Doubting the Church

[MVXC]

Hi everyone,

It’s been an odd few months for me. Up until recently, i was suffering from a lot of apathy, which was a horrible enough plague in itself, but now I’m suffering from doubt, not in Christ, but in the Catholic church.

I’m not sure if I can p(name removed by moderator)oint any specific issue which has caused me to drift from Catholicism recently. I’ll try to go into how I got out of my spirit of apathy, because that’s kind of where I think it began.

I wasn’t really feeling God for a very long time, and my prayer life had been suffering, dwindling to nonexistence since June. I still attended Mass every Sunday, but that wasn’t really the revival it used to be. I just wasn’t really feeling anything.

Then one day I was in a used bookstore and saw the “Left Behind” series. I’d heard about it, and was curious, so I picked it up. I was drawn in by the idea of the Rapture, and even more so by the main characters, whose conversions to Christ made so much sense and just seemed so spiritually pure I suppose.

It wasn’t until I read the first few chapters of “Tribulation Force” (the second novel in the trilogy) that I realized there was a blatant attack on Catholicism in the books. To be brief, it basically said that the only Catholics who were taken to heaven by God were those who opposed orthodoxy and leaned toward less traditional ways of worship and following God.

I stopped reading it right then, but it made me think.

These novels had gotten me praying again. I thought a bad tree couldn’t bear good fruit? This was where my doubt sort of began.

Additionally, after starting to read these books, I discovered a Christian radio station with a variety of (usually nondenominational) sermons and quiet worship music which I had become quite attached to during the rides to school and such. After reading the anti-Catholic bit in Left Behind, I was left a bit more cautious of any non-Catholic media. Since then I’ve stopped listening to this radio station too.

Over my time in innocently reading Left Behind and listening to Protestant sermons… well, I think I’ve started to become more attracted to them. I mean, I still believe in Purgatory, and the intercession of the saints and in essence all of the fundamental Catholic doctrines, but the Protestant style of worship, prayer, preaching, and the whole oft-repeated “personal relationship with God” thing is just so attractive to me. For lack of a better way of putting it, I think I’m thinking along the lines of C.S. Lewis.

I’m almost 18. I sense that soon enough I’ll be making some big decisions about my faith. How can I get these Protestant ideas out of my head? I’ve read all the CA articles I can get my hands on, but I still find myself being able to look at issues from both sides and seeing them drawn inconclusive. It’s not really the debates that are bothering me, it’s the emotions and feelings of closeness to God which I really desire.

 

[Hellisreal]

Are you saying the Catholic Church, is in some way lacking emotions?

 

[Dirk_Skene]

I have gone through a period such as that Please keep in mind the “Rapture” books are not Biblicy accurate. The sequence is not as the Bible lays it out. However they DID get you praying again This is a good thing :yup:

If I had any advise to give it would be to read as much as you can about early Church history and the early Church Fathers. It was what got me over my rough spot.

 

[historyb]

Hi everyone,

It’s been an odd few months for me. Up until recently, i was suffering from a lot of apathy, which was a horrible enough plague in itself, but now I’m suffering from doubt, not in Christ, but in the Catholic church.

I’m not sure if I can p(name removed by moderator)oint any specific issue which has caused me to drift from Catholicism recently. I’ll try to go into how I got out of my spirit of apathy, because that’s kind of where I think it began.

I wasn’t really feeling God for a very long time, and my prayer life had been suffering, dwindling to nonexistence since June. I still attended Mass every Sunday, but that wasn’t really the revival it used to be. I just wasn’t really feeling anything.

Then one day I was in a used bookstore and saw the “Left Behind” series. I’d heard about it, and was curious, so I picked it up. I was drawn in by the idea of the Rapture, and even more so by the main characters, whose conversions to Christ made so much sense and just seemed so spiritually pure I suppose.

It wasn’t until I read the first few chapters of “Tribulation Force” (the second novel in the trilogy) that I realized there was a blatant attack on Catholicism in the books. To be brief, it basically said that the only Catholics who were taken to heaven by God were those who opposed orthodoxy and leaned toward less traditional ways of worship and following God.

I stopped reading it right then, but it made me think.

These novels had gotten me praying again. I thought a bad tree couldn’t bear good fruit? This was where my doubt sort of began.

