Don't Support Devilish Music(Rock Music)!!!

[Scott_D]

Well he wrote some of them. Yeah, i know, not that one.
And i’m sorry if i’ve misread what you’re trying to say, it’s just that the thread’s name is calling rock music evil, and i’ve heard some other people say that, so i guess i got it confused.
But if you’re not saying that, then what are you saying?
And i would go so far as to say “most” influential rock artists. I highly doubt it. Maybe most of the rock legends. But that’s to be expected. I mean, they are extremely rich, famous individuals, so they are already given to material goods. I’m sure many of the people that fall under the categories of “rich” and “famous” were/are influenced by mystics and such. What does it matter that a small handful were also rock musicians?
Lennon for one, he never really put anything occult-like in his music.
And Crowley was a …mystical person, not a straight-up satanist. Being influenced by him would be the same thing as believing in astrological predictions. Wrong, but not exactly going to poison their entire art.

All I’m saying is that is there is a lot more demonic influence than is thought. Certainly more than I thought. Hey, I grew up on the Stones, Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, The Who, The Kinks, etc. I also got into Nirvana, ACDC, and Alice in Chains later. As I grew up though, I noticed that while playing gigs, the music we played inspired people to get hammered and be promiscuous. I also noticed the heroin trail that rock music leaves so often among some former bandmates and former heroes of mine. Actually, one former bandmate, as he was struggling with heroin, told me he could actually hear the heroin influence in the mid-70’s Stones’ music.
The purpose of music is to lead people to God and to praise Him. The secular rock world is far from this. Therefore, it is obvious where much of the rock world gets its influence. Put it this way, if we are to live here as we would in heaven, at least the best we can, do you really think we’re going to hear the Beatles or Bob Dylan in heaven?

 

[BrooklynBoy200]

All I’m saying is that is there is a lot more demonic influence than is thought. Certainly more than I thought. Hey, I grew up on the Stones, Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, The Who, The Kinks, etc. I also got into Nirvana, ACDC, and Alice in Chains later. As I grew up though, I noticed that while playing gigs, the music we played inspired people to get hammered and be promiscuous. I also noticed the heroin trail that rock music leaves so often among some former bandmates and former heroes of mine. Actually, one former bandmate, as he was struggling with heroin, told me he could actually hear the heroin influence in the mid-70’s Stones’ music.
The purpose of music is to lead people to God and to praise Him. The secular rock world is far from this. Therefore, it is obvious where much of the rock world gets its influence. Put it this way, if we are to live here as we would in heaven, at least the best we can, do you really think we’re going to hear the Beatles or Bob Dylan in heaven?

Dylan?
He has some pretty religious stuff out there. And a lot of good morality songs.
I mean come on…“Like a Rolling Stone”?

 

[CTA1967]

The purpose of music is to lead people to God and to praise Him.

That is an absolutely senseless generalization. Is every book you read directly related to God? Is every painting you admire directly related to God? Is every play you see directly related to God? Is every movie you watch directly related to God? Is every food item you eat directly related to God? Is every building you enter directly related to God? Is every website you visit directly related to God? Is every person you talk to directly related to God?

And by that logic, where does classical music fit in? Many influential composers’ works were directly inspired by freemasonry, a spirituality that was considered to very dangerous and was specifically condemned by the Church. Many operas glorify gratuitous sex. I don’t see how rock music can be bashed without taking every other genre of music with it.

 

[pyro_alchemist]

Just had to jump in. This reminds me of back at church camp in 1966. Preacher there said rock and roll music would lead to fornication and the overthrow of the US by communism. I really think he was more afraid that rock and roll music might lead to dancing. But my grandmother, a devout Quaker born in 1880 had a pretty good insight on things. She used to say, " The only tune that belongs to the devil is a spit-tune."

