"Don't Ask Don't Tell" Military Policy

[Newbie2]

Civilian jobs and what the military has to do are two different things. I do not have to be a ‘band of brothers’ with my co-workers—you have to have each others’ back.

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exactomundo. Very few civilian jobs incorporate situations where co-workers shower together.

 

[GeorgeSword]

exactomundo. Very few civilian jobs incorporate situations where co-workers shower together.

Athletics comes to mind. But if it is showering you wish to discuss, should we stop allowing gays into prisons so they won’t be shower with the other inmates?

 

[jrgiancola]

I agree with you baylee. As an employer, it’s none of my business who my employees sleep with.

 

[michaeldaniels]

I am sorry, but in regards to this, the best thing for them is to not allow them…it would be more humane for them…unless you feel ok allowing them and having them alienated, mistreated, and eventually driven out…you are talking about an entirely different way of life that many of you are not familiar with…I am not going to tell you what my level of involvement has been in the past with certain MOS’s in the military…but I will tell you that all of the guys I know are openly opposed to the idea and not only would it destroy unit cohesiveness…you would probably lose some of your best people and prevent some good candidates from joining…on top of that, it would be open season on these homosexuals and believe you me, if someone is not wanted, there are ways to make them leave…by the book. These people don’t stand a chance and it more charitable in my opinion to not subject them to what would happen…not to mention how it would destroy what is already in place and working well.

From the Catechism:

*The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. **They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. ***These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

I’m betting that the Church would want this policy repealed.

 

[Newbie2]

Athletics comes to mind. But if it is showering you wish to discuss, should we stop allowing gays into prisons so they won’t be shower with the other inmates?

Yes, Athletes are what I had in mind when I wrote “very few”. There are probably other jobs where such is sort of a requirement.

Ummmmm…incarceration is mandatory; military service is not. Not a good comparison. The point is, as you seem to grasp, that allowing someone who is attracted to people of the same sex and allowing them to see and interact with others in a “nude” setting hasn’t been considered to be a good idea for morale in the military…and it’s not just the showering. Living and working in such close quarters would seem to be a unique work environment without too many comparisons in the working world.

Personally, I don’t care either way if openly gay folks are allowed in the military, but if those who’ve served and the military brass are against it for seemingly legitimate reasons, I tend to side with them, never having served myself. The question is, are those stated reasons legitimate, and we cannot compare military service to the average everyday work world in order to judge such legitimacy.

The other consideration is that military service is not a right and is not mandatory.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Good Post…I have a question for all the proponents of this total debacle…Where can I find a job that would force women to work with me and then due to necessity require that we shower together? NO WHERE. Why not? It is the same thing…If you are for gays in the military, are you also for women being forced to allow men to shower with them at their workplace?

Yes, Athletes are what I had in mind when I wrote “very few”. There are probably other jobs where such is sort of a requirement.

Ummmmm…incarceration is mandatory; military service is not. Not a good comparison. The point is, as you seem to grasp, that allowing someone who is attracted to people of the same sex and allowing them to see and interact with others in a “nude” setting hasn’t been considered to be a good idea for morale in the military…and it’s not just the showering. Living and working in such close quarters would seem to be a unique work environment without too many comparisons in the working world.

Personally, I don’t care either way if openly gay folks are allowed in the military, but if those who’ve served and the military brass are against it for seemingly legitimate reasons, I tend to side with them, never having served myself. The question is, are those stated reasons legitimate, and we cannot compare military service to the average everyday work world in order to judge such legitimacy.

The other consideration is that military service is not a right and is not mandatory.

 

[camerong]

As I said in my above post–that no one seemed able or willing to respond to–is that we need to work as hard as possible to embrace all people, whether homosexual or not. That does not mean that we should embrace homosexual sex, which is a sin.

All of the other objections here are nonsense. Is showering really that serious of a problem? I never showered right next to another male in the military. Not in basic, not after. And if that is the main problem, the benefit of having thousands of badly needed Arabic interpreters who happen to be gay far outweighs the cost of individual showers.

