"Don't Join The Church, Go To AA . . ."

[DiZent]

Hi DiZent,

Thanks for the response. I was wanting some clarification. Are you saying that his alcohol treatment is more important than joining the Church?

They are not mutually exclusive.

Not doubting what you say here, but when you add that to your previous statement it sounds like that the Church is a secondary concern. Is that true.

Peace,

John

No, I am not in AA, but I’m a long-time Al-anon. I am a certified counselor. I do assessments and referrals for the court system - parole & probation. I have great respect for the 12-step programs, and will refer clients to them when appropriate. There are times when a referral to AA would not be appropriate, but even a client needing detox can benefit from attending meetings prior to their detox admission. The majority of treatment programs refer to AA as aftercare. I don’t often get to refer people to the Church, but I will talk about it when I get an opening - if a client tells me they are Catholic, raised Catholic, etc.

I think the journal was “Addiction Professional” - gets passed around among the staff. Here are links to similar articles

Hazelden
Join together
PIRE

DianeZ

 

[Bennie_P]

They are not mutually exclusive.

No, I am not in AA, but I’m a long-time Al-anon. I am a certified counselor. I do assessments and referrals for the court system - parole & probation. I have great respect for the 12-step programs, and will refer clients to them when appropriate. There are times when a referral to AA would not be appropriate, but even a client needing detox can benefit from attending meetings prior to their detox admission. The majority of treatment programs refer to AA as aftercare. I don’t often get to refer people to the Church, but I will talk about it when I get an opening - if a client tells me they are Catholic, raised Catholic, etc.

I think the journal was “Addiction Professional” - gets passed around among the staff. Here are links to similar articles

Hazelden
Join together
PIRE

DianeZ

Hazelden in is the Business of selling 12 step programs so I didn’t even look at that link and quit having anything to do with them when they started sending me daily devotionals quoting Nietzche, a real good Catholic to follow

That second study was about attendance, but has no information about overall success rates. but “AA” Carreers, otherwises stating if you attend 200 meetings a year your chance of staying sober is 79 % success rate, some success if you have to attend 4 meetings a week when do you have time for your family and Church activities? or if you are an active sponsor? then it seems AA has becomes your whole life, sounds like purgatory to me not recovery. Good maybe if you are single, but a career in AA It doesn’t address the 95 - 97 percent of alcoholics that doesn’t make it through thier first year in those rooms of recovery and miracles:shrug: I have seen a study which I wish I coud to link to you, that the longer an AA has been in those rooms the less likely they will be involved in any active church membership, other wise many,(I know not all, for I have some very devout Catholic friends in AA), make AA their church and religion. That study was used by AA sponsors locally as a “proof” that AA was better then church and told thier sponsees to avoid church attendance if they wanted to stay sober.

The third link is just a news release and doesn’t even have a overview of the results of the study.

AA may be ok to get one started, but if one doesn’t have a true life changing experience, then all AA becomes is a warehouse for a chosen very few.

I still think the sister was wrong, she should had the guy sign up for RCIA and referred him to a doctor to find out what options are best for him to deal with his addictions. AA might be good for him if he finds a good **Catholic **sponsor. He is already seeking out God, he already did step one, two and three, why push him back to step zero? IMHO

 

[DiZent]

Hazelden in is the Business of selling 12 step programs so I didn’t even look at that link and quit having anything to do with them when they started sending me daily devotionals quoting Nietzche, a real good Catholic to follow

That second study was about attendance, but has no information about overall success rates. but “AA” Carreers, otherwises stating if you attend 200 meetings a year your chance of staying sober is 79 % success rate, some success if you have to attend 4 meetings a week when do you have time for your family and Church activities? or if you are an active sponsor? then it seems AA has becomes your whole life, sounds like purgatory to me not recovery. Good maybe if you are single, but a career in AA It doesn’t address the 95 - 97 percent of alcoholics that doesn’t make it through thier first year in those rooms of recovery and miracles:shrug: I have seen a study which I wish I coud to link to you, that the longer an AA has been in those rooms the less likely they will be involved in any active church membership, other wise many,(I know not all, for I have some very devout Catholic friends in AA), make AA their church and religion. That study was used by AA sponsors locally as a “proof” that AA was better then church and told thier sponsees to avoid church attendance if they wanted to stay sober.

