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alterserver_07
Guest
Luke 10: 1-12 proves my point. I when they don’t recieve you, ( don’t invite you), leave the city. And besides, when the apostles argued, they did it in public places, not at private houses.
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stillsearching
Guest
BJ Colbert:
Yeah, dudette. If you keep going, maybe you’ll reach the billions of christians and then start working on the other billions of Islam.And that doesn’t include al the dead guys you decided for God wuld be in heaven, either. I mean did you guys even ask these dead guys if they wanted to live with you eternally?Since that time the Church has grown to 12 million members, so we must be doing something right.BJ
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Brad_Haas
Guest
Oooh, Acts 5:42 is a good addition to my New Testament: Optimist’s Version.
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LDS
Guest
Based on the hard ache that they ended up with I don’t think so. So many people died on the pioneer trek, I think that the promises couldn’t out weigh the reality.BJ is right about this.
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Jerusha
Guest
BJ, page 55 of this document disagrees with you in terms of US population.
census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/pop.pdf
2,787,000
Versus Catholic
50,873,000
Self-identification on US census.
census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/pop.pdf
2,787,000
Versus Catholic
50,873,000
Self-identification on US census.
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BJ_Colbert
Guest
I only answered your questions and was not looking for an argument. How can you argue when you never heard of pioneers and Mormons settling Utah. For your information “Dude” the dead guys are usually our own ancestors, and we did not decide they would be in heaven, God will decide that at the judgement day. They have the right to turn down the baptism, or accept it. It is only for those who did not have the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ while they were on earth. Since you don’t believe in baptism for the dead then it has no effect on you personally. We really are not trying to reach the billions of Islamic people, if they join the LDS church it is one at a time and it is their choice. You must be in high school, to say such childish things. Dude you need to study something besides Anti-Mormon drivel. Try something a bit more positive and get the chip off of your shoulder. BJ
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BJ_Colbert
Guest
Hi Jerusha, You are right we are the 5th largest religion in the US and the 12 million figure is world wide, not US. Thanks for pointing that out. BJ
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jusher7281
Guest
E.E.N.S.:
Do you have a point? I wasn’t questioning your Catholicity. I’m Catholic for the same reasons you are, as are most Catholics, probably. I was simply adding to your original statement, pointing out that Mormonism has no historical evidence to support any of its claims.Note: I am not Catholic because I believe the Mormons are wrong (or anyone else for that matter), I am Catholic because I believe in the truths of the Catholic Faith (plus history, the Bible, and early Church fathers make it very clear!)
One, holy, catholic, and apostolic!
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stillsearching
Guest
Why not? My ancestors left Ireland in poverty and came here in extreme hardship, most of them dying on the boat and then the rest suffering extreme prejudice and hardship when they got here. It certainly did not stop anybody from trying to get a farm, or gold or money though. I agree with her. The LDS pioneers were probably looking for good land cheap or similar stuff.
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Casen
Guest
Back to the thread’s original topic, LDS missionaries do indeed go door-to-door but it’s not the preferred method and in most countries missionaries do this when they don’t have any other options. The preferred and most successful method to find “investigators” is through member referrals. Members talk about the church with friends, relatives, and neighbors and invite them to meet with the missionaries. Statistically those people are also more likely to remain active in the church since they will likely have a better social support structure when they enter the church than people that are contacted “cold” through missionaries randomly knocking on doors. It also depends partly on the local culture, which may or may not be receptive to religious missionaries randomly knocking on doors. Europe and the US for example are not as receptive to this technique.
In any case the argument that the Bible forbids missionaries from spreading the “Good News” of Jesus Christ by knocking on doors is one of the weakest arguments I’ve seen here.
In any case the argument that the Bible forbids missionaries from spreading the “Good News” of Jesus Christ by knocking on doors is one of the weakest arguments I’ve seen here.
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tkdnick
Guest
Really??? I didn’t know that door-to-door wasn’t the preferred method. What you said makes complete sense, but I never even thought of that.
If it’s not the preferred method, why does it tend to be the most common method? Is it because the preferred method doesn’t produce adequate numbers?
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Casen
Guest
Tkdnick,
From my personal experience I can tell you that we knocked doors for a few reasons. First, we always wanted to keep busy so if we had an appointment cancel or had some time between two appointments we would knock doors or talk to people in a public place. Or, if we were in a new area where we didn’t know many people, or there were few members to work with we would end up knocking doors. Also, in some areas the members were less enthusiastic or helpful so we might spend more time knocking doors. But the goal was always to work through members whenever possible.