 

[CTA1967]

All I’m saying is that is there is a lot more demonic influence than is thought. Certainly more than I thought. Hey, I grew up on the Stones, Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, The Who, The Kinks, etc. I also got into Nirvana, ACDC, and Alice in Chains later. As I grew up though, I noticed that while playing gigs, the music we played inspired people to get hammered and be promiscuous. I also noticed the heroin trail that rock music leaves so often among some former bandmates and former heroes of mine. Actually, one former bandmate, as he was struggling with heroin, told me he could actually hear the heroin influence in the mid-70’s Stones’ music.
The purpose of music is to lead people to God and to praise Him. The secular rock world is far from this. Therefore, it is obvious where much of the rock world gets its influence. Put it this way, if we are to live here as we would in heaven, at least the best we can, do you really think we’re going to hear the Beatles or Bob Dylan in heaven?

If find it ironic that Scott D’s post came directly after this:

Okay, here is another quote from Seeds of Change which will interest you, emphasis mine.

 "Other criticisms of rock music include immoral lyrics, worldliness and sensuality. I would be the first to acknowledge that the majority of rock lyrics are ungodly and immoral. They portray sex, drugs and rock 'n' as ends in themselves. Several rock groups are actively involved in the occult as well, and this surfaces in their music. Some groups in fact openly and blatantly talk about Satanism. But once again, the musical genre itself is not evil. **Lyrical salaciousness is frequently found in country and western songs and pop songs. Furthermore, the liberetti of many operas exult adulterous and even incestuous relationships. Such misuses are problems, but they do not make these musical forms evil. The fact is that any musical genre can be used to honor or defame the name of God. The history of art and music reveals that styles are constantly changing. These artistic styles are neither godly nor ungodly, just different. The conservative Christian community has a tendency to automatically reject new styles as unsuitable (only later to tolerate, then embrace the same styles and techniques).**
 "**Most people are not aware of the need to evaluate all artistic work on several levels.** When they see a film, go to a play, hear a concert, read a book, or look at a painting, they simply walk away with a vague notion of why they either liked or disliked it. It is important to approach the arts in a more thoughtful and critical way than this."

You did want a voice of dissent to the quotes you gave me. I think Kerry Livgren sums it up quite nicely - and logically - for the “clean” rockers out there…

Does anybody bother to read more than one post before posting anymore?

 

[joeNJ]

I think it’s unfortunate that some people see all rock music as evil. Sure many lyrics are against some peoples morality and this influence can contribute to the weakening of an entire culture’s ethics, but most music evokes emotions that are positive. What’s wrong with that? The music that promotes morally reprehensible themes I will choose not to support, but all rock music? Let be sensible.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

First, the fact is Rock is communication without words, irrespective as to what ideology is inserted into the music; the lyrics only inform us what the music is already declaring. In other words the music per se is its own message and as such it can completely alter the message of the words, assuming of course there is any! Thus rock music is not merely a sort of pliable medium that can be bent in any direction. Some art forms express certain philosphies and are so wedded to those philosphies that they convey a certain kind of outlook, now rock music is a prime example of this and is decidedly not a neutral medium. Now this would only be repudiated by those who have a particular theory to uphold, like the pro-Christian rock clan who clutch at every and any straw to legitimize and baptize it, in spite of its occultic and unsavoury connections.

You’re missing the point. Look, even if you would take out the words and focus on the melody, it could still have different meanings depending on the person. For example, if I were to listen to Linkin Park’s New Divide, you know what I actually see in my head? Crazy transforming robots dishing it out. That’s because the melody, the tune, the thing the made the song recognizable to me was the fact that I heard it to be the main song of Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. I could say the same thing for a lot of other pieces of music that have no lyrics (e.g. video game soundtracks). I’m one of those who produce meaning via association. This means, my interpretation of the music is dependent on the circumstances of where I heard it and how the music was used in that moment.

Though I doubt you can say this is the case for rock connoisseurs but this phenomenon is highly rampant among geeks such as myself who listen to music only because it’s been used in our favorite show/videogame/movie. The fact alone, that we understand a different meaning of a song purely because of its association proves that rock music in of itself can be up for interpretation. The range of interpretations may be limited but there is a range nonetheless.

