Donald Trump Calls for Barring Muslims From Entering U.S

[Brendan_64]

So, from my point of view, neighborhoods can change very quickly. One may have no knowledge of what is happening just two blocks away!

There is truth in what you say, but don’t you think that it is just slightly more likely that someone who lives in the area will probably have just a bit more knowledge of that area than someone living on the other side of the world who has probably never even visited the area and gets their knowledge from rhetoric spouted by politicians and what they read online?

The nonsense about ‘no go’ areas in London for non-Muslims is complete nonsense. Yes there are some very dodgy areas in London where you would not want to enter (usually some large estates) but these have always been there and this has nothing to do specifically with Muslims.

 

[Darryl1958]

It is not complete nonsense, as has already been explained.

 

[St_Francis]

It is not complete nonsense, as has already been explained.

Here’s a link to the (presumed) article by Daniel Pipes.

Here is the article linked by Pipes regarding the fact that the no-go “policies” seem directed more at police, some of whom are instructed to wear plainclothes to and from work.

 

[St_Francis]

There is truth in what you say, but don’t you think that it is just slightly more likely that someone who lives in the area will probably have just a bit more knowledge of that area than someone living on the other side of the world who has probably never even visited the area and gets their knowledge from rhetoric spouted by politicians and what they read online?

The nonsense about ‘no go’ areas in London for non-Muslims is complete nonsense. Yes there are some very dodgy areas in London where you would not want to enter (usually some large estates) but these have always been there and this has nothing to do specifically with Muslims.

If the news had not reported the 400-odd murders in DC when I was living there, I would not have known about it. If the police had been basically banned from an area and the news had not reported it, I would not have known about it.

During the time that I lived in DC, I went to California for a week, and a fight between two teens in a park was reported on the news. I imagine there were many fights in DC, but I never heard about them, so I couldn’t have told anyone about the many or few fights.

 

[Crossbones]

There is truth in what you say, but don’t you think that it is just slightly more likely that someone who lives in the area will probably have just a bit more knowledge of that area than someone living on the other side of the world who has probably never even visited the area and gets their knowledge from rhetoric spouted by politicians and what they read online?

The nonsense about ‘no go’ areas in London for non-Muslims is complete nonsense. Yes there are some very dodgy areas in London where you would not want to enter (usually some large estates) but these have always been there and this has nothing to do specifically with Muslims.

I read there were less than 100 murders in London last year for the first time in a very long time. Have the politicians considered that concealed carry will reduce that even farther? I think if more people in London were armed with handguns, the murder rate would go down.

 

[Brendan_64]

It is not complete nonsense, as has already been explained.

I’m sorry, but it is complete nonsense. There are no ‘no go’ areas in London where non-Muslims cannot enter. It really is rich when people on the other side of the world, who probably have never set foot in my city, are informing me of what is happening where I live.

The source of such ideas seem to come from sensationalist ‘news’ sources and US politicians. Would someone like to specifically list these ‘no-go’ areas in London and cite proper evidence. A general, sensationalist ‘news’ report (which has no specific sources cited in it) is not proper evidence.

It seems that in order to know what is going on in an area you need to live on the other side of the world, have never set foot in the place, read sensationalist news reports (from non-mainstream sources) and listen to Donald Trump.

 

[Darryl1958]

I’m sorry, but it is complete nonsense. There are no ‘no go’ areas in London where non-Muslims cannot enter. It really is rich when people on the other side of the world, who probably have never set foot in my city, are informing me of what is happening where I live.

The source of such ideas seem to come from sensationalist ‘news’ sources and US politicians. Would someone like to specifically list these ‘no-go’ areas in London and cite proper evidence. A general, sensationalist ‘news’ report (which has no specific sources cited in it) is not proper evidence.

It seems that in order to know what is going on in an area you need to live on the other side of the world, have never set foot in the place, read sensationalist news reports (from non-mainstream sources) and listen to Donald Trump.

Instead of pretending that what I said has anything to do with Donald Trump, I think you have to go back and read the link that I alluded to, and that St Francis has so kindly provided.
It is pointless to have a discussion if reading what the other person has to say plays no part in the rebuttal.

