Don't Support Devilish Music(Rock Music)!!!

[Portrait]

I have to laugh at this one since you’re trying to condemn Hendrix (whom I do like, one of the two or three greatest left-handed guitarists of all time) with Biblical verses, citing his use of ‘cannibis,’ as if it that’s the worst thing in the world. I’m not a pot head and haven’t been for well over a decade but doesn’t Genesis 1:12 or so say that God gave us all of the seed bearing plants and herbs to use?

And since he claimed to have seen this or that doesn’t really mean anything because he was high on a regular basis so we can’t rust much of what he said there.

Excess alcohol? Yeah, he passed out and choked on his own vomit, so he paid the price for his excesses.

You’re trying to make something out of nothing here and not really succeeding because being a drug addict or alcoholic satanic music does not make. The two have no proven or even implied correlation.

Dear Returning Home,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for the above response.

As regards Jimi Hendrix his own dissolute lifestyle witnesses against him and thus it does not really require me to denounce him. My purpose in drawing attention to his profligate life, which you do not deny, was because it appears that some Catholics are either unaware of it or at any rate believe it to be inconsequential. They are quite happy to listen to the music of a man who was infamous for his excesses. Nevertheless, here was a man who was exceedingly manipulative: “Atmospheres are going to come through music, because the music is a spiritual thing of its own. You can hypnotize people with the music and when you get them at their weakest point you can preach into the subconscious what you want to say”. This statement of his is quite telling as he was essentially saying that rock music is an ideal vehicle for individual or mass hypnosis. Now Hendrix may have been one of the most influential and dynamic artist’s in rock music history, but do good Christian men really want to pollute their minds with the music of his type of character?

As regards any natural substance there is such a thing as correct and incorrect useage, which is why we have, here in the U.K., statutes such as the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. Cannabis is a highly dangerous mind controlling drug and so is obviously in an an entirely different category altogether to parsley, sage rosemary and thyme.

There *is *decidely a clear and close connection between between rock performers who take mind controlling drugs and their musical compositions. Much of the music that emerged out the so called hippie movement of the late 1960’s encouraged the young to to get turned on to drugs, whilst others included drug-related lyrics without comment - and the lead came from the higher reaches of rock. Thus the Beatles record-breaking album ‘Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely hearts Club Band’ was described by Time magazine as ‘drenched in drugs’ and one of the songs on the album, ‘Magical Mystery Tour’ invited the listners, ‘Roll up your sleeve, roll up your sleeve, the magical mystery tour is coming to take you away’. When Grace Slik (Jefferson Airplane) wrote the drug song White Rabbit, everyone knew that she was speaking of LSD and “tripping”.

It is inconrovertible that the rock music industry has played a major role in encouraging drug use in general and marijuana in particular. Record companies and music publishers have earned many millions from records extolling the alleged virtues of drugs.

Interestingly during the Vietnam war, the US Government wanted to send a top rock group to entertain the troops, but had possible bands screened first to ensure that they were clear of drugs. No surprises. The plan had to be abandoned because a ‘clean’ group simply could not be found. That is very telling indeed; no matter what anyone says, drugs will always be a part of the rock scene and are, undeniably, a necessary ingredient for many a rock musician. As we all know there is a tragic list of those in the rock media who have died prematurely as the result of drugs; Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Al Wilson (Canned heat), Gram Parsons and Gary Thain (Uriah Heep), Keith Moon (The Who), Tommy Bolin (Deep Purple) Sid Vicious (Sex Pistols) Lowell George (Little Feat) among them. Now does a Christian who is seeking to keep himself “unstained by the world” (S. James 1: 27) really wish to become associated with and support a world that is drenched in drugs and where needles and pills are considered to be a normal way of life, or should I say a way of death?

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[MichaelR]

Don’t wanna close my eyes! Don’t wanna faaaaal asleeep cos I’d miss ya babe! And I don’t wanna miss a thing! Cos even when I dreeeaaaAAAMM OF YOU! The sweetest dream will never do! Cos I miss ya babe and I don’t wanna miss a thiiing! Ahhh! Ahh…ahhh! Don’t wanna miss a thing!

:clapping:

 

[Returning_Home]

I don’t think it’s so much slanted as it is realistic. I admire Hendrix for his musical ability only, not for his lifestyle. Yes, he had problems that plagued him throughout his life which likely influenced his music.

