Don't Support Devilish Music(Rock Music)!!!

[rapunzel77]

Do you read this? The more it is like Gregorian Chant the holier the music is! We have a model, a way to tell the sacredness of music itself!

This is not a European vs. the World issue… this is not a race issue (which I might add making accusations about is grave matter) this is an issue of what is sacred and what is profane. If you think there’s no difference between the music of a Christian culture and of a pagan culture, you place little weight on Christianity.

Those quotes were fine in so far as they were discussing Sacred music, ie. stuff that can be sung at Mass. I sing Gregorian chant in a choir almost every week. I love Gregorian chant. However, I will not say that there is no merit in other forms of music that might not “conform” to Gregorian chant.

Discussions like this does end up with the question: is only European music (ie. classical, etc) the only proper form and therefore all others can be discarded because they were not bred originally in a “Christian” culture? This idea is a far cry from what the Church has actually done and said about other forms of music that are prevalent in other cultures. Are you forgetting that the Church is universal?

Is it possible to have an authentic expression of the Catholic faith in the context of another culture that is not originally European? Surely it is possible, isn’t it? After all, drums are used in Africa and in Mexico, Aztec type of music is used. The Church seems to not have a problem with that.

 

[Shin]

Those quotes were fine in so far as they were discussing Sacred music, ie. stuff that can be sung at Mass. I sing Gregorian chant in a choir almost every week. I love Gregorian chant. However, I will not say that there is no merit in other forms of music that might not “conform” to Gregorian chant.

.

No one has said there is no merit in other forms of music… but that the Gregorian chant and all of its musical structure are the measure against which we determine the sacredness of music. The closer… the holier… the farther the more profane…

Studying this comparison can lead to learning a good deal about music, and what makes it sacred, and what makes it profane. And then you learn, by the effects of sacred vs. profane music, all the more what -is- the difference between the sacred and profane. . and there’s a lifetime’s worth of material for contemplation in that.

Gregorian Chant isn’t ‘European’. It’s of ancient origin and has been and is used worldwide throughout the universal Church. It is the cultural heritage of all nations and cultures with any Catholics in them.

 

[cathdoki]

No one has said there is no merit in other forms of music… but that the Gregorian chant and all of its musical structure are the measure against which we determine the sacredness of music. The closer… the holier… the farther the more profane…

Studying this comparison can lead to learning a good deal about music, and what makes it sacred, and what makes it profane. And then you learn, by the effects of sacred vs. profane music, all the more what -is- the difference between the sacred and profane. . and there’s a lifetime’s worth of material for contemplation in that.

Gregorian Chant isn’t ‘European’. It’s of ancient origin and has been and is used worldwide throughout the universal Church. It is the cultural heritage of all nations and cultures with any Catholics in them.

And there is nothing wrong with profane. It means outside of religion. The Star Spangled Banner is profane.

 

[distracted]

So, we just listen to songs only about Jesus or whatever Catholic church related and burn or disregard all other choices?

Don’t get me wrong, there is a time and place for such music (and there are many of us who should make time for that too) but I don’t think we should trash the songs artist put their hearts into whether it be gregorian chant, orchestrational, jazz, j-pop, and/or (dare I say it, despite not listening to much of it) rock on the basis that it isn’t Catholic in nature or in message, ESPECIALLY if said song is of another culture different from the Catholic one,

don’t u/standthis post…

i never said anything like that…

that song by Yes is NOT about Jesus… didn’t say it was…

(well, as far as I KNOW it isn’t…)

i just like dedicating songs to Jesus that aren’t normally dedicated to Him… cus the words… sound like things i wnat to say to HIm… He is the only who really loves anyone…

and his love is the only love that can DO much for anyone… really help the person…

so why not give Him all that adoration… any way we can… …?

 

[itrytofight]

To distracted: Sorry for putting words in your mouth, must’ve taken it the other way . I guess I can agree with you in some types of music, not all however.

