Don't Support Devilish Music(Rock Music)!!!

[Portrait]

Hello there, Portrait! I’m glad to see that you are willing to put thought into this subject before posting. However, there are, I believe, more things for you to consider before judging the matter. First of all, rock music is not communication minus the words. Actually, this is a better despcription of classical msuic. In classical, you listen to the tune and emotion that the music encites and then interpret it, relating it to some experience you have had (“Dolly’s Dreaming and Awakening” by T. Oesten) or some object/person (“Le Petite Chien” by Chopin).
In rock, however, the words indeed do matter. Yes, it is true that the music sets the tone and animates the words. Of course, the opposite is also true; the words help mold and contain the music, providing it with a fairly clear meaning and leaving out the wide range of interpretations available to classical music. I’ve always been under the impression that this co-operation between the music and the words was the point of music and one of the traits of a good lyrical song. It is rarely that I hear a song which is ineffably sad where the lyrics are concerned, but with a bouncy, hopeful beat. Finding a tune which expresses and enhances the words is one of the challenges of composing. It can be bent in any direction, hence the many different genres, such as soft rock, alternative rock, hard rock, and classic rock. It all depends on what you, the composer, wants the song to be about.

If this is indeed so, can you please tell me what underlying philosphy is common in the Dave Matthew’s Band’s “Funny the Way it Is”, STYX’s “Renegade”, Roxette’s “Listen to Your Heart”, Switchfoot’s “Only Hope”, and Journey’s “Open Arms”? If they all possessed the same harsh, passionate beat (like rap music does, as a general rule) then I would say the words to not matter. However, the tune fits the words, the words fits the tune, and there is a great variety of sounds and words between hard, soft, classical, and alternative rock.

(to be continued in post below)

Dear Tally Marx,

Cordial greetings and a warm welcome to CAF. Thankyou for your responses to my post.

First, when any music is composed, it is not composed into a neutral nothing, but rather into a positive something, vis-a-vis, a form that is definite and meaningful, with colour and character - rock is no exception. Therefore it will necessarily convey an expressive communication, for when single notes or tones are intentionally brought together in a musical work they are most decidedly not neutral. Music is probably the most powerful stimulus known among the perceptive senses. Moreover, the medical, psychiatric and other evidences for the non-neutrality of music is utterly overwhelming. However, be that as it may, words are timid things anyway; decibels, beat and rhythm are bold things that get through to the blood of the listeners and bury the words under an avalanche of sound. The fact is that rock music per se has a message and that message is chiefly the message of sexual permissiveness. As music affects one’s body one instinctively desires to put motions into it. What kind of motions fit rock music? Basicly sensual motions. Now if the message of rock music evokes that sort of response, then how can it be suitable music for a Christian who is supposedly pursuing holiness?

Second, rock or Pop music does not require a “harsh, passionate beat” to either be sensual or to elicit a sensual response (e.g. Phyliss Nelson’s Move Closer and Donna Summer’s *Love to Love *You Baby, both of which are soft ballad’s but also very sensual, especially the latter).

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

More to follow.

 

[rapunzel77]

Portrait, most of what you and some others have been saying is opinion. What I don’t understand is the complete aversion to the “passions” and “sensuality.” We are composed of both body and spirit. We perceive and interact in our world with our senses. Rock music is another way to express certain feelings and emotions. Not all of it is about sex. Sure, there is some that is. Yes, it can stir the passions but what is wrong with feeling happy or euphoric? Or feeling sad and angry and getting those emotions out by listening to music rather than hurting someone or themselves? I have been listening to a wide variety of music, rock included for more than 20 years. It has not had any detrimental effects on me.

 

[Tally_Marx]

First, when any music is composed, it is not composed into a neutral nothing, but rather into a positive something, vis-a-vis, a form that is definite and meaningful, with colour and character - rock is no exception.

