Domestic violence victim fired from Catholic school

[jilly4ski]

All of this is an argument for Catholic school teachers to unionize.

They are already. (at least in some places)

But in a public school if she was in her first 3 years of teaching the same thing could have happened. Teachers in the public schools are put on 1 year contracts for the first 3 years of employment. So that the school can get rid of them without cause if the teacher isn’t working out or if they decide they don’t really need a new teacher. So don’t pretend unions solve all the problems (they are terrible for new employees) or this wouldn’t have happened in a public school setting.

 

[Country_Gal]

According to the quoted article, she was with district 14 year. Yes, I know all about tenure having been raised by two teachers.

Never was a fan of the teachers’ unions. Now I get it. They would have protected this woman’s job.

 

[markomalley]

All of this is an argument for Catholic school teachers to unionize.

Wargame this out a little bit.

Teachers unionize.

They get tenure.

They get pay increases.

They get health insurance that includes abortion and contraception.

Tuition goes up.

Enrollment goes down.

Holy Trinity School experiences a fiscal crisis and closes down.

All the teachers are without jobs.

But, hey, at least they’re unionized

 

[Dawnia]

If she bothered to take him to court over it she would win; he’d lose visitation rights. The family court system has little love even for non-abusive fathers, I doubt it will give an abusive one a pass. If he still has visitation rights, then it’s because she hasn’t petitioned them yet. And if he has any money she wins, he may be made to pay for her legal fees as well.

Some locations will not remove a father’s visitation if they have not been abusive to the kids. If CA is one of those states, then petitioning the court won’t do a darn bit of good.

 

[markomalley]

Some locations will not remove a father’s visitation if they have not been abusive to the kids. If CA is one of those states, then petitioning the court won’t do a darn bit of good.

And, regardless of the facts of the case, a huge amount depends upon the quality of the parties’ attorneys.

 

[JMJSHJ]

I don’t think you understand what goes into hiring a security guard. They could not just hire one guard, they would have to have a guard there for more than 8 hours a day (and overtime is too expensive so you need more than one) and depending on the size of the campus you would need more than one, depending on your area unarmed guards make 10 to $12/hr (armed guards get more) and some get benefits, and oh yeah, you have to hire your guards through a security agency, the security firm designs a security plan for your school, because people at the school do not have the expertise.

I also don’t think you understand what sort of legal liability that this school would incur if they had a credible threat, like this man and didn’t do something and there was an incident. It is called negligence. Calling the police the first time does not free you from negligence in the future.

Oh and just because people are sending their kids to private Catholic school does not mean they can afford the increase they would need to pay for a security guard, that is a terrible assumption especially since many kids at Catholic schools are there on partial scholarships, especially need based scholarships. Especially since there is a free option down the road.

I think the school had no good option. They could raise their prices and lose their students and have to close, (leaving no one with a job). They could not rehire this one teacher, a horrible choice to be sure, or they could do nothing and risk an incident, and possibly getting sued, and thus having to close. I am guessing they were given the options by their lawyer and they chose this one, which shows you how legally risky (or an impossible business feat) these other choices were.

I know of Catholic school teachers (music) who don’t know if they will get their contract re-offered, because enrollment is down so much, they don’t know if they can pay him. The Catholic school in my area, (well next to my area) is in a very nice rich suburban area, and they are closing next year, because of lack of enrollment. These are very real problems for Catholic schools, regardless of the area or how “rich” you assume people to be.

Schools that don’t have the budget to include security for the aforementioned reasons have only themselves to blame. Why? Forget all of what has happened. What is to stop another Adam Lanza? If they are worried about someone coming to the school with a gun it doesn’t have to be a teacher’s ex, it could just be anyone.

In the mean time this teacher got fired for the actions of someone else she has no control over, because of the inadequacies of the State.

It’s immoral and reprehensible.

 

[fix]

Indeed they are. I think what a lot of people are missing, is that the school and the diocese will be taken to the cleaners if they knew of a serious threat to the school and did nothing. They are liable, legally (not just morally) for the children in their care during the day.

Oh and the security guard thing would be nice, but do any of you know how expensive that is? Especially armed security guards, if that is even legal, I would not be surprised if there were some very strict regulations in CA about who can be security on schools. Would you be willing to keep your kids in a school after your tuition goes up $2000 and there is still a threat to the school and the children, of which the security guards may or may not be able to do anything about?

Like so many of these types of threads we only have the info provided from the media and a letter from the school. People only view this through one emotional lens, that of the teacher. We have no idea what other information the school has and few have mentioned the other moral obligations the school has.

The school is not some military installation that has to be defended like it is on 24 hour alert from any possible attack. The school has knowledge of a serious threat. The action needed includes removing any person that may be a target that endangers others.

