Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

[djconklin]

You MUST BELONG TO CHRIST.

Excellant point!

Galatians 2:20 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Again, you subsitute the Sabbath for Christ.

No SDA substitutes the Sabbath for Christ. We are saved only by Christ. If you are in Christ, then you’ll want to worship Him on His Sabbath, like He asked you to do.

 

[greggy53]

I believe the bottom line in the Saturday/ Sunday worship issue is this:
YES
The Holy Roman Catholic Church officially made Sunday the day of worship. When it happened in my opinion is inconsequential.
YES
The Holy Roman Catholic church had the authority from God to do so. If the Holy Roman Catholic Church decided to worship on Tuesdays that would be just fine with me. I acknowledge the authority that Jesus Christ gave to St Peter and the apostles. I believe that that authority and hierarchy was passed down from generation to generation, and is well documented. with the knowledge that Christ would not allow his church to fail. No other church on earth can demonstrate that they posses that authority, and until someone can convince me otherwise I’m taking Jesus at his word.

 

[djconklin]

An Unbroken String of Failures Predicting Christ’s Return

Usually a string of pearls has more than just one pearl on it.

The 1856 prediction was the last in an amazingly unsuccessful series of predictions of Christ’s return made by Ellen White. Lucinda Burdick, a friend of Mrs. White in the 1840’s, explains how Mrs. White often predicted Christ’s return:

Now, as what Paul Harvey would say, for the rest of the story:

What they don’t tell you is that in 1856 Burdick would have still been a child.

What they don’t tell you is that Burdick’s first husband was John Howell, an antagonist of Ellen Harmon during 1845 who later became an Advent minister.

What they don’t tell you is that there are two versions of the same story one from 1874 and the other from 1908.

What they don’t tell you is the rebuttal–they pass along only what they want you to know. And because you are quite busy enough and haven’t been trained in how to check, you won’t double-check what they say. A short cut on that is to watch and see if it (or anything else from the same source) has been rebutted and note the source it came from and then never, ever listen to that source again.

Ellen White’s rebuttal within two months:

Within two months Ellen White responded privately to Grant’s July 1, 1874 Crisis in a letter to J. N. Loughborough declaring, “I hereby testify in the fear of God that the charges of Miles Grant, of Mrs. Burdick and others published in the “Crisis” are not true” (Lt. 2, 1874; 8MR 228). She added:“Now the very ones who were deepest in fanaticism cruelly charge upon me that delusion which I had not the slightest sympathy with, but from which my soul recoiled. And I bore a straightforward testimony to condemn these fanatical movements from first to last. Mrs. Burdick has made statements which are glaring falsehoods. There is not a shade of truth in her statements. Can it be that she has repeated these false statements till she sincerely believes them to be truth?” (Lt. 2, 1874; 8MR, 238). Throughout the letter, Mrs. White refutes various statements by Mrs. Burdick, something she rarely did.

1875 Truesdail rebuttal:

In 1875 Marion C. S. Truesdail (later Crawford), who was acquainted with the young Ellen Harmon in 1845, specifically responded to Burdick’s charges in a public statement signed by herself and five others that corroborated Ellen White’s private letter to Loughborough. Click here to read:“A Statement Regarding the Charges of Mrs. L.S. Burdick by Marion C. S. Truesdail.” @ ellenwhiteanswers.org/critics/ellenwhite/Contemporarytestimonies/truesdailstatement

**1860 public statement: **

In 1860 Marion’s maiden name, Marion C. Stowell, appears in a public statement with 28 other signatures (26 signatures are different from the ones in the Truesdale statement–three appear on both lists) testifying that James and Ellen White were never “the least infected with the spirit or works of fanaticism” (2SG 301). The focus of these witnesses was on the general charge of “fanaticism.” They were not responding specifically to Lucinda Burdick. But their witness statement does apply to Lucinda’s charges. To read the entire statement, click here: ellenwhiteanswers.org/critics/ellenwhite/Contemporarytestimonies/Earlyfanaticism