From my personal experience I can tell you that we knocked doors for a few reasons. First, we always wanted to keep busy so if we had an appointment cancel or had some time between two appointments we would knock doors or talk to people in a public place. Or, if we were in a new area where we didn’t know many people, or there were few members to work with we would end up knocking doors. Also, in some areas the members were less enthusiastic or helpful so we might spend more time knocking doors. But the goal was always to work through members whenever possible.
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Reformed_Rob
Guest
I’m not in the midst of the raging discussion, and don’t care to be, but… in response to the opening post…
I’d like to think that it’s because they take seriously the Apostle’s words,
II Corinthians 9:6
Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully.
And also, our Lord’s words,
Matthew 9:36-38
And seeing the multitudes, He felt compassion on them… Then He said to His disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest.”
I’m sure many LDS go on mission for different reasons, and with different zeal, but I’d like to think that many/most are sincere. I can think of at least one who I believe was. I mean, like, he had a hard time getting whole sentences out, and to go to a far-away place where you’re going to have to talk to people about important things pretty much daily, wow, that’s not something he likely got pressured into doing.
Anyways, thinking about the training that I understand the missionaries go through, and the relative lack of knowledge among the general public that they talk to, I think the door to door blanket coverage should be pretty effective in many areas.
This is not a “let’s be buddy buddy with the LDS” view. Just an outsider looking in on the method.
I’d like to think that it’s because they take seriously the Apostle’s words,
II Corinthians 9:6
Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully.
And also, our Lord’s words,
Matthew 9:36-38
And seeing the multitudes, He felt compassion on them… Then He said to His disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest.”
I’m sure many LDS go on mission for different reasons, and with different zeal, but I’d like to think that many/most are sincere. I can think of at least one who I believe was. I mean, like, he had a hard time getting whole sentences out, and to go to a far-away place where you’re going to have to talk to people about important things pretty much daily, wow, that’s not something he likely got pressured into doing.
Anyways, thinking about the training that I understand the missionaries go through, and the relative lack of knowledge among the general public that they talk to, I think the door to door blanket coverage should be pretty effective in many areas.
This is not a “let’s be buddy buddy with the LDS” view. Just an outsider looking in on the method.
J
Jerusha
Guest
I have had a discussion elsewhere on rude versus polite response to mishies. IMHO, a polite “I have already made a sincere committment to the religion of my choice. Thank you, but I am not interested.” is the best response.
I have no need to invite them in and launch a major debate with them. I just expect respect in response. And some, upon finding out about my background, do not have the common courtesy to grant that. I just lack trust, and by my experiences, that lack of trust is justified.
When harrassed, I have a tendency to get mad, and it isn’t pretty, as you have seen.
I have no need to invite them in and launch a major debate with them. I just expect respect in response. And some, upon finding out about my background, do not have the common courtesy to grant that. I just lack trust, and by my experiences, that lack of trust is justified.
When harrassed, I have a tendency to get mad, and it isn’t pretty, as you have seen.
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stillsearching
Guest
Jerusha- do you remember when the Apsotle said I can lay down my life and then pick it up again? It is the same for this. Sometimes, one feels like evangelizing and sometimes not. Now, I know a lot of people are going to say we should not go on feelings alone and that is true. But feelings are a gift form God and sometimes it is foolish to ignore them. Sometimes I simply say, sorry this is a Catholic household, and sometimes I discuss with the people at the door. Sometimes I give them prayer cards, but infrequently. There is no sense in giving them out if the missionary abuses them. On the other hand, I got so tired of JW’s leaving stuff on my car and doorknob, that I printed Catholic Answers tracts and my local Church bulletin and spent one Saturday morning plastering them all over the known JW’s houses and cars. I think it’s perfectly okay if you do not subscribe to the modern trend to invite mormon and JW missionarys over for dinner and become best buddies. Not everyone is called to evangelize and it does a terrible disservice to God and the enormous variety of great gifts to expect everyone to do the same thing all the time. It is tiresome to be surrounded by some of the bandwagons Catholics get on, as if we are all a bunch of robots. Like ecumenicalism. I guess there is no drawing the line anymore, but the I’m okay you’re okay stuff is getting very old. At least for me. Bottom line, the Gospel, RCIA, rosary, Mass, is freely dispensed in this country. No one is holding a gun to the heads of these people and making them blaspheme or insult the Chruch or reject Christ in His fullness. The truth is enormously available, now more than ever, and I sort of wonder, why are Catholics beating their heads against the wall over all this??? God gives man free will. I sometimes think we Catholics take it away from people by this constant evangelizing trend. We did not use to do this. The fact is God gave people the right, the absolute right, to choose to throw themselves away and the right as well, to not to.
