"Don't follow the Commandments"

[VARC]

Great, so…if you understand and agree with Catholicism then why aren’t you a Catholic?

First I do consider myself a catholic just not a Roman catholic. And I understand Roman Catholicism better than you do apparently (bc you didn’t know the RCCs teaching on justification by grace alone) and it has caused me to reject many the teachings of the Vatican. Perhaps if you took more time to study the teachings of your own church instead of preaching ignorance form your internet pulpit your views might change as well.

 

[BrianH]

Why do you say that I’m “angry”?

Is It because I disagree with you and a few others here, or is it because, I will defend myself and my faith?

What makes you believe that I’m here to convert anyone?

Is that why you are here, to try to pull Catholics away from their faith?

I don’t post on non-Catholic sites.

If you go back and look at my threads, you will see that I am rarley the top poster on any of my threads. I simply ask questions and start conversations…Generally the more I am attacked, personally, the more I post, otherwise, I try to stay on topic and limit my imput.

I read these forums quite a bit more than I post. It is one of three Christian sites I enjoy reading.
Whether you know it or not Jimmy, you do not defend your faith. Most of your posts attack Protestants. There are exceptions, like your recent “The Bible is a Catholic book”. Read your own titles, you are an attacker. I also post on these sites but usually only threads defending my beliefs when they are attacked.

 

[Jimmy_B]

First I do consider myself a catholic just not a Roman catholic. And I understand Roman Catholicism better than you do apparently (bc you didn’t know the RCCs teaching on justification by grace alone) and it has caused me to reject many the teachings of the Vatican. Perhaps if you took more time to study the teachings of your own church instead of preaching ignorance form your internet pulpit your views might change as well.

Are you trying to confuse people here? “Justification” and “Salvation” are two different things all-to-gather and being “saved by grace alone” is not the same as “justified by grace”.

One belief is Protestant and the other is Catholic.

I suggest you read the CCC, if you are going to pretend to be a non-catholic, who is supposedly an expert on Catholicism.

Please try again thank you

 

[Jimmy_B]

I read these forums quite a bit more than I post. It is one of three Christian sites I enjoy reading.
Whether you know it or not Jimmy, you do not defend your faith. Most of your posts attack Protestants. There are exceptions, like your recent “The Bible is a Catholic book”. Read your own titles, you are an attacker. I also post on these sites but usually only threads defending my beliefs when they are attacked.

Hello BrianH,

I wonder if you would feel any different, If I were a Methodist, on a Methodist forum and I argued against Catholicism? If you know how to best defend the Catholic Church, why don’t you come over to our side and show me how? The first, best way, to defend Catholicism is to be a Catholic…right?

Thank you for your post

Peace

 

[BrianH]

Hello BrianH,

I wonder if you would feel any different, If I were a Methodist, on a Methodist forum and argued against Catholicism?

Peace

I am trying to wrap my brain around your analogy
I am too confused to do it:blush:
Yes I think you are saying that you get tired of people bashing your beliefs? I think you will find that not to be the case for the most part around here. By and large, the only truly agressive Protestant threads are usually from hit and run and quickly get banned posters.
You spend a lot of time ticking off the moderates like OS Luke and so forth with your threads. People who are probably inclined to DEFEND Catholics on other boards I bet…just my opinion…
If you are wanting to fight, and only you really know what kind of responses you really like, you are getting what you want. Seems to me.

 

[VARC]

Are you trying to confuse people here? “Justification” and “Salvation” are two different things all-to-gather and being “saved by grace alone” is not the same as “justified by grace”.

One belief is Protestant and the other is Catholic.

I suggest you read the CCC, if you are going to pretend to be a non-catholic, who is supposedly an expert on Catholicism.

Please try again thank you

Justification and salvation are so closely linked the terms are interchangable. For example, anyone who is justified is or will be saved. Nobody who is saved or will be saved isn’t also justified as well. The RCC teaches that men are justified and saved not by any merits of the individual but entirely by the grace of God. The only disagreement between the Roman and Reformed positions is whether God bestows merit on the works of a man or only his faith. You really need to learn more about this before you pontificate to others about it.

I’m not an expert but I knew that the RCC teaches salvation by grace alone unlike you being that you were a pelagian heretic until a few hours ago. I’m glad I could school you in your own religion. Maybe now you won’t sound so ignorant when you try to make straw men arguments.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Justification and salvation are so closely linked the terms are interchangable…

“the terms are interchangable”

Maybe in your non-Catholic, Protestant denomination they are intercahngeable …See, I knew you were trying to confuse people here.

I see this all the time here, Protestants trying to convince people that thier religions are more “Catholic” than they actually are.

There is a rude, non-Christian dishonesty to your posts.

“Intercahngeable”, your funny. Your credibility as an “expert” on Catholicism is about…zero at this point

Moreover, why do you insist on linking me, a Catholic, to a heresy, which occurred 1200 years before the existence of any Protestant denomination? This reminds me of some other “smart” posters here have tried to use quotes from Catholic, Doctors of the Church, to try to disprove Catholicism. :banghead:

Don’t stop trying though.