1858 public statement:

While not addressing Lucinda directly, this public statement did address the same kind of charges, such as the one that James and Ellen were in a “wild fanaticism,” creeping “on the floor like little children” (Grant 1874, 72f). The significance of this public statement was in the nature of its eight signatures (not all of them were Seventh-day Adventists), and the fact that it addressed various documents in circulation against James and Ellen. The content of these documents would resurface over the years, such as in the charges of Lucinda Burdick. To read this public statement, click here: ellenwhiteanswers.org/critics/ellenwhite/Contemporarytestimonies/fanaticismreports.

found online at: ellenwhiteanswers.org/critics/lucindaburdick​

A rule I learned in dealing with the critics: never, ever trust them to tell you the whole truth and nothing but the truth–they never will do it.

Note also the 1st statement in my tag line.

 

[djconklin]

When Christ did not return as expected in the early 1850s, Mrs. White gradually stopped making specific predictions about His return.

And why don’t they tell what these other predictions were? Will it “hold up” (ROFL!) like the one that they did tell you about? Or, could it be that there aren’t any more? Who is more likely to check, an easy believer, or a skeptic?

 

[djconklin]

“We do not attack Catholics for worshipping on Sunday–again you were lied to and you believed them. Pastors in our church get up and tell the congregation that there will be more Catholics in heaven than SDA’s because they are living up to the light they know and too many SDA’s aren’t…” ~djconklin

Well, I guess this myth has been dispelled.

I hope so! But why did you shrug your shoulders?

 

[djconklin]

That is interesting that her name, her actual name, not her title adds up to 666…

Same with Bill Gates.

By doing computations with different systems these names and things add up to be 666: kissinger, van den broek, lustiger… hitler, deutschland, himmler… new york, us of america, santa claus, kennedy, al gore… Holy Bible, SS number, witchcraft, lustful, monetary, live, son of sin, mark of beast, evil, bullet… internet, billgates+3 (the III), computer, terminal, binairy, windows78, teletext, calculation

For one reason or another all these religious and political celebrities and institutions have been considered the Antichrist by someone: Papacy, Luther, Pope John Paul II, Pat Robertson, Mormons, Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Sun Myung Moon, Freemasonry, Illuminati… Arafat, Ayatollah Khomeini, Saddam Hussein, Kennedy, Gorvachev, Clinton, Al Gore, Bill Gates, David Rockefeller, Kissinger, Mussolini, Hitler, Nero, Reagan, Saddam Hussein, Willy Brandt, Caligula, King Juan Carlos of Spain, Emperor Frederick II of Germany, King George II of England, Emperor Justinian, Nikita Khrushchev, Napoleon Bonaparte, Czar Peter the Great, Josef Stalin, Kaiser Wilhelm, Boris Yeltsin, Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg…

found online at religion-cults.com/antichrist/666.htm

The fatal flaw for all of these is that there’s more than just the number of teh name.

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

If you are in Christ, then you’ll want to worship Him on His Sabbath, like He asked you to do.

And where did Christ ask anyone to worship Him on the sabbath?

God bless all!!!

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Would you please read this and share your thoughts with me on what it says? Thanks!!

αμαθεστατε και κακε, αφες τον παλαιον, μη μεταποιει

God bless all!!!

I would still like you to read the above greek and share you thoughts on what it means and why those words in that gramatical structure were used and what that means to you.

Thanks!

God bless all!!!

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

I hope so! But why did you shrug your shoulders?

“We do not attack Catholics for worshipping on Sunday–again you were lied to and you believed them. **Pastors in our church get up and tell the congregation that there will be more Catholics in heaven than SDA’s **because they are living up to the light they know and too many SDA’s aren’t…” ~djconklin

If that is indeed true that your pastors say that as you state, then it would behoove SDAs to become Catholics just as soon as they can!!!