 

[Brendan_64]

I read there were less than 100 murders in London last year for the first time in a very long time. Have the politicians considered that concealed carry will reduce that even farther? I think if more people in London were armed with handguns, the murder rate would go down.

Gun crime is rare as it is in the UK. I’m not sure that allowing everybody to carry guns will reduce gun crime.

And what is the typical murder rate in a similar sized US city, where concealed handguns are permitted? There are 8.5 million people living in London with an annual murder rate of 83, that is a rate of less than 1 in 100,000. New York has a murder rate of 4 times that and it is considered to be one of the safer US cities.

 

[liturgyluver]

What Trump said originally was that the Police are scared for their lives. Well, they have little reason to be: In the whole of the UK this year there have been 3 police officer deaths(none killed by felons) the equivalent in the USA is 123. This probably means he would be best focussing on his own country.

 

[Brendan_64]

Instead of pretending that what I said has anything to do with Donald Trump, I think you have to go back and read the link that I alluded to, and that St Francis has so kindly provided.
It is pointless to have a discussion if reading what the other person has to say plays no part in the rebuttal.

Those links do not contain credible sources. Neither are mainstream news sources and the Breitbart report actually mentions nothing about non-Muslim ‘no-go’ areas in London (he just says there are some ‘no-go’ areas for white people, like there always have been) just an un-named police officer mentioning something about Preston (which is in Lancashire). The Breitbart report is complete sensationalism based on nothing. And the other online blog cited does not mention London at all ( it is about France).

An online blog report talking about France, and a fringe sensationalist online report that mentions nothing about ‘no go’ areas in London, hardly represent credible evidence of ‘no go’ areas in London for non-Muslims.

Have you actually read the reports cited as ‘evidence’? If so, them kindly quote me something from either of those two reports that includes a credible source citing ‘no go’ areas for non-Muslims in London.

You are trying to convince someone who lives in the London area that (despite his experience of living there) there are ‘no go’ areas for non-Muslims there and in order to do this you show him an online blog about France and a fringe report that makes no mention of ‘no go’ for non-Muslims areas in London?

This really is the case of believing a political narrative and then trying to find ‘evidence’ to back up that belief.

 

[DeniseNY]

. This probably means he would be best focussing on his own country.

I think in general a lot of people would be well served by taking this advice.

 

[St_Francis]

Those links do not contain credible sources. Neither are mainstream news sources and the Breitbart report actually mentions nothing about non-Muslim ‘no-go’ areas in London (he just says there are some ‘no-go’ areas for white people, like there always have been) just an un-named police officer mentioning something about Preston (which is in Lancashire). The Breitbart report is complete sensationalism based on nothing. And the other online blog cited does not mention London at all ( it is about France).

An online blog report talking about France, and a fringe sensationalist online report that mentions nothing about ‘no go’ areas in London, hardly represent credible evidence of ‘no go’ areas in London for non-Muslims.

Have you actually read the reports cited as ‘evidence’? If so, them kindly quote me something from either of those two reports that includes a credible source citing ‘no go’ areas for non-Muslims in London.

You are trying to convince someone who lives in the London area that (despite his experience of living there) there are ‘no go’ areas for non-Muslims there and in order to do this you show him an online blog about France and a fringe report that makes no mention of ‘no go’ for non-Muslims areas in London?

This really is the case of believing a political narrative and then trying to find ‘evidence’ to back up that belief.

I don’t know that anyone has said anything about areas that non-Moslems in general can’t go to without risk, just police.

And while it is true that we are in a different country, I have been reading about these areas for two or three years now.

Maybe we will just have to set this issue aside as currently unresolvable.

 

[St_Francis]

Gun crime is rare as it is in the UK. I’m not sure that allowing everybody to carry guns will reduce gun crime.

And what is the typical murder rate in a similar sized US city, where concealed handguns are permitted? There are 8.5 million people living in London with an annual murder rate of 83, that is a rate of less than 1 in 100,000. New York has a murder rate of 4 times that and it is considered to be one of the safer US cities.

