"Don't Join The Church, Go To AA . . ."

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“The Nun” told my co-worker this today. :confused:

So this 24 year old male tells me out of the blue, “I started reading the Bible today.” This caught me totally off guard because he gave NO indication of a desire for anything holy or religious.

The only words which ever came out of his mouth were drugs, alcohol, fights, women, food…

I found out he was having a rough time with his ex-girlfriend and raising their DD.

With no prior religious experience or inclinations, he went out and bought a Bible on a “whim” (i.e. prompting of the Holy Spirit.) More importantly, he began to READ it!

Did I mention that he is not afraid to ask questions? I mean A MILLION of them. Within a week and a half he asked me, “Was Peter the first Pope?”

I said, “Ummmm, yeah???”

He said, “GOOD! I told “Sean” that Peter was the first Pope and I am going to be Catholic.” Then he left before I could say anything. Not to worry, he came back and I invited him to mass.

He had a couple of miraculous experiences. These will be shared in my blog, St. Robert Bellarmine; Controversies & Secrets soon.

Immediately after his first mass, he asked Father about joining the Church. Father was thrilled and gave him the DRE’s contact information.

Today he had his first meeting with “The Nun”… (Yes I am praying for her. No, I don’t know if she wears a habit. Any wagers? I will let you know when I find out.)

Was her advice to go to adoration? or to talk to a priest? or to have his daughter baptized? or to read about St. Augustine? or…?

No. Her advice was, “You need to go to AA. I don’t think we can help you. :confused::confused::confused: Let me talk to Father.” Excuse me, but I thought that the Catholic Church has the answer in the SACRAMENTS!

Any prayers you can offer are greatly appreciated!

Have you had an experience like this? Or do you know someone who has? Any advice is also greatly appreciated!

Thanks and God bless you!

John
 
When I first started working my way back to the Church, I met with a Pastor who told me that since I had so many questions and problems with Church teaching, I should probably look into another denomination. He told me that even though I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic schools through High School, and had the best example of devout Catholic faith with my two parents, I was now an adult and could “pick” the church that would best fit me.

Even in my confusion, I was appalled by his advice. I always knew if I was going to return to God, it would be through the one true Church. His advice only compelled me to continue my search for solid, orthodox counsel.
 
Johnq,

Don’t let that discourage him - take him to a different parish if need be. Don’t just let him “forget” about God or get discouraged.

Catholig
 
Only problem with AA is that it stresses the generic “higher power”. This is fine to introduce the concept of God to someone with no faith. For those already somewhat catechized or with a church background, the suggestion is off-putting and exclusive. It appears to be a lazy or cynical response.

Of course, the support of fellow alcoholics is essential, but the Holy Spirit is the key here. My best friend, three years ago, was addicted to crack cocaine, alcoholic, and lived in an abandoned camper shell off the back of a pickup truck. He was picked up on an outstanding warrant and spent, get this, three days in jail.

He received a vision in his unconsciousness that revealed hell to him. He was defiled by demons. The Lord revealed that this was his eternity unless he repented. In his own words, he was subjected to the refiner’s fire. When he woke up, he was covered with a purple blanket. He sought out a priest and made a tear-filled confession.

LSS: His desire for crack and alcohol were GONE. Cleansed. The Lord helped him rebuild his life. He now is a Eucharistic minister, a minister of the Altar and resembles St. Paul in his zeal to spread the Gospel. He still attends a “club”, but now he seeks out the spiritually lost.

He takes them in, gets them clean and sober and invites them to mass. He preaches the Gospel to them. He calls the fallen away back to faith. I am ashamed by comparison. He is a walking miracle of the Lord.

None of this involved AA, as good as that organization is. Put your faith in God with help from man, not in man with help from God.

Christ’s peace to all.
 
blessedtoo said:
Alcoholics Anonymous
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Why would she dare to send him in there? Is she trying to shut the gates of the Kingdom in his face?

