Donald Trump Presidential Campaign Thread

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_Abyssinia said:
That Benghazi commitee research website is clearly not independent. Perhaps the New York Times should have waited to see what the report will actually say before running what it seems to me, a defence for Clinton from the editorial board.
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I think they felt comfortable because it has gone on for so long and come up with bupkis.
 
Thorolfr said:
Some of the most important material that was released did not involve “unproven allegations”. It included internal Trump University materials like the “playbook” which gave instructions for how instructors should try to get people to take expensive Gold Elite courses even if they couldn’t afford it by convincing them to put the charges on their credit cards. So that kind of material is not just an “allegation” by some dissatisfied former student.
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And why would confidential documents obtained by subpoena be released to the New York Times during the height of the presidential election? We know this judge is a member of Hispanic national Bar Association so perhaps this statement by the HNBA sheds light on this:
*
he HNBA calls for a boycott of all of Trump business ventures, including golf courses, hotels, and restaurants. We salute NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s for ending their association with Trump, and we join them in standing up against bigotry and racist rhetoric. Other businesses and corporations should follow the lead of NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s and take similar actions against Donald Trump’s business interests. We can and will make a difference.*

So a judge Who belong to an organization that is on the record promoting hurting Trumps businesses releases confidential trial documents and we are not allowed to question his motives ?
 
Crossbones said:
I’m sorry, but the attack on the judge is racist. If Trump said the judge was incompetent, that would have been fine (not smart though). But he said that he was motivated by his race because Trump is ‘going to build a wall’ and that the judge ‘happens to be, we believe, Mexican’. That’s straight out racist. No Hispanic can judge him because Trump is going to build a wall. And no Muslim can judge him because he’s going to ban Muslims from coming into the country. He hasn’t gotten to women yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s next.

So, you can claim whatever you want to make excuses for Trump’s racist behavior, as people seem like to make excuses for his willingness to torture and his desire to target noncombatants.
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I think Trump should apologise for what he said, but I’m not convinced that he a racist person. If Trump is a racist he should be condemned, but who can judge what is in Trump’s heart except God and on a lesser level maybe those closest to him? He has said some very unfortunate offensive comments in the past, but is he is a racist? As offensive as the comment about Judge Curial was, did he say it because he thinks the Judge is a lesser person because of his ancestry, and that Caucasions are superior?

I think racism is obviously very wrong, and I wouldn’t want to be seen as defending a racist, but I’m not convinced that Trump is a racist, despite his offensiveness and insensitivity.

Hillary and Bill Clinton has also said some things in the past which are I think labelled as racist by some people. Are either of them racists? Trump and the Clintons have made some very unfortunate remarks.

If Trump’s comments are going to be scrutinised on race, ancestry, and they should, then so should the Clintons.
 
estesbob said:
And why would confidential documents obtained by subpoena be released to the New York Times during the height of the presidential election? We know this judge is a member of Hispanic national Bar Association so perhaps this statement by the HNBA sheds light on this:
*
he HNBA calls for a boycott of all of Trump business ventures, including golf courses, hotels, and restaurants. We salute NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s for ending their association with Trump, and we join them in standing up against bigotry and racist rhetoric. Other businesses and corporations should follow the lead of NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s and take similar actions against Donald Trump’s business interests. We can and will make a difference.*

So a judge Who belong to an organization that is on the record promoting hurting Trumps businesses releases confidential trial documents and we are not allowed to question his motives ?
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The only one questioning the integrity of this judge is Donald Trump. Even his lawyers think the judge gave them a break in putting the trial off until after the election. Trump is using the campaign for his own benefit. I guess this is how he plans to deflect the damage done by Hilary’s speech. Judging from the comments from his fellow Republicans, the cheese stands alone.
 
