip. My kids love and play with my border collies a lot and have been nipped, but its not the same as what my gsd tried to do. I know the difference. If you play fetch with my borders, your hand is gonna get tagged.

For a while I did’nt ever want dogs again. We also had a golden retriever at the time we put the gsd down. If it was’nt for that dog, I may not have stayed a dog person. That golden and my borders have restored my love & trust in dogs and I can relate to both sides. The fact of the matter is an animal should never be put above or equal to a human being. They are great companions, but are still animals.

 

[Biblioassistant]

People who are cruel to animals will be cruel to people. Pets depend on us to be kind and to take care of them - so do babies, people with severe disabilities and frail elderly. My heart aches for people who are treated cruelly and for animals who are treated cruelly too. I see no problem with that.

 

[BlestOne]

Actually the part that bugged me about him was all the media attention is equal to if not more than the sports figures that have raped, sodomized or murdered people. I love animals to death, but I am sorry, crimes against humans are just more heinous!

Don’t even call me an animal hater… I have always had animals in my house that we treat like family members, but if I had to choose between the animal or my kids… sorry animal!

 

[Sheeniac]

The whole animal rights crowd really left a bad impression on me back in 99.

Please realize that there’s a huge difference between those of us who work for animal welfare vs. animal rights.

That said, you did the right thing. I’m surprised that the vets and locale humane societies didn’t suggest putting him down once you cited the aggressiveness of the dog. I can’t speak for the rescues.

As another poster mentioned, since the secular media sees abortion as a woman’s right, they’ll never get outraged about it. But nearly everyone is outraged about cruelty to animals. Look at the ensuing uproar about Chinese food imports - the issue has always been there, but once you harm our pets, it’s a big deal.

 

[franksv]

Please realize that there’s a huge difference between those of us who work for animal welfare vs. animal rights.

That said, you did the right thing. I’m surprised that the vets and locale humane societies didn’t suggest putting him down once you cited the aggressiveness of the dog. I can’t speak for the rescues.

Thank You, when the story comes up around folks I call “dog freaks” I usually get static. But, I am the steward of three of the Lord’s children, even though I am their earthly father, they belong to God. It’s my job to keep them safe physically, mentally & spritually.

After telling the vets & rescues the story. All of them where only interested in getting me in touch with dog trainers. Did’nt matter that I had always done obdience classes for the first year or two with every dog I have owned and knew a thing or two already. In fact, most folks who meet my dogs both past & present usually are impressed with them.

I always get the same questions.

How do you train them to listen so well off leash?
How come your dogs don’t run away?
How do you get your dogs to focus on you like that?
How did you teach them to to fetch so well?
etc etc.

I am a dog guy through and through who does’nt care about entering trails & winning titles. They are companions,exercise partners & outdoor partners but my wife, kids and people come first.

 

[rpp]

And along the same lines…

cnn.com/2007/US/07/28/sea.lion.stabbing.ap/index.html

Fisherman arrested in stabbing of bait-stealing sea lion
NEWPORT BEACH, California (AP) – A fisherman accused of stabbing a sea lion with a steak knife after the animal stole his bait has been arrested.

The sea lion, a six-foot female weighing about 150 pounds, was stabbed in the heart and was euthanized, said Dean Gomersall, animal care supervisor at the Pacific Marine Mammal Center in Laguna Beach.

“It’s a horrible thing,” Gomersall said. “My crew is extremely upset, and we’re just glad the person was caught.”

{snip}

Nguyen could face a $25,000 fine and up to a year in prison if convicted on the animal cruelty charge. A conviction on federal charges of violating the Marine Mammal Protection Act could add $12,000 in civil penalties, criminal fines of up to $20,000 and additional jail time, authorities said.

 

[Zooey]

<<<Quote:
Originally Posted by RhyannaRose
My heart can bleed for unborn baby and abused puppy alike without conflict.

As if the are in the same realm?!

Abortion is a higher level of moral deprivaty for a human being. Christ’s Church views people involved in abortion as outside the Church. It views people who abuse animals as in need of repentance.

