Doubts About Being Catholic

[Tigs]

InTraining, like you, I am “in training”. Waiting for RCIA to start and writing essays about where I am spiritually and WHY I’m there.

I think that we can get wrapped up in the “nos” and never see the “yes”. I can think of dozens of things that I’m not supposed to do… and REALLY want to. That “must” mean I’m a bad person, right? Why would I want to knowingly do something that my faith tells me is a bad thing?

Because I’m human. I pray about it.

The place you are in is- at least in my opinion- healthy. Exploring those issues that you see as conflicts with the church can lead to new insight. At least, it works that way for me.

Last I heard, the requirement wasn’t to achieve perfection but to continually be willing to TRY. Sounds to me like you do quite well with that.

 

[johnnyjones]

In Training, I’m not sure what thread on CAF you are referring to but I am afraid you must have misunderstood! As long as the act of intercourse ends in vaginal ejaculation, manual and oral stimulation for both woman and man are permitted. If you want to know more about this you can google Christopher West’s teachings on this. However, from what you write, it does not appear that you are anywhere near ready for marriage and family. I think what you are wondering about is whether or not the Bible is truly God’s Word. What you are feeling is quite common in today’s society. My niece just recently told me that she thinks the Bible is an “outline” and not all of it is applicable to today’s society. All I can do is pray for her to see the light. We either believe the Bible is God’s word or we don’t. We take it all or we leave it all. A lot of times people like to take Bible verses out of context and use them to justify whatever it is they want to do. But learning God’s word takes time and effort and we must not interpret it ourselves but rather defer to the Church–to the theologians who have studied the Bible in conjunction with History, both of the Church and of society. We also must look at Church Tradition, which has been preserved for over 2000 years–at the other writings of the Apostles and early Church Fathers (such as Ignatius and Clement). When we do that, it begins to make more sense. I will give you a personal example of what I’m talking about. I REALLY struggled with accepting that artificial birth control is wrong. All of the Protestant Churches accept it and it seemed to me as though even the majority of Catholics accept it. So I was on a Mission to find the Truth. I went into this with the mindset that I WANTED to find that artificial birth control is okay…but I was willing to submit to God if He could show me otherwise. This is what I found: At the start of my search, I pretty much thought that “be fruitful and multiply” could be taken purely as a BLESSING, not a COMMAND. God was blessing Adam and Eve (and later Noah) and there were no other people at the time so there was also a need to multiply. BUT as I looked further into this issue, I found the verse in the NT that convinced me once and for all that artificial birth control is a sin. It is in Galatians 5:19-21. It says, “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, SORCERY, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.” The word “sorcery” comes from the Greek word “pharmakeia” and refers to the pagan practice at the time of taking “potions” to render temporary sterility or to cause abortions in women. There is more evidence in the Didache that this is what sorcery is really referring to. I immediately thought of the “pill” and how it can cause abortions by rendering the womb unreceptive to a fertilized egg. This totally changed my mind on the subject. I totally get it now. But I think you are WAY AHEAD of yourself, worrying about your future and how you would handle NFP with your wife…when you are not even considering marriage at this point!! My suggestion is for you to SLOW DOWN and take it ONE DAY AT A TIME. Go to Confession. Ask God to give you the Grace to remain Chaste at this time in your life. Just do it for now because you know it is the teaching of the Church. Then do your research and pray…and if you’re really searching for Truth, God will show it to you!! Don’t worry about all that you have to follow and all that you must do to live a Holy Life because if you do it will overwhelm you. Instead, ask God to help you to do His Will for THIS moment of THIS day.

Unfortunately the OT is an "outline’ for many Catholics. Selective allergories for learning.

 

[In_Training]

Unfortunately the OT is an "outline’ for many Catholics. Selective allergories for learning.

Not sure I get why you’re copying and pasting another user’s post here, since it was from a different thread, but I did think it was good advice.

However, I never interpreted anything to be an outline. I do think that a lot of the Bible’s parables have deeper meanings to provide examples for seeing the good in situations and learning to act accordingly - not always taking everything literally, as some Catholics do.

 

[johnnyjones]

Not sure I get why you’re copying and pasting another user’s post here, since it was from a different thread, but I did think it was good advice.

However, I never interpreted anything to be an outline. I do think that a lot of the Bible’s parables have deeper meanings to provide examples for seeing the good in situations and learning to act accordingly - not always taking everything literally, as some Catholics do.

I didn’t copy and paste anything. I don’t know what your referring to.

I was referrencing the bible is an “outline” quote by the niece. I’m talking about Genesis being a story to “help us understand creation” or the Red Sea parting being non literal etc.

 

[In_Training]

I didn’t copy and paste anything. I don’t know what your referring to.

I was referrencing the bible is an “outline” quote by the niece. I’m talking about Genesis being a story to “help us understand creation” or the Red Sea parting being non literal etc.