As far as being different from the norm in popular music and psychedelia in particular in that he was a supporter of the war in Vietnam (possibly because of his unsuccessful year-long stint in the military), which put him into quite the minority in that era.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Well I bet its better than a song that makes one think of magically transforming school girls. >_>;;

Honestly, if they didn’t prove my theory about the arbitrary nature of music, I’d be completely averse to posting any link to the kind of music geeks listen to… even though I’m also one of them. >_<;;

Sometimes I even wonder if they’re so offensive to the tastes of the connoisseurs here that they don’t even click them. T_T

 

[NewsTheMan]

Nevertheless, here was a man who was exceedingly manipulative: “Atmospheres are going to come through music, because the music is a spiritual thing of its own. You can hypnotize people with the music and when you get them at their weakest point you can preach into the subconscious what you want to say”. This statement of his is quite telling as he was essentially saying that rock music is an ideal vehicle for individual or mass hypnosis.

… wow.

What on earth are you talking about? I have never in my life come across someone who creates such bizarre connections and just cannot seperate the music from the musician.

You do know that there is dispute over Beethovens death right? And it mainly centres on if he died from alcohol abuse or sexually transmitted disease. Oooooh…

Now comes the defense of Beethoven and how in this case we can seperate the music from the musician.

You need to do Philosophy 101 and see the flaws in your arguments. They are glaring.

 

[Portrait]

… wow.

What on earth are you talking about? I have never in my life come across someone who creates such bizarre connections and just cannot seperate the music from the musician.

You do know that there is dispute over Beethovens death right? And it mainly centres on if he died from alcohol abuse or sexually transmitted disease. Oooooh…

Now comes the defense of Beethoven and how in this case we can seperate the music from the musician.

You need to do Philosophy 101 and see the flaws in your arguments. They are glaring.

Dear NewsTheMan,

Cordial greetings again and hope all is well dear friend.

The sad fact is that many leading rock performers have made adultery, fornication, lesbianism, homosexuality or some other form sexual deviation, in addition to drug abuse, a way of life. Indeed, press reports have made their sordid sex lives common knowledge, to such an extent that they scarcely raise reader’s eyebrows. Nevertheless, sin of every kind is practiced by people of every kind and that is an indisputable fact. No doubt there are dishonest executives, perverted policemen, immoral doctors and, yes, alcoholic classical musicians, but it does not automatically follow that their offences are in any way connected to their occupations. Thus it is not only rock musicians who have murky morals; even some of the best-known classical composers were decidedly off key in their private lives, so I do not intend to whitewash Beethoven (or any other classical composer for that matter) or clear him of any possible humiliating imputations. Clearly, we do need to be very careful before condemning any kind of artistic expression because of the lifestyle of those who write and perform in it. If we took that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion we would be living in a cultural desert.

We could go one step beyond and say that many classical compositions have murder, violence, hatred, greed, immorality or other evils as their themes. However, the point at issue is whether we can single out rock music as having specifically sexual connotations and *specifically *connections with drug abuse and the occultic subculture. Now my previous posts have furnished copious and cogent evidence that we can indeed demonstrate such a connection. In fact I would go so far as to say that my case is so compelling that, and I say this with the utmost respect, only the deaf, uncaring or wholly distracted and worldly would fail to notice it.

From the very beginning rock music has been associated with youth, rebellion against authority and anti-establishmentism. Its suggestive lyrics, rejection of restraints and its celebration of freedom and sexuality is what has made it so appealing to youth; it strikes a chord quite literally and resonates with how the young often feel at that age. Even those who are in the pro-rock camp admit the vulgarity of rock music; thus Robert Pattison perceives that the lyrics are “trite, obscene and idiotic” (The Triumph of Vulgarity: Rock Music in the Mirror of Romanticism, 1987). Incidently, one of the chapters in that book is entitled ‘The Road to Vulgar Excess’, which aptly sums up what rock is all about. Steven Lawhead (who is by no means anti-rock) says in his book, Rock Reconsidered, that ‘there is more blatant immorality being peddled in popular music now than ever before’.