God bless all!!!

 

[josie_L]

This is something to laugh a little . Some are really exposing themselves with their words. This was written in defense to Catholic preaching that Peter was in Rome.

Read it everyone so you know that the code name for Babylon is Rome. And what the Bible tells us: to live that Babylon… And to the top,they preach they are church of God and we read in 2.Thessalonians 2;3,4 Let no one deceives you by any means for the Day will not come unless the falling away comes first and the MAN of sin is revealed the son of perdition who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped so that he sits as God in the temple of God showing himself that he is God.

SHE IS A FALSE PROPHET:

1. WAS THE PLAN OF SALVATION MADE AFTER THE FALL?

EGW: YES “The kingdom of grace was instituted immediately after the fall of man, when a plan was devised for the redemption of the guilty race” (Great Controversy, p. 347).

BIBLE: NO “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake” (1 Peter 1:18-20).

BIBLE: NO “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight” (Ephesians 1:4).

NOTE: The Gospel of salvation through grace by faith in Jesus Christ was already in existence before the creation of this world. EGW contradicts the Bible by claiming the plan of salvation was devised after the fall of Adam and Eve.

1. WAS ADAM WITH EVE WHEN SHE WAS TEMPTED IN THE GARDEN?

EGW: NO “The angels had cautioned Eve to beware of separating herself from her husband while occupied in their daily labor in the garden; with him she would be in less temptation than if she were alone. But absorbed in her pleasing task, she unconsciously wandered from his side. On perceiving that she was alone, she felt an apprehension of danger. … She soon found herself gazing with mingled curiosity and admiration upon the forbidden tree” (Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 53, 54).

BIBLE: YES Gen 3:6 (NIV) 6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

1. WAS ADAM DECEIVED BY SATAN?

EGW: YES “Satan, who is the father of lies, deceived Adam in a similar way, telling him that he need not obey God, that he would not die if he transgressed the law” (Evangelism, p. 598).

BIBLE: NO “And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner” (1 Timothy 2:14).

Note: Who showed E. G. White that Satan deceived Adam, when the Bible says Adam was not deceived? So who is deceiving us?

1. WHO SPOKE TO CAIN?

EGW: ANGEL “Through an angel messenger the divine warning was conveyed: ‘If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?’” (Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 74).

BIBLE: LORD “Then the Lord said to Cain, ‘Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right will you not be accepted?’ … So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence” (Genesis 4:6, 7, 10, 13, 15, 16).

NOTE: SDAs often try to reconcile this contradiction by claiming the Lord spoke to Cain through an angel. If so, then why didn’t the Bible tell us the truth? When Moses wrote this account, why didn’t God tell Moses He spoke to Cain through an angel? Why would our omniscient God let Moses write down the wrong thing? And, if EGW is right, then Jesus was wrong when He said in John 17:17, “Your word is truth.” For EGW to be right, the Bible, Moses, and Jesus Christ all have to be wrong!

1. WHO PLUCKED THE FRUIT?

EGW: THE SERPENT “The serpent plucked the fruit of the forbidden tree and placed it in the hands of the half-reluctant Eve.” (Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 55).

EGW: EVE “Without a fear she (Eve) plucked and ate.” (Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 56).

BIBLE: EVE “When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.” (Genesis 3:6).

NOTE: Who did it?

truthorfables.com/EGW_Contradicts.htm

 

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by djconklin
If we go by the majority and since the majority of the Jews rejected Jesus as the messiah then you should to. Consult a Jew (according to HC–using the rule proposed by HC vs. actually checking Scripture.) to find out who is the Messiah. I don’t care what any church says, nor do I find the right by counting noses, or finding out which way the wind blows, I go by the Bible vs. traditions brought in by the pagans.

You won’t follow Sacred Tradition passed on by Christ himself, but you’ll tag right along behind the likes of Ellen White. Awesome.