The third link is just a news release and doesn’t even have a overview of the results of the study.

AA may be ok to get one started, but if one doesn’t have a true life changing experience, then all AA becomes is a warehouse for a chosen very few.

I still think the sister was wrong, she should had the guy sign up for RCIA and referred him to a doctor to find out what options are best for him to deal with his addictions. AA might be good for him if he finds a good **Catholic **sponsor. He is already seeking out God, he already did step one, two and three, why push him back to step zero? IMHO

An intensive outpatient treatment program often requires attendance 3x per week, or a minimum of 9 hours per week for 26 week. The study you mentioned is not AA as presented in the Big Book. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen (sometimes) - a good sponsor can make the difference.

 

[Bennie_P]

An intensive outpatient treatment program often requires attendance 3x per week, or a minimum of 9 hours per week for 26 week. The study you mentioned is not AA as presented in the Big Book. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen (sometimes) - a good sponsor can make the difference.

The study I mention is the one you gave me a link to:shrug:

The Big Book doesn’t mention anything 90 meetings in 90 days, or three meetings a week, it doesn’t mention sponsors who Lord over thier sponsees, in fact a lot that goes on in AA doesn’t seem to be in the Big Book. As to meeting atendance, in the 12 and 12 it states that AA is supoose to be an organization of of attraction, why all the court order AA participation then? and there is suppose to a separation from other organizations, why are all the rehab centers basically charging thier clients thousands of dollars to do what AA was intened to do for free? AA today has nothing to do with AA in the Big Book:shrug: IMHO

 

[Eileen_T]

Here is a Prayer your workmate may consider praying. Matt Talbot’s story in conquering his alcoholism is an inspiring one.

**Official Prayer for the Canonisation of Blessed Matt Talbot **

“Lord, in your servant, Matt Talbot you have given us a wonderful example of triumph over addiction, of devotion to duty, and of lifelong reverence of the Holy Sacrament. May his life of prayer and penance give us courage to take up our crosses and follow in the footsteps of Our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Father, if it be your will that your beloved servant should be glorified by your Church, make known by your heavenly favours the power he enjoys in your sight. We ask this through the same Jesus Christ Our Lord. Amen.”

Matt’s programme of recovery was built around devotion to the Eucharist, love of Mary, Mother of God, spiritual reading, self-discipline and manual work. But he never forgot his struggle with his addiction. “Never look down on a man, who cannot give up the drink”, he told his sister, “it is easier to get out of hell!”.

Here’s the link circleofprayer.com/matt-talbot.html

 

[Bennie_P]

An intensive outpatient treatment program often requires attendance 3x per week, or a minimum of 9 hours per week for 26 week. The study you mentioned is not AA as presented in the Big Book. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen (sometimes) - a good sponsor can make the difference.

I appoligize you meant the study about religion didn’t you? No that study was done by a local university student working on thier masters in sociology.

All in all I hope the Lord blesses you in your work with those that struggle with alcoholism and addictions. I just challenge you not to let AA be your catch all. Keep up the good work.

 

[johnq]

Update: The priest is seeing my co-worker privately for RICA classes. :clapping:

Please pray for him as he is definitely struggling these last two weeks.

Thanks.

 

[Lepanto]

Can someone enlighten me what AA means?

In this case it means Apostates Anonymous.