When I hear about these type of people, that verse of Matthew 23 comes to mind. 😦

‘Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You lock the Kingdom of Heaven before men. You do not enter yourselves, nor you do allow entrance to those trying to enter.’

I second the opinion of finding another Parish that can actually help you. Don’t let him be discouraged.
 
I’m sure the priest would be perturbed to find out what the “nun” was preaching and would be sure to let him know.

Alcoholics Anonymous says that those involved with a church have a much better chance of success than those who don’t. Whether it’s good or bad, AA’s use of the term “Higher Power” was to expand the program to include those of other faiths, agnostics and atheists. However, nothing in its twelve steps or underlying principles contradict Christianity or Catholicism. Unfortunately, just like our court system has twisted the constitution, some AA members twist this around to exclude all references to religion, which was certainly not Bill W’s intent when he made the change. Other AA groups, though, are very Christ-centered and devout.

A priest once told me that he thought the reason that AA was able to reach people that he couldn’t reach from the pulpit was that he was using a shotgun approach to teaching Scripture so as to reach as many people as possible whereas AA was taking the same Scripture and using a rifle approach to home in on the spiritual and human problems peculiar to alcoholism. Regardless of the use of the term Higher Power in reference to God, AA stresses the spiritual part of the program and the necessity of involving Him in the recovery process. Part of the program is that God will do for us what we cannot do for ourselves.

The nun’s problem, and that of some posters here, seems to be that of taking an either/or approach. Religion and AA reinforce one another and, in my opinion, your friend is a prime candidate to get involved with both once you get past the obstacle of the nun. Once God gets involved, good things can, and usually do, happen. Good luck and my prayers are with both of you.
 
Her advice was, "You need to go to AA.
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No problem here. AA has met at my parish hall for 40 years.
I don’t think we can help you.
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This is where she is wrong. The Church can and does help alcoholics, through prayer and pastoral counseling - often referring to treatment and/or AA. Our Deacon has AA & Al-anon literature for those who come to him for help.
 
blessedtoo said:
johnq,
Is your friend a self-admitted alcoholic???
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Yes,

He works the second shift (3-11 PM) and would drink heavily after work in his apartment. Then wake up at seven to get his kid.

He has already drastically cut down the alcohol consumption, but looks for “good reasons” to have a drink.

One was buying a 2 liter bottle of wine and some unleaven bread (crackers) to imitate the Holy Eucharist.
 
blessedtoo said:
johnq,
Is your friend a self-admitted alcoholic???
Click to expand...
Yes,

He works the second shift (3-11 PM) and would drink heavily after work in his apartment. Then wake up at seven to get his kid.

He has already drastically cut down the alcohol consumption, but looks for “good reasons” to have a drink.

One was buying a 2 liter bottle of wine and some unleaven bread (crackers) to imitate the Holy Eucharist.
 
DiZent said:
Quote:
Her advice was, "You need to go to AA.
No problem here. AA has met at my parish hall for 40 years.

Quote:
I don’t think we can help you.
This is where she is wrong. The Church can and does help alcoholics, through prayer and pastoral counseling - often referring to treatment and/or AA. Our Deacon has AA & Al-anon literature for those who come to him for help.
.
Click to expand...
She is totally wrong on both accounts, for she can not determine if AA is the right place for him, she is a DRE, not a substance abuse counselor, nor a Doctor. apparently she has no trust in the Church.

AA has no better success rate in helping, then a person who totally on thier own stops drinking and sobers up . It appears he had already decided to stop drinking and wanted to get closer to God. for some one representing the Church tell them to go away from the Church to get closer to God is absurd.

He might need counseling to deal with his past and current problems, but there are no professional counselors at AA.
 
Praying that your friend joins the Church …

:gopray2:

~~ the phoenix
 
Bennie_P said:
She is totally wrong on both accounts, for she can not determine if AA is the right place for him, she is a DRE, not a substance abuse counselor, nor a Doctor. apparently she has no trust in the Church.

