Dominican Sister of St. Cecilia under fire by students for talk on homosexuality

[djames99]

“and the fact that a student body at Catholic school would petition against her is indicative of the possibility of bad formation in Catholic teaching being received by the students”.

You will note the same attitudes on a higher level. Nations(student) no longer want to hear from the Teacher (Mater et Magestra) Church.

But the Sister shares her cross with Sister Helen Prejean and others who also has taken abuse in this way.

The young are already being swayed to the HS psyche, and it should be expected they will resist.

These things will become worst as the end times approach, and we haven’t seen the worst yet I’m afraid. They need to persevere and be confident the Lord is with them, for whoever rejects them, rejects our Lord as well.

 

[guiltyofdoubt]

Excuses, excuses.

Hypocrisy.

These parents can take their “offense” and cling to it all they want, but I have little doubt that the Sister spoke based on TRUE CATHOLIC TEACHING AND DOCTRINE, and I don’t need to have been there to believe it.

Part of the problem we have in the US is there are several high-profile “Catholics” that are also Democrats (Pelosi, Biden, etc.) and therefore publicly support and even promote the MORTAL SINS of Gay “Marriage” and Homosexuality, not to mention Abortion.

These people make it seem that its OK to be Catholic and hold these beliefs. Nothing could be further from The Truth, and sometimes The Truth hurts if you have been blinded to it by Humanism and Secularism.

Love the Sinner and hate the Sin, but the mother who works at App State is choosing to misappropriate the attitude of Pope Francis to make it seem that we should be “accepting” of homosexuality and its associated ills. Nothing could be further from the Truth. We should pray that homosexuality would end, that those with that inclination might be able to be strong against it with the Graces of God, we certainly shouldn’t hate them, but homosexuality is NOT OK and NOT acceptable in any way, shape, or form, and it is literally infecting our society, making many of us numb to its presence and effects…

 

[JimG]

When it comes to matters of homosexuality, along with other matters of sexual morality such as cohabitation and premarital sex, the situation today is rather similar to the situation in the period prior to Paul VI’s issuing of the encyclical Humanae Vitae.

At that time, some groups were actively agitating for a change in the Church’s teaching on contraception. They were going so far as to make it seem that change was inevitable, that the Church would change its teaching merely because of new conditions and new methods of contraception.

Of course, the teaching could not change, and it did not. But the fact that many elites were saying that it would, made many ordinary Catholics feel betrayed by the Church when Humanae Vitae was issued, when they were really betrayed by the false prospects raised by dissenters.

In the same way, today, many are saying that of course the Church will change its teaching on homosexuality, on cohabitation, on divorce, any number of things. It won’t happen. Perhaps homosexuality is the new contraception, being pushed as an inevitable change in Church teaching. But of course the Church’s moral teachings on sexuality will not change.

 

[SMGS127]

Excuses, excuses.

Hypocrisy.

These parents can take their “offense” and cling to it all they want, but I have little doubt that the Sister spoke based on TRUE CATHOLIC TEACHING AND DOCTRINE, and I don’t need to have been there to believe it.

Part of the problem we have in the US is there are several high-profile “Catholics” that are also Democrats (Pelosi, Biden, etc.) and therefore publicly support and even promote the MORTAL SINS of Gay “Marriage” and Homosexuality, not to mention Abortion.

These people make it seem that its OK to be Catholic and hold these beliefs. Nothing could be further from The Truth, and sometimes The Truth hurts if you have been blinded to it by Humanism and Secularism.

Love the Sinner and hate the Sin, but the mother who works at App State is choosing to misappropriate the attitude of Pope Francis to make it seem that we should be “accepting” of homosexuality and its associated ills. Nothing could be further from the Truth. We should pray that homosexuality would end, that those with that inclination might be able to be strong against it with the Graces of God, we certainly shouldn’t hate them, but homosexuality is NOT OK and NOT acceptable in any way, shape, or form, and it is literally infecting our society, making many of us numb to its presence and effects…

Just because some Catholics are heterodox does not excuse orthodox Catholics to say whatever they like, no matter how true or untrue it is, as long as they stay in line with orthodox teaching. Surely you can at least agree with that statement?

 

[WildCatholic]

I say kick the kids out of school. If they want tolerance they can go to public school. Heck in my Catholic school, my own heterodox sister failed a class because she was pro choice and she kept at it and eventually they told her she should leave. I don’t care if it’s discrimination. Catholic schools need good catholics. Not bad ones. Tell them to agree or get out.