Christ pointed His disciples to the Bible. The Bereans were commended for checking the Scriptures. I don’t use EGW when it comes to theology–you were lied to about what I do.

Is there something in your fundemental beliefs that says you have to have such disdain for God’s chosen people or do you just practice that on your own?

Hmm, you might wish to check some papal statements about the Jews. And since I don’t “disdain” them (or anyone else) that’s another lie you were told.

 

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by djconklin
And we’re still waiting for the proof. Repitition doesn’t make it true.

Read the 613 Commandments. I’m sure it’s there somewhere.

A quess isn’t support. Besides, since you made the claim, you have the burden of proof. Here’s the 613: jewfaq.org/613.htm;

knock yourself out–its also interesting reading.

 

[djconklin]

To coin a term: “Where’s that in Scripture”? “Where’s the proof of that in Scripture”? Where does it say in Scripture that there are no more Jews??? As long as Jews practice their faith as Jews, there will be Jews. Gosh someone needs to tell the rest of the world your revelation that there are no more Jews.

In Christ there is:

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[happilycatholic]

Excellant point!

Galatians 2:20 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

No SDA substitutes the Sabbath for Christ. We are saved only by Christ. If you are in Christ, then you’ll want to worship Him on His Sabbath, like He asked you to do.

When did Christ ask us to worship Him on the Sabbath?

God asked the Isrealites to remember Him in the Sabbath. Christ asks us to remember Him in the Eucharist.

When did Christ ever tell us to remember Him, His Resurrection, or the Eucharist in the Sabbath?

 

[happilycatholic]

In Christ there is:

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

I’ve already explained how Bible Truth has taken this passage out of context. Read it.

If you are not in Christ, you are not one with Christ. Jews could not be “in Christ” therefore they are still Jews as opposed to Christians.

This is not rocket science.

 

[happilycatholic]

Read the 613 Commandments. I’m sure it’s there somewhere.

A quess isn’t support. Besides, since you made the claim, you have the burden of proof. Here’s the 613: jewfaq.org/613.htm;

knock yourself out–its also interesting reading.

There is a complete explaination of how to keep the Sabbath holy on that very website. Yes, please knock yourself out and yes it is interesting reading.

 

[happilycatholic]

Christ pointed His disciples to the Bible. The Bereans were commended for checking the Scriptures. I don’t use EGW when it comes to theology–you were lied to about what I do.

Your conference wesite lists her as a prophet. Can you tell me where she is listed in Scripture as a prophet?

Hmm, you might wish to check some papal statements about the Jews. And since I don’t “disdain” them (or anyone else) that’s another lie you were told.

 

[happilycatholic]

Christ pointed His disciples to the Bible. The Bereans were commended for checking the Scriptures. I don’t use EGW when it comes to theology–you were lied to about what I do.

Hmm, you might wish to check some papal statements about the Jews. And since I don’t “disdain” them (or anyone else) that’s another lie you were told.

We’re not talking about the Pope. We’re talking about you. If you don’t have disdain for a race you call murderers, then what is that?

You’ve made several comments on this thread like that. You are really good at denying things you’ve said on here. I spent a lot of time last night going through all the posts on this thread and that is played out over and over.

You’re right, I’ve been lied to. By you.

 

[djconklin]

This is how the SDA spread their malicous lies. Most people don’t understand that in the 4th century less than 10 % of the entire polulation of the world could read and write Greek.

Not relevant how many people could read and write. Augustine once herad someone “reading” Romans outside his house. When he went to see who it was he found that the guy was blind. Supposedly (I’m told it isn’t true, but its neat nonetheless …) when Jerome translated the Bible into Latin (most people couldn’t read or write that either–some people lie by not telling you that) he used the word “vine” for Jonah’s gourd. So, when the priest was reading it the people shouted, “No, gourd, gourd!” When the Bereans were checking Scripture to see if what Paul was saying was true or not, were they reading it? Or, were they cross-checking from memory? Maybe one could read–but, how many scrolls on the Bible were there at that time? In Berea?