Hello, again! ^^As a composer, I am already well aware of this. Every art (be it music, writing, or water colors) is meant to tell a story and make the listener/reader/viewer feel what the characters are feeling. Being able to stimulate emotion and convey a coherent message simultaneously is the point of art in general. As I said in my previous post, it’s the challenge of composing a song. If your song is a sad one about, say, a past abortion that you regret, then your tune must reflect that pain and longing. The music is no more neutral than the words are-- but they should always both send the same message. The words tell the story and the music animates it. What I do NOT understand is what you see wrong with this!

Therefore it will necessarily convey an expressive communication…the medical, psychiatric and other evidences for the non-neutrality of music is utterly overwhelming. However, be that as it may, words are timid things anyway; decibels, beat and rhythm are bold things that get through to the blood of the listeners and bury the words under an avalanche of sound.

I disagree that the words are “buried beneath sound”, and I think you should, too, because if this holds true for rock then it should in turn hold true for every genre of music. That means that one should not have words in music (classical would be the only acceptable genre) and should not have music in words (poetry only). I also disagree because we think with our language; meaning, we think in English or French or whatever our tongue is. If a message is going to get through to us, if we are going to think about something, it’s got to have words. That’s why Oesten called his song “Dolly’s Dreaming and Awakening” and why Chopin called his “Le Petite Chien”. This music didn’t just inspire vague sentiments; it reminded the listeners of factual, physical things and experiences and they made this parallel apparent in the title. Also, even if the words would not stick as well as the tune itself does, this would hardly matter, because the two are working in unison to convey the same message.

The fact is that rock music per se has a message and that message is chiefly the message of sexual permissiveness.

This where you lose me completely! How are you coming to this conclusion? While it is true that the music is perfectly capable of inspiring emotion, it is also true that it is capable of inspiring ANY emotion. Why do you think that rock music, as a rule, incites sexual passion? What about Switchfoot’s “Yesterdays” makes you think of sex? Personally, it makes me think of exactly what it’s about—loss and longing. STYX’s “Renegade” doesn’t make me think or feel anything sexual; it makes me think of rebellion and feel the same. Rebellion hardly equals sex.

As music affects one’s body one instinctively desires to put motions into it. What kind of motions fit rock music? Basicly sensual motions.

Not true. Classic rock is some of the most fun and easiest music to dance to. Again, I think you are confusing rock with rap. I’ve seen more kids do positively abominable things dancing to “The Stinky Leg” than I have when King Harvest’s “Dancing in the Moonlight” is playing.

Now if the message of rock music evokes that sort of response, then how can it be suitable music for a Christian who is supposedly pursuing holiness?

It doesn’t. Not as a general rule. The songs which DON’T aren’t even the exception.

Second, rock or Pop music does not require a “harsh, passionate beat” to either be sensual or to elicit a sensual response (e.g. Phyliss Nelson’s Move Closer and Donna Summer’s *Love to Love *You Baby, both of which are soft ballad’s but also very sensual, especially the latter).

I believe you have just proven my point. Perhaps these songs are so sensual because the words are about sex, and maybe you find the tune sensual because it reflects the words. Perhaps you think of things offensive when listening to these songs because that’s exactly what the composer wants you to think of, the mood he wove into ever bit of the song—words and tune. To prove your point, you will have to give me a song with a totally innocent story, but with a beat that shouts sex. And even then it would be iffy evidence, because different people are reminded of different things when listening to the same tune. For instance, J.L.F. Mendelssohn’s “Fruhlingslied” makes me think of a housewife sweeping, while it reminds my mother or a child dancing.

More to follow.

I await it eagerly.

Pax,
~Tally

 

[Portrait]

And I suppose you would be a fanatic to desperately clutch at your Nike shoes, despite the fact that Nike is a pagan godess of victory? Or to desperately clutch your candles, even though candles have been used for evil things… like Black Masses. Or to desperately clutch your gun, even though it was a gun that was used to shoot Pope John Paul II… do you see where I am going with this? These things are tools and cannot be evil in and of themselves. It is the intention with which they are used which perverts them. EVERYTHING around you has unsavory connections. Human beings are fiendishly good at being able to sin anywhere, with anything, at any time. Of course, God is equally as good at speaking to people through whatever medium happens to be available at the time.