 

[saintjohnxxiii]

She took half of a speech dedicated to the importance of marriage and devoted that half entirely to homosexuality, which is an absurd amount to begin with. I will stand up to defend any person attacked for speaking the Faith of the Church. However, this Sister, while she was likely well-intentioned, seems to have not only stepped well beyond the teachings of the Church, but also made several inflammatory comments that are wildly off-base.

The kids and parents have a right to be offended, and it appears to have been with good reason.

Where is the transcript or the video of this speech since you seem to have an understanding of what she actually said?

 

[Memaw]

When it comes to matters of homosexuality, along with other matters of sexual morality such as cohabitation and premarital sex, the situation today is rather similar to the situation in the period prior to Paul VI’s issuing of the encyclical Humanae Vitae.

At that time, some groups were actively agitating for a change in the Church’s teaching on contraception. They were going so far as to make it seem that change was inevitable, that the Church would change its teaching merely because of new conditions and new methods of contraception.

Of course, the teaching could not change, and it did not. But the fact that many elites were saying that it would, made many ordinary Catholics feel betrayed by the Church when Humanae Vitae was issued, when they were really betrayed by the false prospects raised by dissenters.

In the same way, today, many are saying that of course the Church will change its teaching on homosexuality, on cohabitation, on divorce, any number of things. It won’t happen. Perhaps homosexuality is the new contraception, being pushed as an inevitable change in Church teaching. But of course the Church’s moral teachings on sexuality will not change.

Amen and AMEN. And of course let’s don’t blame ourselves for following the wrong voices, let’s blame those who speak the TRUTH for doing so along with the Church. We are getting very good at twisting things to fit our thinking. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Prodigal_Son]

When it comes to matters of homosexuality, along with other matters of sexual morality such as cohabitation and premarital sex, the situation today is rather similar to the situation in the period prior to Paul VI’s issuing of the encyclical Humanae Vitae.

At that time, some groups were actively agitating for a change in the Church’s teaching on contraception. They were going so far as to make it seem that change was inevitable, that the Church would change its teaching merely because of new conditions and new methods of contraception.

Of course, the teaching could not change, and it did not. But the fact that many elites were saying that it would, made many ordinary Catholics feel betrayed by the Church when Humanae Vitae was issued, when they were really betrayed by the false prospects raised by dissenters.

In the same way, today, many are saying that of course the Church will change its teaching on homosexuality, on cohabitation, on divorce, any number of things. It won’t happen. Perhaps homosexuality is the new contraception, being pushed as an inevitable change in Church teaching. But of course the Church’s moral teachings on sexuality will not change.

For the most part, I agree. I would say, however, that I think the tsunami of homosexuality will make the contraception stuff of the 1970s look like a light drizzle. The Church, on contraception, could not be made to appear discriminatory – but with homosexuality it can.

Young people *desperately *need true teaching on sexuality. They don’t need people take pot shots against gay people, though. In fact, we need a new breed of evangelists, who – like Jesus – allow themselves to be identified with sinners and eek gay people. This new breed of evangelist will NOT defend the sin, but will defend the sinner.

The age of apologetics is over. Modern society is a mission field with people dying all around us. We need to get our hands dirty.

 

[signit]

I am very glad that this conference is being held and that people are standing up for Sister and for the faith.

I do have certain concerns, based only on hearsay (well it’s all hearsay for all of us, really) but various people have suggested that some troubling statements were made–e.g., gays are trying to convert you, gays are pedophiles, etc.

I take some responsibility for this, based on what I said in the other thread.

I was not saying that the speaker made these specific statements, just that these are typical things said by hard core gay-bashers.

I support Catholic doctrine, but we’ve got to admit when Catholics or other Christians speak out on the social sciences we might not always be right. I was suggesting, for example, that she might have made inaccurate statements on the causes of SSA. And if you do that you might make enemies.

I apologize if I created the wrong impression.

 

[JimG]

For the most part, I agree. I would say, however, that I think the tsunami of homosexuality will make the contraception stuff of the 1970s look like a light drizzle. The Church, on contraception, could not be made to appear discriminatory – but with homosexuality it can.

Young people *desperately *need true teaching on sexuality. They don’t need people take pot shots against gay people, though. In fact, we need a new breed of evangelists, who – like Jesus – allow themselves to be identified with sinners and eek gay people. This new breed of evangelist will NOT defend the sin, but will defend the sinner.

The age of apologetics is over. Modern society is a mission field with people dying all around us. We need to get our hands dirty.

I agree. I think the situation will be much worse. It could threaten the existence of the Church in the U.S. and other secular nations. But it was contraception, after all, that got us to this point, because it was contraception that broke the link between marriage and procreation. That enabled the sexual revolution, and now it enables gay marriage.