Now the question that needs to be answered is, can we listen to rock music without any danger of getting tainted by its immoral associations? No we most certainly cannot. For how can we foster an erotic type of music and expect to succeed in avoiding the erosion of our standards and ideals. Rock music has a message and it is the message of sexual permissiveness and rebellion. Thus far, I have not read anything from the pro-rockers that convinces me that one can listen to lyrics that are flagrantly immoral and unspeakably pornographic and still remain spiritually unscathed. Indeed, why would any Catholic worth their salt wish to even listen to such debased sensory material in the first place? Moreover, why would any Catholic who values his own soul wish to become immersed in a genre of music that contains so much to disturb any tender Christian conscience, as even its most vociferous supporters acknowledge?

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Portrait]

youtube.com/watch?v=lH6frZc7fuE&feature=related

Undying by Demon Hunter. I invite all to view/listen.

This is a Christian band playing a song with a Christian message (as with all of their songs). They have a heavy metal sound.

Now,

Why is this devilish music?

EDIT:

here’s a link to the lyrics for all interested:
sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Undying-lyrics-Demon-Hunter/6EFB0BE5E83455E5482570A10004ED3A

Dear TheLizardKing,

Cordial greetings and may I warmly welcome you to CAF.

The argument that there is this distinctive difference between so called Christian rock and secular rock is frequently posited and proposed by the pro-rockers. However, it does not stand up to scrutiny as many thoughtful observers acknowledge. Thus rock singer Chuck Girard, for instance, makes this honest admission: “If you took the lyrics away and changed them to a secular message, I don’t think you would be able to tell the music apart from pop, rock-orientated music” (Solid Rock). Now apply these words to your Demon Hunter band and you will see the problem that we have; even if you appended the Lord’s Prayer to some rock music it would not sanitise the music. Professor Verna Wright reported also that when Christian and secular rock records were played in a controlled test held in a Belgian youth club the hearers simply ‘couldn’t tell the difference’ (Evangelism Today, Dec. 1981).

This actually only confirms the contention of the vast majority of Christians (Catholic and Protestant) that rock music is communication without words, irrespective of what idealogy is inserted into the music. The words merely inform one as to what the music is already declaring; the music per se is its own message and it has the power to subvert the meaning of the words.

Rock music is rock music, it is not just some sort of pliable neutral medium that can be bent in any direction. Some art forms, such as rock music, have been created to express certain philosophies and are so wedded to those philosophies that they convey that kind of world-view. Basicly, we cannot simply plug in some Chistian lyrics and assume with blithe indifference that everything will be perfectly fine and that somehow we have ‘redeemed’ rock music from all of its unsavoury associations. It is just not that simple, notwithstanding some very specious arguments which assert that it is. Music is not neutral and as Boethius (c. 384-c 524 BC), the Greek philosopher and statesman wrote, “Music is a part of us, and either ennobles or degrades our behaviour” (De Institutione Musica). The fact that rock music, over the years, has degraded and ruined so many souls would seem to validate his remark.

Rock has, and always will be, ‘sympathy for the devil’ and we ought to avoid it for the moral contagion that it is. St. Paul exhorts us to think on those things that are ‘pure’, ‘lovely’ and all that is virtuous (see Phillip 4: 8). How does rock music meet this holy criteria?; how is rock music neither tainted nor corrupt and free from all debasing elements?

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Returning_Home]

Rock has, and always will be, ‘sympathy for the devil’ and we ought to avoid it for the moral contagion that it is. St. Paul exhorts us to think on those things that are ‘pure’, ‘lovely’ and all that is virtuous (see Phillip 4: 8). How does rock music meet this holy criteria?; how is rock music neither tainted nor corrupt and free from all debasing elements?

It’s sad to see someone so deeply deluded and mislead. Since you’ve essentially compartmentalized all of the world’s problems into the heinous rock music of today (even though true rock and roll no longer exists), your world view is now much neater with something to blame for mankind’s sinful nature.

 

[Portrait]

It’s sad to see someone so deeply deluded and mislead. Since you’ve essentially compartmentalized all of the world’s problems into the heinous rock music of today (even though true rock and roll no longer exists), your world view is now much neater with something to blame for mankind’s sinful nature.

Dear Returning Home,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for your comment above.

Rock music is just one among many of the manifestations of man’s fallen sinful nature and his revolt against his Creator. As our Lord said “the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth evil” (S. Matt. 12: 35); the rebellion, the drugs and the filth and occultic connection are the the “evil” that the rock musicians bring forth out of their “evil treasure” as a consequence of their sinful and depraved hearts. However, that men produce and practice many other evils also I would not stop to deny, it is just that in this thread the subject under review is rock music and so we are focusing on that at the present time.