Additionally, after starting to read these books, I discovered a Christian radio station with a variety of (usually nondenominational) sermons and quiet worship music which I had become quite attached to during the rides to school and such. After reading the anti-Catholic bit in Left Behind, I was left a bit more cautious of any non-Catholic media. Since then I’ve stopped listening to this radio station too.

Over my time in innocently reading Left Behind and listening to Protestant sermons… well, I think I’ve started to become more attracted to them. I mean, I still believe in Purgatory, and the intercession of the saints and in essence all of the fundamental Catholic doctrines, but the Protestant style of worship, prayer, preaching, and the whole oft-repeated “personal relationship with God” thing is just so attractive to me. For lack of a better way of putting it, I think I’m thinking along the lines of C.S. Lewis.

I’m almost 18. I sense that soon enough I’ll be making some big decisions about my faith. How can I get these Protestant ideas out of my head? I’ve read all the CA articles I can get my hands on, but I still find myself being able to look at issues from both sides and seeing them drawn inconclusive. It’s not really the debates that are bothering me, it’s the emotions and feelings of closeness to God which I really desire.

I wish had some advice to help, but all is I can say in our journey we can wander around. It seems I am always doubting the Church http://www.iheartpaws.com/forums/images/smilies/2141.gif

 

[LISA_Annette]

Hi everyone,

It’s been an odd few months for me. Up until recently, i was suffering from a lot of apathy, which was a horrible enough plague in itself, but now I’m suffering from doubt, not in Christ, but in the Catholic church.

I’m not sure if I can p(name removed by moderator)oint any specific issue which has caused me to drift from Catholicism recently. I’ll try to go into how I got out of my spirit of apathy, because that’s kind of where I think it began.

I wasn’t really feeling God for a very long time, and my prayer life had been suffering, dwindling to nonexistence since June. I still attended Mass every Sunday, but that wasn’t really the revival it used to be. I just wasn’t really feeling anything.

Then one day I was in a used bookstore and saw the “Left Behind” series. I’d heard about it, and was curious, so I picked it up. I was drawn in by the idea of the Rapture, and even more so by the main characters, whose conversions to Christ made so much sense and just seemed so spiritually pure I suppose.

It wasn’t until I read the first few chapters of “Tribulation Force” (the second novel in the trilogy) that I realized there was a blatant attack on Catholicism in the books. To be brief, it basically said that the only Catholics who were taken to heaven by God were those who opposed orthodoxy and leaned toward less traditional ways of worship and following God.

I stopped reading it right then, but it made me think.

These novels had gotten me praying again. I thought a bad tree couldn’t bear good fruit? This was where my doubt sort of began.

Additionally, after starting to read these books, I discovered a Christian radio station with a variety of (usually nondenominational) sermons and quiet worship music which I had become quite attached to during the rides to school and such. After reading the anti-Catholic bit in Left Behind, I was left a bit more cautious of any non-Catholic media. Since then I’ve stopped listening to this radio station too.

Over my time in innocently reading Left Behind and listening to Protestant sermons… well, I think I’ve started to become more attracted to them. I mean, I still believe in Purgatory, and the intercession of the saints and in essence all of the fundamental Catholic doctrines, but the Protestant style of worship, prayer, preaching, and the whole oft-repeated “personal relationship with God” thing is just so attractive to me. For lack of a better way of putting it, I think I’m thinking along the lines of C.S. Lewis.

I’m almost 18. I sense that soon enough I’ll be making some big decisions about my faith. How can I get these Protestant ideas out of my head? I’ve read all the CA articles I can get my hands on, but I still find myself being able to look at issues from both sides and seeing them drawn inconclusive. It’s not really the debates that are bothering me, it’s the emotions and feelings of closeness to God which I really desire.

You say you believe in the doctrines of the Catholic Church—well then you ARE Catholic at heart. Just because you are attracted to a style of prayer and peaching, doesn’t mean you must leave the Catholic Church. Since you believe as a Catholic, your heart will always be conflict if you leave. I suggest you talk to your parish priest as soon as possible. There are also prayer groups within the Catholic church that may attract you—some that are Charismatic. Go on a retreat, such as the Cursillo Movement. Ask your parish preist about these styles of prayer.