 

[Elizium23]

Fr. Z’s blog: Sisters explains the situation. Spittle-flecked nutty, bullying, intimidation ensue.

 

[zz912]

I am very glad that this conference is being held and that people are standing up for Sister and for the faith.

I do have certain concerns, based only on hearsay (well it’s all hearsay for all of us, really) but various people have suggested that some troubling statements were made–e.g., gays are trying to convert you, gays are pedophiles, etc.

Here are the words of one commenter, who claims to be the one that “started” much of this:

^^^^ lots of text but an important read!

That mom is backpedaling and changing her story. Looking at the original complaint, it is apparent that the nun spoke about Catholic teaching, and they were upset about it. And the question I have for this mom is why her 17 year old daughter has not been talked to already about homosexuality and the other “sensitive” topics discussed? She’s almost an adult, not an 8 year old who hasn’t been exposed to these issues. Why haven’t you been teaching your daughter the Catholic faith so that she is able to listen to the nun’s talk and recognize Catholic teaching?

 

[glendab]

Hello Prodigal.

No, this isn’t true either. The Church does not teach that God determines the moral law by divine fiat. God forbids gay sex because gay sex is incompatible with human flourishing.

Now you might say that *God made it *incompatible with human flourishing. But He made it that way **by **producing bad temporal and eternal consequences to it, so my point stands.

A question about your view: Are you saying that God forbids gay sex for no reason at all?

I admit, I too am confused by your statement that gay sex isn’t wrong because God forbids it. Ummm, excuse me, but if it isn’t wrong because God forbids it, then why is it wrong? Anything less than God’s forbidding something is negotiable. Is that perhaps the reason you’d like the argument to veer in another direction that God’s bottom line?

In the Bible, homosexual behaviors are called abominable in the sight of God and the Israelites were instructed to stone to death those among them who practiced such things. It was just as abominable as incest and bestiality. God forbids these things. He demands immediate punishments among the Israelites when such crimes are discovered among them in order for all of them to keep His Covenant. If they refused to carryout God’s sentence of stoning to death of a person caught in homosexual behavior, they’d answer to God for it corporately, that is why they feared to harbor such things. Now, what is different between how God saw it then and how you interpret God seeing it now? Clear that up for us.

Homosexual behavior is abominable and cannot be defended. I don’t really care about the current politically correctness of finding excuse for it. I’ll keep close to His Word on this one. And I don’t really care one bit how out of the loop I seem to others on this issue. A person who has same-sex attraction needs to cast himself or herself on the mercy of God an beg for help and healing and I really don’t want to know all about their struggles.

Glenda

 

[FaustinaJulia]

I am glad that the Catholic schools in my diocese (Charlotte) do present the truth to their students and am grateful that there are such speakers as the Sister discussed here to inform the students of the truth.

This is not a bash on anyone but what I think is happening here, is that, especially in the larger cities down here in the South, a disproportionate number of the Catholic community are from other areas of the country where there may be far more liberal viewpoints about such matters overall and that is very likely the core of the protesting student population and their parents. The fact is, that homegrown Catholics from cradle up here are still in the minority in parishes and usually if you find a native North Carolinian who is Catholic then they’ve converted (like me). I am not saying that other areas of the country are bad or that they do not overall teach Catholic doctrine in the majority of cases but trying to point out the most likely cause, in my opinion, for the discrepancy of this protest in this, known to be, fairly conservative state.

 

[JimG]

I admit, I too am confused by your statement that gay sex isn’t wrong because God forbids it. Ummm, excuse me, but if it isn’t wrong because God forbids it, then why is it wrong? Anything less than God’s forbidding something is negotiable. Is that perhaps the reason you’d like the argument to veer in another direction that God’s bottom line?

Just a thought. I think that perhaps the reference was to natural law. Certainly it is wrong if God forbids it, but God forbids it because it is wrong for us and harmful to us.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Hello Prodigal.

I admit, I too am confused by your statement that gay sex isn’t wrong because God forbids it. Ummm, excuse me, but if it isn’t wrong because God forbids it, then why is it wrong? Anything less than God’s forbidding something is negotiable. Is that perhaps the reason you’d like the argument to veer in another direction that God’s bottom line?

See now, you are completely getting me wrong, and I’m a bit put off by your suggestion that I am thinking with my, errr, nether regions.

Let’s work on a little linguistics. When a person says that “X is wrong because of Y” there are two possible things that could be meant:

(1) The cause of X’s being wrong is Y.
(2) One way that we know that X is wrong is because of Y.

I agree with #2, in this case. I think that we can know that gay sex is wrong because God forbids it. But it is a very different thing to say that God’s will is what *makes *gay sex wrong.