 

[BrianH]

“the terms are interchangable”

Maybe in your non-Catholic, Protestant denomination they are intercahngeable …See, I knew you were trying to confuse people here.

I see this all the time here, Protestants trying to convince people that thier religions are more “Catholic” than they actually are.

There is a rude, non-Christian dishonesty to your posts.

“Intercahngeable”, your funny. Your credibility as an “expert” on Catholicism is about…zero at this point

Moreover, why do you insist on linking me, a Catholic, to a heresy, which occurred 1200 years before the existence of any Protestant denomination? This reminds me of some other “smart” posters here have tried to use quotes from Catholic, Doctors of the Church, to try to disprove Catholicism. :banghead:

Don’t stop trying though.

For people following this, I think you will find this link helpful

cuf.org/Faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=86

VARC condensed the essentials of the argument fairly well although his/her tone is wrong.

 

[VARC]

[Moreover, why do you insist on linking me, a Catholic, to a heresy, which occurred 1200 years before the existence of any Protestant denomination?.[/SIZE

If you reject that christians a saved by grace alone you are a semi-Pelagian heretic. You’re OP of this thread exposes you as a semipelagian heretic or an ignorant roman catholic. So which are you?
[/quote]

 

[VARC]

For people following this, I think you will find this link helpful

cuf.org/Faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=86

VARC condensed the essentials of the argument fairly well although his/her tone is wrong.

I apologize for my tone. I’ve seen Jimmy B start many threads that mischaracterize the religious beliefs of others. When I saw him do it again (and this time he unknowingly was mocking his own church’s teaching) I jumped on it. I apologize again and I’ll back off now.

 

[Jimmy_B]

If you…are you?

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/BDX/BDX117/not-listening_~bxp27074.jpg

 

[Syele]

protestant theology of the “three solas” really makes our personal behavior separate from our faith,
…
Protestants do not have the understanding of venial/mortal sins that Catholics have so often times they take liberties with it, …It’s like a liberation theology to have carte blanche, do as you will, and still get the prize.

why DO we need commandments or even the Gospels if we’re saved already by mere faith with no real hard demands on living the Gospels?

(sorry I snipped so much ran out of post characters)

Do Catholics really do anything without a reward or Punishment tied to it? IS it not worth doing if you don’t get out of hell for it or get into some reward for it? Why cant we just do things out of pure LOVE for God? I know you SAY you do but these sorts of arguments against Protestants really make me wonder! If there were no hell, would you go out and break all the 10 commandments just cause you could? Do you only fear God and have no love and respect for Him?

True Faith in God means to Love Him. And we obey out of respect and love and awe of God. Fear of Hell is not necessary for good works.

WHY should one care coming from that mode of thinking that faith overrides all of our works anyway?

Why should we care? Because we LOVE. And we know that we could not love without God, cause He is Love!

Why did Jesus give us so many admonishments, warnings, and outlines for our daily behavior if our faith overrides those admonishments?

I give my Daughter many admonishments, warnings, and outlines for her daily behavior . Every day I remind her to brush her teeth and hair. I homeschool her and insist she do her school work daily. I make her do chores. I warn her of danger “Do not go in the road without looking both ways! Use the crosswalk!” If she chooses to disobey me, i will not be happy. She will get hurt or rotten teeth or cause others problems. I will be sad that she got hurt, even if it was her fault. Even if she disobeys all these things, she will still be my daughter. I might discipline her but I will not stop feeding her. I will definitely not stop loving her. I will not cast her onto the street to fend for herself. I will keep teaching her, keep admonishing her, she is my daughter no matter what!

It is possible that she could disown me. She could run away. She could decide to live on the street and fend for herself, I would be heartbroken, but many kids have done it before, it is not unheard of. I would try to pull her back but in the end it would be her decision.

Scriptures tell us God takes us into His Family as adopted sons and Daughters. He did not take us in as employees to do His bidding, to be fired for messing up. He takes us in as children and dusts us off, loves us, guides us and teaches us. Yes there are warnings and admonishments! That is a normal thing for a loving parent to do! Yes there are earthly consequences for our wrong actions, but we are not left to hell till we see the error of our ways… Like the lost Sheep He comes after us to bring us back. God does not want to see us harm ourselves.

I do not believe in OSAS. A Child of God can also run away, and we can run to a point where God will not force us to return. BUT people who do believe in OSAS will only believe that God did not bring into the Family people whom He knew in advance (By being All knowing) that they would run away and never return if brought in, in the first place.

Either way Children love and obey their parents for many more reasons than out of fear of abandonment if they disobey. If my Daughter refuses to brush her teeth I do not say “Ok you have chosen to live alone in the street with no food, you may come back home only if you say you are sorry and brush them from now on!” And then the neighbor kid does not say “What?!? You don’t get abandoned for not brushing teeth? You only get in a bit of trouble? Sheesh you should just do what ever you feel like from now on!” Yeah. sounds silly put that way huh?