The non-Catholic literature is something to stay away from—we have plenty of literature within the Catholic Faith. Walk into a Catholic Book Store, and they will be happy to help you. Visit ewtn.com. They have a religious catalogue. In short, if a non-Catholic literature has to put down Catholicism in order to promote its beliefs—well then, they don’t have much strength in its foundation.

you want closeness with God??? REACH out right now—I can pray with you—In Jesus Christ, I pray that this young person find a rich meaningful relationship with God the Father, God the Son, And God the Holy Spirit. “Seek and you shall find”—it might not be dramatic, or it might be—just be open to His Will, and how he wants to work with you. To get rid of apathy, you** have to **take those first painful steps against inertia, and then you will gain momentum. Have you physically exercised?? The first time is a real strain, huh? But in time you gain endurance and strength and stamina. So make the first effort. Call your parish priest. Read Catholic literature. learn about the Catholic Church from THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Trust in God.

I will be praying nightly for you.

 

[LISA_Annette]

You say you believe in the doctrines of the Catholic Church—well then you ARE Catholic at heart. Just because you are attracted to a style of prayer and peaching, doesn’t mean you must leave the Catholic Church. Since you believe as a Catholic, your heart will always be conflict if you leave. I suggest you talk to your parish priest as soon as possible. There are also prayer groups within the Catholic church that may attract you—some that are Charismatic. Go on a retreat, such as the Cursillo Movement. Ask your parish preist about these styles of prayer.

The non-Catholic literature is something to stay away from—we have plenty of literature within the Catholic Faith. Walk into a Catholic Book Store, and they will be happy to help you. Visit ewtn.com. They have a religious catalogue. In short, if a non-Catholic literature has to put down Catholicism in order to promote its beliefs—well then, they don’t have much strength in its foundation.

you want closeness with God??? REACH out right now—I can pray with you—In Jesus Christ, I pray that this young person find a rich meaningful relationship with God the Father, God the Son, And God the Holy Spirit. “Seek and you shall find”—it might not be dramatic, or it might be—just be open to His Will, and how he wants to work with you. To get rid of apathy, you** have to **take those first painful steps against inertia, and then you will gain momentum. Have you physically exercised?? The first time is a real strain, huh? But in time you gain endurance and strength and stamina. So make the first effort. Call your parish priest. Read Catholic literature. learn about the Catholic Church from THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Trust in God.

I will be praying nightly for you.

And God forgive me----How could I forget to tell you???Jesus is truly present, Body Blood Soul and Divinity in the Holy Eucharist . I know that you KNOW this, but you should experience this. Visit in adoration—recieve communion as often as possible during the week day masses, and present HIM with all you have told us. I gaurantee you: He WILL answer your concerns! . He will become so REAL to you, you would never want to be anywhere else but with Him.

He **would not **abandon us—You can surely trust Christ’s words that He would be with us until the end of time—He is with us in the Holy Eucharist. .

 

[KarenElissa]

…I mean, I still believe in Purgatory, and the intercession of the saints and in essence all of the fundamental Catholic doctrines, but the Protestant style of worship, prayer, preaching, and the whole oft-repeated “personal relationship with God” thing is just so attractive to me. For lack of a better way of putting it, I think I’m thinking along the lines of C.S. Lewis.

I’m almost 18. I sense that soon enough I’ll be making some big decisions about my faith. How can I get these Protestant ideas out of my head? I’ve read all the CA articles I can get my hands on, but I still find myself being able to look at issues from both sides and seeing them drawn inconclusive. It’s not really the debates that are bothering me, it’s the emotions and feelings of closeness to God which I really desire.

I have just a couple of thoughts for you. You seem to think that this “personal relationship” is only a Protestant thing. I would disagree. I remember one of the first couple of Masses I went to the priest talked about how faith isn’t only an assent to doctrines, but also a relationship with God. It struck me at because it always seemed that it was a Protestant thing, but here was the priest talking about it in Mass! A couple of different priests have mentioned it since then, and it has always struck me.

I also think about how much more personal can you get than receiving the body of Christ into your body? That seems like just about the most intimate relationship you can have!

It is also good to remember that emotions aren’t always the most telling thing. They can be helpful, but just because you don’t feel this connection, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. There have been plenty of times when I haven’t felt close to God, but you kind of just plod through them and eventually something happens and everything changes. I would agree with the other poster who said that if you still believe all the Catholic “stuff” then you are Catholic, whether you feel like it at this moment or not.

