Douay–Rheims Bible

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I recently found a family bible that to my surprise is worth a lot of money. Not that I would sell it, but the translation is Douay–Rheims Bible. I think it’s publish date is 1952.

I am fascinated by it, the art work, and being a book collector just that old book smell. But it is fragile.

Anyway I digress, I came back to the church after being in reformed circles. So many of my bibles are ESV and NKJ.

I am wondering if the Douay–Rheims Bible is a good translation too study, if so I found several on eBay that would serve as a daily reader.

Or is there another older translation recommended?

There is something so tangible and reverent holding and seeing and reading these older books. The artwork is beautiful…and I know that Vatican II will be an issue, But I am pretty ignorant on that being born in '66.

I am currently using a Catholic New American Bible but it is paperback with smaller print…plus I love collecting books 🤓

Any (name removed by moderator)ut welcomed!

Thanks,
Michael
 
BlueMaxx said:
There is something so tangible and reverent holding and seeing and reading these older books. The artwork is beautiful
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I agree with this. I too have a Bible passed down from my parents. It’s a 1957 confraterinity-douay Bible. Leather bound, gold plated pages, beautiful artwork, family history section. Unfortunately the cover is starting to separate from the book and some of the pages are falling out. I’ve been reading it recently. And the feel of the leather and quality paper texture , the font, and the fact that it’s an old family Bible passed down makes it a more enjoyable and easier read than a mass produced paper back or even worse digital.
 
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The Douay-Rheims Bible is the best translation imo.

True story:

When I was in my senior year in college, a non-Catholic girl and I were looking at various Bible translations. We looked over the Our Father (Matt. 6: 9 et seq.) in the New American Bible, New Jerusalem and the Douay-Rheims Bible. And this is what we saw in the Douay-Rheims:

[9] Thus therefore shall you pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. [10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

[11] Give us this day our supersubstantial bread. [12] And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors. [13] And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen. [14]

[11] “Supersubstantial bread”: In St. Luke the same word is rendered daily bread. It is understood of the bread of life, which we receive in the Blessed Sacrament.

[13] “Lead us not into temptation”: That is, suffer us not to be overcome by temptation.

“Supersubstantial bread”? We never heard of such a thing! Then we read the footnote on v. 11. Result: My non-Catholic friend was so impressed that she became Catholic. She went through RCIA, made her Profession of Faith, received Confirmation and First Holy Communion.
 
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BlueMaxx said:
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The Douay-Rheims Challoner is based upon the Jerome Vulgate compared with Hebrew and Greek sources for accuracy, whereas the New American Bible is based upon the Septuagint, Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia with Dead Sea Scrolls, Dead Sea Scrolls, and some Vulgate influence, and the Nestle-Aland (Novum Testamentum Graece) 25th edition. The RSV is similar to the NABRE except the 17th edition of Nestle-Aland (Novum Testamentum Graece - 1941) was used. NRSV uses the Nestle-Aland (Novum Testamentum Graece - 1993) 27th edition.

RSV: Middle School reading level
NRSV: High School reading level (note added Nov 18)
NABRE: High School reading level
Douay Rheims Challoner: Grade 12 reading level
 
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BlueMaxx said:
I am wondering if the Douay–Rheims Bible is a good translation too study
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I love the Douay Rheims, but in terms of study I don’t think it’s the best English version out there. Assuming you’re not classically trained or haven’t received some type of ecclesiastical degree the RSV is (in my opinion) the best for lay study of the scriptures. It’s my own go to for reading for comprehension.

The Douay Rheims is written in Early Modern English. It’s very poetic and as a literary work extremely beautiful. It’s rightfully called the “Catholic King James Version.” Like the King James Version 21st century English speakers have trouble reading the DR for comprehension. I myself prefer to use the DR as a supplement for understanding the liturgies of the Church, especially those of the Extraordinary Form, since the Latin of such are drawn from the Vulgate, which was the source material for the DR. I have an old DR like you and it essentially stays sitting on my home altar for devotional purposes (not those of study). If you’re looking for a slightly older English version of the Scriptures that’s easy to understand, is faithful to the Vulgate while taking into consideration other manuscripts consider the Knox Version.
I am currently using a Catholic New American Bible
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My opinion is likely to be met with much scorn, but I firmly believe that the main reason one might possibly own the New American Bible is to follow along with the lectionary at Mass in the Ordinary Form. As a study device it is sorely lacking and as a devotional tool it’s almost completely divorced from tradition. It’s frankly my least favorite version of the Bible (and I include that among certain Protestant versions too!)
 