 

[markomalley]

Schools that don’t have the budget to include security for the aforementioned reasons have only themselves to blame. Why? Forget all of what has happened. What is to stop another Adam Lanza? If they are worried about someone coming to the school with a gun it doesn’t have to be a teacher’s ex, it could just be anyone.

In the mean time this teacher got fired for the actions of someone else she has no control over, because of the inadequacies of the State.

It’s immoral and reprehensible.

Running some numbers, I figure it would cost the school about $140,000 per year for a minimal security force.

If the school has 300 pupils, that works out to $460 per pupil.

I used the following assumptions:

They contract for 2 armed guards (one for the entry control point and one to rove around the school to protect kids who are outside at recess or PE)

11 hour per day coverage (have to cover before and after school care 7 AM - 6 PM)

40 weeks per year.

I figure a 32% fringe rate (for health and dental and ADD coverage, etc)

10% G&A (to pay for the share of indirect people, like payroll, HR, etc)

8% profit

Anybody who does success contracting will tell you that those are fairly competitive rates.

So then the question must be asked, how many students will be yanked because of a $460 tuition increase. And if they can’t find a replacement, how much additional would they need to raise tuition if they lost, say, 50 students that they couldn’t replace? And at what point will they need to consolidate classes and lay off faculty members?

 

[JMJSHJ]

Running some numbers, I figure it would cost the school about $140,000 per year for a minimal security force.

If the school has 300 pupils, that works out to $460 per pupil.

I used the following assumptions:

They contract for 2 armed guards (one for the entry control point and one to rove around the school to protect kids who are outside at recess or PE)

11 hour per day coverage (have to cover before and after school care 7 AM - 6 PM)

40 weeks per year.

I figure a 32% fringe rate (for health and dental and ADD coverage, etc)

10% G&A (to pay for the share of indirect people, like payroll, HR, etc)

8% profit

Anybody who does success contracting will tell you that those are fairly competitive rates.

So then the question must be asked, how many students will be yanked because of a $460 tuition increase. And if they can’t find a replacement, how much additional would they need to raise tuition if they lost, say, 50 students that they couldn’t replace? And at what point will they need to consolidate classes and lay off faculty members?

Thanks for the number crunching. At $460 per student that is $1.25 per day for the family.

Here’s why the school failed for the teacher. Let’s forget this ever happened. With school shootings occurring and I would imagine that this school is a gun free zone which to the pro gun people is an open target for mass shooters, then security is a must. It would also be obvious that the school currently doesn’t have full time security during school hours.

Do we really think that $1.25 is too much?

 

[jilly4ski]

Thanks for the number crunching. At $460 per student that is $1.25 per day for the family.

Here’s why the school failed for the teacher. Let’s forget this ever happened. With school shootings occurring and I would imagine that this school is a gun free zone which to the pro gun people is an open target for mass shooters, then security is a must. It would also be obvious that the school currently doesn’t have full time security during school hours.

Do we really think that $1.25 is too much?

Who budgets money per day? I don’t know about you but I budget per month, if the school lets you have a monthly payment plan. Considering the kids are in school for 9 months of the year, $460 for 9 months is ~$51 a month. This is assuming that some parents don’t take their kids out of the private school and thus raise that cost, as the cost goes up, they will loose more students, making the cost go up. (and teachers and staff losing jobs). But even better a lot of Catholic schools make you pay for the whole semester up front. Do you have an extra $230 sitting around in late August/early September, after you just spent a couple hundred on school supplies, uniforms, fall sports, and just paid tuition? Also, the numbers were based on per student not per family. So what happens if a family has more than one student in the school, two or even three perhaps? I think, unless one is wealthy, that school either just lost families with more than one kid or they are going to be swallowing that cost some other way.

 

[JMJSHJ]

Who budgets money per day? I don’t know about you but I budget per month, if the school lets you have a monthly payment plan. Considering the kids are in school for 9 months of the year, $460 for 9 months is ~$51 a month. This is assuming that some parents don’t take their kids out of the private school and thus raise that cost, as the cost goes up, they will loose more students, making the cost go up. (and teachers and staff losing jobs). But even better a lot of Catholic schools make you pay for the whole semester up front. Do you have an extra $230 sitting around in late August/early September, after you just spent a couple hundred on school supplies, uniforms, fall sports, and just paid tuition? Also, the numbers were based on per student not per family. So what happens if a family has more than one student in the school, two or even three perhaps? I think, unless one is wealthy, that school either just lost families with more than one kid or they are going to be swallowing that cost some other way.

I used the day amount as an example of low that cost really is. Whether its $1.25 per day or $37.50 a month (you can save that amount of money over the summer months) is irrelevant. As for having an extra $230 come August/September I would hope that parents like most adults would BUDGET. You sit down and prepare how to finance that. If parents really care about their kid’s safety the way they demanded the school to fire the teacher.