 

[jblair]

**How sad the advise was for only one avenue for recovery and not both. God may choose one or multiple ways to help a person.
I’m reminded of a news report when the Pope Benedict was in South America at
catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=10329
**
“ACN reports the story of one 23 year old woman, Maria de Campo who was an addict and worked occasionally as a prostitute. She relates how at first she had no interest in meeting the Pope. Describing herself as an “unbeliever,” she had previously told her friends on the Fazenda, “I don’t listen to the Church. I am here to get myself off drugs, not to see someone you call the ‘Pope.’”
She ended up attending the Pope’s visit and found herself standing in the front row. The Pope took her hand and blessed this young woman. She tells ACN: “He looked me straight in the eyes, and it was as though he could see everything in me. I’ve never experienced anything like this before.” She broke into tears. “This meeting converted me. I had the feeling that God was reflected in him. I cannot explain it, but since then everything has changed.”
Since his visit, hundreds have visited the Fazenda drug rehabilitation center as well as the community church which is the first church dedicated to St. Antonio Galvao.”

My hunch is that for most Catholics who become sober, they do it through AA. Locally, half of the AA meetings are in fact held in Catholic Churches.

Let us simply pray for others to be healed, and let God be God.

 

[po18guy]

How sad the advise was for only one avenue for recovery and not both. God may choose one or multiple ways to help a person.
I’m reminded of a news report when the Pope Benedict was in South America at
catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=10329

“ACN reports the story of one 23 year old woman, Maria de Campo who was an addict and worked occasionally as a prostitute. She relates how at first she had no interest in meeting the Pope. Describing herself as an “unbeliever,” she had previously told her friends on the Fazenda, “I don’t listen to the Church. I am here to get myself off drugs, not to see someone you call the ‘Pope.’”
She ended up attending the Pope’s visit and found herself standing in the front row. The Pope took her hand and blessed this young woman. She tells ACN: “He looked me straight in the eyes, and it was as though he could see everything in me. I’ve never experienced anything like this before.” She broke into tears. “This meeting converted me. I had the feeling that God was reflected in him. I cannot explain it, but since then everything has changed.”
Since his visit, hundreds have visited the Fazenda drug rehabilitation center as well as the community church which is the first church dedicated to St. Antonio Galvao.”

My hunch is that for most Catholics who become sober, they do it through AA. Locally, half of the AA meetings are in fact held in Catholic Churches.

Let us simply pray for others to be healed, and let God be God.

Amen! Great miraculous conversion story, too.

 

[St_Gabriel]

“The Nun” told my co-worker this today.

So this 24 year old male tells me out of the blue, “I started reading the Bible today.” This caught me totally off guard because he gave NO indication of a desire for anything holy or religious.

The only words which ever came out of his mouth were drugs, alcohol, fights, women, food…

I found out he was having a rough time with his ex-girlfriend and raising their DD.

With no prior religious experience or inclinations, he went out and bought a Bible on a “whim” (i.e. prompting of the Holy Spirit.) More importantly, he began to READ it!

Did I mention that he is not afraid to ask questions? I mean A MILLION of them. Within a week and a half he asked me, “Was Peter the first Pope?”

I said, “Ummmm, yeah???”

He said, “GOOD! I told “Sean” that Peter was the first Pope and I am going to be Catholic.” Then he left before I could say anything. Not to worry, he came back and I invited him to mass.

He had a couple of miraculous experiences. These will be shared in my blog, St. Robert Bellarmine; Controversies & Secrets soon.

Immediately after his first mass, he asked Father about joining the Church. Father was thrilled and gave him the DRE’s contact information.

Today he had his first meeting with “The Nun”… (Yes I am praying for her. No, I don’t know if she wears a habit. Any wagers? I will let you know when I find out.)

Was her advice to go to adoration? or to talk to a priest? or to have his daughter baptized? or to read about St. Augustine? or…?

No. Her advice was, “You need to go to AA. I don’t think we can help you. Let me talk to Father.” Excuse me, but I thought that the Catholic Church has the answer in the SACRAMENTS!

Any prayers you can offer are greatly appreciated!

Have you had an experience like this? Or do you know someone who has? Any advice is also greatly appreciated!

Thanks and God bless you!

John

Just curious. Was he sober when he spoke to the nun? Did he have the smell of alcohol on his breath or clothes. I don’t mean to sound incompasionate, but if he did…