Yeah I wasn’t talking about anything specific about the Bible. I just need to read the whole thing over. Is the Bible meant to be taken literally? I don’t think so.

 

[johnnyjones]

Yeah I wasn’t talking about anything specific about the Bible. I just need to read the whole thing over. Is the Bible meant to be taken literally? I don’t think so.

Then you would have to know what parts are literal and what parts are not. That’s a conundrum for some. If the salvation plan is clear, why not how we came into existence being clear.

 

[Stratocatholic]

It can be very difficult to give God the full assent of your will when you want to hang on to the very things of the world, that Christ wants you to let go of. The Church is given its authority and in turn, the Bible, by the Church. We turn to the most difficult Church and Christ with the most difficult questions of our lives. Our opinion doesn’t matter. Christ is the judge of those things which for all intents and purposes, takes those questions out of our hands. At some point, you have to stop trying to rationalize the things which you think are okay which Christ says no to. Pray and know that Christ is right and speaks through the authority of the Church with the fullness of truth. I speak from experience on these matters. Your opinion could land you in hell. Christ’s, who IS Truth, will lead you only to him and the fullness of eternal life, and life abundant.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Then you would have to know what parts are literal and what parts are not. That’s a conundrum for some. If the salvation plan is clear, why not how we came into existence being clear.

You don’t actually have to “know” anything, as far as it’s historical accuracy, to benefit from the Bible. According to Scripture, knowledge puffs up with pride.

Just read it. Savor it. Reflect on it. Read a passage and sit quietly. This brings you into deeper communion with Jesus than trying to figure out the literal stuff. There are plenty of theologians to argue that, and it will never be resolved because the literal meaning is the shallowest interpretation of the Bible, compared to allegorical and contemplative, for example. Let CAF posters argue about whether the earth was made in six 24-hour periods, or which account of Noah in Genesis is the “correct” one. Unless you’re into arguing for the sake of arguing – because it isn’t arguing to win anything except pride or anger or other problems people who argue encounter.

So really, don’t worry about what’s literal and what’s not. The question is, “what does it say to you,” and beyond that it is the living Word that doesn’t even need questions asked.

Alan

 

[toosan1967]

Be careful. It sounds like you are getting to a point of toxic shame. =in this context, a belief that you are defective, bad, or evil at the core of who you are for not being the perfect catholic. Who is? no one!! You are not evil or bad, God created us all good. With that being said, I felt as you did in a situation that i was in. I discussed it with a deacon. He told me my issue was between me and God. He didn’t bombard me with scripture, laws and commandments. I agree with you in that not everything is as black and white as we wish it could be. You are not alone in your struggle. Many many many people feel what you do to the point that books have been written about it under spiritual abuse and being addicted to God or religion. Religiosity or scrupulosity. Be careful because it sounds like you are driving yourself insane trying to be holy. Personally, I don’t think God wants or expects this kind of anxiety and shame from us.

Thanks ejp for bringing this aspect of IT’s concerns to the fore. I’ve been anxious to use a quote I was moved by years ago from a great Christian - though I’m not sure he was not an Anglican rather than a Catholic. Doesn’t really matter: I think his advice was profound. He was responding to a Nun who had some real problems with being a ‘perfect’ Christian as follows:

                               "     Do not exhaust yourself by making *efforts.*  You seem
                               to still think that you can make yourself good!  You can't.  But God
                               can, and will; though slowly, perhaps. . . .  Try to be simply at His
                               disposition, ready to be recollected or distracted as He wills; to
                               feel good, or to feel wicked (which is nearer to humility), to be 
                               wretched or consoled.  I know the darkness is appalling sometimes;
                               but it is the only way of learning that we depend entirely on God, 
                               that we have nothing from ourselves, that even our love and desire of
                               Him tends to be selfish.  The "royal way of the Holy Cross" is the only
                               way.  But you will find out that the darkness is God Himself; the
                               suffering **is** His nearness."  (Dom John Chapman)

 Hope this helps.  May God Bless Us All.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

                               "     Do not exhaust yourself by making *efforts.*  You seem
                               to still think that you can make yourself good!  You can't.  But God
                               can, and will; though slowly, perhaps. . . .  Try to be simply at His
                               disposition, ready to be recollected or distracted as He wills; to
                               feel good, or to feel wicked (which is nearer to humility), to be 
                               wretched or consoled.  I know the darkness is appalling sometimes;
                               but it is the only way of learning that we depend entirely on God, 
                               that we have nothing from ourselves, that even our love and desire of
                               Him tends to be selfish.  The "royal way of the Holy Cross" is the only
                               way.  But you will find out that the darkness is God Himself; the
                               suffering **is** His nearness."  (Dom John Chapman)

 Hope this helps.  May God Bless Us All.