To Shin: I take Cathdoki and repunzel77’s position on this. Music closer to the “basics” may be better, but I rather not take St. Francis’s position, according to G.K. Chesterton in his book Saint Francis of Assisi, which is to embrace Catholicism and throw everything else away.

Not everything that is far apart from Catholicism is trash, because it holds a bit of good in it whether it is known or not. I mean, isn’t this sort of how we got All Saint’s Day and Christmas (both former Pagan holidays).

On Another note, here is where I stand on the issue (my personal taste):

Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner: Gregorian Chant, Orchestrational, Classical, Choir, some hybrid of the four with another genre.

Healthy Snack: Jazz, some Rock, J-Pop, cultural music, some Pop, Country, some techno, some Hip Hop, Pop Rock, etc.

Junk Food/Unhealthy: Anything that has no rhythm or beat, that induces headaches, or slanders God or anything good in God’s eyes.

You get the idea.

One last thing, when I typed “hybrid” I meant music like Kazushige Nojima, Noriko Matsueda, Takahito Eguchi, and Kumi Koda’s 1000 Words as well as Akira Senju’s To Be King

1000 Words
youtube.com/watch?v=zZ4yoRhVVNs&feature=related

To Be King
youtube.com/watch?v=hdp_g-RYjQI

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Music forms an essential part of many religions. Some of the pagan religions of Rome had many dances and fast paced rhythms to bring people into ‘ecstacy’ as part of their worship. So too, voodoo, hoodoo, shamanism, animism, the drums, the heavy beat… these all are part of bringing the worshipper into a state of control by the music, and control by the spirits worshipped – demons in these cases, of course.

That has more to do with the purpose the people had for the music and not the music itself. It can be used and mixed in different ways. Furthermore, you classicists with your railings about “driving beats” have barely any scientific proof to back you up (as we have already demonstrated).

You know what I think of when I hear tribal music? The tribe! (Be it Native American, African, South American, Ifugao, Aborigine etc.) You know what I think of when I hear Arabian-style music? The Middle East of A Thousand and One Nights (sings Arabian Niiiiiiights!!). Chinese music? Last one I heard made me think of myself (as my wizarding self-insert) sparring with a fantasy kung-fu version of my hot-headed brat of a little brother. (He just happens to like watching kung-fu movies and Avatar so I thought I’d try to put 'em together. )

So, speaking generally, just because you view a certain kind of music as an essential part of your culture, doesn’t mean it actually is something you should be finding praiseworthy. Anymore than rap music should be considered some sort of essential part of black culture and praiseworthy. No, it isn’t.

Are you kidding me? As much as I hate the themes of a lot of rap songs, put a theme that’s worth putting and man you have a form of music that rivals rock in expressing the very essence of urban life in the 21st century. Your so-called “Christian culture” is actually reminiscent of an outdated time where common people had no rights, blind servitude to a mortal king, and chivalry wasn’t really as glamorous as the bards painted. I once did say that the only time I’ll ever live in a culture like that is if you had thrown in RPG style fantasy elements (e.g. neutral magic).

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Gregorian Chant isn’t ‘European’. It’s of ancient origin and has been and is used worldwide throughout the universal Church. It is the cultural heritage of all nations and cultures with any Catholics in them.

Lol, sorry but just lol. Please do not let your love for a particular kind of music blind you to the facts.

The name Gregorian chant points to Gregory the Great (590-604), to whom a pretty constant tradition ascribes a certain final arrangement of the Roman chant. It is first met in the writings of William of Hirschau, though Leo IV (847-855) already speaks of the cantus Sti. Gregorii. The tradition mentioned was questioned first by Pierre Gussanville, in 1675, and again, in 1729, by George, Baron d’Eckhart, neither of whom attracted much attention. In modern times Gevaert, president of the Brussels music school, has tried to show, with a great amount of learning, that the compilation of the Mass music belongs to the end of the seventh or the beginning of the eighth century. His arguments led to a close investigation of the question, and at present practically all authorities, including, besides the Benedictines, such men as Wagner, Gastoue, and Frere, hold that the large majority of plain-chant melodies were composed before the year 600.

