This is the only part I disagree with. I wouldn’t kick a dog, but not because I read in the Bible that it was a sin. The reason I wouldn’t kick a dog is because I have no reason to hurt the dog. Common sense…logic… Not all sense of right and wrong comes from reading about what’s right and wrong or being told. Most things are innate.
You had better watch yourself with that sort of behavior. You never know when you might inadvertently pick a fight with:I might punch a baby though. Never know when a situation might call for it.
I hate this line of thinking, more so the part of our opinion landing us in hell and our opinion doesn’t matter. It is a shame based way of thinking that is harmful to growth. People need to think for themselves in my opinion. People need to act like adults and not let the church authority become a 3rd parent. I think this is why people get frustrated with institutional religion. They all say Our way or the highway. and of course, in there eyes theirs is the right one and way. Come on, gangs do this, leave the gang you die. the gangs way or the highway, the churches way or the highway. Needless to say i don’t accept the infallibility of the Pope,anyway it is late and my thoughts aren’t clear. so i guess this is a start.
ejp123,I hate this line of thinking, more so the part of our opinion landing us in hell and our opinion doesn’t matter. It is a shame based way of thinking that is harmful to growth. People need to think for themselves in my opinion. People need to act like adults and not let the church authority become a 3rd parent. I think this is why people get frustrated with institutional religion. They all say Our way or the highway. and of course, in there eyes theirs is the right one and way. Come on, gangs do this, leave the gang you die. the gangs way or the highway, the churches way or the highway. Needless to say i don’t accept the infallibility of the Pope,anyway it is late and my thoughts aren’t clear. so i guess this is a start.
God does give each of us free will to think for ourselves. The church should be our educator and our guide in our faith journey. It also gives us our sacraments and commandments which help us determine right from wrong. Ultimately though, the choices we make are our own and we are held into account of them by God when we die.I hate this line of thinking, more so the part of our opinion landing us in hell and our opinion doesn’t matter. It is a shame based way of thinking that is harmful to growth. People need to think for themselves in my opinion. People need to act like adults and not let the church authority become a 3rd parent. I think this is why people get frustrated with institutional religion. They all say Our way or the highway. and of course, in there eyes theirs is the right one and way. Come on, gangs do this, leave the gang you die. the gangs way or the highway, the churches way or the highway. Needless to say i don’t accept the infallibility of the Pope,anyway it is late and my thoughts aren’t clear. so i guess this is a start.
As iread your words…I see how they match the ones in my mind and heart…were both in the same battle brother…I feel the same way. EXACTLY the same way…but I think me and you are in the right place…Catholics…seem to love men like us…where others seem to shun people like me away…Catholicism seems to be standing there with the bible saying come here and read thisI left the church before, for many years and it was horrible, and I promised God I’m not gonna do it again. And I’m not, I’m not I’m not I’m not. Spiritually I’m in the right place but I’m missing so many of the basics… Over the past few months I started to finally feel good about my relationship with God, and that hasn’t changed, but I listen to others talk at my church and I read some threads here and apparently there’s just a lot of important things I’m missing that just aren’t important to me… Most problems people seem to have are with premarital sex/masturbation - don’t get me wrong, they can be unhealthy if abused, but if not abused I don’t think it’s really a sin. There’s a lot of things I don’t think are really sins, I don’t care what the bible says.
I don’t care what the Bible says… I can’t believe I just wrote that. I really do care, a lot, but it’s easy for me to dismiss it sometimes. I haven’t picked up a Bible in years, I’m too scared of the friggin thing. Which is bad because I help with a youth ministry class once a week, and I was put in that position because I said I wanted to become a priest. I definitely don’t practice what I preach.
Has anyone started out this way and kind of worked their way up to being a better Catholic? My heart’s in it, but I don’t think my brain is, and I’m starting to get nervous. It’s not easy for me to give someone else control of me, but I finally did, and now I just have no idea what He wants for me or where He’s trying to lead me. I’m trying to listen, but sometimes I hear nothing, so maybe it means I have to figure things out on my own, but I don’t trust myself. I need the training wheels to go back on.
or “hey, have you heard of this saint? He’s alot like what your going through…”There is a great deal of idolatry, and I’d bet well over 90% of the typical pew-sitters fall prey to that mentality and don’t even know it. There is evidence of this everywhere from homilies at Mass to these forums. We have taken the Church herself to be our God, our Judge, our Savior. We say all the right things about Jesus, but what the pastor thinks of us is more important in many cases than what we know about ourselves. For these people, the Church points to herself, not to the Trinity as you say.
) told me about. Apparently some seminarians started doing these podcasts and as they progressed into deacons and/or priests they kept doing it.I promise to likewise only give honest responses, though I hope you will forgive me if I occasionally (OK - more than occasionally) “through Scripture at you” and/or quotes from the Catechism. But you see - you are asking for my “experience” and frankly - Scripture in the SS sense - played a very large role in my returning to the Church and building up my faith in Her.