Nee York city has very strict gun control.

 

[Darryl1958]

Those links do not contain credible sources. Neither are mainstream news sources and the Breitbart report actually mentions nothing about non-Muslim ‘no-go’ areas in London (he just says there are some ‘no-go’ areas for white people, like there always have been) just an un-named police officer mentioning something about Preston (which is in Lancashire). The Breitbart report is complete sensationalism based on nothing. And the other online blog cited does not mention London at all ( it is about France).

An online blog report talking about France, and a fringe sensationalist online report that mentions nothing about ‘no go’ areas in London, hardly represent credible evidence of ‘no go’ areas in London for non-Muslims.

Have you actually read the reports cited as ‘evidence’? If so, them kindly quote me something from either of those two reports that includes a credible source citing ‘no go’ areas for non-Muslims in London.

You are trying to convince someone who lives in the London area that (despite his experience of living there) there are ‘no go’ areas for non-Muslims there and in order to do this you show him an online blog about France and a fringe report that makes no mention of ‘no go’ for non-Muslims areas in London?

This really is the case of believing a political narrative and then trying to find ‘evidence’ to back up that belief.

I think that sources that provide actual quotations from police are more credible a source than anecdotes from anonymous posters on an internet forum.
But that is just me.
Daniel Pipes is a Harvard educated expert on the ME, who has visited twenty eight of these neighbourhoods across the Western world, so what is incredible is how people can filter out anything that even remotely disrupts their world views, even when the evidence he brings back is largely in agreement with that worldview.

People live very cocooned lives to be closed off to so much of the world that lies even a fraction of an inch outside of their comfort zone.

 

[Darryl1958]

Brice De Ruyver, who spent eight years as security adviser to then-Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt, said Molenbeek suffers from a cocktail of problems. “Youths are poorly educated, attracted by petty crime, have run-ins with police, and then there is a vicious circle, which leads to recruitment by radical groups,” he said, adding that the problems are now so serious, that it is hard to find police willing to bother tackling them.

“We don’t officially have no-go zones in Brussels, but in reality, there are, and they are in Molenbeek.”

independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-attacks-visiting-molenbeek-the-police-no-go-zone-that-was-home-to-two-of-the-gunmen-a6735551.html

 

[Darryl1958]

swedenreport.org/2015/05/18/police-yes-there-are-no-go-zones-in-sweden/

Jacob Ekström is a police officer working in these areas. He has this to say in the latest issue of Forsking & Framsteg, the premier scientific journal in Sweden:

“The situation is slipping from our grasp,” he says about infamous enclaves Tensta and Rinkeby. “If we’re in pursuit of a vehicle, it can evade us by driving to certain neighborhoods where a lone patrol car simply cannot follow, because we’ll get pelted by rocks and even face riots. These are No-Go Zones. We simply can’t go there.” [My bold]

 

[Thomas_White]

Gun crime is rare as it is in the UK. I’m not sure that allowing everybody to carry guns will reduce gun crime.

And what is the typical murder rate in a similar sized US city, where concealed handguns are permitted? There are 8.5 million people living in London with an annual murder rate of 83, that is a rate of less than 1 in 100,000. New York has a murder rate of 4 times that and it is considered to be one of the safer US cities.

For many years, the largest U.S. gunmaker was owned by a UK conglomerate. Facing 30 lawsuits from U.S. states and others over gun deaths, they bailed out at a huge financial loss.

 

[Crossbones]

Gun crime is rare as it is in the UK. I’m not sure that allowing everybody to carry guns will reduce gun crime.

And what is the typical murder rate in a similar sized US city, where concealed handguns are permitted? There are 8.5 million people living in London with an annual murder rate of 83, that is a rate of less than 1 in 100,000. New York has a murder rate of 4 times that and it is considered to be one of the safer US cities.

Huh? Well, based on what I learned around here, having more guns lowers crime rates, so I have to re-examine that idea. Of course, some will try to compare the gun control in individual cities with what the UK does in the entire country, so I’m sure some false equivalencies are upcoming.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

Oddsmakers have had Hillary Clinton winning in 2016 ever since she announced she was running. I expect her to be the next president, but if there’s one way she could be beaten, it’ll be on her weak position on Islamic terrorism.