See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. And every one who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. (1 John 3:1-3) For I through the law died to the law, that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. (Galatians 2:19-20)

“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.”
Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
(Hebrews 12:5-11)

If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children: how much more will your Father who is in heaven, give good things to them that ask him?
(Matthew 7:11)

 

[Jimmy_B]

"Don’t Follow the Commandments”

“Don’t Follow the Commandments”; “Don’t get married”; Don’t go to Church", "Don’t baptize your children and so on and so on…

If you believe that you are “Saved by Grace Alone” then none of the above applies to you…right?

This is especially true for those who are “Once Saved Always Saved” (OSAS)…right?

Your Thoughts?

 

[reteeks21]

“the terms are interchangable”

Maybe in your non-Catholic, Protestant denomination they are intercahngeable …See, I knew you were trying to confuse people here.

I see this all the time here, Protestants trying to convince people that thier religions are more “Catholic” than they actually are.

There is a rude, non-Christian dishonesty to your posts.

“Intercahngeable”, your funny. Your credibility as an “expert” on Catholicism is about…zero at this point

Moreover, why do you insist on linking me, a Catholic, to a heresy, which occurred 1200 years before the existence of any Protestant denomination? This reminds me of some other “smart” posters here have tried to use quotes from Catholic, Doctors of the Church, to try to disprove Catholicism. :banghead:

Don’t stop trying though.

I find it humorous how you get defensive when others point out your rudeness. You seem to be the one that starts the threads that lead to some protestants making claims against the catholic church that may be un-true. In essence, you are the problem. You’re pretty juvenile, too. Making a childish video mocking two people who agree on how you are treating others is just plain stupid. Is that all you can do? Be a child? You start the fights and then get mad when people come abck at you. Then you hide under “I’m defending my faith” jargon. That’s like punching someone for no reason and then calling the cops because they punched back. You’re not a defender. You’re an instigator. The sooner you and others of your ilk-catholics and protestants alike-stop running your mouths the way you do the better off we all will be.

We can disagree all day long and not bully and intimidate. JonNC and Ralph are great examples of that from both sides of the aisle. Maybe take a lesson from them and stop acting like a 5th grade bully.

 

[Crazy_Diamond]

#72

Jimmy B, is your computer acting up? This is the second of your threads I’ve seen where you’ve apparently just re-posted the OP.

I really, really like #70. It’s definitely you!

 

[Dirk_Skene]

…I don’t blame you for switching stations. Ugh. About two years ago my wife convinced me to fast for Lent - we decided to fast from our addiction to news on the web and radio. We’ve never gone back. …We decided before we got married not to have a TV, so we’ve had even less exposure to that medium of idiocy. …

Good for you :tiphat: And I am NOT being sarcastic :aok: I have stayed away from TV for many years now. Leaves more time for importiant stuff. … like family.

 

[Crazy_Diamond]

Good for you :tiphat: And I am NOT being sarcastic :aok: I have stayed away from TV for many years now. Leaves more time for importiant stuff. … like family.

Agreed. I’m sort of second-generation at this, too. My parents decided not to have a TV, so I grew up without one. Can’t say I felt a gaping hole in my life. My wife tried to get her family to give up their TV, but they weren’t going to listen to a young teenager about something as important as that. It was one area that helped us realize how compatible we were.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

This whole thread bothers me. I’m definitely Catholic and feel strongly it is the one, true Church, but the lack of charity and mean-spirit that I’ve seen in here is something else.

VARC and JimmyB are out of control in here accusing each other of being heretics, there are nasty videos and insinuations flying. Pretty sad spectacle. I don’t think the Catholic or Protestant sides have benefited from this exchange…

 

[Jimmy_B]

…Martin Luther’s “go and sin boldly” statement to Melanchthon, which has become infamous…

Hello gurneyhalleck,

Exactly, this is where I was going with thread. Unfortunately, it is easy to be sidetracked when the name-calling starts. It seems to me that there are many here, who do not know what they actually believe or why they believe it and some here, either reject or do not know the source of their own beliefs and do not care.

Why is that?

One cannot connect the Christian dots…without first connecting the Catholic dots. Moreover, one cannot truly, understand their own beliefs, when they willingly and knowingly, reject Christian history and Christian traditions.

It is because of this attitude that so many here reject Christian truths found in Catholicism.

Thank you for the great post!

Peace

 

[JonNC]

Hello gurneyhalleck,

Exactly, this is where I was going with thread. Unfortunately, it is easy to be sidetracked when the name-calling starts. It seems to me that there are many here, who do not know what they actually believe or why they believe it and some here, either reject or do not know the source of their own beliefs and do not care.

My friends Jimmy and Gurney,
Consider this:

Protestant B says: "Catholics worship Mary
Catholic C says: No, we don’t

Protestant B: Yes you do. You pray to her.
Catholic C: It is not the same kind of prayer.

Catholic C then goes on to patiently explain Dulia, etc.

Protestant B: Say what you want. You still worship Mary.
Catholic C rightly replies: I’ve given you an explanation.

I, and others have explained Luther’s letter to Melancton, and given testimony in other writings by him that clearly shows Luther’s dedication to following God’s commands, confession and absolution, and Sanctification in general.
In light of this, to claim Luther meant otherwise just doesn’t make sense.

Jon