 

[fix]

Thanks for the number crunching. At $460 per student that is $1.25 per day for the family.

Here’s why the school failed for the teacher. Let’s forget this ever happened. With school shootings occurring and I would imagine that this school is a gun free zone which to the pro gun people is an open target for mass shooters, then security is a must. It would also be obvious that the school currently doesn’t have full time security during school hours.

Do we really think that $1.25 is too much?

Do you really think security guards are the answer? Perhaps we can have barbed wire and tanks surround the school? Why not use some common sense? There is a known target that is attracting a menace who could easily cause tremendous harm to many. Move the source of attraction that you know is a problem. Her “rights” do not outweigh logic and the safety of others.

 

[fix]

I used the day amount as an example of low that cost really is. Whether its $1.25 per day or $37.50 a month (you can save that amount of money over the summer months) is irrelevant. As for having an extra $230 come August/September I would hope that parents like most adults would BUDGET. You sit down and prepare how to finance that. If parents really care about their kid’s safety the way they demanded the school to fire the teacher.

Yes, and can we know for sure that the increase is cost will protect the innocent?

 

[JMJSHJ]

Do you really think security guards are the answer? Perhaps we can have barbed wire and tanks surround the school? Why not use some common sense? There is a known target that is attracting a menace who could easily cause tremendous harm to many. Move the source of attraction that you know is a problem. Her “rights” do not outweigh logic and the safety of others.

Explain to me how you can defend Texas public schools having armed security and teachers being permitted to carry concealed weapons but are too cheap to have armed security at a private school?

Having security guards is common sense. Attributing the current problem to the teacher is like firing a black teacher because neo-nazi’s have made threats against a teacher.

 

[fix]

Explain to me how you can defend Texas public schools having armed security and teachers being permitted to carry concealed weapons but are too cheap to have armed security at a private school?

Having security guards is common sense. Attributing the current problem to the teacher is like firing a black teacher because neo-nazi’s have made threats against a teacher.

Having armed guards does not preclude the school from doing other things to maintain safety.

If the Nazis made death threats that would not mean we jeopardize all the kids to maintain some perceived standard of equality. The other kids have rights too. What you would be arguing is that some job teaching school is so inviolable that we can never separate a teacher even if it means potential death to innocent kids.

 

[fix]

I used the day amount as an example of low that cost really is. Whether its $1.25 per day or $37.50 a month (you can save that amount of money over the summer months) is irrelevant. As for having an extra $230 come August/September I would hope that parents like most adults would BUDGET. You sit down and prepare how to finance that. If parents really care about their kid’s safety the way they demanded the school to fire the teacher.

I would like to ask those that find removing this teacher so wrong this question. What if the school consulted with police and security firms and they were told there is no way to ensure the safety of students without removing the teacher? Would that satisfy you?

 

[vames]

I would like to ask those that find removing this teacher so wrong this question. What if the school consulted with police and security firms and they were told there is no way to ensure the safety of students without removing the teacher? Would that satisfy you?

But perhaps she would be better off dead and buried (i.e. definitively “removed”), as the only 100% sure way to stop that unavoidable, apocalyptic, lifelong menace from reaching each and every place where she could seek a job?? Killing her right now would be such a charitable deed, since it would finally guarantee the safety of all those endangered, helpless, terrified citizens Plus, she would die anyway, because she won’t be able to find a job anymore, so why wait?

 

[JMJSHJ]

I would like to ask those that find removing this teacher so wrong this question. What if the school consulted with police and security firms and they were told there is no way to ensure the safety of students without removing the teacher? Would that satisfy you?

I would ask the police if the only threat to the students is this ex-husband? When they would say no, then I would ask, wouldn’t having armed security be a good measure to help ensure that all students be reasonably protected.

Let me ask you this. Couldn’t the diocese have offered the teacher a job at an undisclosed location much like what has been done in L.A.?

 

[mtbender]

Let me ask you this. Couldn’t the diocese have offered the teacher a job at an undisclosed location much like what has been done in L.A.?

Should the Diocese do this for every contract that they do not renew??

 

[fix]

But perhaps she would be better off dead and buried (i.e. definitively “removed”), as the only 100% sure way to stop that unavoidable, apocalyptic, lifelong menace from reaching each and every place where she could seek a job?? Killing her right now would be such a charitable deed, since it would finally guarantee the safety of all those endangered, helpless, terrified citizens Plus, she would die anyway, because she won’t be able to find a job anymore, so why wait?

Maybe we should have the National Guard around the school so that we can protect the students? That way no one has to have their contract not renewed? I mean the teaching position is so central to all of existence that nothing matters other than her contract. It is not like these school shooting happen that often. I mean heck so what if other kids are put in danger? We have to look out for the teaching position above all else.