I love it! Thanks for posting!

 

[johnnyjones]

You don’t actually have to “know” anything, as far as it’s historical accuracy, to benefit from the Bible. According to Scripture, knowledge puffs up with pride.

Just read it. Savor it. Reflect on it. Read a passage and sit quietly. This brings you into deeper communion with Jesus than trying to figure out the literal stuff. There are plenty of theologians to argue that, and it will never be resolved because the literal meaning is the shallowest interpretation of the Bible, compared to allegorical and contemplative, for example. Let CAF posters argue about whether the earth was made in six 24-hour periods, or which account of Noah in Genesis is the “correct” one. Unless you’re into arguing for the sake of arguing – because it isn’t arguing to win anything except pride or anger or other problems people who argue encounter.

So really, don’t worry about what’s literal and what’s not. The question is, “what does it say to you,” and beyond that it is the living Word that doesn’t even need questions asked.

Alan

You make some good points. For me, I remain curious as to what happened with God and his people and what is just a story to “help me understand”. I do agree ultimately the “what does it say to me” mentality is a good one but going beyond that does have relevance. If a good portion of the OT are just allegories it detracts from the actual miracles of God. Do I need to find the real Noah’s Ark anymore than I need to find the actual cross of Christ to believe it happened?

200 years from now some of our events might seem far fetched and our lingo such as “raining cats and dogs” in a book may need to be explained because some child (or adult) may think dogs and cats came out of the sky. Yes there is a time for figurative language but if the language conveys an entire story of a man building an ark for example I see no reason to doubt it.

Jesus rising from the dead defies logic yet to be a Christian you must believe that. But the stories of Noah, Genesis, Red Sea etc are put out there as fables with a nice message by many. Is our God so weak He couldn’t have done any of these things? Since when is what the human mind can’t understand a basis for not accepting the astounding things of God? Fortunately the Catholic Church does not mandate I accept all of the OT books as allegories.

 

[Lady_Love]

Keep your promise to God and do not leave Him. So many are leaving Him and it breaks His heart. Go frequently to communion and Jesus will sustain you through His presence. God is very patient and kind. He knows that it takes time for us to change. He knows that we are frightened little sheep.:frighten:

It can be scary to read scriptures sometimes because they do expose our sinfulness. But this is a great gift. When we are convicted it is God’s way of freeing you from bondage. You have the opportunity to confess the sin and be released of it’s burden. Just look at Jesus on the cross, THAT is the burden of our sins. Too heavy for us to carry and He takes it from you.

As far as issues regarding proper placement of sexual desires I HIGHLY recommend listening to “Naked Without Shame” theology on the body. I found this extremely healing, ordering my desires in their right place without having to feel shame. Our desires are not evil just misplaced. There is nothing to fear…Jesus is here!:bounce:

Do not be discouraged for that comes from the devil. The spirit of God is a spirit of peace. “Peace I leave with you, My peace I give you.”:hug3:

 

[In_Training]

It can be very difficult to give God the full assent of your will when you want to hang on to the very things of the world, that Christ wants you to let go of. The Church is given its authority and in turn, the Bible, by the Church. We turn to the most difficult Church and Christ with the most difficult questions of our lives. Our opinion doesn’t matter. Christ is the judge of those things which for all intents and purposes, takes those questions out of our hands. At some point, you have to stop trying to rationalize the things which you think are okay which Christ says no to. Pray and know that Christ is right and speaks through the authority of the Church with the fullness of truth. I speak from experience on these matters. Your opinion could land you in hell. Christ’s, who IS Truth, will lead you only to him and the fullness of eternal life, and life abundant.

Did Christ make me to think this way? If I’m a product of God I would think He made me somewhat in His reflection anyway… So shouldn’t He automatically have control? I don’t know how to give it. Only Christ gave God total control, and I can’t compete with that. I’m not expected to die on a cross.

As for the hell thing, I’d be more heartbroken than anything else, to be told I’d screwed up enough to actually deserve that. But I wouldn’t argue. Whatever God decides, I trust it.

I don’t mean to keep rationalizing things Christ says no to. I just keep thinking I have other options, I could just walk away, I could just leave, I could just say no, and not live by the Bible…It would be so easy… Just because it’s easy doesn’t mean it’s right.

I’ve been thinking God gave me a 2nd chance, and I know I’m gonna blow it, if I haven’t already. So now I picture it as an archery game I have for Wii (don’t laugh, you can be a very mature person and still enjoy video games). I don’t get high-score every time, but as long as I’m aiming for the bullseye it doesn’t matter if I don’t hit it every time. Don’t laugh. I’m actually extremely mature. Sometimes.

