Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

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jcwill said:
Wake up you sleeping Catholics… Jesus did NOT build His church on wimpy, vascillating Peter! He (Jesus) built His church on the statement that Peter made concerning who Jesus Christ is… "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matt 16:16)

Jesus says to Peter, “You are Peter (Petros or small stones) and On THIS ROCK (Petra: large solid bedrock) I will build my Church…” (Matt 16: 17-19)

God did not build His Church on weak, fallen, sinful human beings. He built His Church on the truth in the Word of God!.

fallen sinful human beings that includes you too, right? so how did you get the authority to say these things?

So, when did you get a hold of the Word of God? who wrote? do you know?

how do you manage to separate the faith from the one who have the faith? how do you separate St Peter and his faith?
 
Originally Posted by jcwill

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Wake up you sleeping Catholics… Jesus did NOT build His church on wimpy, vascillating Peter! He (Jesus) built His church on the statement that Peter made concerning who Jesus Christ is… "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matt 16:16)

Jesus says to Peter, “You are Peter (Petros or small stones) and On THIS ROCK (Petra: large solid bedrock) I will build my Church…” (Matt 16: 17-19)

God did not build His Church on weak, fallen, sinful human beings. He built His Church on the truth in the Word of God!.

**Holy smoly! And what bible do YOU consult?? Sheesh 😊
 
Hi Catholics,

There is a guy I saw on the BET network. His name is Doug Batchelor, president of his show called Amazing Facts. In his show he preaches the bible using an 80 inch screen television. He has made me upset. If there are Catholics right now reading this, please give your feedback. I’ve watched other religious channels before but they never criticized other religions. This show brutally criticized the Catholic Church.

Let’s begin on what Mr. Batchelor preached:

Catholic Church Attack #1

Mr. Batchelor said he read the book Crossing the Threshold of Hope written by his Holiness John Paul II. In the book it says:"Confronted with the Pope, one must make a choice. The leader of the Catholic Church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers), The Pope is considered the man on the earth who represents the Son of God, who ‘takes the place’ of the second person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity. page 3

Mr. Batchelor stated this is blasphemy. He states “The Bible states that God is Holy, Holy and reverened is His Name.” He argued that the Pope is man and since he is man he is human. Human falls short in the Glory of God. He said that the pope shouldn’t even consider himself the 2nd of the trinity…

Catholic Church Attack #2

Mr Batchelor stated “Where in the Bible states that Sunday is the holy day of obligation?” He said “A long time ago Saturday was the holy day of obligation, it was a Catholic Tradition. Constantine wanted to satisfy the Romans so he made Sunday the holy day of obligation for the Romans because that day was assigned as the Sun God.” He continued saying that because of this the Catholic Church had two days of obligation. One day was Saturday which was Catholic Tradition to be the holy day of obligation. The 2nd day which was Sunday was made to make the Romans happy. So for many years we had 2 days of obligation and soon, Catholics broke away from tradition and assigned Sunday as the holy day of obligation. Mr. Batchelor said “Check this out, this is why Catholic Tradition falls short and that is why there is no scripture to back this up.”

Catholic Church Attack #3
Mr. Batchelor said that the Catholic Church was brutal in persecuting non-believers or didn’t believe in the Catholic way. If someone was caught preaching against the Church they would capture him, tie hiim up and let him dehydrate. So once the unbeliever became thirsty they would crack glass in a small towel and soak it in water and let him swallow it so that the glass will cut off his vocal cords so he can’t preach heresy. He continued saying that the Catholic Church would bury women alive who were unbelievers and execute children right in front of the parents face. He said it was a total of 50-70 million people executed. He quoted this on Popes V2, p.334
Catholic Church Attack #1

The Pope doesn’t consider himself God, the 2nd Person of the Trinity; however, what he does say is that the Pope, just like every Priest, represents the Person of Christ in the same way that every natural Fathers (parent) represents God the Father.

Catholic Church Attack #2

All Christians, even in the Bible, were celebrating Christ’s Resurrection on Sundays, after all it was on a Sunday that Christ actually Rose Again from the death…which is why Christianity is unique among other religions, only our “leader” has risen from the dead! It’s the very heart of the Christian Faith. If any person claiming to be a Christian would deny that, then “Houston, we have a problem!” Constantine simply made it legal to be a Christian and legal to celebrate on a Sunday. Perhaps the pastor your are quoting is misunderstanding legalizing and changing…one can legalize something that was already happening (such as in this case) or one can legalize a change in a certain practice (such as a change in speed limit). Legalization and change can go hand in hand, but don’t necessarily.