 

[Hellisreal]

What does a personal relationship mean to you OP?

 

[Mirdath]

These novels had gotten me praying again. I thought a bad tree couldn’t bear good fruit? This was where my doubt sort of began.

A bad tree might not bear good fruit, but it can still make for passable shade and a few cords of firewood There’s generally more to the nature of things than ‘this is good’ and ‘this is evil’.

Doubt – it happens. It’s not even necessarily a bad thing: if you aren’t questioning your faith, what good is it? You’ll never grow in understanding otherwise. It isn’t easy to bear, granted, but ‘easy’ wasn’t on the bill of sale when you entered the Church. I would suggest talking to your parish priest about it, since it worries you; he should be able to offer you some guidance and counsel.

Closeness to God is not exactly something I’m cut out to discuss, but all the best, and I hope you find it

 

[MVXC]

I appreciate the help and prayers everyone

What does a personal relationship mean to you OP?

I had to think about this one for awhile, but I guess aspects of my idea of it would basically be summed up by the whole charismatic movement. I think that’s always been one of my problems - the area where I live is so cut off from Catholicism, but there is a huge nondenominational presence. I’m walking distance from one of the biggest Protestant churches in America. There are no charismatic priests around here, and the parish priests are really found wanting in trying to connect with youth.

And like I said - all the Christian media here is dominated by Protestantism. As a matter of fact, I did used to frequent a Catholic bookstore, but the owner recently died and it closed up. I have a bit of an ironic story to tell on that account - I was on my way to the Catholic bookstore to pick up some reading material when I discovered it was closed, so I went instead to the used bookstore next door and picked up Left Behind! Anyways, I guess there’s always online ordering.

 

[pyropam]

I hope that you will read this and maybe it can be helpful to you. I am not much of a writer.

I’m a 44 year old mother of 4 and grandmother of 7. I was born into the “pentecostal protestant” faith. I was raised to believe all that the protestant churches think. By the time I was 12 or 13 years old, I began to question my faith. I would ask a question and the answer was alway truely avoided.

In the pentecostal faith, women could not cut their hair, wear jewelry (even a wedding band), wear pants, wear short sleeves, or wear makeup. None of this was in my bible.

By the time I was 20 or 21, the church changed the rules… makeup was ok, Goucho’s could be worn, short sleeves were fine, wedding bands were ok, haircuts were ok. Well, this made me angry. Why do they have so many rules that are ok to change?

Sometime during my young adult years, I just quit going to church. The “Speaking in of Tongues” which was a regular occurance in the church had began to feel like a mockery to me. I didn’t feel the presence of God. I tried changing churches to no avail.

I began my search for God several years later and visited many different denominations. I attended Methodist for a while, Baptist, then ended up in a non-denominational. The “non-Denominanational” church was too much like the “pentecostal” church I had started with. I gave up. I couldn’t stand it any more. They all had so many faults and so many “man-made” laws.

I had taken my husband (who was raised Catholic) to church with me on an Easter Sunday, he was disgusted! He said that there was no reason for a preacher to stand up and yell and jump around so much. He asked me why the preacher kept telling everyone how they were going to hell if they didn’t change their ways. Why is he condemning everyone? Needless to say, he told me he would never go back in that place or any other church other than the Catholic church.

I decided that “hey, I’m a christian, so I’ll try the Catholic church if he will go with me”. I started RCIA classes and WOW! The true bible was being taught! The history was there to back it up! The apolistic nature of the whole thing suddenly made sense. I became Catholic at 43 years of age.

Maybe you just need a renewal of your faith. Why don’t you try going to the RCIA classes at your parish? We have 40 people attending our classes, most of them are already Catholic and just trying to renew their faith and understanding.

The best way to describe it I think is sort of like a marriage between a man and a woman. You will get out of it no more than you put into it… You will lose your love for it if you don’t put some love into it.

God Bless you on your Journey! May the Father give you peace and understanding.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

MVXC

Having a personal relationship with Jesus, isn’t a protestant invention. Read the lives of the saints, they all had personal relationships with Jesus.

I have a personal relationship with Jesus, and it was Jesus who led me back to the Catholic Church.

When Christ came into my life, I too had experience with evangelical believers.

The one common thing I found about them was their hatred for Catholicism. They are very welcoming and open to your sharing the things that they accept, but they demand that you reject what they reject and Catholicism is on the top of the list.