Good_Tidings said:
The only one questioning the integrity of this judge is Donald Trump. Even his lawyers think the judge gave them a break in putting the trial off until after the election. Trump is using the campaign for his own benefit. I guess this is how he plans to deflect the damage done by Hilary’s speech. Judging from the comments from his fellow Republicans, the cheese stands alone.
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So he belongs an organization calling for destroying Donald Trump’s businesses while presiding over a lawsuit attacking one of Donald Trump’s businesses . How can that not be a conflict?
 
estesbob said:
So he belongs an organization calling for destroying Donald Trump’s businesses while presiding over a lawsuit attacking one of Donald Trump’s businesses . How can that not be a conflict?
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Did you get your info from a site called “tiger droppings”? I would be more than happy to read your citations and then comment.
 
_Abyssinia said:
I think Trump should apologise for what he said, but I’m not convinced that he a racist person. If Trump is a racist he should be condemned, but who can judge what is in Trump’s heart except God and on a lesser level maybe those closest to him? He has said some very unfortunate offensive comments in the past, but is he is a racist? As offensive as the comment about Judge Curial was, did he say it because he thinks the Judge is a lesser person because of his ancestry, and that Caucasions are superior?

I think racism is obviously very wrong, and I wouldn’t want to be seen as defending a racist, but I’m not convinced that Trump is a racist, despite his offensiveness and insensitivity.

Hillary and Bill Clinton has also said some things in the past which are I think labelled as racist by some people. Are either of them racists? Trump and the Clintons have made some very unfortunate remarks.

If Trump’s comments are going to be scrutinised on race, ancestry, and they should, then so should the Clintons.
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While we cannot know his hearts, in Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship, it says

‘Other direct assaults on innocent human life, such as genocide, torture, and the targeting of noncombatants in acts of terror or war, can never be justified. Nor can violations
of human dignity, such as acts of racism, treating workers as mere means to an end, deliberately subjecting workers to subhuman living conditions, treating the poor as disposable, or redefining marriage to deny its essential meaning, ever be justified.’

Catholics will have to make a decision on whether or not to vote for Trump without the benefit of God’s insight into his heart. Catholics are called upon to oppose racism and what Trump said (and continues to say) is certainly racist.

As far as the Clintons goes, I don’t recall anything nearly as egregious as what Trump said. They, of course, have other problems on that list quoted from Forming Consciences as well as other issues with Catholic teaching.
 
Mulligan2 said:
Agreed.

I would never want this man to be the face of America to the rest of the world…
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If the following is the “face of the rest of the world”, I don’t think anything Trump says is going to shock them. He would be Pollyanna to them.

“European leaders, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel, French President Francois Hollande, Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, Liechtenstein Prime Minister Adrian Hasler, and Austrian Chancellor Christian Kern took part in the opening of the world’s longest tunnel, running 57 km under the Swiss Alps. The historic event was overshadowed by the opening ceremonies which contained blatantly satanic and graphically sexual overtones.”
 
Trump suspects bias on the part of a judge who is on a committee that raises scholarships for illegals and calls itself “The Race” and who opened plaintiffs’ evidence to the Dem party, knowing full well that it would be used politicially and potentially taint a jury.

On the other hand there is Clinton who supports the killing of a million children per year.

And some think the Catholic Church thinks the first is even remotely equivalent to the second? No Catholic Pope or bishop says that, and none will. Catholics should resist the appeals to moral relativism. That’s a protestant thing, not Catholic.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Trump suspects bias on the part of a judge who is on a committee that raises scholarships for illegals and calls itself “The Race” and who opened plaintiffs’ evidence to the Dem party, knowing full well that it would be used politicially and potentially taint a jury.

On the other hand there is Clinton who supports the killing of a million children per year.

And some think the Catholic Church thinks the first is even remotely equivalent to the second? No Catholic Pope or bishop says that, and none will. Catholics should resist the appeals to moral relativism. That’s a protestant thing, not Catholic.
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So why don’t his lawyers address this? Of course, they may get a judge that might move up the proceedings.
 