Every lyrical song repeats itself, otherwise it wouldn’t be a song but a psalm. Most rock songs I hear have several stanzas, a chorus, a bridge, and an outro… of course, the same could be said for most country music, too. Anything done over and over has the power to ‘hypnotize’ someone. Even classical music can do this, which is why a lot of classical music is played in stores and elevators, so that it has the effect of calming people down, making them move slowly so that they can look at and be attracted by more sale items or so that the ride doesn’t feel so long…

It’s not necessarily a relentless driving beat and if you think that as a rule this is a characteristic of rock music, then I’m afraid you have never really listened to rock music and have confused it with rap. Every lyrical song has a rhythmic beat, because the words are a poem (and no poem is a poem without rhythm) and the music reflects the words. Besides, most songs change the beat at some point… the beat for the stanza (whether maintained by the drums, the guitar, or the piano) is usually different from the beat for the chorus, and the bridge doesn’t have to have anything in common with any other part of the song!

Or it can be like Switchfoot’s “Easier Than Love”, in which the words are specifically sexual and somber (in a good way, though, believe it or not) but the tune is bouncy, and possesses an irony which gives the song a special punch that gets your attention. It’s the downplay of poetry, in a song. Now, if you are speaking of something that’s heavy metal, where you cannot hear or understand the words the music is so loud, then you have a valid point, because then all one is getting is the emotion (which is a violent one) and none of the words that give that emotion form. But this doesn’t happen in all rock (but it IS seen inChopin’s “Revolutionary” ) and it would be highly unfair to condemn all rock just because some artists like to scream. (For the record, I can’t stand loud, screaming songs, either)

It’s all in the interpretation, my friend. And Switchfoot is awesome.

Warmest good wishes,

~Tally Marx

 

[Portrait]

Dear Tally Marx,

Thankyou my dear friend for your latest response which I have now read and inwardly digested.

One of the most peristent allegations respecting rock music is that it has exceedingly strong sexual connotations and it is not too difficult to see why. Many of its leading performers have made adultery, fornication, lesbianism, homosexuality or some other sexual vice a way of life. Press reports of their sordid sex lives have now become so common that they scarcely raise readers eyebrows. Now whilst they are not the only musicians to have murky morals - why, even some of the best-known classical composers were decidedly off-key in their private lives. Indeed we can go a step further and say that many classical compositions have murder, violence, hatred, greed, immorality or other evils as their themes. However, the point at issue is whether we can single out rock music as having specifically sexual connotations. The musicians and their debased performances afford much evidence that evinces that rock does indeed have specific sexual connotations. However the problem is not so much a want of evidence, but rather the distgusting and revolting nature of that evidence, which is so deplorably bad and unsavoury that it cannot cited on a Christian forum such as this (that in and of itself is surely a very damning indictment). Suffice to say, to a greater or lesser degree, many of the top rock groups and artists show a blatantly sexual orientation. Cleary, what I term the ‘filth connection’ is incontrovertably established between sex an rock.

Even the most vociferous devotees of rock and pop would acknowledge that there is much in the rock scene to disturb any tender Christian conscience. A large percentage of tracks contain in their lyrics flagrantly un-Christian morality, ranging from casual acceptance of pre-marital sex to the unspeakably pornographic. All of this would support the contention that rock music emanates from an Augean stable of unimaginable depravity. Indeed the moral depravity is so obvious that even a blind man on a galloping horse could not miss it. Alas, the only people who appear to miss it are the professing Christian devotees of rock.

How can can any Christian worth their salt listen to the objectionable lyrics, obscene gestures and deviant sexual claims that are so much a major feature of rock music, and what impact will listening to this morally offensive filth have upon their Christian consciences?

“In a sense all rock is revolutionary. By its very beat and sound it has always implicitly rejected restraints and has celebrated freedom and sexuality” (Time magazine). In our innermost being I think that we know that this is true.

