Domestic violence victim fired from Catholic school

[Fairwinds]

The man has a 20 year history of escalating violence including to a former wife…no-one gets in his way …

I don’t see how any school could reasonably employ someone in these apparent circumstances where he has already been to the school
A clerical position in a secure office building yes but with small children around no way
She really needs to be where he cannot find her

then the dioceses shouldn’t have hired her in the first place. – what was it thinking? now its getting a public black eye for effectively trashing a victim of domestic violence.

 

[EdmundPaul]

Well the diocese didn’t know much before the parking lot incident did it?
I see the victim is talking about going back to school and doing nursing
I think the diocese might have offered her a non-teaching position somewhere else but a career change seems like making the best of a bad situation
maybe they thought with 7 months paid leave she would have had time to consider other employment options as returning to where he knew he could find her was an unacceptable risk to the school

another opinion here
kogo.com/pages/ladonaharvey.html

 

[Fairwinds]

Well the diocese didn’t know much before the parking lot incident did it?
I see the victim is talking about going back to school and doing nursing
I think the diocese might have offered her a non-teaching position somewhere else but a career change seems like making the best of a bad situation
maybe they thought with 7 months paid leave she would have had time to consider other employment options as returning to where he knew he could find her was an unacceptable risk to the school

another opinion here
kogo.com/pages/ladonaharvey.html

harvey’s article – which flat out blames the victim for the bad choice of being a victim – is another obscenity. harv’'s got her 15 minutes of fame.

the diocese can hide behind legalities - it has the right to hire or fire anyone it wants to – but the decision to effectively fire the victim of a crime stinks and the explanations are spineless.

 

[EdmundPaul]

My compassionate response would be to assist the victim and her children to move/obtain employment elsewhere
by the way why does the father even have have visitation rights ?

 

[Raskolnikov]

There was a restraining order in place, which he violated when he went to the school. He is currently serving jail time because of it, but will be released at the end of the month. From other reports, he has a 20+ year history of domestic violence and has been escalating. It appears that nothing short of long term incarcerations is going to deter him.

So what then? Give 25 years for crimes he might commit at a future date? Not exactly what I would call a just or reasonable solution. Has this man ever had counseling? Had he ever been offered counseling? Might he subjected to mandatory counseling for his failure to comply with a restraining order? I don’t see why not. In any case, considering that some organizations that inform government policy consider domestic violence to include the silent treatment or refusal to help with the dishes, I’m not about to endorse making the offense a capital crime or warranting of life in prison.

As I understand it, someone who is psychologically unwell such that they appear to be a risk to themselves or others, they can be detained to mental hospital, even while awaiting trial.

Ultimately, there may be no solution that leaves everyone completely and indefinitely protected without doing someone wrong; there may just be no way around that.

 

[markomalley]

If I was paying $6000 a year to send my kid to a Catholic school, I would expect that they would do the right thing, regardless of what some parents wanted or what the news would say about it. The only reason I would fork out that kind of money would be with the understanding that the administrators would run the school according to what is right and fair and follow the teachings of the Church. Otherwise, what is the point?

I teach in a suburban school and I can tell you firsthand that more parents complain that there isn’t enough security than those who complain about our security guards. (I’ve actually never heard any parents complain about the security guards, but I’m giving it the benefit of the doubt that someone might have a problem and just never said anything to me personally.)

First, do you teach in a public school or a private school? That is a big difference in the context.

Secondly, what would be the right thing then…choice #1, #2, or #3?

 

[JMJSHJ]

Number 1, I do not blame the woman.

Number 2. The woman is not prohibited from teaching. The woman will not be hired at any school in the Diocese of San Diego. There is a difference. She could teach in the San Diego County public schools, she could teach in a different private school, or, for that matter, she could teach in a different diocese. She has not been fired. Her contract was not renewed…and I would wager that she would get a good reference from the school (judging by the tone of the letter stating that her contract would not be renewed)

Number 3. Please quote for me EXACTLY where I have said the diocese did the right thing in any post I’ve made on this thread. To save you some time, I haven’t.

I have said that I understand why they would do such a thing. But understanding does not equate to approval.

The problem is that, while everybody is outraged at what has happened in this situation, had the teacher been hired back for next year and had her ex-husband caused another incident…this time, a little more violent, the same people who are outraged at what the school did would have been even more outraged had the ex-husband, say, caused a hostage situation…or gone postal.