How is it that a gay person–who fights his urges–can’t be a battle buddy like a straight person? Recall that homosexuals are allowed in the military today, they just cannot be open about it. I strongly suspect one of my closest friends throughout much of my time was a homosexual, though of course he never told me. Did I still completely trust him, even with my life? Of course.

 

[hellopeople]

The question is whether or not this is unjust discrimination.

As for the job analogy, I think I’d be okay in not hiring gay people unless they were celibate gay people, sort of like not hiring fornicators.

I guess you shouldn’t hire about 95% of the people that are unmarried then…

 

[Newbie2]

I guess you shouldn’t hire about 95% of the people that are unmarried then…

Well, then there’s the matter of “openly unmarried fornicators” or “closet married fornicators”.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Your military experience sounds much different than mine…but that is beside the point. As the way the current system stands, people are private about their sexuality and therefore there are not any flamboyant gays parading around and causing strife…and also your point is moot, because if they were celebant and refused to live the lifestyle they are attracted to, then they wouldn’t advertise any way…therefore the result is the same…it is an unknown and you deal with what you know…these are people you have to trust implicity with your life…there is no time for other concerns or worries…however, you remove that barrier, then you will start seeing the flamboyant, flaming ones cry for a “rainbow beret” battalion, special insignia to show their pride, etc…it is sick but a real possibility. Also, why do you assume that only gays…or should I say that by allowing gays will allow us to feel the need for soldiers with language skills, i.e. arabic?

As I said in my above post–that no one seemed able or willing to respond to–is that we need to work as hard as possible to embrace all people, whether homosexual or not. That does not mean that we should embrace homosexual sex, which is a sin.

All of the other objections here are nonsense. Is showering really that serious of a problem? I never showered right next to another male in the military. Not in basic, not after. And if that is the main problem, the benefit of having thousands of badly needed Arabic interpreters who happen to be gay far outweighs the cost of individual showers.

How is it that a gay person–who fights his urges–can’t be a battle buddy like a straight person? Recall that homosexuals are allowed in the military today, they just cannot be open about it. I strongly suspect one of my closest friends throughout much of my time was a homosexual, though of course he never told me. Did I still completely trust him, even with my life? Of course.

 

[Lauds]

There have been gays in the military for ever, I have known many gay men who have served nobly in the military, even a few career military men too., THey had no problem , they served well, its a few of the supposedly heterosexuals, who are not sure of their own sexuality , who would probably protest the loudest. Why should it matter to anyone what anyone else does sexually as long as it isn`t affecting them. It makes no sense to me, if they are doing their job well, let them be. However, there is not much Christian Charity in this world, which causes more problems than gays in the military. Another thing I heard about three weeks ago was, if all the Homosexuals in the Catholic Church who made it up through the ranks would suddenly come out, the Church would collapse. These people are THROUGHOUT our society, & always will be, & many many of them have done some very good things. God made them for a purpose, that he alone knows, there are too many of them & they have been recorded throughout history

 

[michaeldaniels]

God is all good…he doesn’t create anything that isn’t good. God created man on the 6th day with the beast…however he was created for the 7th day…and our lives on this earth are meant for us to choose God above all things and move from the 6th day, to the 7th day and enter into God’s rest…eternally with Him in Heaven. He created us all good with free will. Homosexuality is an intrinsic, disordered evil…God didn’t create people homosexuals…they chose that selfish, hedonistic lifestyle themselves.

There have been gays in the military for ever, I have known many gay men who have served nobly in the military, even a few career military men too., THey had no problem , they served well, its a few of the supposedly heterosexuals, who are not sure of their own sexuality , who would probably protest the loudest. Why should it matter to anyone what anyone else does sexually as long as it isn`t affecting them. It makes no sense to me, if they are doing their job well, let them be. However, there is not much Christian Charity in this world, which causes more problems than gays in the military. Another thing I heard about three weeks ago was, if all the Homosexuals in the Catholic Church who made it up through the ranks would suddenly come out, the Church would collapse. These people are THROUGHOUT our society, & always will be, & many many of them have done some very good things. God made them for a purpose, that he alone knows, there are too many of them & they have been recorded throughout history

 

[Lauds]

God is all good…he doesn’t create anything that isn’t good. God created man on the 6th day with the beast…however he was created for the 7th day…and our lives on this earth are meant for us to choose God above all things and move from the 6th day, to the 7th day and enter into God’s rest…eternally with Him in Heaven. He created us all good with free will. Homosexuality is an intrinsic, disordered evil…God didn’t create people homosexuals…they chose that selfish, hedonistic lifestyle themselves.