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Jerusha
Guest
I think our best strategy is to strengthen our own church communities, have family-based religious education programs, and more outreach to people who are counted on parish census, but are rarely seen.
To borrow from AA— attraction rather than promotion. When I see Mennonites, with their traditional lifestyle, generally friendly, the women wear a sign of their commitment, I see a non-evangelical religion that will survive-- and evangelize quietly.
Aggressive evangelization alienates. And a religion that has developed in relative social isolation, believes in intensive evangelization, and has beliefs that are so markedly different from the rest of the country is going to have serious problems with PR until they “mainstream”.
I have real problems, given my perspective of LDS, with communication with them. And a lot of that has more to do with— my fear of their anger when presented with logic and evidence contrary to their beliefs. The internet gives me an opportunity to present MY beliefs. I fear doing that in real life. 'Cause I have the ability to get them all riled up, and when they get riled up, they turn savage.
To borrow from AA— attraction rather than promotion. When I see Mennonites, with their traditional lifestyle, generally friendly, the women wear a sign of their commitment, I see a non-evangelical religion that will survive-- and evangelize quietly.
Aggressive evangelization alienates. And a religion that has developed in relative social isolation, believes in intensive evangelization, and has beliefs that are so markedly different from the rest of the country is going to have serious problems with PR until they “mainstream”.
I have real problems, given my perspective of LDS, with communication with them. And a lot of that has more to do with— my fear of their anger when presented with logic and evidence contrary to their beliefs. The internet gives me an opportunity to present MY beliefs. I fear doing that in real life. 'Cause I have the ability to get them all riled up, and when they get riled up, they turn savage.
J
Jerusha
Guest
Actually, I prefer to ignore those LDS people who would rather intimidate than communicate.
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stillsearching
Guest
This is a problem I think with the current misunderstanding of ecumenicalism. For instance, I am Catholic, and I have bee raised to believe that Mormon is a far, far cry form anything I should believe. In fact, I have been throughout my life encouraged to stya away from them and I know for a fact our current priest discourages us from letting our children discuss anything about religion with Mormons. And yet, even though, I have tried to repeatedly understand that which from my perspective makes no sense, and I simply state that, the moderators on this forum have suspended me, twice, and sent me innumerable conduct warnings for simply stating something like there is no Angel Moroni. Now I’m not sure that it is rude for a Catholic to state that there is no Angel Moroni. I do not think that it is poor conduct to state that their version of history is radically skewed away from all accepted forms. And yet the moderators tell me that I am contemptuous and sarcastic. No, I am Catholic, this is a Catholic forum, and I am under no obligation to believe anything the Mormons say. In the meantime, I have been ridiculed and treated with contempt repeatedly by the Mormons on this thread, with no assistance forthcoming from the moderators. As a result, I have decided to see under what authority this forum exists and talk with them. What if my kids were to get on here and listen to this stuff and get yelled at by the moderators for not believing it? This really is intolerable.
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Jerusha
Guest
If they come here to learn about Catholicism, to get some guidance on how to mainstream their church and adapt it to reality, that is good. If they come here to try to convert us, to condemn Catholicism, that is not good.
Our role here is to not alienate them, but to communicate with them.
Our role here is to not alienate them, but to communicate with them.
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Paul_G
Guest
I believe you and sympathize with you in your fearfulness. You say your fear anger, that someone will get riled up, turn savage, and do what?
You may have had a bad experience with a Mormon, I’ve had bad experiences with a Catholic. So what, that doesn’t mean I believe that all Catholics going to, as you say, turn savage, that would be silly thinking on my part.
Yes, we have missionaries that go door to door. We believe we have the restored Gospel and believe we have an obligation to teach it to all those who will listen. I understand that it may be irritating to those that have a differing belief system, or no belief system at all. We take a lot of abuse for doing it. We do it because of our love for people.
We don’t try to convert people, as has been said, we teach and let the Holy Ghost do the converting.
With all the picky fault finding going on I’m sure if we didn’t send out missionaries, those that rile against us would say something like “Oh, you say you have the restored Gospel but you just want to keep it to your selves, you guys are really selfish.”
So we will continue to do as GOD commands us to do. We should fear HIM more than man, as the scripture says.
Paul
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