Tally, I really pray that you will ponder carefully what I have said above.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Portrait]

Portrait, most of what you and some others have been saying is opinion. What I don’t understand is the complete aversion to the “passions” and “sensuality.” We are composed of both body and spirit. We perceive and interact in our world with our senses. Rock music is another way to express certain feelings and emotions. Not all of it is about sex. Sure, there is some that is. Yes, it can stir the passions but what is wrong with feeling happy or euphoric? Or feeling sad and angry and getting those emotions out by listening to music rather than hurting someone or themselves? I have been listening to a wide variety of music, rock included for more than 20 years. It has not had any detrimental effects on me.

Dear rapunzel77,

Cordial greetings and thankyou most kindly for your response above.

Sorry but it is not mere individual opinion but the majority viewpoint of just about everyone, from the rock performers themselves to journalists, social commentators and most orthodox Christians, Catholic and Protestant. They all unite in saying that there is a filth connection between rock music and sex. Have they all got it wrong? To date I have not seen one peice of cogent and persuasive evidence that would suggest that they have. Moreover, the rock musicians themselves understand better than anyone else the media in which they live and move and have their being, thus their testimony cannot be casually brushed aside as wothless biased opinion. By way of analogy, I would not lightly dismiss the claims of a Catholic apologist if I wished to understand what Catholicism was all about.

Please read my post to Tally above as I think you should find it helpful.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Tally_Marx]

One of the most peristent allegations respecting rock music is that it has exceedingly strong sexual connotations and it is not too difficult to see why. Many of its leading performers have made adultery, fornication, lesbianism, homosexuality or some other sexual vice a way of life.

Thank you for your concern. I appreciate it.
As to the above, it must be admitted that many rock artists have a bad history and reputation. Of course, the exact same (and some far worse) could be said of actors. Yet most people watch tv. And if the show in and of itself is clean, then the viewer isn’t getting any of the “bad stuff”. I think the same applies with music. It doesn’t matter what the members of Rockwell did in their private lives, their song “Somebody’s Watching Me” reflects none of that. We’re not listening to the sex-lives of the artists. We’re listening to the music. That may or may not reflect their sex lives… but the bad songs can always be avoided. Or the artists can be avoided, and you can only support that rock music played by clean artists–like Switchfoot.
Remember: England has had some pretty bad things happen in their history… as has America… and France… and every other country. Does that mean we should destroy them or abandon them? Or should we merely avoid doing said wrongs again and try to provide people with better examples of moral men?

Alas, the only people who appear to miss it are the professing Christian devotees of rock.

…And those who avoid all the inappropriate things you are speaking of, and only listen to clean rock. And those, like myself, who are doing their utmost to provide more clean rock to those who need it.

How can can any Christian worth their salt listen to the objectionable lyrics, obscene gestures and deviant sexual claims that are so much a major feature of rock music, and

We don’t. We listen to the lyrics that have Christian values in them, or the ones like Open Arms which, from a certain viewpoint, can be seen as ALL ABOUT Christ. If the words are clean, the entire song is clean, because it reflects the story the words tell.

“In a sense all rock is revolutionary. By its very beat and sound it has always implicitly rejected restraints and has celebrated freedom and sexuality” (Time magazine). In our innermost being I think that we know that this is true.

Beats inspire emotion (they are meant to inspire the emotion the words promote). If that beat is a passionate rebellious one as in “Renegade”, then a sexaholic would interpret merely the beat as one that reminds him of sex. Of course, those good Christians who listen to rock music aren’t listening for a sex-high… they’ll take the song, words and all, on it’s face…

…I’ll be away for a while, and will not be able to respond for some time. I hope to view your reply and answer it later.

