Don't understand marriage

[tinalewis]

Oh gosh, there’s so much more to marriage than sex. Maybe it feels so because I’m middle-aged.

No, I believe I really thought that even as a newlywed.

It feels so good to be half of a couple. I know that I can always count on my husband being there for me. And he’s part of my extended family and I’m part of his.

But I think the biggest part of me was how freeing being married feels. I want to shout “Hey world, I’m freeeeeeeee!” And it did right from the beginning - maybe even from our wedding day. The two most freeing days of my life were my wedding day and the day I became Catholic. The next most-freeing day was when Steve became Catholic this Easter Vigil.

So, Turtle18, all the commentary I can offer is that if it feels like the most freeing thing you could ever imagine - and that all your life up until this point has been like prison - then you can be sure you’ve made the right decision about your vocation.

 

[HAP0623]

When I think of marriage, I dont really think of it as just sex and kids. I think of traveling together, coming home to someone after a tough day at work, someone to talk to pretty much, and the second income isnt bad either. I think the best image I have is one day when I was at work, this old man, must of been in his 80’s or 90’s walked around his car and opened the door for his wife and walked arm in arm all through the store. It was so sweet that they are there to take care of eachother, and you can just see how much they cared for eachother.

 

[EasterJoy]

Benefits, oh my goodness. Being married to your best friend, someone who makes you laugh, who holds you up when you are weak, who is with you through life’s peaks and valleys. Someone who supports you, believes in you, encourages you. Someone to celebrate the joys with and hold each other through the sorrows. Someone who prays for you and with you.

Intimacy is knowing the words your spouse will say before they say them, know what a certain smile means, being able to share your heart with another without fear of judgment or ridicule. To share a look and not needs words.

To be co-creators with God, to see your husband’s smile in your child’s face and know that without the love that you shared this unique beautiful child of God that you gave birth too would not exist exactly as she is.

Sexual intimacy is a wonderful gift but there’s far more than just that in marriage. And children, they teach you a whole knew meaning of love, of sacrifice, of unselfishness. And they create a bond in marriage that is unique.

The only reason is sex and children? No, far from it. A deep love shared between a man and a woman-that is supposed to mirror Christ’s love for his church. There just aren’t enough words or maybe I can find strong enough ones to describe the benefits of marriage for those that have such a vocation.

This is excellent. I know some happily married people who never saw that until they actually met their spouses, though. And until they had children, they never imagined that all the “downsides” like cleaning up vomit and getting up in the middle of the night for feedings would be such non-issues. When it became the thing to do, they just did it. Taken with the joys, it seems like such a small thing.

I know some other people who are “looking for a husband” or “looking for a wife”. The way these particular people I have in mind talk about that is a little scary to me. I think they’d take on the wrong person as if a human being can be a “fixer upper” instead of waiting until the right person comes along. I wouldn’t fix them up on a blind date with anyone I was particularly fond of.

I also know people with religious vocations who essentially cannot imagine another individual person being able to replace their love for everybody in general, or the general support they get from their religious community or circle of support. That’s not that they don’t “get” marriage. It is that, for them, the love that is part and parcel of their vocation couldn’t be replaced by a single person or even a whole family.

Maybe the OP fits in that third group.

 

[turtle18]

I also know people with religious vocations who essentially cannot imagine another individual person being able to replace their love for everybody in general, or the general support they get from their religious community or circle of support. That’s not that they don’t “get” marriage. It is that, for them, the love that is part and parcel of their vocation couldn’t be replaced by a single person or even a whole family.

Maybe the OP fits in that third group.

That could be what it is. Every part of my life is fulfilled by my relationship with Christ. I feel like I am betraying Christ when I look at men or am attracted to a man. But since marriage is in God’s divine plan, how can that be? So when I try to visualize marriage, the only benefit I can see in it is sex & children but I know if that is the case, then I am objectifying the man & lusting after him, instead of treating him in a loving manner.