Seeing as how not much of that musical tradition hasn’t changed from its original European form, it is European no matter how you slice it. Furthermore, on what authority do you claim that your rose-tinted view of medieval Europe is the cultural heritage of all Catholics (even including Catholics whose countries suffered under such imperialism)?

Lost Wanderer, LOL…definitely continue…

You asked for it.

Paladin: Such a hellish roar…

Wizard: Oh great… -_-;;

<Seconds later, the ground shakes and a giant red oni comes storming in. In its hand is a young, screaming maiden.>

Oni: GRAAAAH!!! D8<

Girl: Kyaaaah! Save me! DX

Paladin: What on earth…sees girl LAURA!! D8> glares at Wizard You! points sword at him I know not what manner of demon your minion is, but once I’ve slain it, you shall foll-

<The wizard ignores her and makes twirling motions with his fingers. Suddenly, sparks bolts spark and two DMC-style hand guns appear in his hands>

Wizard: Hmph. fires a rapid volley of Magic Missile shots at oni’s face

Paladin: What!? ?

Sudden Voice: I-keeeee!!!

Oni: HRRRNGHH!?!? arm holding maiden is suddenly severed by unseen blade

Girl: Waaah!! DX is suddenly snatched by fast moving shadow

<Yet another background music plays. XD>

Wizard: sighs and looks at new character >B(

Paladin: gasps a were-cat! D8

Ninja: Yosh! 8D puts girl on the ground and rushes back at oni Ikuze, ikuze, ikuze!! >8D forms hand seals

Paladin: A foreign were-cat! D8>

Ninja: leaps up Koori N(name removed by moderator)ou: Kaze no Shirayuki!! blows a stream of icy wind from her mouth

Oni: HRRRGGHH!!! D8< is frozen at the feet, severed arm, and elbow but not fully immobilized

Wizard: Hey. calls to Paladin If that’s your sister, take her and beat it. You’ll just get in our way.

Paladin: I beg your pardon!? D8< As a paladin in charge of protecting the Church and the Kingdom, I cannot allow either you two or this creature to roam free! You do not command me! readies to fight monster

Ninja: Yatta! ^^ grins at frosted oni

Oni: GRAH!! breaks free from ice

Ninja: Eeeeh!? D8>

Wizard: Fine, have it your way then… -_- twirls guns and readies too

<Battle Music Starts. Initiate Monster Encouter! XD>

Okay, I guess that’s enough of my geekiness for today. Hopefully this has proven my point that music isn’t always guaranteed to put the same thing in people’s heads. Yeah, TLM music is good indeed… for starting a chain reaction towards scenes with more “profane” music.

 

[Benthook2]

Amos Chapter 6; 4-7

Use your own judgement 'nuff said!

 

[dontknow]

….nor methods of music are created equal, or of equal value…

…Plenty of bad music forms a large part of many cultures…

… drums, the heavy beat… these all are part of bringing the worshipper into a state of control by the music, and control by the spirits worshipped – demons in these cases, of course…

…just because you view a certain kind of music as an essential part of your culture, doesn’t mean it actually is something you should be finding praiseworthy. Anymore than rap music should be considered some sort of essential part of black culture and praiseworthy…

These are all opinion statements. As Duke Ellington said - only two kinds of music - good and bad.

As a jazz/funk drummer who thrives on a driving beat - according to your definition - I’m in trouble.

It’s music - you chose your definition of good and bad - and let everyone else chose their’s.

 

[benny_f]

Is this not fundamentalism to the extreme?

They’re just songs, I read plenty of scientific based magazines, many which refute the existence of God, but does this mean it has shaken my faith? Ah no.

People aren’t perfect, and I dare anyone to show me that they are strict Catholics, because if you followed every rule down to the last detail, you’d be homeless.

 

[Joe_5859]

Is this not fundamentalism to the extreme?