Vatican II is absolutely not an issue. The translation of the Bible that you choose to read is entirely up to you. Vatican II did not “do away” with the Douay Bible. It is valuable for its elegant, literary English, as well as for its adherence to the Latin Vulgate. For a more modern translation, I prefer the New English Bible. As far as I am concerned, the New American Bible does not even exist. There are numerous problems with the NAB.
 
I’ve done some study on the Douay-Rheims. Although it is believed to be a faithful English translation from Jerome’s Vulgate, it is actually based on a later translation of the Vulgate that included Baruch & the epistle of Jeremiah (which were absent from Jerome’s original 405 translation). Plus, it omits half of a chapter from Jeremiah (which I believe was Chapter 31 or 33). It also does not include the additions to Ezra-Nehemiah (ie: 1 Esdras) which were in the fourth century church councils of Hippo & Carthage. And in the book of Esther, the “additions” to Esther in the Douay-Rheims follows the New Catholic Version pretty well, the New American Bible (a Catholic translation, not the Protestant NASB) does this kind of weird thing where it inserts the “additions” to Esther, by placing Chapter “letters” (ie: Ch. A,B,C, etc) in-between the Chapter “numbers” (ie: Ch. 1,2,3, etc).

@HomeschoolDad Consequently, both the NCV & the NAB were approved by the Confraternity of Catholic Bishops. So, both are supposed to be valid & reliable Catholic translations
 
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The Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSV CE) is said to be the best modern translation in English; my favourite is the Douay-Rheims. The original RSV CE has the ‘thees and thous’ but might be easier to understand, especially for in-depth study.

I am reading through the entire bible at the moment, using the New Living Translation Catholic edition. Its precision and clarity is outstanding, I’d give it a try.

Otherwise, the New Jerusalem or New American Bibles are good!

ΙϹ ΧϹ ΝΙΚΑ
 
AlbertDerGrosse said:
21st century English speakers have trouble reading the DR for comprehension
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Yes, I agree. The most common parts (e.g. the Lord’s Prayer) are readily intelligible, but many lesser known OT passages are translated so particular to the 16th century as to make it incomprehensible to a modern reader.

I think it helps to use more than one translation: something perhaps more literary (e.g. the Douay Rheims) for devotional use, and a more modern translation for private/group study where comprehension is important. It’s also worthwhile noting that an up-to-date modern translation allows one to benefit from developments in biblical and theological scholarship (e.g. the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in the 20th century).

I personally use some 4 translations: the KJV and Coverdale Psalter (previously an Anglican), as well as the NRSV-CE and the ESV (for when I talk with my Reformed friends).
 
I’m always looking for different translations so this thread has been helpful. I haven’t read the New English Bible or the New Living Translation or the Knox, all mentioned here. The Bibles I have are the NABRE, RSV2CE, Jerusalem Bible and Confraternity-Douay. My go to is the RSV2CE, though I only have the NT. Waiting for the Ignatius Study Bible being released late next year. I’m most familiar with the NABRE. With all the talk about the footnotes I’m in the middle on them. There is some good historical background and technical/linguistic explanations. On the other hand some of the commentary is maddening to read if looking for a Catholic perspective. TheJerusalem Bible takes some time getting used to and I’ve never read The New Jerusalem Bible.

Two questions. How does the New Jerusalem Bible compare to the Jerusalem Bible? And how similar are the Confraternity and the NAB or NABRE? I just started reading the Confraternity. Exodus seems to be more similar to the NAB than is Genesis.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
Vatican II is absolutely not an issue. The translation of the Bible that you choose to read is entirely up to you. Vatican II did not “do away” with the Douay Bible. It is valuable for its elegant, literary English, as well as for its adherence to the Latin Vulgate. For a more modern translation, I prefer the New English Bible. As far as I am concerned, the New American Bible does not even exist. There are numerous problems with the NAB.
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We use the 1970 NAB in our Byzantine lectionary. It may have some adaptations from the original Greek however.
 
RaisedCatholic said:
@HomeschoolDad Consequently, both the NCV & the NAB were approved by the Confraternity of Catholic Bishops. So, both are supposed to be valid & reliable Catholic translations
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It’s just personal preference. I find the NAB to be very flat and pedestrian.
catholic03 said:
The Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSV CE) is said to be the best modern translation in English; my favourite is the Douay-Rheims. The original RSV CE has the ‘thees and thous’ but might be easier to understand, especially for in-depth study.
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The RSV-CE is very good indeed. I prefer the DRV for majestic language and exactitude (i.e., slavish fidelity to Latin Vulgate), but for everyday reading or classroom use, it’s a little laborious, I will grant.
 