I know both sets of my grandparents, and my parents had a boatload of children and they slept in separate bedrooms. So I don’t believe it is necessary to sleep together–this seems to be some sort of expectation set by modern society. I know my grandmother use to sacrifice going to daily Mass to allow my grandfather to attend. And I think, “would I do that for my husband?” Would I allow him to go to Mass if it meant I had to stay home? And I don’t think I would.

 

[distracted]

I know; it really is so sad how short some marriages are and how many families are separated. That’s why we need stronger marriages founded on the Truth. If more people knew and loved Jesus, they would see what a good marriage is. (At least, that’s what I notice…the weak marriages usually include those who are weak in their faith…once you can surrender yourself fully to Jesus, it will be a piece of cake to surrender yourself to a spouse.)

God Bless

i was enjoying this post until you ruined it with that last sentence… .

because i have been surrendering to Jesus for many years now and if anything, it seems even harder to surrender to a human, esp a man!! (the men i’ve known)…

In a way i think its harder because once you know the love of Christ, well, there just isn’t anything to compare to it… and so… you get so you can’t handle… certain human “weaknesses”… like a man wnating you to look like Michelle Pfiefer… and have the heart of Mohter Teresa… or something like that…

with Jesus, you have someone who loves you just as you are…

tough act to follow… for sure…

 

[Salonika]

nablaise:

I think marriage is about living the fullness of human vocation.

Yes, for some people but not for others. Considering it to be so also has the connotation that those who do not marry are living an inferior life - unless they choose the priesthood or become a religious.

nablaise:

Becoming married is like confirmation of having achieved full capacities of a human being.

What is more important is how the marriage turns out - do both parties live full and satisfying lives and are they good parents to any children they have. Are they honest and loyal to each other?

I don’t think that marrying and putting the wedding on turns a person into an adult - do those who never do never grow up?

What about those who never had the chance to marry? There are many threads on CAF which show the difficulty many people have in funding a suitable spouse. Then there are others who put other obligations eg looking after elderly parents, their siblings children when their parents separate, before marriage.

nablaise:

That is in growing from the moment of conception we keep adding parts and things in our being…until we stops growing. At the marriage state, it is like the confirmation that we have ‘arrived’ because finally the male and female came together and we have Man as God made him (the end for which God made Man).

I don’t think we ever stop learning - whether we are 3, 13, 33, 63, or 93. Also think it is dangerous to ever thing “we have arrived”, there are always things to improve, new things to try, new people to meet, new challenges to overcome.

Our challenge is not to be a married but to be living the life we are meant to be living. If you are not being true to yourself how can you be true to your spouse?

 

[lil_flower_luv]

i was enjoying this post until you ruined it with that last sentence… .

because i have been surrendering to Jesus for many years now and if anything, it seems even harder to surrender to a human, esp a man!! (the men i’ve known)…

In a way i think its harder because once you know the love of Christ, well, there just isn’t anything to compare to it… and so… you get so you can’t handle… certain human “weaknesses”… like a man wnating you to look like Michelle Pfiefer… and have the heart of Mohter Teresa… or something like that…

with Jesus, you have someone who loves you just as you are…

tough act to follow… for sure…

True, but I think if your spouse is the right spouse, they will try everyday to be more like Jesus, and therefore, it would be like surrendering your heart to Him too, right?

 

[distracted]

True, but I think if your spouse is the right spouse, they will try everyday to be more like Jesus, and therefore, it would be like surrendering your heart to Him too, right?

i was in the Real Presence some time ago and it was shown to me very clearly that i could never EVER marry someone who did not also spend time in the Real Presence. If i had never known the Real Presence, i would not be saying this but the RP has changed me… probably more than even i begin to realize…

Whoever i sleep with… live with… would have to spend time There … and lots of it. Yet not many of either gender seem to do this (in my world)…

What a waste… Jesus comes to us in a tangible way… and we just go about our lives as though He were … well, irrelevent, evne… :hypno:

 

[anode]

i was in the Real Presence some time ago and it was shown to me very clearly that i could never EVER marry someone who did not also spend time in the Real Presence. If i had never known the Real Presence, i would not be saying this but the RP has changed me… probably more than even i begin to realize…

Whoever i sleep with… live with… would have to spend time There … and lots of it. Yet not many of either gender seem to do this (in my world)…

What a waste… Jesus comes to us in a tangible way… and we just go about our lives as though He were … well, irrelevent, evne… :hypno:

Are you sure that you want to marry, versus religious life, in an order which emphasizes adoration?