Good_Tidings said:
Are you saying that because he belongs to an organization that advocates for Hispanics in the legal profession, that he cannot remain neutral on a matter before him in court?
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Did you read the press release. Let me post it again:

The HNBA calls for a boycott of all of Trump business ventures, including golf courses, hotels, and restaurants. We salute NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s for ending their association with Trump, and we join them in standing up against bigotry and racist rhetoric. Other businesses and corporations should follow the lead of NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s and take similar actions against Donald Trump’s business interests. We can and will make a difference.

He belongs to an organization that calls him a bigot and promotes boycotting his businesses. That would , in my mind, raise serious questions about the judges impartiality especially in light of him releasing confidential trial documents to the press.
 
estesbob said:
They have asked him to recuse himself-he refused.
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Really?

Alison Frankel
Why Trump lawyers won’t ask Trump University judge to step aside
By Alison Frankel
June 6, 2016
s:
DONALD TRUMP | TRUMP UNIVERSITY
(Reuters) – There is a curious disconnect between what the presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump says in public about the judge overseeing two class actions claiming Trump University was a swindle and what Trump’s lawyers do in court.
The candidate, as you know, has suggested that U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel of San Diego is biased against him because Curiel – an Indiana native whose parents were immigrants from Mexico – disapproves of Trump’s immigration policies. Despite criticism of his commentsfrom luminaries in his own party, Trump has refused to back down, calling the judge’s heritage “an absolute conflict” in an interview last week with the Wall Street Journal.
But in court, where the Trump University litigation has been plodding along since 2010, there has been nary a suggestion that Judge Curiel should be removed from the case – not for his Mexican roots or for any other reason. And no matter what Trump says, his defense lawyers atO’Melveny & Myers are exceedingly unlikely to file a motion asking the judge to step aside, or recuse himself, based on what we know today.
In fact, if O’Melveny were to file a recusal motion, according to two law professors and three private lawyers specializing in legal ethics, Trump’s lawyers would expose themselves to sanctions under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and to discipline by state bar associations.
As many, many legal experts have opined in the past few days, a federal judge’s ethnicity or national origin cannot serve as the basis for a claim of judicial bias. The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, for instance, held in its 1998 opinion in MacDraw Inc v. CIT Group that U.S. District Judge Denny Chin (now on the appeals court) was within his rights to sanction two lawyers who asked whether his Asian ancestry prejudiced him against them. (They were involved in completely separate litigation against an Asian fundraiser for President Bill Clinton, who appointed Chin.) “Courts have repeatedly held that matters such as race or ethnicity are improper bases for challenging a judge’s impartiality,” the 2nd Circuit said. Added Alexandra Lahav, who specializes in legal ethics at the University of Connecticut: “There is no basis in the law or our legal history. It’s antithetical to the rule of law.”
Trump has a First Amendment right to express his opinion of the Trump University proceedings, which have certainly not gone the way he and his lawyers would have liked. Judge Curiel has certified two class actions, one against Trump himself, by consumers who claim the real estate seminars were nothing but a high-pressure sales scheme. Plaintiffs’ lawyers at Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd have even persuaded the judge to allow them to pursue a racketeering claim, which carries treble damages, against Trump. Most recently, the judge unsealed a trove of documents revealing the sales secrets of the now-shuttered Trump University operation, as well as testimony in which some former students and instructors described the program as a fraud. (Trump maintains that the vast majority of those who attended the seminars were satisfied with the program and that critics were simply disgruntled former employees.)
Outside of court, Trump can say just about whatever he wants about the case without much risk of being held accountable. It might be another story if the candidate were to express contempt for Judge Curiel or the proceeding inside the judge’s courtroom, but so far, Trump has not made accusations to Curiel’s face.
Nor are the candidate’s lawyers responsible in court for what their client says about the judge outside of the courtroom. The American Bar Association’s model rules of professional conduct explicitly say that representing a client does not mean a lawyer endorses the client’s “political, economic, social or moral views or activities.” Ethics adviser Thomas Mason of Harris Wiltshire & Grannis said lawyers generally do not face sanctions for what their clients say – and that goes double when the client is running for president. “How easy do you think it would be for any lawyer at any firm to control what Mr. Trump says?” Mason asked.
If, however, O’Melveny were to accuse Judge Curiel of bias in a filing that cited only his heritage as evidence, according to legal ethics experts, the firm could be accused of bringing a frivolous motion, according to Mark Foster of Zuckerman Spaeder and Barry Cohen of Crowell & Moring, who counsel law firms on professional responsibility. The rules for civil suits in federal courts prohibit lawyers from filing motions they know to be without merit – and legal experts say O’Melveny ought to know they cannot ask for Judge Curiel to recuse himself simply because of his Mexican roots. (Typically, recusal motions in federal court cite a judge’s financial interest in the outcome of the case or the involvement of a friend or family member of the judge.)
“There won’t be a recusal motion,” said Stephen Gillers, a law professor at New York University. “The repercussions of a motion based on the judge’s Mexican heritage would be too harsh. No law firm would do that.”
blogs.reuters.com/alison-frankel/2016/06/06/why-trump-lawyers-wont-ask-trump-university-judge-to-step-aside/
 