And I will also guarantee that there would be a hue and cry had the school kept her on and posted full time armed security guards all around to protect against such a thing happening while allowing her to keep teaching.

In the latter, parents would have been complaining that they didn’t want their little precious Johnny or Susie to have to go to an armed fortress to school That little Johnny and Susie are being traumatized by all those big, scary security types hanging about every day.

So what’s the principal supposed to do? What’s the diocesan education office supposed to do?

Are they supposed to take choice #1, dump her, and then deal with the scorn of people who accuse them of being “un-Christian”? Not good press that way, huh?

Or are they supposed to take choice #2, keep her and ignore the situation? God help them if another, potentially much worse, situation happens in the future! Can you imagine the press coverage then (“School ignores threat of stalker…hostage situation…news at 11”)

Or are they supposed to take choice #3, keep her and make sure to have enough security around so that the ex-husband stalker wouldn’t dare show his face up there again? How, exactly, do they deal with uppity parents who don’t want Johnny and Susy to attend school in a fortress. Again, the news coverage (“Are Catholic Schools safe? Even in a posh neighborhood, they turn into an armed fortress…news at 11”)

None of the options sound very appealing to me. Yeah, I’d probably tried to find her a home in another school…but even then (“SD Diocese puts another school at risk from a violent stalker after a schoolteacher…just like with priests, they transfer the problem from parish to parish…news at 11”)

Let me ask you this: if you were a parent with a kid in that school (paying $6,000 per year for the privilege, oh by the way)…would you be OK if that threat existed? Or would you be OK with 3-4 armed security guards patrolling the school all day, every day? And, from what you know of most suburban parents with kids in a private school, do you think most of them would be OK with it?

I know you don’t approve of this situation. If you felt that I was attacking you, then I apologise.

 

[markomalley]

I know you don’t approve of this situation. If you felt that I was attacking you, then I apologise.

No problems.

But, having said that, what would you do? And wargame it out a bit…how do you think your choice would play out with parents and the media?

 

[JMJSHJ]

No problems.

But, having said that, what would you do? And wargame it out a bit…how do you think your choice would play out with parents and the media?

Get an armed guard. Legally can the guard warn him that if he sets foot upon the school’s ground he could be shot? It’s my understanding that a homeowner can do that to an intruder.

 

[markomalley]

Get an armed guard. Legally can the guard warn him that if he sets foot upon the school’s ground he could be shot? It’s my understanding that a homeowner can do that to an intruder.

Interesting story.

You know that school I mentioned up-thread?

Well, my daughter was attending that school during the time of the DC sniper (and yes, it was in the DC Metro area).

During those days, they didn’t allow the kids to use the playground. Parents complained.

The kids normally ate lunch in the parish hall in the basement of the church. Because the kids would be exposed, they no longer let the kids go to the parish hall to east hot lunch. They had to eat in the classroom (as the administration ruled it to be unsafe to allow the kids to walk exposed to the lunch room. Parents complained. They figured out how to rug some tarps up to screen the kids. Parents complained. And not a few.

They constructed a cinder block page between the two buildings…yet other parents complained (no kidding, the were a few who complained about even that). As a side nor, there were also parishioners who complained about that one.

If you’ve ever sent your kids to Catholic school, you are familiar with “car line.” They decided the usual exercise was too dangerous, at least during the sniper period, so they had parents drive up and they escorted the kids to the parent’s car, one at a time. Parents complained. And not a few of them.

The point is that your idea of a visible armed security presence, while very prudent, will be guaranteed to meet with complaints from some parents. Likely more than a few. Depending upon how affluent the area is and how great the choice of private schools is, there might be some who pull their little darlings out.

The advice is not a criticism of your plan. Just a prediction as to some of the reactions it will elicit.

 

[Dawnia]

So what then? Give 25 years for crimes he might commit at a future date? Not exactly what I would call a just or reasonable solution. Has this man ever had counseling? Had he ever been offered counseling? Might he subjected to mandatory counseling for his failure to comply with a restraining order? I don’t see why not. In any case, considering that some organizations that inform government policy consider domestic violence to include the silent treatment or refusal to help with the dishes, I’m not about to endorse making the offense a capital crime or warranting of life in prison.