**AA has no better success rate in helping, then a person who totally on thier own stops drinking and sobers up **. It appears he had already decided to stop drinking and wanted to get closer to God. for some one representing the Church tell them to go away from the Church to get closer to God is absurd.

He might need counseling to deal with his past and current problems, but there are no professional counselors at AA.
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I am an addictions counselor who does court assessments - I have access to the professional journals and the research doesn’t support your conclusion (highlighted portion). I may have made the same referral - or maybe a treatment program first - depending on the severity of his alcohol dependence, and his level of denial. God can and does heal people from addictions - and I’ve seen evidence of His miracles in the rooms of AA.
 
johnq said:
Yes,

He works the second shift (3-11 PM) and would drink heavily after work in his apartment. Then wake up at seven to get his kid.

He has already drastically cut down the alcohol consumption, but looks for “good reasons” to have a drink.

One was buying a 2 liter bottle of wine and some unleaven bread (crackers) to imitate the Holy Eucharist.
Click to expand...
If he is asking for help with his alcoholism, then he should be directed to AA, but not to the exclusion of joining the Church! He can certainly do both.

If he is not willing to go to AA but willing to join the Catholic Church, then I think he should be encourage in this desire. It is certainly possible that he might join the Church and, through the graces he receives through the Sacraments, find the courage to get help for his alcoholism.
 
DiZent said:
I am an addictions counselor who does court assessments - I have access to the professional journals and the research doesn’t support your conclusion (highlighted portion). I may have made the same referral - or maybe a treatment program first - depending on the severity of his alcohol dependence, and his level of denial. God can and does heal people from addictions - and I’ve seen evidence of His miracles in the rooms of AA.
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Are you an AA?

I have seen gross misconduct and failures that result in worsening a persons ability to succeed were sponsors have given advice to sponsees that was oppossing and conflicting to the advice given to them from their doctors, counselors and ministers. A doctor should be the first place you send someone for help.

I surely like to see that research. For I have seen reports that shows in many cases AA has been less effective then most other treatments.
 
Im sorry the Church can, could and should help this person…

Im totally shocked by the reasoning of the Nun in question…

Hasn’t heard of the power of prayer??? very strange position to take particularly from someone in a religious order.

The Church can and should offer prayers and special intentions at the “parish” level at every mass…

It does not take much to get this person specifically mentioned… not to mention parish prayer groups that guess what… PRAY!!!

They also pray for specific people.

God can do anything, but you have to ask for that help… and we can all do our bit to help our brothers and sisters why are stuggling to find their feet.

You can be sure I’ll be praying for this individual…

~God Bless~
 
DiZent said:
I may have made the same referral - or maybe a treatment program first - depending on the severity of his alcohol dependence, and his level of denial.
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Hi DiZent,

Thanks for the response. I was wanting some clarification. Are you saying that his alcohol treatment is more important than joining the Church?
God can and does heal people from addictions - and I’ve seen evidence of His miracles in the rooms of AA.
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Not doubting what you say here, but when you add that to your previous statement it sounds like that the Church is a secondary concern. Is that true.

Peace,

John
 
johnq said:
Hi DiZent,

Thanks for the response. I was wanting some clarification. Are you saying that his alcohol treatment is more important than joining the Church?

Not doubting what you say here, but when you add that to your previous statement it sounds like that the Church is a secondary concern. Is that true.

Peace,

John
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Hope you don’t mind me jumping in here but I wanted to share my personal experience about the “order” of things. Attending AA does not exclude joining or participating in Church. However, in my case, with a brain saturated by drugs and alcohol, I don’t believe it was possible for God to effectively convert my heart and soul. Only after I achieved some sobriety, could think straight and reason, could feel authentic emotion and remain planted in reality, could God’s voice be heard. While it’s certainly possible for God to break through an alcohol haze and shake an alcoholic in sobriety without the assistance of AA, I do think it is more likely that God USES AA to achieve this goal.

I know from my own experience that God tried to contact me while I was immersed in addiction, but I could not hear Him. Only after my head and heart cleared could I open the door and let Him in.
 
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