Pax,
~Tally Marx

 

[distracted]

i am beginning to wonder if there is something to this idea of… uh… there being something “anti-Christ” (?) about listening to rock music too often… and how often is too often??

i listened to this one YES song a few days ago and now i cna’t get the song out of my head… i played some Christian music 2 try to get Christian music to play in my head… and whne i turned it off 2 go do something… that YES song was STILL playing (loudly) in my head… Yikes… couldn’t get it out of my head… :banghead:

and when you have rock lyrics playing in your head… even tho they are pleasant ones and all that… well, you can’t think of Jesus quite as much…

i haven’t sinned, to speak of… unless the aforementioned is a sin…

but still… i kinda miss Jesus… He didn’t leave ( i wouldn’t LET Him) but He doesn’t feel quite as close…

just some thoughts…

probably need to pray some rosaries… can’t spend time in the Real Presence cuz… (long story)… not logistically feasible at ths time…

 

[Portrait]

Thank you for your concern. I appreciate it.
As to the above, it must be admitted that many rock artists have a bad history and reputation. Of course, the exact same (and some far worse) could be said of actors. Yet most people watch tv. And if the show in and of itself is clean, then the viewer isn’t getting any of the “bad stuff”. I think the same applies with music. It doesn’t matter what the members of Rockwell did in their private lives, their song “Somebody’s Watching Me” reflects none of that. We’re not listening to the sex-lives of the artists. We’re listening to the music. That may or may not reflect their sex lives… but the bad songs can always be avoided. Or the artists can be avoided, and you can only support that rock music played by clean artists–like Switchfoot.
Remember: England has had some pretty bad things happen in their history… as has America… and France… and every other country. Does that mean we should destroy them or abandon them? Or should we merely avoid doing said wrongs again and try to provide people with better examples of moral men?

…And those who avoid all the inappropriate things you are speaking of, and only listen to clean rock. And those, like myself, who are doing their utmost to provide more clean rock to those who need it.

We don’t. We listen to the lyrics that have Christian values in them, or the ones like Open Arms which, from a certain viewpoint, can be seen as ALL ABOUT Christ. If the words are clean, the entire song is clean, because it reflects the story the words tell.

Beats inspire emotion (they are meant to inspire the emotion the words promote). If that beat is a passionate rebellious one as in “Renegade”, then a sexaholic would interpret merely the beat as one that reminds him of sex. Of course, those good Christians who listen to rock music aren’t listening for a sex-high… they’ll take the song, words and all, on it’s face…

…I’ll be away for a while, and will not be able to respond for some time. I hope to view your reply and answer it later.

Pax,
~Tally Marx

Dear Tally,

Cordial greetings and my apologies for the delay in replying but I was otherwise engaged.

Shortly before his death, John Lennon said with laudable honesty, “Rock music has got the same message as before. It is anti-religious, anti-nationalistic and anti-morality. But now I understand what you have to do. You have to put the message across with a little honey on it”. Clearly these unnuanced and dispassionate words are most revealing, coming as they do from a man who epitomized hedonistic excess and irreligion, and they could well have been uttered by a Christian moralist. Moreover, many rock performers claim that there is a close connection between rock music sex and It will simply not do to brush this testimony aside as mere worthless and biased opinion, for these rock muscians have no particular axe to grind. Therefore what they say with respect to the rock media ought to be regarded as an authoritative primary souce and as such it should not go unheard. Moreover, their comments provide us with a representative and impartial insight into the world of rock music and thus what they have to say is of the utmost significance when one is seeking to appraise this music genre.

Unfortunately, there is no escaping the fact that the majority of rock lyrics are impious and immoral. They portray drugs and sex as an end in themeselves. Moreover, several groups are actively involved in the occult and this surfaces in their music. Thus it is hardly surprising that Steven Lawhead (who is by no means anti-rock music) says, “there is more blatant immorality being peddled in popular music now than ever before” (Rock Reconsidered). Now in the view of most fair-minded men this does not look too good as regards ‘the case for rock music’. On the contrary it would tend to confirm what most impartial observers, not desperate to uphold an indefensible viewpoint, have always suspected, namely, that rock music emanates from an Augean stable of unimaginable filth and deparavity.