estesbob said:
Did you read the press release. Let me post it again:

The HNBA calls for a boycott of all of Trump business ventures, including golf courses, hotels, and restaurants. We salute NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s for ending their association with Trump, and we join them in standing up against bigotry and racist rhetoric. Other businesses and corporations should follow the lead of NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s and take similar actions against Donald Trump’s business interests. We can and will make a difference.

He belongs to an organization that calls him a bigot and promotes boycotting his businesses. That would , in my mind, raise serious questions about the judges impartiality especially in light of him releasing confidential trial documents to the press.
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So your answer is Yes? Why aren’t his lawyers objecting to releasing “confidential” information?
 
Good_Tidings said:
Really?

Alison Frankel
Why Trump lawyers won’t ask Trump University judge to step aside
By Alison Frankel
June 6, 2016
s:
DONALD TRUMP | TRUMP UNIVERSITY
(Reuters) – There is a curious disconnect between what the presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump says in public about the judge overseeing two class actions claiming Trump University was a swindle and what Trump’s lawyers do in court.
The candidate, as you know, has suggested that U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel of San Diego is biased against him because Curiel – an Indiana native whose parents were immigrants from Mexico – disapproves of Trump’s immigration policies. Despite criticism of his commentsfrom luminaries in his own party, Trump has refused to back down, calling the judge’s heritage “an absolute conflict” in an interview last week with the Wall Street Journal.
But in court, where the Trump University litigation has been plodding along since 2010, there has been nary a suggestion that Judge Curiel should be removed from the case – not for his Mexican roots or for any other reason. And no matter what Trump says, his defense lawyers atO’Melveny & Myers are exceedingly unlikely to file a motion asking the judge to step aside, or recuse himself, based on what we know today.
In fact, if O’Melveny were to file a recusal motion, according to two law professors and three private lawyers specializing in legal ethics, Trump’s lawyers would expose themselves to sanctions under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and to discipline by state bar associations.
As many, many legal experts have opined in the past few days, a federal judge’s ethnicity or national origin cannot serve as the basis for a claim of judicial bias. The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, for instance, held in its 1998 opinion in MacDraw Inc v. CIT Group that U.S. District Judge Denny Chin (now on the appeals court) was within his rights to sanction two lawyers who asked whether his Asian ancestry prejudiced him against them. (They were involved in completely separate litigation against an Asian fundraiser for President Bill Clinton, who appointed Chin.) “Courts have repeatedly held that matters such as race or ethnicity are improper bases for challenging a judge’s impartiality,” the 2nd Circuit said. Added Alexandra Lahav, who specializes in legal ethics at the University of Connecticut: “There is no basis in the law or our legal history. It’s antithetical to the rule of law.”
Trump has a First Amendment right to express his opinion of the Trump University proceedings, which have certainly not gone the way he and his lawyers would have liked. Judge Curiel has certified two class actions, one against Trump himself, by consumers who claim the real estate seminars were nothing but a high-pressure sales scheme. Plaintiffs’ lawyers at Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd have even persuaded the judge to allow them to pursue a racketeering claim, which carries treble damages, against Trump. Most recently, the judge unsealed a trove of documents revealing the sales secrets of the now-shuttered Trump University operation, as well as testimony in which some former students and instructors described the program as a fraud. (Trump maintains that the vast majority of those who attended the seminars were satisfied with the program and that critics were simply disgruntled former employees.)