An interesting observation…I’m not sure how you can think that Christ set the Church in place and it (“The Church”)still be fallible…but perhaps your experience is what has colored this. For me - there must be a separation between “Church” as in documented teachings (infallible) - and church members, even clergy) who are all too fallible…
Sounds like a lot of things going on here that of course we cannot get into here - all at once…But you sure have piqued my curiousity…
I hope that we will be able to help in some small way.This is wonderful to hear.
Just one of the many “fallible members” of the “infallible Church” I’m afraid…
What a wonderful analogy that priest provided…Just goes to show that there is good and bad to be had among our priests…
)Unfortunately this is the choice that I had made. However, I still keep up with reading scripture. I love the Popes book Jesus of Nazareth. vl 1 and 2. I love the movie Jesus of Nazareth. Gibsons’s movie all though I can watch it only once a year around Easter. To brutal to watch much more than that. I think I like these because I don’t feel condemned and judged and like Big Brother and the moral police are looking over me.Been there.
I don’t know if this is right or wrong, but I know when to stay away.
ejp123
I was away from the Church for 35 years. Never really “angry” with her, mostly just drifted. A lot of questions and not many “good” answers early on. Also a hard head that had to learn things “on my own”…
Trying to quote James. Not sure if it worked right, Anyway, This is a great point. I think we need to grow by doing things on our own sometimes. It appears that you use the words “hard head” in negative way, but I doubt that that is where you were coming from. You were exploring life and learning some of the do’s and don’ts along the way. If in the end you reached the same conclusion as the church then great, if not, then great too.!!! Should a person be punished if they don’t? Should they be punished and threatened while exploring? I don’t think they should. It only creates resistance and I think it disrespects the person and their integrity, or as in my case I think it pushed me into violating my own integrity. Out of fear, I disregarded my personal experience and made it irrelevant if it did not match the church, resulting in shame.
Well - when I use “hard head” it refers to my own stubbornness in rejecting “good counsel” and very often the actual lessons that experience should have taught me…JRKH;9395159:
Trying to quote James. Not sure if it worked right, Anyway, This is a great point. I think we need to grow by doing things on our own sometimes. It appears that you use the words “hard head” in negative way, but I doubt that that is where you were coming from. You were exploring life and learning some of the do’s and don’ts along the way.ejp123
I was away from the Church for 35 years. Never really “angry” with her, mostly just drifted. A lot of questions and not many “good” answers early on. Also a hard head that had to learn things “on my own”…
There is indeed a fine line between properly guiding making one aware of consequences etc. and threatening…Sometimes that line gets crossed…
ejp123,
Thank you for your very kind response to my post. I can see now much more clearly both why you put “catholic” in your profile and why you wrote so critically in your earlier posting.
Forgive me if I judged your position or intent too harshly.
Your response above has a number of interesting points - some of which I’d like to address, but not necessarily in the order presented…
I promise to likewise only give honest responses, though I hope you will forgive me if I occasionally (OK - more than occasionally) “through Scripture at you” and/or quotes from the Catechism. But you see - you are asking for my “experience” and frankly - Scripture in the SS sense - played a very large role in my returning to the Church and building up my faith in Her.
What I shared in my earlier posting was, in large part the conclusions that I came to - my experience - as regards to the role of Scripture and Church in the spiritual life.
Finally - in so far as “because the Pope says so” may not be a good enough answer, I agree…But then, as a Catholic acting like an adult, the next question should be Why did the Pope say so…I mean - the Pope doesn’t just spout teachings, doctrines and disciplines off the top of his head. These things are the result of much thought, prayer, discussion, and investigation - and by many people - all before “The Pope says so”. Something to keep in mind moving forward.
An interesting observation…I’m not sure how you can think that Christ set the Church in place and it (“The Church”)still be fallible…but perhaps your experience is what has colored this. For me - there must be a separation between “Church” as in documented teachings (infallible) - and church members, even clergy) who are all too fallible…
Not sure what to make of the “teeters on idolatry…” aspect…hhmmm…I can sort of “see” it, but think it would require some more investigation.
Sounds like a lot of things going on here that of course we cannot get into here - all at once…But you sure have piqued my curiousity…
This is wonderful to hear.
Just one of the many “fallible members” of the “infallible Church” I’m afraid…
What a wonderful analogy that priest provided…Just goes to show that there is good and bad to be had among our priests…
I was away from the Church for 35 years. Never really “angry” with her, mostly just drifted. A lot of questions and not many “good” answers early on. Also a hard head that had to learn things “on my own”…
But like you, my upbringing, the good examples I had in my family and just the real, basic goodness of Christ, of our Father, and His Church - especially in the Eucharist hung with me and eventually I was able to work out the issues (well - mostly…
Trust God first and foremost…
I’d share more of my experience here but we are limited to 6000 characters per post…
Plus it is hard to know what might be useful to you. I do look forward to sharing more in the future - perhaps here, perhaps on another thread or even through PM…
God Loves you - I Love you - and hope that you will be able to find answers and peace in His Holy Church very soon. CAF is a good place to work on this - but with so many voices it can also be confusing. Perhaps a good spiritual director is in order…
Peace
James
Much agreed, How something is said verses what is said can cause a lot confusion. The message can get lost if it is not presented in a manner that is inviting and of concern.