There is a difference. >>>

If a person can harm a dog, it’s only a matter of time before they start harming humans. Torturing animals is moral depravity as well, and I wish the justice system would realize the link between serial killers and animal abusers and give more fitting punishments. I would suggest a prision term of no less then five years as the minium, and not allow parole or probation to be options. God put us above the animals, but He also gave us certain animals like cats and dogs to be our companions, which means we obligated to treat them with compassion and kindness.

And yes, there’s a difference. But I was trying to say that we can focus on more then one cause. I can be stauncely pro-life and also volunteer for animal rescue, as I have done for eight years now. Does that make more sense?

People who are cruel to animals will be cruel to people. Pets depend on us to be kind and to take care of them - so do babies, people with severe disabilities and frail elderly. My heart aches for people who are treated cruelly and for animals who are treated cruelly too. I see no problem with that.

This connection is often missed…Yet, it is a fact that the 2 things are related to one another.
I speak as one, who when I was caring for my elderly & ailing mother until her death in 2000, was told by more than one person to “just let her die, she’s not worth anything”, “people should be put down like old dogs once they turn 65”, and “you’re stupid, you make too much of a fuss over a stupid cat”…All by the same person.
He was the EMT responding to ambulance calls. He hated old people, & he was also furious when I insisted on confining pets to another room, when his crew was carrying Mama in & out…while she begged, “Please take care of her, don’t let her get hurt! I love her so!”, because she was worrying about her kitty.

I am NOT putting animals above people. I am saying that God will judge us for how we treat helpless animals, as well as for how we treat our fellow human beings.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

The real problem is that animals have been raised to such a high status that it was only a matter of time before “animal rights” trump human rights and dignity. Notice how dogs are most often referred to as “he” or “she” rather than “it”.

The amount of time and money spent on pets now days is simply insane, especially when people have families to take care of. I have heard people spend hundreds on their pets for various “medical treatments” and vaccines…what about feeding a person (especially family)?

And dont get me started on pit bulls, every few months on the news I hear how one of those “usually sweet, I dont know what got into him” little good for nothings has killed a little child. And no matter how often this happens it is like its no big deal.

Im not a pet hater, but I do realize that pets belong in certain environments (farm) and in their proper place (outside, eat scraps).

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

The real problem is that animals have been raised to such a high status that it was only a matter of time before “animal rights” trump human rights and dignity. Notice how dogs are most often referred to as “he” or “she” rather than “it”.

I won’t even bother answering the rest of your post; I think I’d be wasting my time, but why shouldn’t we refer to animals as “he” or “she”? They do come in male and female, just like people.

 

[system]

The real problem is that animals have been raised to such a high status that it was only a matter of time before “animal rights” trump human rights and dignity. Notice how dogs are most often referred to as “he” or “she” rather than “it”.

The amount of time and money spent on pets now days is simply insane, especially when people have families to take care of. I have heard people spend hundreds on their pets for various “medical treatments” and vaccines…what about feeding a person (especially family)?

And dont get me started on pit bulls, every few months on the news I hear how one of those “usually sweet, I dont know what got into him” little good for nothings has killed a little child. And no matter how often this happens it is like its no big deal.

Im not a pet hater, but I do realize that pets belong in certain environments (farm) and in their proper place (outside, eat scraps).

I agree; and I agree with the man that had to do away with the dog who was a threat to his children. BTW, I’m a pet owner that took in two dogs from rescues and took care of them and taught my children to do so also.

To me the answer is simple, from day one, mankind was God’s greatest creation. We always were, we always will be. And fom day one, there was the fallen angel who revolted (with his legion) and who has spent all of his time since, confusing, lying, and generally messing with us humans. I’m sure it as a great thrill to him to see animals - lovable creatures wihtout souls, to be valued more than us humans with immortal souls.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

To me the answer is simple, from day one, mankind was God’s greatest creation. We always were, we always will be. And fom day one, there was the fallen angel who revolted (with his legion) and who has spent all of his time since, confusing, lying, and generally messing with us humans. I’m sure it as a great thrill to him to see animals - lovable creatures wihtout souls, to be valued more than us humans with immortal souls.

