Doubting Catholicism

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buffalo said:
One has to become humble.
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I thank you. I know the need to be humble, even though I have some problems with “pride.” I do not want to be proud, but I just am sometimes. I wish that I weren’t so proud, but again I think it has to do with my environment.
 
Image_of_God said:
I thank you. I know the need to be humble, even though I have some problems with “pride.” I do not want to be proud, but I just am sometimes. I wish that I weren’t so proud, but again I think it has to do with my environment.
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I have been there.
 
buffalo said:
Man can find certain truths by reason alone. Many religions share these foundational truths.

Catholicism has one more thing though. It is Divine Revelation.

If you search for the truth constantly what will happen? You will understand more, right? As you understand more truth you get closer to the absolute truth. Who is the absolute truth? God.

Catholicism is the fullness of truth.
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But it is amazing to me how many people leave the Church every year, because of a glimpse of doubt. I don’t want to be like them. They miss the truth that was right before their eyes, because they saw something that they thought it was the full truth. If I have doubt, I know that God is with me, but sometimes I am unsure of where he wants me to be.
 
I will definitely be praying for you. I suggest that you continually ask God for guidance and continue to follow Him in the best way you know how. Pray that He will guide you into the fullness of the truth. I am in a similar situation myself, though I am not Catholic or Orthodox, but rather more of an outsider. Still, I would very much like to be Catholic; that draw is definitely there. It’s just that the Orthodox arguments often seem compelling, as I’m sure you understand. I will keep you in my prayers! Please keep me in yours! 🙂

God bless!
 
The_Iambic_Pen said:
I will definitely be praying for you. I suggest that you continually ask God for guidance and continue to follow Him in the best way you know how. Pray that He will guide you into the fullness of the truth. I am in a similar situation myself, though I am not Catholic or Orthodox, but rather more of an outsider. Still, I would very much like to be Catholic; that draw is definitely there. It’s just that the Orthodox arguments often seem compelling, as I’m sure you understand. I will keep you in my prayers! Please keep me in yours! 🙂

God bless!
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I do understand, but the Eastern Orthodox argument for me is not as compelling as the Roman Catholic vs. Oriental Orthodox. The reason has to do much with the Councils. The Oriental Orthodox say that the 4th Council was the last Ecumenical Council and the Eastern Orthodox say that the 7th Council was the las Ecumenical Council. But I thought about it and asked my self: What makes the Eastern Orthodox more right than the Oriental Orthodox? It doesn’t seem to make sense. If the Eastern Orthodox Church can decide to say that the last council was the 7th, then what makes it wrong for the Oriental Orthodox wrong in saying it ended earlier?
To me, the Oriental argument seems more attractive than the Eastern. However, I am a little doubtful when it comes to Catholicism, too. The infallibility of the Pope is what makes me doubt. It is not so much the Papal Primacy [maybe a little] as the Infallibility. I argue that the Catholic idea seems more right, yet I doubt some of them.

But I will pray for you as well.
 
Thank you for your prayers! I agree that the Oriental Orthodox position seems to make more sense than the Eastern Orthodox position. However, neither one of them have a specific center of truth which people can look to in order to know who is right. The Catholics believe that they have this. As this may very well be true, I would be cautious about leaving the Catholic Church for any other body. Investigate, by all means, but I suggest that you do not do anything rash. This applies to me as well. I admit that I have been sidetracked lately by all the original sin/limbo talk, but there is still that insistent pull from the Catholic Church that draws me in spite of all the difficulties.

God bless!
 
The_Iambic_Pen said:
Thank you for your prayers! I agree that the Oriental Orthodox position seems to make more sense than the Eastern Orthodox position. However, neither one of them have a specific center of truth which people can look to in order to know who is right. The Catholics believe that they have this. As this may very well be true, I would be cautious about leaving the Catholic Church for any other body. Investigate, by all means, but I suggest that you do not do anything rash. This applies to me as well. I admit that I have been sidetracked lately by all the original sin/limbo talk, but there is still that insistent pull from the Catholic Church that draws me in spite of all the difficulties.