In addition to the Douay–Rheims, I purchased a Didache Bible which is a Revised Standard Version, Second Catholic Edition. I also have an older Confraternity edition.

The Didache may be the clear winner for me. With finely written apologetics incorporated into the book, it has a heavy influence on references to the catechism of the Catholic church. Nearly every verse in the NT has a CCC reference. This is useful in understanding the catechism. So this is a bonus in addition to the translation.
 
Wow, thanks for such wonderful and explanatory replies.
I confess to being an English Literature major after having been a Paramedic…and actually am more versed in the Olde English if you will…modern writing is the antithesis of what I enjoy.
Growing up I read the KJV…but I also had a very high aptitude for reading at a very young age.
In my head when I read the D-R it just seems to flow better, plus after reading some of these posts it also satisfies my desire for a more accurate translation.

The omission of some parts or all of books is troublesome, I will have to delve further into that. Winter months are coming so should be a good time by the fireplace for such reading.

I think I will try and find a nice older version on eBay, the ones from the 50’s seem to still hold to the beautiful artwork and are more expository in describing Catholic traditions.

When I say “study” bible I mean really a daily reader, or usually at night when I do my evening readings.
If I am doing an actual study I have supplemental commentaries.

This NAB I bought was off the cuff after having came back from the reformed circles (I used a MacArthur and Sproul study bible for years for anyone who knows who they are) and have not been too fond of it.

Thanks again for such wonderful responses.

I will take a picture of the one I found here at moms. I asked her about it (she is almost 92) and said she bought it years ago. I never knew…there is a reason. but that’s for another time.

The interesting thing is last night I was doing a bit of reading in it and came across a piece of paper mom had written on many many years ago with some specific verses. Such an odd and nostalgic feeling seeing that.

Another interesting factoid is in the first pages it gives you information on the indulgences for reading a certain amount of time each day (15 minutes minimum), for kissing the Holy Book and some other prayers and then gives you how many years of indulgences it grants you.

You sure don’t hear that talk amongst the younger generations nowa’day’s.

M
 
I have a DR Bible and use it all the time. It is my favorite. I use it for reading and for Bible studies.
If I run across a sentence or word I don’t know, with today’s technology it is easy to look up.
Also, you can just hear the Catholic faith all through the DR version. It is very awesome.
 
MagdalenaRita said:
I have a DR Bible and use it all the time. It is my favorite. I use it for reading and for Bible studies.
If I run across a sentence or word I don’t know, with today’s technology it is easy to look up.
Also, you can just hear the Catholic faith all through the DR version. It is very awesome.
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Thank you for putting into words in such a succinct manner better than I …

I also notice a lot of these older bibles say “Catholic Action Edition”

Cannot seem to track down just what this means or is?

Anyone have any information on that?
 
BlueMaxx said:
I also notice a lot of these older bibles say “ Catholic Action Edition ”

Cannot seem to track down just what this means or is?

Anyone have any information on that?
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“Catholic Action” is an old-fashioned term for lay apostolic activity under the direction of the hierarchy of the Church. In our time, there is such a thing as lay apostolate — you and I are participating in one right at the very moment — but much of this has arisen spontaneously, rather than being called for by the bishops and the Holy See. Laypeople are far more educated, far more articulate, than they were in times past, and the resources we have at our fingertips, on demand 24/7, without so much as having to leave or homes or pay for it, are so abundant that the saints of the Church would have swooned with joy if they’d had all of this available. It has to be the work of the Holy Spirit that the vast majority of this activity is solidly orthodox and conducive to greater holiness. We are living in wonderful times for the propagation of the faith. Perhaps this is the “new springtime” spoken of by John Paul II.

And not to be a “Denny Downer”, but keep in mind that all of this could be taken from us in an instant. The other day, evidently they were working on the power lines or something, and all of our electricity went off. Imagine if it happened — and stayed that way. EMP, solar flares, some cosmic disturbance, whatever. We need to prize, and to use, what we have available, while we have it available. Deo volente, it will always be this way — but what if things ever change?
 
Great info…just was wanting to make sure it was solid approved doctrine.
Funny how much one can learn by looking at all the various bibles on eBay 🤓
Seems somewhere in the maybe 60’s or 70’s the interprtations seem to go to NAB…curious.
 
My mother had a Douay-Rheims Bible, and now I have it. The spellings and overall language seem somewhat archaic, and it’s hard to read. For instance, in my copy, the word “diverse” is spelled “divers”, and there are many other examples, throughout. It’s definitely NOT the modern way we communicate in English. That’s fine, as long as one can still understand what’s being said in it. It’s a beautiful Bible.
 
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