Finally, I think that you are far too dismissive of statements made by musicians as to the vileness and evil of so much of the rock media. You say they are ‘just words and opinions’. This is quite true, but they are the words and opinions of veteran artists and therefore authoritative sources who, as such, should not go unheard. It is quite proper to cite statements made by these musicians in order to form an impartial understanding of the world of rock. Indeed if I failed to do this I could rightfully be accused of presenting a one-sided argument based on perjudice and supposition, thus you can surely see the necessity of going to the horses mouth so to speak. However I think I can understand why people object to me quoting these musicians, for clearly their statements regarding rock music explode their untenable positions, positions, nonetheless, which they try to defend to the death in the face of adverse cogent evidence.

You forget, this is art we’re talking here. Veteran opinion is only valid when we’re discussing skill. It’s nothing more. When it comes to things such as messages and the philosophies of the artists, being a veteran at the industry means nothing. To say otherwise is like saying an NBA player’s religious philosophy is connected to how well he plays his sport. If I were a veteran video game player, the only knowledge that would give me credit is my skill with the controller and mastery of certain gaming strategies. Pose me a question on something as unrelated as my religious views (and views on life in general) and I would actually reprove people who would take my words as authoritative.

Finally, I would just like to say that you have avoided my main point in your quoting and that is rock is not limited to the West. There are bands who use the same instruments and the same style of rhythm all over the world. Heck all you’ve done is quote popular rock icons. That doesn’t mean their views are shared by every single rock musician on the planet. Heck, I’d heavily bet that some of them are even unheard of in certain parts.

 

[MoonChild02]

If you all seriously think that Rock ‘n’ Roll is bad, let’s check out some good ol’ fashioned Classical (or what most people include in their definition of Classical):

Wagner promoted anti-Semitism
Pagnini sold his soul to the devil for his talent
Tartini was visited by the devil one night, who played for him. Tartini then wrote down the song. It’s rather popular, and is entitled, “The Devil’s Trill”
Berlioz wrote about a man named Faust giving in to the devil’s temptations (and it wasn’t a Christian play). The work was called “The Damnation of Faust”.
Brahms hated women. ALL women.
Beethoven was a womanizer.
Operas began as re-tellings of old Greek and Roman myths. In other words, the root of opera is paganism.

Shall I go on? There’s a lot more where that came from, I assure you. I’m a music major, I could go on forever.

The point is that you’ll find excuses to write off anything as inherently evil. If you write off Rock ‘n’ Roll as ALL evil, you miss what good comes from it. You’ll miss out on artists like The Thirsting, Ceili Rain, P.O.D., DC Talk, Plumb, Sixpence None the Richer, and many, many other Christian rockers, all of whom are devout in their faith and are leading many people to God, yet their influences are the same ones you’ve all just rejected as wholly evil.

So if you want to cross Rock off the list, go ahead. You’ll just have to cross off every other genre of music as well. Then you won’t be able to even leave the house anymore. Good luck with that!

 

[Joe_5859]

What I keep coming back to is there is nothing I can think of that one can specifically point to in rock music and say “That is why it is evil.”

I listen to mostly progressive/power metal music. The idea that it all has the same (or even similar) rhythm is nonsensical to me. You can’t listen to Dream Theater’s 23 minute A Change of Seasons and say that it has some unified driving rhythm.

Rhythm is rhythm, whether it’s played on a drum, a bass guitar, or a ukelele. Even completely different musical genres can still employ the same basic rhythm. I simply don’t understand how one particular rhythm (or even several) could belong exclusively to Satan.

 

[Scott_D]

That is an absolutely senseless generalization. Is every book you read directly related to God? Is every painting you admire directly related to God? Is every play you see directly related to God? Is every movie you watch directly related to God? Is every food item you eat directly related to God? Is every building you enter directly related to God? Is every website you visit directly related to God? Is every person you talk to directly related to God?

And by that logic, where does classical music fit in? Many influential composers’ works were directly inspired by freemasonry, a spirituality that was considered to very dangerous and was specifically condemned by the Church. Many operas glorify gratuitous sex. I don’t see how rock music can be bashed without taking every other genre of music with it.