In the light of all this a very crucial question needs to answered: can we safely listen to rock music without the slightest risk of getting defiled by its undoubted immoral associations?; “Can a man carry fire in his bosom and his clothes not be burned?” (Proverbs 6; 27). Look we cannot foster an erotic type of music and expect to succeed in avoiding the erosion of Christian standards or even basic decency for that matter…

Tally, I really do doff my hat to you as regards your desire to provide a “more clean rock”, but the insuperable difficulty that you have is that rock music per se is inextricably associated with an anti-Christian counter-culture; it is a debased art form that is inseparably wedded to an outlook that is, to cite Lennon’s words again, “anti-religious…and anti-morality”. Sadly, rock music exemplifies man’s fallen nature and his proclivity towards sin and insubordination towards his Creator; its association with and heavy emphais upon violence, anarchy, rebellion, sexual promiscuity, homosexuality, the drug culture, blasphemy, occultism and the like is giving a very certain and unmistakable message that is both loud and clear. In short, rock music iiteself is problematic for a whole variety of reasons and is beyond artistic redemption.

As I am inclined to take a breather from CAF at weekends, I will probably not respond to your response until Monday. In the meanwhile have a spendid weekend.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Portrait]

i am beginning to wonder if there is something to this idea of… uh… there being something “anti-Christ” (?) about listening to rock music too often… and how often is too often??

i listened to this one YES song a few days ago and now i cna’t get the song out of my head… i played some Christian music 2 try to get Christian music to play in my head… and whne i turned it off 2 go do something… that YES song was STILL playing (loudly) in my head… Yikes… couldn’t get it out of my head… :banghead:

and when you have rock lyrics playing in your head… even tho they are pleasant ones and all that… well, you can’t think of Jesus quite as much…

i haven’t sinned, to speak of… unless the aforementioned is a sin…

but still… i kinda miss Jesus… He didn’t leave ( i wouldn’t LET Him) but He doesn’t feel quite as close…

just some thoughts…

probably need to pray some rosaries… can’t spend time in the Real Presence cuz… (long story)… not logistically feasible at ths time…

Dear distracted,

Cordial greetings my dear friend.

It is decidedly wrong for a Christian to befoul his soul (which he ought to value above all else) by listening to that which is morally unwholesome and offensive, which rock music most certainly is.

Even John Lennon admitted that rock music was “anti-religious…and anti-morality”, and by so doing acknowleged what some professing Christians seemingly struggle or are unwilling to acknowledge! It does appear to me that many men are in denial as regards the blatant immorality and unsavoury nature of rock music.

I will pray that God would help you to perceive clearly the evils of rock music and I rejoice that you are, even now, beginning to be exercised concerning this important matter.

If you can, try and secure a copy of Steven Lawhead’s book Rock Reconsidered. It might still be in print to purchase new or you should find a copy in a secondhand religious book store.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[distracted]

…

Tally, I really do doff my hat to you as regards your desire to provide a “more clean rock”, but the insuperable difficulty that you have is that rock music per se is inextricably associated with an anti-Christian counter-culture; it is a debased art form that is inseparably wedded to an outlook that is, to cite Lennon’s words again, “anti-religious…and anti-morality”. Sadly, rock music exemplifies man’s fallen nature and his proclivity towards sin and insubordination towards his Creator; its association with and heavy emphais upon violence, anarchy, rebellion, sexual promiscuity, homosexuality, the drug culture, blasphemy, occultism and the like is giving a very certain and unmistakable message that is both loud and clear. In short, rock music iiteself is problematic for a whole variety of reasons and is beyond artistic redemption.

As I am inclined to take a breather from CAF at weekends, I will probably not respond to your response until Monday. In the meanwhile have a spendid weekend.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

i am not sure its as bad as all that… My favorite rock muscians or bands are the ones that have serous messages about the evils going on in the world… like the Don Henley songs about… well, about how America is decandent… (All she wants to do is dance…etc…) Then there is Eagles song Desperado, which is about not committing to one person… and being very lonely and messed up as result (my paraphrase)…

its not all bad…

i don’t listen to songs about illicit sex and all that other stuff… even if i like the music… heck, the last few days i haven’t listened to any rock music… excpet this one Yes song that won’t get out of my head for some odd reason… I knew i liked the song… .but geeze!!!

anyhow…

 

[distracted]

Dear distracted,

Cordial greetings my dear friend.