 

[Norseman82]

But I am wondering, what are the other benefits to married life? It seems like all I hear about is the sexual union but what else is there?

usccb.org/laity/marriage/menwomeneng.shtml

 

[D_Hall]

I feel like I am betraying Christ when I look at men or am attracted to a man. But since marriage is in God’s divine plan, how can that be? So when I try to visualize marriage, the only benefit I can see in it is sex & children but I know if that is the case, then I am objectifying the man & lusting after him, instead of treating him in a loving manner.

turtle, that is exactly how I feel alot of times. Except i’m a guy. and I haven’t figured anything out yet either.

 

[turtle18]

turtle, that is exactly how I feel alot of times. Except i’m a guy. and I haven’t figured anything out yet either.

What you are attracted to men? Or do you mean you feel that way about women? Not to be sexist, but it is accepted that men who are discerning priesthood will go through this type of struggle. But females are “suppose to be above that!” The only sister I ever talked to told me the vow of celibacy was hard “because she couldn’t have children.” Not because she was lusting after men.

 

[D_Hall]

hahahaha no. I like women.

but my discernment has gotten me so confused I don’t know what to do or to want anymore.

 

[BrokenFortress]

I’m not married, but am well on my way to be married (been with my boyfriend for 4.5 years and talk about marriage probably next year some time)

For me, marriage is a way to spend the rest of my life with my best friend. My boyfriend is my best friend. I enjoy every minute I spend with him, and just want to continue getting to know him better.
Also, it allows us to grow in our faith together. When I met my boyfriend, he was Catholic and I was Lutheran. I then became Catholic a year into our relationship. Still to this day, 3 years later, we still talk about faith. We go to Mass together. It’s just so great to spend time at church and talking about God with someone who feels the same way about the faith as you. And I really have come to appreciate the time spent at church together. We currently live 4 hours apart so I spend many Sundays at Mass by myself. This has allowed me to see the greatness in spending time at Mass together as a family really. We both have helped each other grow in our faith and I know this will only continue the more time we’re together.

So I know that’s not everything to a marriage, but it’s just a small insight into what I think.

 

[nablaise]

Yes, for some people but not for others. Considering it to be so also has the connotation that those who do not marry are living an inferior life - unless they choose the priesthood or become a religious.

Hi, I just noticed that you are not catholic (you said ‘nil’…).
Well, actually when you look deeper into catholic understanding of life. Priests and other consecrated religious are married.

What is more important is how the marriage turns out - do both parties live full and satisfying lives and are they good parents to any children they have. Are they honest and loyal to each other?

I don’t think that marrying and putting the wedding on turns a person into an adult - do those who never do never grow up?

What about those who never had the chance to marry? There are many threads on CAF which show the difficulty many people have in funding a suitable spouse. Then there are others who put other obligations eg looking after elderly parents, their siblings children when their parents separate, before marriage.

Actually I am among those who have given priority to supporting siblings. I have given priority to rising my little sister that some interesting relationships may have passed me by… Yet, I feel like though I sacrifice myself for this, it is not really as fully as it would be when I am irrevocably engaged to someone…

Also, I didnt’ mean that once married we stop growing. Well, I developped this thought from sermons I heard which were explaining marriage from the Jesus verses of the ‘seed which dies and bear fruits’. We too are really fruits, and when married, we experience the fruitfulness of a fruit that has died and given up its seed to grow a tree.