God created Homosexuals & heterosexuals & all things in between, God is the author & creator of all, & everything he created like You say is good

 

[doanli]

I really need to pray on this in case I am in error. Because…

Some of the nicest people I have ever met in my life were gay men. (including the best boss I ever had).

 

[Lauds]

I really need to pray on this in case I am in error. Because…

Some of the nicest people I have ever met in my life were gay men. (including the best boss I ever had).

I agree, Some of the finest people I ever met were people with same sex attraction. Met many horrible heterosexuals tho.

 

[michaeldaniels]

God created Man in “His Image”…God is not gay. He created us perfectly and it is OUR choices that make us who we are…If someone is a thief, it is because they chose to steal…if someone is a liar, it is because they chose to lie…if someone is uncharitable, it is because they chose to be mean…and if someone is gay, it is because they made the choice to be that way…it is an abomination and a grave sin. It is our choices that makes us who we are…we are expected to be perfect, just like The Father is perfect…I am not disputing that God isn’t the author of everything…because He is…however, once those souls are created and take flesh, they have free will…they make their own choices, right or wrong

God created Homosexuals & heterosexuals & all things in between, God is the author & creator of all, & everything he created like You say is good

 

[hellopeople]

God created Man in “His Image”…God is not gay. He created us perfectly and it is OUR choices that make us who we are…If someone is a thief, it is because they chose to steal…if someone is a liar, it is because they chose to lie…if someone is uncharitable, it is because they chose to be mean…and if someone is gay, it is because they made the choice to be that way…it is an abomination and a grave sin. It is our choices that makes us who we are…we are expected to be perfect, just like The Father is perfect…I am not disputing that God isn’t the author of everything…because He is…however, once those souls are created and take flesh, they have free will…they make their own choices, right or wrong

I don’t buy this. I think that God made some people gay. Do you think people just make the decision “you know, I think I am going to be attracted to guys and not girls.” No, they don’t make that decision, it is within them.

 

[Newbie2]

There have been gays in the military for ever, I have known many gay men who have served nobly in the military, even a few career military men too., THey had no problem , they served well, its a few of the supposedly heterosexuals, who are not sure of their own sexuality , who would probably protest the loudest. Why should it matter to anyone what anyone else does sexually as long as it isn`t affecting them. It makes no sense to me, if they are doing their job well, let them be. However, there is not much Christian Charity in this world, which causes more problems than gays in the military. Another thing I heard about three weeks ago was, if all the Homosexuals in the Catholic Church who made it up through the ranks would suddenly come out, the Church would collapse. These people are THROUGHOUT our society, & always will be, & many many of them have done some very good things. God made them for a purpose, that he alone knows, there are too many of them & they have been recorded throughout history

What do you mean by “made it up through the ranks”?

 

[Lauds]

What do you mean by “made it up through the ranks”?

Priests, Bishops Cardinals etc . The high ranking officials of The Church

 

[nlm]

God created Man in “His Image”…God is not gay. He created us perfectly and it is OUR choices that make us who we are…If someone is a thief, it is because they chose to steal…if someone is a liar, it is because they chose to lie…if someone is uncharitable, it is because they chose to be mean…and if someone is gay, it is because they made the choice to be that way…it is an abomination and a grave sin. It is our choices that makes us who we are…we are expected to be perfect, just like The Father is perfect…I am not disputing that God isn’t the author of everything…because He is…however, once those souls are created and take flesh, they have free will…they make their own choices, right or wrong

Do you remember the day you chose to be sexually attracted to women ( assuming you are )? I can’t either.That’s because we are born that way we did not choose that inner most sexual attraction. Please don’t compare a fundamental need such as our sexuality to a vice such as being a thief or a liar.God bless NLM