It is decidedly wrong for a Christian to befoul his soul (which he ought to value above all else) by listening to that which is morally unwholesome and offensive, which rock music most certainly is.

Even John Lennon admitted that rock music was “anti-religious…and anti-morality”, and by so doing acknowleged what some professing Christians seemingly struggle or are unwilling to acknowledge! It does appear to me that many men are in denial as regards the blatant immorality and unsavoury nature of rock music.

I will pray that God would help you to perceive clearly the evils of rock music and I rejoice that you are, even now, beginning to be exercised concerning this important matter.

If you can, try and secure a copy of Steven Lawhead’s book Rock Reconsidered. It might still be in print to purchase new or you should find a copy in a secondhand religious book store.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

i doubt i will give up rock entirely…

i have not sinned as a result of listening to the rock i was listening to the other day…
if a person knows how to listen to rock… how to take it with a grain of salt… as it were… then there is not a problem…

that said, Jesus told us that if something causes us to stumble… even our foot… cut it off and cast it from us…

i do think its a sin to listen to rock every day… (meaning hard rock, which i guess Yes is… some of their songs are harder than others… I’m not a fan of really hard rock)

there are many songs that have uplifting messages… about things on a little higher level than sex, etc…

 

[VampireQueen]

Music is one of God’s gifts. I read a book somewhere that used Matthew 7:16-18 to answer the question “Is Rock Music evil?”
By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
(Matt 7:16-18)
The book went on to say, So if rock music brought you positive things (Happiness ect.) then it is good fruit for you. But, If it bought you negitive things (Anger, violence, or depression, ect.) Then its bad and you should get rid of it.
I don’t think any music in itself is evil though.

 

[TheWhoFreak]

Dear Tally,

Cordial greetings and my apologies for the delay in replying but I was otherwise engaged.

Shortly before his death, John Lennon said with laudable honesty, “Rock music has got the same message as before. It is anti-religious, anti-nationalistic and anti-morality. But now I understand what you have to do. You have to put the message across with a little honey on it”. Clearly these unnuanced and dispassionate words are most revealing, coming as they do from a man who epitomized hedonistic excess and irreligion, and they could well have been uttered by a Christian moralist. Moreover, many rock performers claim that there is a close connection between rock music sex and It will simply not do to brush this testimony aside as mere worthless and biased opinion, for these rock muscians have no particular axe to grind. Therefore what they say with respect to the rock media ought to be regarded as an authoritative primary souce and as such it should not go unheard.

Just because many people are saying one thing does not mean that what they are all saying is correct. Many people lie and cheat and steal, and the fact that many people do these things does not mean that they are right and moral either. Also, to counter the Lennon quote, what do you have to say about Christian rock? I know that you think rock music in and of itself is sinful, sexual garbage, but have you actually listened to any Christian rock? If not, check out Tenth Avenue North, Jars of Clay, and Hillsong United, they’re all great Christian rock bands. Tell me how ANYTHING they play is sinful or sexual. Also keep in mind that just because something is/was used in an evil way, does not mean that it can never be used for good. For example, pagan religions that existed way before Christianity used wafers of bread in their rituals. The early Christians took this practice and adapted it to their own purposes, what we know as the Eucharist. Now, if we can take something used for sinful pagan stuff and make it part of the most powerful ritual in Catholicism, why isn’t it possible to take rock music and use it for a Christian purpose?

Moreover, their comments provide us with a representative and impartial insight into the world of rock music and thus what they have to say is of the utmost significance when one is seeking to appraise this music genre.

I agree that there are people in the rock genre who do advocate sex, drugs, party life, general sin, etc. What I disagree with is that you use the same brush of sin to tar ALL rock music. Again just because one, or even many, people are saying something does not mean that they ALL agree with it.

Unfortunately, there is no escaping the fact that the majority of rock lyrics are impious and immoral. They portray drugs and sex as an end in themeselves. Moreover, several groups are actively involved in the occult and this surfaces in their music.

