Dominion over the soul

[LDNCatholic]

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ahriman, and I do believe that he was likely inspired by Zoroastrian.

Anyway, We have strayed off topic, as always

Back to my original question, why does ‘rejecting’, though I do feel that is a to strong word for what I feel, ‘god’ send me to hell?

Because choosing to separate yourself from God leads you to separation from God (who’da thunk it?)

If you have lived separated from God, and die separated from God, then you will stay separated from God.

Hell is the only place where you can be truly separated from God.

 

[Laughing_Crow]

Because choosing to separate yourself from God leads you to separation from God (who’da thunk it?)

If you have lived separated from God, and die separated from God, then you will stay separated from God.

Hell is the only place where you can be truly separated from God.

As I said before, i do not want separation, simply distance. I do wish to be able to be with ‘god’, but I also crave solitude at times so I can be left to my thoughts and ideas. I have lived most of my life doing this, socializing but also drawing back into my own shell, and I simply wish to be able to do this after death, if a heaven awaits.

 

[Sufjon]

Correct, that is what I wish to do, to take no sides and sit on the sideline and watch or even just ignore the fight between good and evil and look elsewhere.

Are you asking am I looking at this from a ‘what if angle’? I have accepted there is something else out there, but Im not sure on WHAT that something else is.

It is that life that lead me to protestant, agnostic, atheist, Buddhist, agnostic, atheist and back to agnostic, you could say Im constantly second guessing myself.

Hi Laughing Crow: Sounds like you want to be spiritual in some way, still embrace science, and know that your path is ok. The book below won’t give you a religion but I sure think it would be interesting for a person in your situation.

amazon.com/Self-Aware-Universe-Amit-Goswami/dp/0874777984

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[LDNCatholic]

As I said before, i do not want separation, simply distance. I do wish to be able to be with ‘god’, but I also crave solitude at times so I can be left to my thoughts and ideas. I have lived most of my life doing this, socializing but also drawing back into my own shell, and I simply wish to be able to do this after death, if a heaven awaits.

Well, that’s unfortunate. You cannot get distance from an omnipresent being without separating from Him.

 

[Reuben_J]

One thing has always bothered me about many religions is the fact that they teach that my soul/spirit/essence etc has to accept God or fall to evil. This has bothered me as it makes me feel as if I’m nothing but property with two deities auctioning for my soul. Why can I not turn my back on both and continue on alone to do what I wish? Why if i wave of the hand of ‘God’ do I have to fall to ‘Satan’ when I have no interest in either ‘owning’ me.

I’ve always believed hell or the underworld or whatever name it holds is a place for those who commit horrible actions against others ie murder, rape and I find the idea I will be sent there simply because I crave independence rather unjust.

The problem stems from my beleif that you cant have happiness without sadness, love without hate etc etc, every emotion, act or idea must have a counter balance, and the idea of heaven where this balance no longer exists does not appeal to me. Sure, a place of no suffering is fine at first, but I enjoy suffering because I know that I will feel much happier once I over come that suffering. A reward without a test is meaningless and losses value.

Sorry im walking in circles here:shrug:

I guess what I want to know is if I shun both god and devil, am I sent to hell and why?

You realize you do have a problem as you step into a religious realm, don’t you? Your problem can be explained but as an atheist you will have difficulty in accepting it because the premise where you start differs from the religious one.

Religion (and it is Christianity since I can’t represent other religions) will tell you that first and foremost you are a created being. There you are – you do not believe in this. If you do, your question is answered already.

As a creation you do not have any option except to play according to the rule of your creator. You do not have any choice as to where you go after death – you or we rather do not have the power to create a living sphere of our own. In Christianity, the Creator created us for a purpose – to love and to be with Him forever in heaven. If we cannot achieve heaven then there is no middle ground that is in existence, only hell – the abode of the Evil one.

To love God means to lives according to His way. Failing that then one is won by the Evil one who is also vying for our worship. The way of the Evil one if different from that of the creator – it’s an easy one because it plays to and feeds on our human senses while God’s difficult because His way is different from our ways.