Remember, faith is about love, not feelings and love is about giving of yourself. You are giving yourself to Jesus, thats what makes you a Christian, not the emotional high you can get at dynamic type religious services.

Today is the feast of St. Theresa of the Child Jesus. Have you ever read her “Story of a Soul?”

It might help!

Jim

 

[travelingrns]

I highly recommend reading Scott Hahn’s book “The Lambs Supper” I waited till I was 38 years old to read it or at least God gave it to me at 38. I’ve had the same doubts about The Church you are having. Trust me when I say you will never feel at home in a non-denominational service as much as you may try. I tried for years but have always felt like I was betraying my faith. This is not to say there is no value elsewhere. I have learned alot from my protestant brothers and sisters but the bottom line is the Lambs Supper at mass will suffice for all your wants and desires if you truly understand what is happening there despite the priest or the music. God Bless You for being brave enough to even ask for help.

 

[blacktiger057]

Please keep in mind the “Rapture” books are not Biblicy accurate. The sequence is not as the Bible lays it out. However they DID get you praying again This is a good thing

Yeah, praying out of pure fear. Personally, I think that that is far from a good thing…It’s downright sick.

 

[RobNY]

Hey MVXC. I’m a 19 year old Catholic guy. I too am trying to develop a, “personal relationship with Jesus.”

The feeling you feel isn’t odd or strange. Man at the center of his being wants to be united with God-- he wants to be happy. This is universal.

Here is what I would ask you to beware-- a feel good religion experience. It isn’t bad in itself, but it can be bad. Why? Because for every believer there comes a time when, “the honeymoon is over.” This will happen in any setting you are in.

And a note about the, ‘personal relationship’ angle which many Protestants have: it seems genuine and heartfelt. I won’t deny that it is. The style is, “spontaneous” and “unscripted” as opposed to the regulated method which Catholic liturgy has. Here are my observations: 1. no one is creative enough to be ‘spontaneous’ all the time. From my experience, Protestants aren’t. Each group which stresses this type of prayer has its own idiom. For instance, one group of very kind, loving Christians which I know tends to address God as, “Father God.” Usually when they prayer they repeat this invocation of God several times and stutter through some petitions of prayer. Of course, none of this is bad, but the simple truth is that creativity is very hard to maintain. While they find liturgical prayer to be impersonal and cold, this type of ‘spontaneity’ can easily descend into that very same thing-- except without the saving grace of being conscientiously composed. 2. The novelty which is associated with this, ‘free’ and heartfelt form of prayer can just as quickly wear off. Yes, it is free and spontaneous. Unfortunately, it is just as often shallow and uninspiring. I don’t mean this as an insult against Protestants. I only mean to say that it is difficult to compose a prayer with deep meaning on the spot.

And so the problem is this. The type of, “worship” which these Protestants enjoy engaging in has no staying power. It will become boring or empty quickly simply because it has no depth. It is outwardly flashy, but rather empty.

The exact opposite is how liturgical prayer works. It is not outwardly exciting. But realize-- it is not meant to be. It is meant to have staying power. It is meant to move with man’s natural rhythms as a living being. That’s why it functions along a liturgical cycle-- it ebbs and flows like real life does. And it has endless depth of meaning. It is awash in symbolism. The one who enters more deeply into the life of the Church is more able to extract the meaning from the liturgy, because the law of prayer is the law of belief.

The point, in the end, I think, is not to draw man to greater excitement, but into deeper silence. As the psalms say, “deep calls on deep.” Or rather, as in the example of Elijah, he heard God in the whisper of the wind-- in the silence. Excitement overstimulates us and distracts us from God. Liturgy quiets us, and in the regular motion, the ebb and flow of its movement, it allows us to enter ever more deeply into prayer. As the stimulation and the excitement of the world seeps away, we are left open to sense God’s presence and action in our lives. Then we are truly ready to have a personal relationship with Him, and to give ourselves in an awesome gift back to Him.

Sorry for so many words. Let me give you my specific advice to developing a personal relationship with God.

1. The Eucharist.

Protestants don’t have the Eucharist. You receive the person of Jesus Christ, whole and entire, in the Eucharist. Nothing will divinize you more effectively than the Eucharist.