God bless!
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I thank you because your post is so reassuring, as are the others. I should not be to rash to leave, and I think you’re post might have reassured me more than I thought. I just believe that a divided Christianity makes it hard for Christians in all denominations to find the true Church, but I know there is only one. I pray that you and I will find that Church, as I still believe regardless of the doubts that I have been attacked with, that the Catholic Church is the one. I just have some thoughts that the Orientals might have been right. Yet, I will be slow and cautious and if I discover the truth is in Catholic Church then I will certainly be overjoyed. I will take your advice and not move hastily because for all I know the Catholic Church could be what it claims to be.
 
Image of God,

You cannot inadvertently commit a mortal sin. Mortal sin takes full advertence and perfect consent. Trust in God, not in your own ability to pick the correct theology among many. God will guide you to the truth and His will for you. Your response is to listen to the Lord, prayerfully inform your conscience, and then follow your conscience. The conscience is called the “aboriginal vicar of Christ” by the Catholic Church. If you listen to and faithfully obey what God is telling you in your conscience, then surely goodness and mercy will follow you all the days of your life, and you will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

With regard to papal primacy and infallibility, have you read Jesus, Peter & the Keys: A Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy by Scott Butler, Norman Dahlgren, and David Hess? If not, I recommend it.

David Currie also describes in his book, Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic, how the evidence of history supports Catholic teaching with regard to papal infallibility.

For a good discussion of the historical evidence, I recommend the following book by a Russian Orthodox scholar…

Russia and the universal church
byVladimir Sergeyevich Solovyov

I also recommend the following article from *This Rock, *which gives a good summary of Vladimir Solovyov’s understanding of the papacy…

An Eastern Voice Crying in the Wilderness
By Ray Ryland
 
I thank you all for your graciousness even in the weakness of my doubt. You guys are awesome!
You have really help me through my doubtful moments about the Catholic Church:)
I have read some of the links and they were truly inspiring. Thank you.
May God bless you all!
 
Image_of_God said:
I thank you all for your graciousness even in the weakness of my doubt. You guys are awesome!
You have really help me through my doubtful moments about the Catholic Church:)
I have read some of the links and they were truly inspiring. Thank you.
May God bless you all!
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I would also second Steven Ray’s book, Upon This Rock (in addition to Dave’s suggestions). It provides evidence from Eastern Scholars and fathers in support of the papacy, some of which is the most compelling of the entire book.
 
Lazerlike42 said:
I would also second Steven Ray’s book, Upon This Rock (in addition to Dave’s suggestions). It provides evidence from Eastern Scholars and fathers in support of the papacy, some of which is the most compelling of the entire book.
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Thank you.
 
I cannot see if you are a catholic or not by these words, or are you considering the Cathlic church?
Some questions if you are thinking of the church.
Do you know your Bible at all, or how much?
Do you know the places in the Bible that relate to the Mass?
You would have to be able to say “yes” to those questions to answer the next.
Can you honestly say that you have given your self to Jesus enough tolet go of your thoughts at mass?
Can you see Jesus in all of the Mass
Image_of_God said:
I thank you, but I need to get a firm position of Roman Catholicism before I jet to Orthodoxy however doubtful I may be. I consider the Church’s teaching on leaving the Church. This would be schism if I went to Orthodoxy.
Have you joined the church yet to have these words take a place in your heart?

If I am not sure if the Catholic Church is wrong, then it would be a hurt to God. I do strive for God, but I think I need to be in the right faith. Of course, I still believe the Church to be true, in so far as it does not include the Papacy.
You will never know Jesus truely when you put thoughts in the way of the presence of Jesus in the Mass.
You HAVE to let go of negative thoughts if you want to be in a relationship with Jesus, this is the first point if wisdome in a relationship. Are you at the point where you know that you have a relationship with Jesus that is more important than any falibiity of the church.