I suggest you do not ask your questions here as the answer will not satisfy you. It’s not that I do not want you to be here, on the contrary; only that you will come out none the better because the answer will not fit your belief. It is totally a different premise altogether.

Regards.

 

[Julian0404]

I better understand your situation, thank you for the background. Perhaps one of your objections to GOD the Father is that you have never experienced “a father” on an intimate level. The relationship of a father to his children is very grounding allowing for each of the children to feel safe and grow in themselves and the knowledge of how relationships and the world works. Sadly, for reasons not yet known, you have not had that type of relationship with your father. The bible teaches us that GOD loves us to the point of never, never, abandoning us “. . Though my father and mother foresake me, yet will the LORD receive me.” Psalm 27 - my favorite entitled TRUST IN GOD.

Yes, you can go off and live your life without GOD. No one will force you to chose HIM. And I doubt that satan will bother you either, because if you chose not to accept GOD, then satan is happy with that decision.

You asked another post, about hell, what is hell like. GOD has granted several saints the vision of the hell. For one or two, HE actual took them into hell. And HE gave the three chidlren of Fatima, Portugal the vision of hell during the time of the visitations by the Virgin Mary. All have reported the same scenario. Lake of fire with people “looking like burning coals” rolling, floating and sinking in this lake of fire. The terrible smell of sulfur, and hideous creatures tormenting the people as well, these being the fallen angels who were given terrible forms after they fell. With the internet you can probably research some of the saints comments. Additionally, go to Luke Chapter 16 versus 19-31 wherein JESUS relays the story of the Rich Man and poor man named Lazarus. The Rich Man ends up in hell because he failed to provide for Lazarus, although he had all the means and capability to do so. Sins’s of omission are as great as sins of commission. And in hell, the Rich Man looks up and see’s Lazarus who has gone to “the bosom of Abraham” - heaven is not yet open as JESUS has not died and risen, so Lazarus is in purgatory. And the Rich Man calls out to Abraham " Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water to refresh my tongue, for I am tortured in these flames"'

It is a terrible place. And the Virgin Mary, during her visit to Fatima, Portugal announced that “souls are falling into hell like snow flakes in a storm” and She further declared that the single greatest sin that is putting so many souls into hell are sins of sexual impropriety

Laughing Crow, call on GOD. Ask HIM to help you understand HIM. Ask HIM to give you the grace to know HIM, love HIM and serve HIM.

Today, Sept 29th is the Feast Day of the Archangels Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael and I will begin a rosary novena asking them to intercede before GOD on your behalf requesting that GOD grants you the wisdom, knowledge and understanding to believe and be received into heaven through your new found faith.

For your part, you only have to ask and say yes to GOD.

 

[Laughing_Crow]

I better understand your situation, thank you for the background. Perhaps one of your objections to GOD the Father is that you have never experienced “a father” on an intimate level. The relationship of a father to his children is very grounding allowing for each of the children to feel safe and grow in themselves and the knowledge of how relationships and the world works. Sadly, for reasons not yet known, you have not had that type of relationship with your father. The bible teaches us that GOD loves us to the point of never, never, abandoning us “. . Though my father and mother foresake me, yet will the LORD receive me.” Psalm 27 - my favorite entitled TRUST IN GOD.

Yes, you can go off and live your life without GOD. No one will force you to chose HIM. And I doubt that satan will bother you either, because if you chose not to accept GOD, then satan is happy with that decision.