1. Living a life of prayer.

This means both taking time to pray meditatively, and lifting your mind up to God. St. Therese of Lisieux is a great example of a person who led a life of prayer, and her Story of a Soul is an awesome read (as Jim pointed out).

I recommend this:

Try lectio divina for meditative prayer. It means, ‘sacred reading’ and involves meditating and praying Scripture. A very short but good introduction to lectio divina is a book called, “Too Deep for Words” by Thelma Hall.

As for lifting up your mind to God-- do exactly that throughout the day. Always think on Him. It’s kinda hard, and I’m terrible at it. A beautiful book to read is, “The Practice of the Presence of God” by Bro. Lawrence of the Resurrection.

I’m sure I could recommend more, but I’ll leave it there.

If you need Catholic fellowship of someone your age, I’m always open to talking. Feel free to private message me, and we can talk. If you want, we can use email or an instant messenger system. We are one body in Christ. I will pray for you, if you wish. Please pray for me.

-Rob

 

[Contarini]

Then one day I was in a used bookstore and saw the “Left Behind” series. I’d heard about it, and was curious, so I picked it up. I was drawn in by the idea of the Rapture,

But do you think the idea of the pre-trib Rapture is theologically sound? If so, why?

and even more so by the main characters, whose conversions to Christ made so much sense

They didn’t make sense to me.

and just seemed so spiritually pure I suppose.

Funny–I found most of the characters not only flat from a literary point of view but disturbingly amoral in their actions. Fighting evil in these books seems to have very little to do with promoting goodness, and all to do with sneaking around under the nose of the Antichrist (doing what exactly I can’t recall, perhaps because they really don’t do anything much, though that may be the fault of my memory).

I stopped reading it right then, but it made me think.

These novels had gotten me praying again. I thought a bad tree couldn’t bear good fruit?

But obviously insofar as the books promote faith in Christ, they are good trees. Insofar as they promote an irrational and in some ways immoral version of Christianity, they are bad trees.

God can use anything to get you praying again. My parents knew someone who came to faith in Christ through reading Thomas Hardy’s despairing, atheistic novel *Tess of the D’Urbervilles. *Being is good in and of itself, so everything that exists has some degree of goodness.

Over my time in innocently reading Left Behind and listening to Protestant sermons… well, I think I’ve started to become more attracted to them. I mean, I still believe in Purgatory, and the intercession of the saints and in essence all of the fundamental Catholic doctrines, but the Protestant style of worship, prayer, preaching,

I love traditional Protestant hymns and the more egalitarian structure of Protestantism, but other than that I respond very differently. I find the evangelical overemphasis on preaching to be repellent and even absurd (admittedly evangelicals do it better, but I prefer the Catholic style–a homily on the Scripture readings pointing to the Eucharist–though I’ve heard it done well in Anglicanism far more often than in the Roman Communion, unfortunately), and I don’t get much out of contemporary worship.

and the whole oft-repeated “personal relationship with God” thing is just so attractive to me. For lack of a better way of putting it, I think I’m thinking along the lines of C.S. Lewis.

I find that puzzling. C. S. Lewis was closer to Catholicism than to standard American evangelical Protestantism in his theology. How do you find Lewis’ understanding of our relationship with Jesus to be different from that of Catholicism? Where in Lewis do you see support for “the Protestant style of worship, prayer, preaching”? This was a man who went to daily (Anglican) mass whenever he could and described the Eucharist as “big medicine and strong magic.”

There are a lot of young Protestants who are feeling exactly the opposite–they are fed up with the superficiality of so much evangelicalism and are drawn to the richness of Catholicism. It seems to me that either the Catholic Church is the true Church or we should all just stay where we are and be faithful where God has called us (I am currently operating on the latter assumption, although I am open to the former possibility as well). Either way, I think you would be well advised to deepen your faith as a Catholic and resist the seduction of evangelical Protestantism, which has plenty of problems of its own. The grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence, you know. And it’s telling that you mention Lewis–hardly an evangelical by most definitions of the word–as exemplifying what attracts you to Protestantism.

Edwin

 

[Dirk_Skene]

Yeah, praying out of pure fear. Personally, I think that that is far from a good thing…It’s downright sick.

I was just trying to be encouraging.

 

[water]

I was just trying to be encouraging.

Who doesn’t pray when they are in fear. Your encouragement is fine. If we don’t love God with all our heart, at least we should be afraid that we can go to Hell.