Outside of court, Trump can say just about whatever he wants about the case without much risk of being held accountable. It might be another story if the candidate were to express contempt for Judge Curiel or the proceeding inside the judge’s courtroom, but so far, Trump has not made accusations to Curiel’s face.
Nor are the candidate’s lawyers responsible in court for what their client says about the judge outside of the courtroom. The American Bar Association’s model rules of professional conduct explicitly say that representing a client does not mean a lawyer endorses the client’s “political, economic, social or moral views or activities.” Ethics adviser Thomas Mason of Harris Wiltshire & Grannis said lawyers generally do not face sanctions for what their clients say – and that goes double when the client is running for president. “How easy do you think it would be for any lawyer at any firm to control what Mr. Trump says?” Mason asked.
If, however, O’Melveny were to accuse Judge Curiel of bias in a filing that cited only his heritage as evidence, according to legal ethics experts, the firm could be accused of bringing a frivolous motion, according to Mark Foster of Zuckerman Spaeder and Barry Cohen of Crowell & Moring, who counsel law firms on professional responsibility. The rules for civil suits in federal courts prohibit lawyers from filing motions they know to be without merit – and legal experts say O’Melveny ought to know they cannot ask for Judge Curiel to recuse himself simply because of his Mexican roots. (Typically, recusal motions in federal court cite a judge’s financial interest in the outcome of the case or the involvement of a friend or family member of the judge.)
“There won’t be a recusal motion,” said Stephen Gillers, a law professor at New York University. “The repercussions of a motion based on the judge’s Mexican heritage would be too harsh. No law firm would do that.”
blogs.reuters.com/alison-frankel/2016/06/06/why-trump-lawyers-wont-ask-trump-university-judge-to-step-aside/
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They had asked previously to recuse himself before this kerpuffle erupted… this article is talking about whether they should ask again
 
Crossbones said:
While we cannot know his hearts, in Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship, it says

‘Other direct assaults on innocent human life, such as genocide, torture, and the targeting of noncombatants in acts of terror or war, can never be justified. Nor can violations
of human dignity, such as acts of racism, treating workers as mere means to an end, deliberately subjecting workers to subhuman living conditions, treating the poor as disposable, or redefining marriage to deny its essential meaning, ever be justified.’

Catholics will have to make a decision on whether or not to vote for Trump without the benefit of God’s insight into his heart. Catholics are called upon to oppose racism and what Trump said (and continues to say) is certainly racist.

As far as the Clintons goes, I don’t recall anything nearly as egregious as what Trump said. They, of course, have other problems on that list quoted from Forming Consciences as well as other issues with Catholic teaching.
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Bill Clinton made this remark during the 2008 presidential campaign regarding Barack Obama, “A few years ago, this guy would have been carrying our bags.”

Bernie Sanders said a comment Hillary Clinton used was a “racist term”: thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/276403-sanders-hits-clinton-superpredator-was-a-racist-term

There was the controversy over Clinton in a skit: thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/hillary-clinton-bill-de-blasio-colored-people-time-racial-joke-skit-racist

And the apology from Clinton for the comment regarding Ghandi: nbcnews.com/id/3890946/ns/us_news-life/t/clinton-regrets-gandhi-joke/

The Ghandi comment and the skit may have just been insensitive choices, not racist, but controversy has occurred.

Judge these things for yourself.

There has also been various accusations of racism in the Clinton campaign in 2008 towards Barack Obama from left-wing websites.
 
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