So what? What about rock music that doesn’t advocate those things, like Christian rock? Look, I’m well aware that music incites passion, but the Catholic Church teaches that feelings aren’t sinful, not even the most negative of feelings! The sin comes in when we decide to act on our feelings in a sinful way. So the sin isn’t with the feeling, but with the action resulting from the feeling. The feeling itself isn’t sinful.

Thus it is hardly surprising that Steven Lawhead (who is by no means anti-rock music) says, “there is more blatant immorality being peddled in popular music now than ever before” (Rock Reconsidered). Now in the view of most fair-minded men this does not look too good as regards ‘the case for rock music’. On the contrary it would tend to confirm what most impartial observers, not desperate to uphold an indefensible viewpoint, have always suspected, namely, that rock music emanates from an Augean stable of unimaginable filth and deparavity.

And what would this Augean stable be? If you are citing the visons of Our Lady of the Roses (I think that’s what they’re called, not sure) as a source, you need to do better research. The Catholic Church has already stated that these visions do not, repeat, DO NOT apply to everybody. In fact, the Church stated that, in effect, these visions have no authority and should not be believed except for the person who received the vision (if anyone knows the specific wording of the thing, I’d like to find it).

 

[TheWhoFreak]

In the light of all this a very crucial question needs to answered: can we safely listen to rock music without the slightest risk of getting defiled by its undoubted immoral associations?; “Can a man carry fire in his bosom and his clothes not be burned?” (Proverbs 6; 27). Look we cannot foster an erotic type of music and expect to succeed in avoiding the erosion of Christian standards or even basic decency for that matter.

What is your evidence for rock music being sexual? And since we’re on the subject, what makes Christian rock sexual?

Tally, I really do doff my hat to you as regards your desire to provide a “more clean rock”, but the insuperable difficulty that you have is that rock music per se is inextricably associated with an anti-Christian counter-culture; it is a debased art form that is inseparably wedded to an outlook that is, to cite Lennon’s words again, “anti-religious…and anti-morality”.

And what evidence is there for it being inseperable? You claim to base your arguments on facts, but this, one of your biggest points, is a big-ol’ slab of USDA Grade-A opinion! Let’s hear that evidence.

Sadly, rock music exemplifies man’s fallen nature and his proclivity towards sin and insubordination towards his Creator; its association with and heavy emphais upon violence, anarchy, rebellion, sexual promiscuity, homosexuality, the drug culture, blasphemy, occultism and the like is giving a very certain and unmistakable message that is both loud and clear. In short, rock music iiteself is problematic for a whole variety of reasons and is beyond artistic redemption.

And how does Christian rock fit into all this? How do those bands I mentioned earlier fit into all this?

As I am inclined to take a breather from CAF at weekends, I will probably not respond to your response until Monday. In the meanwhile have a spendid weekend.

You too.

 

[Joe_5859]

Music is one of God’s gifts. I read a book somewhere that used Matthew 7:16-18 to answer the question “Is Rock Music evil?”
By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
(Matt 7:16-18)
The book went on to say, So if rock music brought you positive things (Happiness ect.) then it is good fruit for you. But, If it bought you negitive things (Anger, violence, or depression, ect.) Then its bad and you should get rid of it.
I don’t think any music in itself is evil though.

Are you Simone Simons, or do you just have her name and picture in your signature? Epica is a great band!

 

[distracted]

Are you Simone Simons, or do you just have her name and picture in your signature? Epica is a great band!

***this Simone Simons is making the sign of the devil…

whoever she is… i am not interested… ***

 

[Joe_5859]

this Simone Simons is making the sign of the devil…

whoever she is… i am not interested…

That is not the sign of the devil.

 

[VampireQueen]

this Simone Simons is making the sign of the devil…

whoever she is… i am not interested…

Ummm…It’s really not the sign of the Devil. It is Sign Language for I Love You.

Are you Simone Simons, or do you just have her name and picture in your signature? Epica is a great band!

I’m not Simone…Just a huge fan of Epica.

 

[Joe_5859]

Ummm…It’s really not the sign of the Devil. It is Sign Language for I Love You.

I’m not Simone…Just a huge fan of Epica.

I figured Simone probably wasn’t lurking around CAF, but you never know…