I will wait for someone more articulate and better with words than I am to point out how utterly ludicrous it is to assume there is anything evil or satanic in caring for all of God’s creation (and to point out the false dichotomy that says you can only care for one or the other).

“If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.” – St. Francis of Assisi

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” – Mahatma Gandhi

“I love St. Francis of Assisi because he had a great love for animals. He used to talk with them and play with them—and scold them if they did harm to anybody. I love animals, too. Animals are such simple creations of God’s beauty.” – Mother Teresa of Calcutta

The three people whose quotes appear above were not exactly famous for failing to love humanity.

 

[mary_bobo]

I won’t even bother answering the rest of your post; I think I’d be wasting my time, but why shouldn’t we refer to animals as “he” or “she”? They do come in male and female, just like people.

I almost started to answer that post, but I do not want to be removed from the forum. It is hard to understand this kind of logic.

 

[system]

I will wait for someone more articulate and better with words than I am to point out how utterly ludicrous it is to assume there is anything evil or satanic in caring for all of God’s creation (and to point out the false dichotomy that says you can only care for one or the other).

No! No! No! -

I never said anything is satanic about caring for animals.

This thread is about how the media portrays the situation.

from the original post:

Are dogs or animals in general now more important than people? I guess it is if you were to view these TV shows.

If you read my post, you would know that I DO love and care for animals and have rescued them from mistreatment.

 

[system]

I almost started to answer that post, but I do not want to be removed from the forum. It is hard to understand this kind of logic.

Make my day - send it privately. I won’t report you.

Just re-read my post first

 

[system]

I agree; and I agree with the man that had to do away with the dog who was a threat to his children. BTW, I’m a pet owner that took in two dogs from rescues and took care of them and taught my children to do so also.

To me the answer is simple, from day one, mankind was God’s greatest creation. We always were, we always will be. And fom day one, there was the fallen angel who revolted (with his legion) and who has spent all of his time since, confusing, lying, and generally messing with us humans. I’m sure it as a great thrill to him to see animals - lovable creatures wihtout souls, to be valued more than us humans with immortal souls.

Please show me where this post goes against:

• Catholic teaching
• St Francis
• Ghandi

I think you have misunderstood my post

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

No! No! No! -

I never said anything is satanic about caring for animals.

This thread is about how the media portrays the situation.

from the original post:

If you read my post, you would know that I DO love and care for animals and have rescued them from mistreatment.

My apologies if I misunderstood, but the post where you mentioned the fallen angel didn’t say anything about the media.

Yes, it is possible to go overboard – I just read a magazine article which mentioned these implants you can get for your male pet to replace a certain portion of his anatomy he loses when he gets neutered (as if he even cares that it is missing) – now, if I had an extra $900 lying around, you can bet I would feed hungry people with it before I would get those implants for my (neutered) male cat! I’m not going to buy an expensive, fancy bed for my cats (they’d rather sleep in mine, anyway), nor will I buy them little clothes (God gave them perfectly good fur coats) or jewelry (cats don’t care about bling, and neither do I).

I do pay for medicine and special food, because one of my cats has a chronic illness. Does that mean I don’t do what I can to help people in need? Not at all. I don’t think the devil is getting any great thrill out of how I treat my cats.

 

[system]

My apologies if I misunderstood, but the post where you mentioned the fallen angel didn’t say anything about the media.

Sorry about that. It all made sense in my head

Unfortunately, (or fortunately, I guess) I’m constantly watching the media from as many angles as I can …trying to see the messages that are thrown at my children. For instance it seems at least 90% of all sitcoms have a dad that is either an idiot, or missing. And I talk to my kids about that.

I do see the media go gaga over some animal situations, and it does seem they choose that over some human stories. And I wonder why say, the beached whale story (for example) gets more press than old man who died alone in the heat wave. (for example)

In fact - I probably didn’t communicate it very well, but I’m not even saying that satan is orchestrating this at all. It could all be us 100% we foolish humans. But I did mean it when I said, he/she/it must be enjoying it.

I may sound old fashioned or superstitious or even CATHOLIC! but I do believe the Catholic teachings on Satan.