As I understand it, someone who is psychologically unwell such that they appear to be a risk to themselves or others, they can be detained to mental hospital, even while awaiting trial.

Ultimately, there may be no solution that leaves everyone completely and indefinitely protected without doing someone wrong; there may just be no way around that.

Well, arresting him, giving him a short sentence, then releasing him to stalk again doesn’t seem to be doing much good either. This isn’t a case of someone not doing the dishes. He has a long history of violence, which was enough to scare the school into dismissing not only the teacher, but the four children as well.

 

[markomalley]

Well, arresting him, giving him a short sentence, then releasing him to stalk again doesn’t seem to be doing much good either. This isn’t a case of someone not doing the dishes. He has a long history of violence, which was enough to scare the school into dismissing not only the teacher, but the four children as well.

The four children may have been given free or very, very greatly reduced tuition because their mother was a teacher there.

 

[seekerz]

I agree with those who say the woman needs to be where this man can’t find her. Could the diocese have possibly helped her to relocate (if she found that agreeable) before deciding to not renew her contract? Teaching has a long history of bad teachers being shuffled from one location to the next, so why not a harassed teacher? All the mamas and papas would have been happy to be relieved of the threat, and none of us would have been reading this story.

 

[Allegra]

First, do you teach in a public school or a private school? That is a big difference in the context.

Secondly, what would be the right thing then…choice #1, #2, or #3?

I teach in a public school, (Where we don’t have the option to throw kids out if their father is a maniac, they have a learning disability, their mother’s at work and doesn’t have time for playground duty, or other kids bully them.) I’ve already said in a previous post what I think they should have done. They should have contacted the police immediately, gone to court to file their own seperate restraining order against the man and prosecuted him seperately from his ex-wife’s case, and hired a security guard.

 

[Country_Gal]

I agree with those who say the woman needs to be where this man can’t find her. Could the diocese have possibly helped her to relocate (if she found that agreeable) before deciding to not renew her contract? Teaching has a long history of bad teachers being shuffled from one location to the next, so why not a harassed teacher? All the mamas and papas would have been happy to be relieved of the threat, and none of us would have been reading this story.

Excellent solution. Maybe you can email the school. It’d be greater if the Church could set her up with a job and apt across the country.

 

[Fairwinds]

the diocese might consider screening its parishioners and asking victims of spousal abuse to go away, something terrible could happen at Mass, or at bible study, or at RCIA, or at any parish function. is it worth the risk?

 

[markomalley]

I teach in a public school, (Where we don’t have the option to throw kids out if their father is a maniac, they have a learning disability, their mother’s at work and doesn’t have time for playground duty, or other kids bully them.) I’ve already said in a previous post what I think they should have done. They should have contacted the police immediately, gone to court to file their own seperate restraining order against the man and prosecuted him seperately from his ex-wife’s case, and hired a security guard.

And parents still pay property taxes supporting the school even if they withdraw their kids.

That is the difference.

As far as the school filling its own restraining order, that sounds great…if the court allows it. You do realize that the ex husband was already thrown in jail for this and will be released on Jun 28th?

 

[Dawnia]

I agree with those who say the woman needs to be where this man can’t find her. Could the diocese have possibly helped her to relocate (if she found that agreeable) before deciding to not renew her contract? Teaching has a long history of bad teachers being shuffled from one location to the next, so why not a harassed teacher? All the mamas and papas would have been happy to be relieved of the threat, and none of us would have been reading this story.

I think further back, someone said that the father has visitation rights with the kids. She’ll never be able to completely disappear if that is true. The crazy legal system could punish her for doing so by giving him custody of the kids.

 

[Country_Gal]

I think further back, someone said that the father has visitation rights with the kids. She’ll never be able to completely disappear if that is true. The crazy legal system could punish her for doing so by giving him custody of the kids.

That’s a travesty! A man who behaves like that should lose visitation.

 

[Dawnia]

A little good news in this case.

New Job Offer for Teacher Fired in Domestic Violence Dispute

Despite an outpouring of parents who voiced their support for the school’s decision, this anonymous school official says she’s willing to take the risk and give Charlesworth a job.

“For me I was angry at the thought that she had done nothing wrong and yet she was being hurt by that herself,” the school official said.

The woman runs a private school in the Los Angeles area and said from educator to educator it’s the least she could do.