You asked another post, about hell, what is hell like. GOD has granted several saints the vision of the hell. For one or two, HE actual took them into hell. And HE gave the three chidlren of Fatima, Portugal the vision of hell during the time of the visitations by the Virgin Mary. All have reported the same scenario. Lake of fire with people “looking like burning coals” rolling, floating and sinking in this lake of fire. The terrible smell of sulfur, and hideous creatures tormenting the people as well, these being the fallen angels who were given terrible forms after they fell. With the internet you can probably research some of the saints comments. Additionally, go to Luke Chapter 16 versus 19-31 wherein JESUS relays the story of the Rich Man and poor man named Lazarus. The Rich Man ends up in hell because he failed to provide for Lazarus, although he had all the means and capability to do so. Sins’s of omission are as great as sins of commission. And in hell, the Rich Man looks up and see’s Lazarus who has gone to “the bosom of Abraham” - heaven is not yet open as JESUS has not died and risen, so Lazarus is in purgatory. And the Rich Man calls out to Abraham " Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water to refresh my tongue, for I am tortured in these flames"'

It is a terrible place. And the Virgin Mary, during her visit to Fatima, Portugal announced that “souls are falling into hell like snow flakes in a storm” and She further declared that the single greatest sin that is putting so many souls into hell are sins of sexual impropriety

Laughing Crow, call on GOD. Ask HIM to help you understand HIM. Ask HIM to give you the grace to know HIM, love HIM and serve HIM.

Today, Sept 29th is the Feast Day of the Archangels Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael and I will begin a rosary novena asking them to intercede before GOD on your behalf requesting that GOD grants you the wisdom, knowledge and understanding to believe and be received into heaven through your new found faith.

For your part, you only have to ask and say yes to GOD.

I think I may have discovered oen of my problems with accepting the black and white of hell and heaven, I do not think either is ‘right’ for me. I feel I am not evil enough to be cast into hell, but at the same time, feel I am not good enough or to corrupt to enter into heaven. Actually it has prompted me to start writing a little short story about the way I feel in regards to it.

Ill clear up what I mean so there is no confusion. When I say ‘not good enough’ I mean I think I am to dangerous/aggressive for heaven. A good analogy I like to use is imagine everyone as a sword. Most people stay in their ‘sheaths’ (place of calm, rest, peace), some however have no sheath, these people usually are violent who usually enter into evil (murder etc). I feel I am half out of my sheath, I have a little peace, but Im always on the edge of being fully drawn and destroying those around me, not so much physically but emotionally. Also i believe my ‘gray’ sight (seeing not good or evil, just different shades of good and evil) is making it hard for me to see the black and white.

In regards to Reuben J’s post, it does matter quite a lot, I will leave here differently, with rather a better view or even possibly converting ( i can here the 16 year old Corey trying to hit me for that ) or I might come out with a worse view. Never disregard how much a person simple experience with others can alter things.

 

[Reuben_J]

In regards to Reuben J’s post, it does matter quite a lot, I will leave here differently, with rather a better view or even possibly converting ( i can here the 16 year old Corey trying to hit me for that ) or I might come out with a worse view. Never disregard how much a person simple experience with others can alter things.

What do you mean by that (the bolded part)?

Most atheists that came here are sure of their belief; some were even ex-Catholics – altar boys, attending mass, and all that. Somewhere along the way they discovered their true belief and became what they are (atheists).

An atheist, as far as I know, does not believe in the existence of God. We do however. Our answers to your questions can only be through our lens – of ones who believe in the existence of God. Unfortunately or fortunately, the answer to your problem as I see it involves the premise of God’s existence. How is that can square with your belief? Would what you hear here be something that you did not already know?

 

[Laughing_Crow]

What do you mean by that (the bolded part)?

Most atheists that came here are sure of their belief; some were even ex-Catholics – altar boys, attending mass, and all that. Somewhere along the way they discovered their true belief and became what they are (atheists).

An atheist, as far as I know, does not believe in the existence of God. We do however. Our answers to your questions can only be through our lens – of ones who believe in the existence of God. Unfortunately or fortunately, the answer to your problem as I see it involves the premise of God’s existence. How is that can square with your belief? Would what you hear here be something that you did not already know?

Ah sorry, what i meant with (these) was, my name is Corey and at 16 i was a very active atheist to the point of being a right w****r.

Also I should clear up i am no longer atheist, and my questions are so I can better understand Catholics positions on this matter, as all I have to go by is the ‘popular media’ version, which is obviously quite wrong.