They’re just songs, I read plenty of scientific based magazines, many which refute the existence of God, but does this mean it has shaken my faith? Ah no.

People aren’t perfect, and I dare anyone to show me that they are strict Catholics, because if you followed every rule down to the last detail, you’d be homeless.

Welcome to CAF, benny_f!

I appreciate the sentiment, but I wouldn’t take it this far. Certainly, we are all sinners, but there is nothing in Church teaching that necessitates us being homeless (just as there is nothing in Church teaching that says rock music is evil).

 

[itrytofight]

I have to say that I like the last example compared to the other two.

But what about these examples right here, which combine guitar solos and drumming with the orchestra?

Diapason
youtube.com/watch?v=6_p4MEGchMU

The Final Oveture
youtube.com/watch?v=yiPlqlIGCtM&feature=related

Contact
youtube.com/watch?v=rnBaFjK16hs&feature=related

THANK YOU Mr. Nakanishi!

 

[distracted]

This is an excellent point! I do this ALL THE TIME with music. Fortunately, many musicians write their lyrics in a style just vague enough so that people can adapt the meaning to their own lives. [Side note to Joe and other power metal fans: Sonata Arctica is a perfect example of this. Tony has told me on numerous occasions that he intentionally writes that way and he goes so far as to not even explaining his meaning - in interviews or in private - because he doesn’t want to ruin the listeners’ meaning.]

A perfect example for me is Helloween’s I.M.E… I know they probably meaning this as a statement against proper society and organized religion, but I use this song as my statement against the depravity of American culture: I am me (that is, a Catholic) and I reject the sin society wants me to revel in.

Chorus:
I am me
Who do you think you are
To tell me what to be
I am me
No matter what you say
Today I keep my way
I am me

never even heard of Halloween… but i like those lyrics… i feel like saying that to people sometimes… family, friends (oh, that’s right… don’t have any of those… well… you know… those who should be friends but don’t like me cuz i love Jesus “too much”… )

I am me…

 

[cthulhubryan]

Ride of the Valkyrie! One of the most moving and motivating pieces of music ever written!!!

 

[Grizzly20]

What do you think about Christian rock and metal?
I found this [non-Catholic] website logosresourcepages.org/Music/rock.htm and now I’m not sure, if Christian rock and metal are good…
Is Pope Benedict XVI really against rock and metal?

 

[itrytofight]

I’m not one to agree on “Ride of the Valkyrie”. Not my favorite piece and I also think it didn’t work with that one movie with the Hueys attacking a Viet Cong held village.

It just doesn’t have that feeling for the scene.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’m not one to agree on “Ride of the Valkyrie”. Not my favorite piece and I also think it didn’t work with that one movie with the Hueys attacking a Viet Cong held village.

It just doesn’t have that feeling for the scene.

I don’t think we have to like something to determine a driving beat. However, I share your sentiments regarding not just Ride of the Valkyrie but a lot of other classical pieces. (Though in my case, trying to recall Wagner’s piece makes me think of the the Ghostly Trio descending in the kitchen.)

 

[Returning_Home]

I’m gonna be frank here when I say that this is the most brain-dead thing I’ve ever heard of. While the Beach Boys, the Beatles, Pink Floyd, the Eagles and the like all suck for different reasons, they are far from satanic. And the generic label of rock and roll is also a misnomer since it’s a catch-all for everything that’s not another genre. This also doesn’t count the fact that real rock and roll died before Buddy Holly did.

Music with satanic undertones never got air play; that was just a ploy that parents used against their children’s natural rebellion.

This, however, is satanic and makes no excuses about it; no backwards hidden tracks or messages, just what the band had on its mind:

youtube.com/watch?v=B0TXXMtvovI

 

[LilyM]

Ride of the Valkyrie! One of the most moving and motivating pieces of music ever written!!!

Ahh, yeah …

HO-JO-TO-HO!!! :knight2:

 

[Grizzly20]

AFAIK nazis had to listen to Wagner’s music and he was anti-Semite >:/