When it comes to describing a group like ISIL I find that Mrs Clinton sounds similar to the GOP Presidential candidates.

Hillary Clinton uses the term Radical Jihadists…a term that no past POTUS has used to describe a group like ISIL. Mrs Clinton is using terms that include Islamic identifiers to describe ISIL. I dont think that Obama or GWB were weak on terrorism, and I dont think that Mrs Clinton would be weak on terrorism. GWB specifically called AQ a terrorist group as to not needlessly offend our Muslim allies. AQ has attacked Jordan, Saudi Arabia and other Muslim nations. Fighting AQ is not only the USAs fight, but its also Jordan and Saudi Arabias fight.

On the other hand, Jordan has contributed radicals clearly to ISIS, so one may wonder where that leaves us, if a son of a member of Parliament joins ISIS, that in itself is worrisome and could indicate widespread extremism:

If one of the more Moderate Middle Eastern Countries is reported to have the most recruits to ISIS, that being Tunisia, what does this tell us? I believe Tunisia also has been in the news for closing 80 Mosques that they alleged spread extremist views.

I don’t know if I agree with the notion that Tunisia contributes the most ISIS recruits or fighters but anyway, they must be up there. I’m not sure if the “study” cited is solidly accurate, it appears to be a difficult topic to research actually.

I’m not sure of the #s, there have been numerous reports of which country is leading the way wrt folks who have joined ISIL. I do know that groups like AQ and ISIL have white Americans as members… Adam Gadahn comes to mind as one of the most prolific white American members of AQ. Aq and ISIL are inclusive of many non Arabs.

ISIL has said its going to invade Jordan, ISIL has already burned alive a Jordanian pilot. The King of Jordan has said the war against ISIL is a war within Islam, and hes right…what we see today is like what the early Muslims faced. Jordanians are like the early Muslims led by Muhammad, ISIL is like the group that sought to attack and remove the early Muslims. The early Muslims faced attacks and in fact a Christian King(Negus of Abbysina) saved the lives of a group of early Muslims who sought refugee. Today, folks like you and I are faced with a similar decision that faced the Negus…do we help refugees…and IMO the answer is yes it is the Lords work to help refugees.

Btw I liked Lindsey Grahams comments during the last GOP debate, Graham said thank you to the thousands of American Muslims who serve in the US armed forces. Its to bad Graham has dropped out. That said I for one do not agree that terrorism is a part of any of the 3 religions of Abraham, therefore I do not connect terms like radical , terrorist, or extremist to any of the 3 religions of Abraham.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

Something happened in Ohio today that really highlights how ridiculous the paranoia and has become and I’m sharing it here to remind everyone that anti-Muslim rhetoric has consequences for real people. The Lima Police Department was flooded with calls and photos were circulated on the internet of a “suspicious woman” in a burqa taking a photo outside of a Joanne’s Fabric store. The response was unbelievable. The police posted the following on their Facebook Page:

“We have identified the woman in the photo that is circulating on the internet in the vicinity of Joanne Fabrics. We have spoken to the woman and her mother. After speaking to her, we have confirmed that there is no danger to anyone in the community. We are asking that you respect their family involved and do not comment negatively on this post.
Thank you for your cooperation.”

Turns out the “suspicious woman” was a 15 year old girl thoroughly embarrassed by the experience and sadly, the general public in Lima didn’t oblige the request of the police to be respectful. One such comment read: “Wake up people they are here waiting for their opportunity to kill you and your family. Buy a gun while you can.” Surprisingly enough, the girl responded to this by saying, “Actually, no. I am not planning on killing anyone in Lima. I took a selfie while I was waiting for the bus. Don’t profile me.”

The latest update is that she had to leave town due to concerns for her safety stemming from death threats. Running a 15 year old girl out of town is unacceptable and the rhetoric needs to stop before worse happens.

Thx for sharing this and good point. Fwiw I find that its safe to say most Americans are against bigotry, whatever race or religion that the bigotry may be directed against.