Some people may be misinformed, or uninformed, some have been lied to and didn’t check their source(s). But, that doesn’t make them “malicious.”

 

[josie_L]

1. That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.

“2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws…

“It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible.” Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Magazine, USA (1975), Chicago, Illinois, “Under the blessing of the Pope Pius XI”

“The arguments…are firmly grounded on the word of God, and having been closely studied with the Bible in hand, leave no escape for the conscientious Protestant except the abandonment of Sunday worship and the return to Saturday, commanded by their teacher, the Bible, or, unwilling to abandon the tradition of the Catholic Church, which enjoins the keeping of Sunday, and which they have accepted in direct opposition to their teacher, the Bible, consistently accept her (the Catholic Church) in all her teachings. Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicism and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible.” James Cardinal Gibbons, in Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893.

“Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday.” Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

“The (Roman Catholic) Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday.” The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.
“Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:
“I am going to propose a very plain and serious question to those who follow ‘the Bible and the Bible only’ to give their most earnest attention. It is this: Why don’t you keep holy the Sabbath day?..
“The command of the Almighty God stands clearly written in the Bible in these words: ‘Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shalt not do any work.’ Exodus 20:8-10…

“You will answer me, perhaps, that you do keep the Sabbath; for that you abstain from all worldly business and diligently go to church, and say your prayers, and read your Bible at home every Sunday of your lives…

“But Sunday is not the Sabbath day. Sunday is the first day of the week: the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week. Almighty God did not give a commandment that men should keep holy one day in seven; but He named His own day, and said distinctly: ‘Thou shalt keep holy the seventh day’; and He assigned a reason for choosing this day rather than any other - a reason which belongs only to the seventh day of the week, and cannot be applied to the rest. He says, ‘For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it’, Exodus 20:11, Genesis 2:1-3. Almighty God ordered that all men should rest from their labor on the seventh day, because He too had rested on that day: He did not rest on Sunday, but on Saturday. On Sunday, which is the first day of the week, He began the work of creation; He did not finish it. It was on Saturday that He ‘ended His work which he had made: and God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made.’ Genesis 2:2-3…

“Nothing can be more plain and easy to understand than all this; there is nobody who attempts to deny it. It is acknowledged by everybody that the day which Almighty God appointed to be kept holy was Saturday, not Sunday. Why do you then keep holy the Sunday and not Saturday?

“You will tell me that Saturday was the Jewish Sabbath, but that the Christian Sabbath has been changed to Sunday. Changed! But by whom? Who has the authority to change an express commandment of Almighty God? When God has spoken and said, ‘Thou shalt keep holy the seventh day’, who shall dare to say, ‘Nay, thou mayest work and do all manner of worldly business on the seventh day: but thou shalt keep holy the first day in its stead?’ This is a most important question, which I know not how you answer…

“You are a Protestant, and you profess to go by the Bible and the Bible only; and yet, in so important a manner as the observance of one day in seven as the holy day, you go against the plain letter of the Bible, and put another day in the place of that day which the Bible has commanded. The command to keep holy the seventh day is one of the Ten Commandments; you believe that the other nine are still binding. Who gave you authority to tamper with the fourth? If you are consistent with your own principles, if you really follow the Bible, and the Bible only you ought to be able to produce some portion of the New Testament in which this fourth commandment is expressly altered.” Excerpts from “Why Don’t You Keep Holy the Sabbath Day?”, pages 3-15 in The Clifton Tract, vol. 4, published by the Roman Catholic Church 1869.
Seventh Day Sabbath Truth Conclusion

Catholics are not sola scriptura adherers, so what? We have Tradition (oral teachings of Christ) as well, to support our position. Please find in the NT where we should worship on the Sabbath, once Jesus resurrected and was no longer under the old covenant?