But I want to believe the Papacy to be true, yet I know something cannot be true because I want it to be true. I love the Catholic Church, yet I cannot let my love get in the way of love of God right?
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Gain that relationship with Jesus in such a way that when you go to mass from the time you enter the building your mind is on Jesus. Nothing else matters.
Then at EVERY word from the mouth of the priest/readers, listen to the place in the BIBLE put ALL your energy into doing that and the rest is up to you . When you receive Jesus at communion your heart and the spirit of God in you should leave you in tears.
When you have gained that place then you will yearn for more of Jesus. When you see the monstrance lifted, you (the spirit of God within you) will want to cry out “don’t put the monstrance away, just leave Jesus here a little longer”.

I would like to tell you of a time when I was so very very sick but I knew that I had to go to mass during the week. I hung over the rail could hardly move hung my head in pain but knew that i had to be there. It was hard to think o Jesus but in every word from the priest / reader I heard Him there. When it came to communion I got up went into the isle walked a few stepps with my head down, when all of a sudeen these words came through me. “This is the reason why I came”! I have never had that before but the spirit of God was in command not me. I can only say that God aloud that to happen. I must have let go of everything at that time.
Only Jesus.
No paple thought , no thought of being ill, no thought of others being there, Only Jesus.
Only Jesus.
 
littleone said:
I cannot see if you are a catholic or not by these words, or are you considering the Cathlic church?
Some questions if you are thinking of the church.
Do you know your Bible at all, or how much?
Do you know the places in the Bible that relate to the Mass?
You would have to be able to say “yes” to those questions to answer the next.
Can you honestly say that you have given your self to Jesus enough tolet go of your thoughts at mass?
Can you see Jesus in all of the Mass

Gain that relationship with Jesus in such a way that when you go to mass from the time you enter the building your mind is on Jesus. Nothing else matters.
Then at EVERY word from the mouth of the priest/readers, listen to the place in the BIBLE put ALL your energy into doing that and the rest is up to you . When you receive Jesus at communion your heart and the spirit of God in you should leave you in tears.
When you have gained that place then you will yearn for more of Jesus. When you see the monstrance lifted, you (the spirit of God within you) will want to cry out “don’t put the monstrance away, just leave Jesus here a little longer”.

I would like to tell you of a time when I was so very very sick but I knew that I had to go to mass during the week. I hung over the rail could hardly move hung my head in pain but knew that i had to be there. It was hard to think o Jesus but in every word from the priest / reader I heard Him there. When it came to communion I got up went into the isle walked a few stepps with my head down, when all of a sudeen these words came through me. “This is the reason why I came”! I have never had that before but the spirit of God was in command not me. I can only say that God aloud that to happen. I must have let go of everything at that time.
Only Jesus.
No paple thought , no thought of being ill, no thought of others being there, Only Jesus.
Only Jesus.
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Wow. That is true devotion! I only wish I had love of God like that. Of course, it’s a gift from him. Well, I am Catholic. But, I guess I need to search deeper in to the Catholic Faith. That is so far that I cannot leave.
 
Image_of_God said:
I thank you all for your graciousness even in the weakness of my doubt. You guys are awesome!
You have really help me through my doubtful moments about the Catholic Church:)
I have read some of the links and they were truly inspiring. Thank you.
May God bless you all!
Click to expand...
Something I garned from St Faustina’s diary. The closer one gets to God the more the devil tries to work you over. It is a constant fight. Those that are far from God he doesn’t have to spend so much time attacking.
 
buffalo said:
Something I garned from St Faustina’s diary. The closer one gets to God the more the devil tries to work you over. It is a constant fight. Those that are far from God he doesn’t have to spend so much time attacking.
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You’re probably right. It seems to make sense.
 
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