The more directed toward God you are, the better off you will be. Just read a biography of the Saints to find that out.
I have not “bashed” rock music, but merely pointed out that there is much in it that is satanic. Why don’t you tell me how classical music has devolved as rock has. Rock music has degenerated into a genre which has produced bands such as Cannibal Corpse, Carcass, Marilyn Manson, Slipknot, Slayer, etc. Classical music has not devolved as rock has. How can you compare a music such as classical, which has no lyrics, except for opera, to rock, the majority of which promotes gratuitous sex, alcohol, and drugs? Are you saying that the worst operas compare to the worst of today’s rock, which is overtly satanic?
Why don’t you learn how to debate without being insulting. An argument is not “senseless” merely because it’s senseless to you. You are missing my point entirely.

 

[havana1]

The more directed toward God you are, the better off you will be. Just read a biography of the Saints to find that out.
I have not “bashed” rock music, but merely pointed out that there is much in it that is satanic. Why don’t you tell me how classical music has devolved as rock has. Rock music has degenerated into a genre which has produced bands such as Cannibal Corpse, Carcass, Marilyn Manson, Slipknot, Slayer, etc. Classical music has not devolved as rock has. How can you compare a music such as classical, which has no lyrics, except for opera, to rock, the majority of which promotes gratuitous sex, alcohol, and drugs? Are you saying that the worst operas compare to the worst of today’s rock, which is overtly satanic?

Yes, that’s exactly what I would say. Have you ever translated into English some of the words of the famous operas? It’s all about sex. Opera is like pornography for rich people, and La Traviata in Italy is like a brothel. So, yes, I will say that the “worst operas” compare to the “worst rock music.”

“Don Gioavanni” - about a man-whore. Satanic.
“Cosi Fan Tutte” - about wife-swapping and promiscuity. Satanic.
“The Magic Flute” - every New Ager’s favorite opera. Satanic.
“The Marriage of Figaro” - all about decadence. Satanic.
“Madame Butterly” - no comment on that one. **Satanic. **

What was the favorite Satanic music of the Nazis? What did Adolf Hitler listen to? That’s right…opera…Satanic:
fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/arts/musReich.htm

One of the most famous songs by Frank Sinatra, ol’ blue eyes, is called “Witchcraft.” A song that makes a joke about **Satanism. **

I can’t believe this thread is still going.

 

[Portrait]

Dear fellow posters,

This has been a thorougly interesting and enthralling debate and I for one have learned a great deal from the various contributors to the thread. However, I feel that the time has arrived for my closing words, so I will shortly bow out gracefully.

I have endeavoured to present the “anti-rock” position to the best of my ability without being destructively critical of the Christians on the thread who do not share my convictions. Whether I have succeded or not is for others to judge. However I remain firmly convinced that the case against rock music is both overwhelming and compelling; I recognize, of course, that my deeply held convictions are not binding upon others. My final direction would therefore come straight from Sacred Scripture: “Let every .one be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14: 5).

To conclude now I would like to ask the following questions for your careful and prayerful thought: what voice are you hearing in rock music?; Does it appeal to the sensual or to the spiritual?; does it seem to have its roots very much in this world or in heaven?; does it stimulate pure, wholesome appetites or impure?; Does it lead you to want more of the world’s values, or less?; does it help or hinder a desire to “love not the world, or the things in the world” (I John 2: 15); does it encourage you to seek “the holiness without which no one shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12: 14)?; does the thought of Jesus returning and finding you listening to this music make you feel uncomfortable or unconcerned? The question is not essentially about what we like, but of whom we love.

Even the most vocal and ardent supporters of rock music would freely admit that there is much in the rock scene to disturb and unsettle any Christian conscience. A* large* percentage of rock tracks contain in their lyrics blatantly un-Christian morality, ranging from casual acceptance of pre-marital sex to the unspeakably obscene and downright vile.