 

[In_Training]

Our desires are not evil just misplaced. There is nothing to fear…Jesus is here!:bounce:

Do not be discouraged for that comes from the devil. The spirit of God is a spirit of peace. “Peace I leave with you, My peace I give you.”:hug3:

I posted on another thread that desires are not evil, but this week I can’t stop thinking about how hot the Kardashians are. That’s evil and scary, I’ll admit that. :frighten:

 

[wondrousgnat]

Probably the biggest reason I became Catholic was because of its stand against abortion. Other reasons too.

But four years ago I moved and joined a new parish. This one has no activities to get involved in and not one person knows my name. I go to mass every Sunday and some weekdays yet feel I do not belong. So I came to this room to meet Catholics but have dealt with some personal insults.And I am getting tired of it.
At my wife’s church ,ELCA, many people know me by name and I have been involved in some of their bible studies and other activities. I would be very welcome there but the denomination has some views I cannot go with.

 

[Dejagirl]

Probably the biggest reason I became Catholic was because of its stand against abortion. Other reasons too.

But four years ago I moved and joined a new parish. This one has no activities to get involved in and not one person knows my name. I go to mass every Sunday and some weekdays yet feel I do not belong. So I came to this room to meet Catholics but have dealt with some personal insults.And I am getting tired of it.
At my wife’s church ,ELCA, many people know me by name and I have been involved in some of their bible studies and other activities. I would be very welcome there but the denomination has some views I cannot go with.

I’m sorry you are not having a better experience with your parish. Is there another catholic church close to you that you could try? Certainly, pray for your current parish whatever you decide to do. There’s a reason God brought you there…perhaps through your efforts and prayers, you could help make some positive changes. Continue to ask God for his love and guidance in your faith journey, but please don’t let this unfortunate experience turn you away from your Catholic faith. I will pray for you.

 

[In_Training]

Unfortunately I think people have a lot of bad experiences with churches or with other Catholics in general and don’t want to be a part of that anymore. That’s probably what turns most people away who would have been participating Catholics otherwise.

I see issues in my old schools, in my church and even on CAF some people ask some really strange questions. Not that all my posts always make sense to everyone, but something that really bothers me is when people ask stuff like, is it okay for a Catholic to go to mini-golf, or is it a sin to make a right turn on red, or will I go to hell for sleeping in the same apartment complex as an opposite sex neighbor… come on… it’s like people assume that being Catholic means that everything is automatically a sin unless they are told otherwise. That’s really discouraging…

And then you have your ‘holier than thou’ crowd, comprised of the people who demonize you for every mistake you’ve ever made, even if it’s not a sin (for example, claiming that wearing a black tee shirt means you’re evil, or that fitness classes summon demons and cause demonic possession).

A lot of people misunderstand and misrepresent the religion, and that can be very discouraging and misleading for others who are trying to follow.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

is it okay for a Catholic to go to mini-golf, or is it a sin to make a right turn on red, or will I go to hell for sleeping in the same apartment complex as an opposite sex neighbor… come on… it’s like people assume that being Catholic means that everything is automatically a sin unless they are told otherwise. That’s really discouraging…

:clapping:

And then you have your ‘holier than thou’ crowd, comprised of the people who demonize you for every mistake you’ve ever made, even if it’s not a sin (for example, claiming that wearing a black tee shirt means you’re evil, or that fitness classes summon demons and cause demonic possession).

:clapping:

A lot of people misunderstand and misrepresent the religion, and that can be very discouraging and misleading for others who are trying to follow.

 

[Julia_Mae]

And then you have your ‘holier than thou’ crowd, comprised of the people who demonize you for every mistake you’ve ever made, even if it’s not a sin (for example, claiming that wearing a black tee shirt means you’re evil, or that fitness classes summon demons and cause demonic possession)…

It doesn’t really have anything to do with religion, it has to do with people.

If there was no religion they’d be demonizing you because of your clothes, hair, speech, how often you mow your lawn, how loudly you speak, if you are right handed or have an accent or if your middle toe is longest.

The problem is so many think if someone is religious they should be better - or good somehow.

People **** well - none are good. That’s the deal. Anything at all good is from God. Jesus came to call sinners. He was quite successful. The only part that’s comforting is: we all are the same and we all are loved.

Knowing your sin is a great and good thing. Otherwise we are liable to kick our dog or punch our child and decide it wasn’t really such a bad thing. Yes, yes it’s very very very bad. The things we did that were bad, for whatever reason, were bad. Admit, acknowledge, apologize, regret, confess, move on.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

It doesn’t really have anything to do with religion, it has to do with people.

If there was no religion they’d be demonizing you because of your clothes, hair, speech, how often you mow your lawn, how loudly you speak, if you are right handed or have an accent or if your middle toe is longest.

The problem is so many think if someone is religious they should be better - or good somehow.

I think you make a great point. Religious demonizing is really just one particular type of demonizing.

Alan