Double trouble!

[Eleve]

Just like it is logically impossible to modify the past (grandfather paradox), it is impossible to report about the future - because the future does not exist.

So what’s the problem? We already knew that omnipotence doesn’t extend to logical impossibilities.

 

[PetrusRomanus]

You still don’t get it. I only make the decision AFTER I heard the report. The point is that there is no such thing as a “fixed future”. The future is contingent upon our decisions. The “time traveler” can only report one possible future.

This is so easy for God to do. He can list all the possible outcomes of the colors of t-shirts you will wear for example. He can see all the choices and alternatives you would have made for each one and the choices for the ones you still haven’t made. So if He said “You will choose black” and you chose red, He saw that outcome as well. You are correct in that there is no fixed future, for the choices we make dictate where we are headed.

 

[Love4All]

So what’s the problem? We already knew that omnipotence doesn’t extend to logical impossibilities.

The problem is that it is not in fact the case that God does not know the future. He does, in fact, know it, infallibly. Therefore it is not a logical impossibility for God to accurately predict the future.

Tyrion is essentially Saint Peter insisting that he would never deny Christ even once, but would die with Him first. How is this difficult to understand?

 

[Bahman]

A simple question: How could you define before and after for an intity (God) that is in state of timeless.

 

[DanAl]

Let’s see two alleged attributes of God: omnipotence and omniscience. The current question is: “Can God prove his omniscience?”. In other words, is it within God’s “omnipotence” to really prove that he knows what free agents will do sometime in the future? (It is future only for us…) Of course God may simply say that he knows what I will do at any time in the future. But I am a “nasty” skeptic, and will ask if he can prove what he says?

As such I offer the following experiment. I will select a few dice, and will toss them sometime in the future. Can God predict and reveal the result? How many dice will I select? With which hand am I going to do the toss? When will I do the toss? Of course, as soon as I hear the prediction, I will do something else - as long as God does not “tinker” with my free will. If God says that I will select 3 dice, then I will select 1, or 2, or 4, etc… anything but 3. If he says that I will make the toss with my right hand… then I will do it with my left hand. If he says that I will make the toss within the next 5 minutes… then I will wait 6 minutes. Since I will act only when I heard the prediction, I am in the driver’s seat.

Now, of course this is all contingent upon God “playing” the game. If he refuses to participate, then he admits that he cannot “prove” his so-called and assumed “omniscience”. And that refutes God’s omnipotence. He is unable to prove such a simple assertion. Moreover, even if one accepts God’s word without proof, then it is obvious that God’s omniscience is contingent upon NOT revealing his knowledge. (Which makes God contingent.)

Either God’s omnipotence or omniscience or both are problematic. Can anyone refute this logic?

Which part of infallible knowledge don’t you understand?

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Let’s see two alleged attributes of God: omnipotence and omniscience. The current question is: “Can God prove his omniscience?”. In other words, is it within God’s “omnipotence” to really prove that he knows what free agents will do sometime in the future? (It is future only for us…) Of course God may simply say that he knows what I will do at any time in the future. But I am a “nasty” skeptic, and will ask if he can prove what he says?

As such I offer the following experiment. I will select a few dice, and will toss them sometime in the future. Can God predict and reveal the result? How many dice will I select? With which hand am I going to do the toss? When will I do the toss? Of course, as soon as I hear the prediction, I will do something else - as long as God does not “tinker” with my free will. If God says that I will select 3 dice, then I will select 1, or 2, or 4, etc… anything but 3. If he says that I will make the toss with my right hand… then I will do it with my left hand. If he says that I will make the toss within the next 5 minutes… then I will wait 6 minutes. Since I will act only when I heard the prediction, I am in the driver’s seat.

Now, of course this is all contingent upon God “playing” the game. If he refuses to participate, then he admits that he cannot “prove” his so-called and assumed “omniscience”. And that refutes God’s omnipotence. He is unable to prove such a simple assertion. Moreover, even if one accepts God’s word without proof, then it is obvious that God’s omniscience is contingent upon NOT revealing his knowledge. (Which makes God contingent.)

Either God’s omnipotence or omniscience or both are problematic. Can anyone refute this logic?

You guys are so predictable, you must have all attended the same lecture. The thing is, God doesn’t have to prove anything to you or anyone else. We are sorry you feel the way you do, but it looks like you are pretty committed. And for those reading these " logical " challanges just remember that Satan will use any instrument, even the devices of clever Sophists, to snatch your soul.

Linus2nd

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Which part of infallible knowledge don’t you understand?

I pointed this out in the other thread, but with Tyrion not being part of the forums any further I would suggest not expecting to get a response to this question.