 

[LoverofChrist]

Hi everyone,

I

These novels had gotten me praying again. I thought a bad tree couldn’t bear good fruit? This was where my doubt sort of began.

Additionally, after starting to read these books, I discovered a Christian radio station with a variety of (usually nondenominational) sermons and quiet worship music which I had become quite attached to during the rides to school and such. After reading the anti-Catholic bit in Left Behind, I was left a bit more cautious of any non-Catholic media. Since then I’ve stopped listening to this radio station too.

Over my time in innocently reading Left Behind and listening to Protestant sermons… well, I think I’ve started to become more attracted to them. I mean, I still believe in Purgatory, and the intercession of the saints and in essence all of the fundamental Catholic doctrines, but the Protestant style of worship, prayer, preaching, and the whole oft-repeated “personal relationship with God” thing is just so attractive to me. For lack of a better way of putting it, I think I’m thinking along the lines of C.S. Lewis.

I’m almost 18. I sense that soon enough I’ll be making some big decisions about my faith. How can I get these Protestant ideas out of my head? I’ve read all the CA articles I can get my hands on, but I still find myself being able to look at issues from both sides and seeing them drawn inconclusive. It’s not really the debates that are bothering me, it’s the emotions and feelings of closeness to God which I really desire.

First of all…I love the Left Behind stories…but they were just that…stories that entertained me…like a movie. But they are fictional and that is what you have got to remember. You have to be careful because satan is working you when you don’t keep it in perspective.

Second of all…why do you not think that Catholics have a personal realtionship with God? I do and I know many wonderful and devote Catholics that do also. Being Catholic doesn’t prevent you from that. If there isn’t a personal relationship…whose fault is that? Changing religion does not change that.

Last…I suggest that you read some of the writings of Scott Hahn and watch “Coming Home” with Marcu Grodi (sp?) on EWTN. Listen to what made these men realize that the Catholic church is where they needed to be.

God be with you as you look for answers and pray without ceasing that He open your mind and heart to the truth!!

 

[RobNY]

I love traditional Protestant hymns and the more egalitarian structure of Protestantism, but other than that I respond very differently. I find the evangelical overemphasis on preaching to be repellent and even absurd (admittedly evangelicals do it better, but I prefer the Catholic style–a homily on the Scripture readings pointing to the Eucharist–though I’ve heard it done well in Anglicanism far more often than in the Roman Communion, unfortunately), and I don’t get much out of contemporary worship.

I think one of the ironies of Evangelical worship lies here. Although they often are critical of liturgical worship, their style lends itself to being very man-centered. In other words, how good the service is depends totally on the charisma of the preacher, and hardly at all on Christ.

Liturgical worship, by contrast, relies almost totally on God (whether as He speaks through Scripture, or as He gives Himself to us through the Eucharist), and hardly at all on man. In fact, the doctrine against Donatism about sacraments working of themselves just further reinforces this point. The more I think about the liturgy, the more I realize how unimportant the homily is (relatively to everything).

I’m thankful to be at a Dominican institution right now, when it comes to homilies.

Besides, from what little I’ve heard on television and radios of Evangelical Christians preaching-- it’s not that good. I suppose because I look for sound doctrine it really disturbs me, but it seems to me that in general even the truism that Evangelical Christians are good at preaching is a bit over the top. (Although I do agree with your point at the woeful state of much Catholic preaching, Edwin.)

I find that puzzling. C. S. Lewis was closer to Catholicism than to standard American evangelical Protestantism in his theology. How do you find Lewis’ understanding of our relationship with Jesus to be different from that of Catholicism? Where in Lewis do you see support for “the Protestant style of worship, prayer, preaching”? This was a man who went to daily (Anglican) mass whenever he could and described the Eucharist as “big medicine and strong magic.”

If I ever wanted to ‘catholicize’ a Protestant, C.S. Lewis would have to be the best way. He’s simply too cognizant of Church history and far too liturgical to be called an Evangelical Christian. What’s funny though is that Evangelical Christians seem not to notice it. Mere Christianity is a big hit, but he outlines the faith as common to… I think, Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists and… Lutherans (perhaps?) in it. More traditional and confessional faiths. Evangelicalism is not on his radar in that book at all. (His introduction to On the Incarnation is enjoyable, but probably unknown to most evangelicals.)

-Rob