You yourself have said that sodomy is abhorrent. Good. Now ask yourself this: If God said that sodomy is good, would that make it good? Your likely response is to say that God wouldn’t do that! But WHY wouldn’t God do that? Presumably because there is something about sodomy that God judges to be abhorrent for a reason. God RECOGNIZES that sodomy is abhorrent. This makes it impossible for God to “change his mind” about sodomy, the way God might change his mind about whether we can eat pork (for example).

If you agree with what I wrote above about God recognizing the evil of sodomy, then you cannot say #1 – that God’s opinion is what makes sodomy wrong. Rather, you have to say that the intrinsic nature of sodomy is objectionable – which is my position.

In the Bible, homosexual behaviors are called abominable in the sight of God and the Israelites were instructed to stone to death those among them who practiced such things. It was just as abominable as incest and bestiality. God forbids these things. He demands immediate punishments among the Israelites when such crimes are discovered among them in order for all of them to keep His Covenant. If they refused to carryout God’s sentence of stoning to death of a person caught in homosexual behavior, they’d answer to God for it corporately, that is why they feared to harbor such things. Now, what is different between how God saw it then and how you interpret God seeing it now? Clear that up for us.

I don’t disagree at all. God forbids these things because they’re bad for us. He doesn’t forbid them randomly.

Homosexual behavior is abominable and cannot be defended. I don’t really care about the current politically correctness of finding excuse for it. I’ll keep close to His Word on this one. And I don’t really care one bit how out of the loop I seem to others on this issue. A person who has same-sex attraction needs to cast himself or herself on the mercy of God an beg for help and healing and I really don’t want to know all about their struggles.

I agree with everything except that last phrase. It is downright rude – if not unChristian – to say that you don’t want to hear about a person’s struggles to love God and resist sin. I hope that’s not what you meant.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Just a thought. I think that perhaps the reference was to natural law. Certainly it is wrong if God forbids it, but God forbids it because it is wrong for us and harmful to us.

 

[Lormar]

Hello Prodigal.

I admit, I too am confused by your statement that gay sex isn’t wrong because God forbids it. Ummm, excuse me, but if it isn’t wrong because God forbids it, then why is it wrong? Anything less than God’s forbidding something is negotiable. Is that perhaps the reason you’d like the argument to veer in another direction that God’s bottom line?

In the Bible, homosexual behaviors are called abominable in the sight of God and the Israelites were instructed to stone to death those among them who practiced such things. It was just as abominable as incest and bestiality. God forbids these things. He demands immediate punishments among the Israelites when such crimes are discovered among them in order for all of them to keep His Covenant. If they refused to carryout God’s sentence of stoning to death of a person caught in homosexual behavior, they’d answer to God for it corporately, that is why they feared to harbor such things. Now, what is different between how God saw it then and how you interpret God seeing it now? Clear that up for us.

Homosexual behavior is abominable and cannot be defended. I don’t really care about the current politically correctness of finding excuse for it. I’ll keep close to His Word on this one. And I don’t really care one bit how out of the loop I seem to others on this issue. A person who has same-sex attraction needs to cast himself or herself on the mercy of God an beg for help and healing and I really don’t want to know all about their struggles.

Glenda

 

[Prodigal_Son]

A good quotation from the Catholic Encyclopedia, which gets at all I’m trying to say:

Contrary to the almost universally received doctrine, a few theologians held erroneously that the natural law depends not on the essential necessary will of God, but upon His arbitrary positive will, and taught consistently with this view, that the natural law may be dispensed from or even abrogated by God. The conception, however, that the moral law is but an arbitrary enactment of the Creator, involves the denial of any absolute distinction between right and wrong—a denial which, of course, sweeps away the very foundation of the entire moral order.

newadvent.org/cathen/09076a.htm

If the cause of sodomy being wrong is God’s forbidding it (His arbitrary positive will), then our entire moral order is unfounded. That is the Catholic teaching.

 

[fastenatingguy]

For the most part, I agree. I would say, however, that I think the tsunami of homosexuality will make the contraception stuff of the 1970s look like a light drizzle. The Church, on contraception, could not be made to appear discriminatory – but with homosexuality it can.

Young people *desperately *need true teaching on sexuality. They don’t need people take pot shots against gay people, though. In fact, we need a new breed of evangelists, who – like Jesus – allow themselves to be identified with sinners and eek gay people. This new breed of evangelist will NOT defend the sin, but will defend the sinner.

The age of apologetics is over. Modern society is a mission field with people dying all around us. We need to get our hands dirty.

Bravo

As you suggest, lots of work to do