Hear what St. Paul says: “beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God” (2 Cor.7: 1). Every Christian has a searching responsibility to apply those principles to every part of life. For many Christians, doing so would call for a radical rethink in their musical tastes - it might also call for a bonfire, not without its biblical precedent (see Acts 19: 11-20). A missionary once wrote these words in their diary: “The will of God - nothing less - nothing more - nothing else” On the issue of rock music, as on every other issue, that should be all one wants to know and all one wants to do.

Blessings on you all and may God’s peace be yours now and always.

Warmest good wishes and prayers,

Portrait

 

[distracted]

• res ipsa loquitor (the facts speak for themselves). Moreover, there is no saying how many other bands, singers and musicians may be involved in the occult and whose music may be impregnated with the poison. For people to blithely say that the issue is limited to an occasional rock singer dabbling with the occult is dangerously naive. For Catholics to arise and vehemently defend such wickedness and evil is nothing short of shameful and embarrassing.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

well, maybe i am wrong to ever listen to rock music but i like a lot of it. If the lyrics are bad, i just tune them out. I listen to one rock song and then something spiritual… usually they only play one good song anyway, then one not so great and / or commercials, etc…

i just like the music… i don’t feel its wrong to appreciate good music…

someone else might not be so strong in his/her faith though… in which case maybe this is not good advice… Maybe it affects me in ways i don’t fully consciously realize also… God knows… But i just think a little here and there is not harmful… if you are truly committed to Christ and his Church…

 

[CTA1967]

Yes, that’s exactly what I would say. Have you ever translated into English some of the words of the famous operas? It’s all about sex. Opera is like pornography for rich people, and La Traviata in Italy is like a brothel. So, yes, I will say that the “worst operas” compare to the “worst rock music.”

“Don Gioavanni” - about a man-whore. Satanic.
“Cosi Fan Tutte” - about wife-swapping and promiscuity. Satanic.
“The Magic Flute” - every New Ager’s favorite opera. Satanic.
“The Marriage of Figaro” - all about decadence. Satanic.
“Madame Butterly” - no comment on that one. **Satanic. **

What was the favorite Satanic music of the Nazis? What did Adolf Hitler listen to? That’s right…opera…Satanic:
fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/arts/musReich.htm

One of the most famous songs by Frank Sinatra, ol’ blue eyes, is called “Witchcraft.” A song that makes a joke about **Satanism. **

I can’t believe this thread is still going.

If you all seriously think that Rock ‘n’ Roll is bad, let’s check out some good ol’ fashioned Classical (or what most people include in their definition of Classical):

Wagner promoted anti-Semitism
Pagnini sold his soul to the devil for his talent
Tartini was visited by the devil one night, who played for him. Tartini then wrote down the song. It’s rather popular, and is entitled, “The Devil’s Trill”
Berlioz wrote about a man named Faust giving in to the devil’s temptations (and it wasn’t a Christian play). The work was called “The Damnation of Faust”.
Brahms hated women. ALL women.
Beethoven was a womanizer.
Operas began as re-tellings of old Greek and Roman myths. In other words, the root of opera is paganism.

Shall I go on? There’s a lot more where that came from, I assure you. I’m a music major, I could go on forever.

The point is that you’ll find excuses to write off anything as inherently evil. If you write off Rock ‘n’ Roll as ALL evil, you miss what good comes from it. You’ll miss out on artists like The Thirsting, Ceili Rain, P.O.D., DC Talk, Plumb, Sixpence None the Richer, and many, many other Christian rockers, all of whom are devout in their faith and are leading many people to God, yet their influences are the same ones you’ve all just rejected as wholly evil.

So if you want to cross Rock off the list, go ahead. You’ll just have to cross off every other genre of music as well. Then you won’t be able to even leave the house anymore. Good luck with that!

Thank you! That’s what I’ve been trying to say for the past five pages!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

To conclude now I would like to ask the following questions for your careful and prayerful thought: what voice are you hearing in rock music?; Does it appeal to the sensual or to the spiritual?; does it seem to have its roots very much in this world or in heaven?; does it stimulate pure, wholesome appetites or impure?; Does it lead you to want more of the world’s values, or less?; does it help or hinder a desire to “love not the world, or the things in the world” (I John 2: 15); does it encourage you to seek “the holiness without which no one shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12: 14)?; does the thought of Jesus returning and finding you listening to this music make you feel uncomfortable or unconcerned? The question is not essentially about what we like, but of whom we love.