As we know, When a seed is sawn, we can say that it is the end of life as a ‘seed’ but a quite new begining of a new life as a tree. This is true for both holy matrimony and holy orders.

What you said about people who can’t seem to find a match is interesting. Well, sometimes It seems to me that I am one of them. Does it mean that they are not ready? perhaps. That’s what I tell myself. I think if I was ready, God would present her to me…
Anyway, I always discover new things about marriage, and tell myself that it is great to know them before I am married. I am now 29. Sometimes I feel old, but when I think to what the Lord thought me through the past years, I think that perhaps I should be glad I did not rush into things - sometimes I think I am too cautious -
Because though I said that I prioritized taking care of my sibling, I think this was really no obstacle to meeting a good person and building a relationship. I always thought that taking care of siblings/parents is not an obstacle to meeting the right person. Because in all charity, the right person should be able to handle the situation. I actually found it a blessing because it helped me to see who have a true love or who is just interested in other things…

God bless

 

[turtle18]

hahahaha no. I like women.

but my discernment has gotten me so confused I don’t know what to do or to want anymore.

Sorry…it is just that there are so many guys who post on here that they are gay & want to be a priest.

Keep praying & the answer will become clearer. Discernment isn’t a one month or one year process.

 

[Charbeau]

I am female. Maybe I am just emotionally closed off or whatever. I’ve read some of the Catholic church teachings on marriage and it seems sooooooooooo far from reality of what I have ever seen out there. Then there is so much emphasis on sex. I think that in times past, sex was an important part of marriage for sure, but couples maybe only had sex once or twice a month. They had a much more developed marriage in all aspects of their life.

Nowadays, it seems like it is all sex, all the time. Even the Catholic church seems to play in this (unconciously) by promoting NFP–the whole goal in being able to have sex while minimizing the chances of getting pregnant. Really it seems like sex is expected very frequently almost to the point where it becomes obsessive. I think about the animal kingdom and how animals only have sex when the female is in heat, ovulating & ready to bear offspring.

First, every single marriage has different sexual patterns. To suggest that people in times past had less sex and more “developed” marriages and marriages now are solely based on sex is rather ridiculous, especially coming from someone who isn’t married! Sex in marriage isn’t static, it can go through highs and lows of importance, the reason it is discussed so much is that at times it can be more important to one spouse than the other and that causes friction. The fact that Catholics now feel more free to discuss sex and issues relating to sex in marriage than people used to do because of societal constraints does not mean historically sex was “managed” better in marriage than it is now.

I married 10 years ago, at age 21, long before I became Catholic and had any understanding of Catholic teaching about marriage, human sexuality and the grace that the Sacrament of marriage offers. I think why you are equating marriage with sex is because sex is everywhere in our culture and because of your Catholic beliefs you believe that is the only legitimate way to experience sex with another person (which is true). However, just because marriage makes sexual intercourse “legal” so to speak, doesn’t mean that is it’s entire purpose. Sex is an important part of marriage and it is really great to have a partner that you can share such a deeply personal and physical act with in a safe and loving way. However, my marriage would survive and continue to grow even if sex were no longer part of the equation. If my husband or I could no longer engage in sex due to some physical impediment we wouldn’t be any less married or any less in love or any less committed to each other.

Marriage is sacrifice, support, having a partner in a way that no other human relationship can provide, it is trust, and joy and patience and the ultimate expression of human love aside from the love a parent feels for their child. It is hard to really encompass what marriage entails in a short internet post, but I encourage you to read some of the Theology of the Body essays and commentary, I encourage you to explore other aspects of marriage aside from its sexual aspect. In fact, I find it rather sad that you have such a poor view of marriage, that you do view it simply as a vehicle for having legitimate sexual contact with another person. That is such an immature and simplified view of the marital covenant. Now that I am Catholic I have such a deeper understanding of marriage as the vocation is taught by the Church and I am honored and overjoyed that it is my vocation.