Trust that helps to clarify my standpoint.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[TheLizardKing]

So, because some rock is bad, all rock is bad?

I believe they call that the hasty generalization fallacy.

and returning home, rock & roll exists, it simply has evolved, as do all other forms of music.

 

[Newbie2]

You assume people here do not philosophize and discern the effects of their music? Again, you assume wrongly.

"You can choose a ready guide in some Celestial voice

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"

-Rush

 

[j1akey]

This thread demands a Picard AND a Riker.

CloudApp — Not Found

 

[Portrait]

So, because some rock is bad, all rock is bad?

I believe they call that the hasty generalization fallacy.

and returning home, rock & roll exists, it simply has evolved, as do all other forms of music.

Dear TheLizardKing,

Cordial greetings and thankyou for your response to my post.

As I have said previously, rock music is communication without words and what it conveys is moral permissiveness, rejection of restraints and rebellion; these are the evil philosophies to which it is inseparably wedded and as such rock music is beyond artistic redemption. So yes the short answer to your question is, all rock is bad because the music iteself is bad, irrespective of what lyrics are appended to it. This is not an ill-considered sweeping generalization, rather a statement of fact and an inescapable conclusion from which it is useless to struggle against.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

 

[Joe_5859]

Hey, we hit 700 posts! Only 297 posts left to settle this issue definitively before the thread gets closed. Let’s get to it!

 

[PassingThru]

Observation to Portrait,

After reading many of your thoughts you posted on this issue, I would be willing to bet that your feelings would be the same if we could transfer you in time to other times of musical/cultural change.

Meaning, if we could take you back to the birth of Jazz, you have the same things to say. Southern Blues, same reaction. If we took you to the “Big Band” era, holy cow, you would have a field day with the beats and the dancing, oh, and the hats!!!

I don’t think you have a problem with most of this music now, as it is most decidedly “low key” by modern standards. It just seems we have you developing your opinions here, in this time, and it was “rock & roll” that was the rebellious music during your formative years.

Your posts seem to have this all inclusive nature to them. All of rock & roll is lumped together. All “Christians” are lumped together as a soft, mailable, impressionable bunch. (I seem to remember the term “tender” now that I think about it). What I really hear, however, is your own fears or insecurities. Your claims against most every form of music, and your adherent calls of the vulnerabilities of Christians really makes me think you might just be really insecure on this whole issue.

Maybe I am totally off base, but some of these strident rallies against music raises a red flag to me. (I could go back and pick some of your best colorful language, but I think you get the idea…)

 

[Kassandra]

 

[Kassandra]

This thread demands a Picard AND a Riker.

CloudApp — Not Found

It surely does. :harp:

 

[Joe_5859]

It surely does. :harp:

Yes, except with the combo of the large picture, my old-fashioned square monitor, and my setting of 100 posts per page, I’m going to be sideways-scrolling to read the next 90+ posts in this thread. Thanks a lot, j1akey!

 

[NewsTheMan]

all rock is bad because the music iteself is bad

Ah. We get to the root of it all. You just don’t like rock.

I agree with Returning Home. It is sad to see someone so deluded. Who truly thinks that a form of music conveys drug usage and Satanic occult and rebellion etc etc etc. It is not intrinsically about that and it NEVER can be. Just as any medium can be intrinsically evil. Are sound waves evil? A reductionist approach dismantles your argument. For the whole is not greater than its parts. In fact, many different things dismantle your argument. Subjectivity is the name of the game. I can call a lot of varieties of music rock. Lump it all together!

Here’s a mindboggler for you! What about Yngwie Malmsteem - Neo-Classicalist? i.e. he plays Classical music using modern instruments. All of a sudden… your precious Classical music is now being played and it sounds like rock. Then what? Is it classical? Is it rock? Aaaah!

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Here’s a mindboggler for you! What about Yngwie Malmsteem - Neo-Classicalist? i.e. he plays Classical music using modern instruments. All of a sudden… your precious Classical music is now being played and it sounds like rock. Then what? Is it classical? Is it rock? Aaaah!

You haven’t even tried throwing in foreign music. Let’s see him try to clear that up. Oh wait, has anyone even addressed those?