Why is it that you guys always imply that everything has to be spiritual/religious to be acceptable? Why can’t I just listen for the sake of listening? You don’t expect children to be in a prayerful or spiritual mindset when they play tag do you? When I listen The World by the J-rock band Nightmare, the only thing that comes to my mind is the Death Note op and… the Death Note op. That’s it.

As for the scenario of Jesus catching me listening to that song. He’s more likely to say what all other people have already told me. “Funny how you listen to Japanese music but you don’t know Japanese. ”

Even the most vocal and ardent supporters of rock music would freely admit that there is much in the rock scene to disturb and unsettle any Christian conscience. A* large* percentage of rock tracks contain in their lyrics blatantly un-Christian morality, ranging from casual acceptance of pre-marital sex to the unspeakably obscene and downright vile.

To all people who would agree with Portrait’s statement here, I’d just like to ask one simple question.

Did you listen to every single rock song ever made in every country in the history of the world?

Answer that for me before making such a blatantly bogus generalization as a “large percentage”.

P.S.

There are much better things to put in a bonfire; Richard Dawkins’ books and Chick tracts for example.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thank you for contributing, Portrait! You crafted a useful “examination of conscience” for listening to music.

In regards to the “large percentage” comment, I usually don’t find those types of arguments very compelling (even if they are true). In the 4th century Roman Empire, we could say that the vast majority of Christians were Arian, but that doesn’t mean that Christianity in inherently Arian. We could post statistics that state the vast majority of Catholics (in the U.S., at least) do not believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, but that doesn’t mean that such a position is inherent to Catholicism.

In logic, they call it the fallacy of argumentum ad populum.

 

[RedIvan3]

Really, are you kidding me?

Rock music is completely fine. What about Psalm 150? 'Praise the Lord with the strings, praise the Lord with the clash of cymbals?"

And so what if certain artists were satanists? Dont we have a tradition in Christianity to turn originally evil things to good things? I mean look at the cross, our universal symbol.

I find a ton of Christian messages in rock. I pray with Nothing Else Matters by Metallica. And there not just stupid love ballads. Rainmaker by Iron Maiden, Delight and Angers by In Flames, Until It Sleeps by Metallica, The Nameless by Slipknot, Walk With Me In Hell by Lamb of God. The list goes on and on. To catagorize rock and metal as evil is stupid and ignorant. Let us remember the words of Pope Gregory I, “If you see someone worshiping a tree, dont go cut the tree down and call the man ignorant, rather consecrate the tree to Christ and instruct him to return to the tree as he would”.

 

[havana1]

I find a ton of Christian messages in rock. I pray with Nothing Else Matters by Metallica. And there not just stupid love ballads. Rainmaker by Iron Maiden, Delight and Angers by In Flames, Until It Sleeps by Metallica

Good point. Metallica are all family men w/ kids now (a lot of it’s covered it in the movie “Some Kind of Monster,” which had been the best movie ever made about heavy metal until “Anvil” came out a few months ago.) Also, the guy from Iron Maiden is a licensed airline pilot - he might even be flying the plane next time you’re travelling somewhere…!

 

[Flopfoot]

Do people seriously still have this discussion?

The following by Jimmy Akin is required reading for anyone who still thinks it’s a sin to listen to ‘Bad Music’

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2005/07/bad_music.html

 

[MugenOne]

I mostly listen to dark Gothic orchestral rock/trance like E Nomine, Immediate Music, Two Steps from Hell, Es Posthumus, and X-ray Dog especially when I’m on the road. E Nomine- Ave Maria, Vater Unser, Per L’eternita, Spiritu del Aire, Mala, Heilig, etc. are Catholic inspired. Their new album, “Das Dunkle Element” is dark, Gothic and cinematic sounding. It’s like praying while driving. What I like best from them is that most of their lyrics are in Latin.