I do see from time to time younger posters on this forum who seem to have the view that the religious life is a much loftier calling than marriage and that is not what the Church teaches. There are amazing graces and spiritual benefits of being called to the religious life, that is definitely not in dispute, but strong, healthy marriages, marriages that function as the Church teaches them to, are the cornerstone of a healthy society and support the Church enormously.

 

[turtle18]

First, every single marriage has different sexual patterns. To suggest that people in times past had less sex and more “developed” marriages and marriages now are solely based on sex is rather ridiculous, especially coming from someone who isn’t married! In fact, I find it rather sad that you have such a poor view of marriage, that you do view it simply as a vehicle for having legitimate sexual contact with another person. That is such an immature and simplified view of the marital covenant. Now that I am Catholic I have such a deeper understanding of marriage as the vocation is taught by the Church and I am honored and overjoyed that it is my vocation.

I have read Theology of the Body and all it focuses is on is sex. It doesn’t bring up any other aspect of marital life–how to make a spiritual connection (except praying before sex) or how to make an emotional connection. Charbeau, I really didn’t ask to be criticized by you for my understanding of marriage. I was asking people on these forums to help explain it to me, not to mention how “sad” you feel for me or calling me immature or ridiculous. I could call you a lot of things too based on your post but I’ll just refrain from that.

 

[anode]

Turtle,

There is no obligation whatsoever to get married. None. I personally have known a lot of happy never-married women all of their lives, and in terms of sociology, more than one study has shown that the never-married women are second only to married men in happiness. Third is married women, interestingly, and, yes, at the bottom, never-married men. This latter also goes along with my personal observations. Indeed, one can argue that there are many advantages to not being married. You are independent, no one can boss you around, you can do what you want to do and go wherever you want whenever you want. It does help to have a good job and medical benefits, which we hope will soon be available to all, one way or the other. You can even adopt. It does help to have a strong social/family network, but that is true for everyone, married or not.

 

[skallal]

Hey turtle,

What a great question! You can tell that you are a woman truly seeking to know God’s will, and I’ll be praying that it becomes more and more clear to you. It sounds like you’ve done a lot of research and the people here have tried to help, some perhaps a little more enlightened than others, but all meaning well.

Since you are so attracted to consecrated life, perhaps the best way to understand marriage is by analogy to consecration… a new thought! As you know, consecration is about giving your life totally to Jesus so as to help build up the kingdom by bringing forth new Christians, other Christs. You know that consecration is not just about some ecstasy, but about living your whole life together with Jesus, sharing with him all the ups and downs, all the trials and joys, all the successes and setbacks. You know that Jesus is a person you can talk to, “snuggle up to” (spiritually speaking), and so forth. You also know that giving your life to Jesus does not just mean mechanically receiving communion or carrying out your apostolic duties. Consecration is a communion of life and love in which some of the high points might include daily Eucharistic Communion and the experience of helping others to know and love Jesus, but all of this in the context of daily life together.

Marriage is the same thing, but instead of Jesus, you get to be with some other guy who is not God, although he may be pretty great just the same! Obviously there still ought to be those high points of ecstasy and fruitfulness, but the reality is daily life together with all that entails. You’ve probably seen some examples of it in your own home, as well as your extended family and friends’ families. Still, if you feel called to consecration, it’s probably because marriage is not enough for you. You want Christ, not someone else. (btw, the Council of Trent calls “anathema” anyone who disputes the superiority of the religious state of life, so watch out for “spirit of Vatican II” heretics or those who are simply ill-informed and teach the opposite.) Your heart is too big for one man and one family, isn’t it? Jesus alone is enough for you, and anyone else would just feel like an obstacle to the intimacy you want with him, isn’t that right? If so, stop studying and start looking at religious communities. Try’em out. See what fits. Move on to the next one till you find that peace of heart that God alone can give even in the midst of trials, sufferings, and humiliations…

May God bless you on your journey to utter happiness and fulfillment,

Brother Scott
Seminarian
Apostles of the Interior Life, Rome