Catholic Church Attack #3

Wow, never heard this one before in my entire life. Although, I have heard of non-Christians doing this sort of thing to Christians…example in Russia at the turn of last century - 20 million Orthodox Christians were martyred by the Communists, about what the Japanese did to Christians before the end of the Emperor Reign, etc. The Crusaders (of the 4th Crusade, I believe it was) blessed by the Pope for the intention of freeing the Holy Land from the Islamic Turks actually left Rome and instead of going to the Holy Land, they went to the new Roman Capitol: Constantinople and sacked it…stole Holy Relics (such as what is now called the Shroud of Turin), raped Nuns, killed children, women and men, brought prostitutes onto the alter in Church: Agia Sophia (Holy Wisdom) and had sex with them there to defile the Church/Alter, etc. etc. They did this after they were blessed by the Pope, but it does not mean that the Pope ordered it nor that the Pope condoned it! Obviously these crimes are clearly against the Catholic Faith, yet they happened one could claim with the blessing of the Pope; however, they would be mistaken. So what I’m thinking is that if these “crimes against the Church” were really handled in the manner the pastor is talking about, then that manner was not actually ordered nor condoned by the Pope/Church.

Looks like this pastor needs to get his facts straight. I’m sure that he believes he is telling the truth. The best thing to do is not to attack him for attacking us, but to pray for him!
 
Correct me if I a wrong, but the original post seemed to me to be a veiled attempt to present the accusations with out having to reveal that the original poster agreed with them. I could be totally wrong but that is the impression I got.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad
 
Unless you actually believe what is written in the Bible, where it says…

John 21:25 (KJV) - “And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.”

and…

2 Thess. 2:15 (KJV) - “Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.” (“word” is contrasted with “epistle” - in other translations they more accurately use the word “orally” rather than “word.”)
There is no passage in the Bible that supports your erroneous claim that the Bible is the only reference. Which makes sense, since the “Bible” was not a fixed canon until the Church put it together. Before that, the Churches used the Gospels and the Epistles, but they weren’t collected as one book and some Churches used Gospels/Epistles which were later rejected as being part of the Bible.
Matthew 22:29: Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Revelations 22:17-19: The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” Let anyone who hears this say, “Come.” Let anyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who desires drink freely from the water of life. And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.

We’re all Christians here. Why is there so much hatred in our communication with each other? We don’t have to all agree with everything, but we still should share our beliefs with a loving heart.
 
Matthew 22:29: Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Revelations 22:17-19: The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” Let anyone who hears this say, “Come.” Let anyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who desires drink freely from the water of life. And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.

We’re all Christians here. Why is there so much hatred in our communication with each other? We don’t have to all agree with everything, but we still should share our beliefs with a loving heart.
I believe that all the apostles agreed with and obeyed Christ. the one who did not agreed with Jesus ended up dead. (Judas)

we dont have to agree with the authority of the CC. think it again.
 
Catholic Church Attack #1

The Pope doesn’t consider himself God, the 2nd Person of the Trinity; however, what he does say is that the Pope, just like every Priest, represents the Person of Christ in the same way that every natural Fathers (parent) represents God the Father.

Catholic Church Attack #2

All Christians, even in the Bible, were celebrating Christ’s Resurrection on Sundays, after all it was on a Sunday that Christ actually Rose Again from the death…which is why Christianity is unique among other religions, only our “leader” has risen from the dead! It’s the very heart of the Christian Faith. If any person claiming to be a Christian would deny that, then “Houston, we have a problem!” Constantine simply made it legal to be a Christian and legal to celebrate on a Sunday. Perhaps the pastor your are quoting is misunderstanding legalizing and changing…one can legalize something that was already happening (such as in this case) or one can legalize a change in a certain practice (such as a change in speed limit). Legalization and change can go hand in hand, but don’t necessarily.

Catholic Church Attack #3

Wow, never heard this one before in my entire life. Although, I have heard of non-Christians doing this sort of thing to Christians…example in Russia at the turn of last century - 20 million Orthodox Christians were martyred by the Communists, about what the Japanese did to Christians before the end of the Emperor Reign, etc. The Crusaders (of the 4th Crusade, I believe it was) blessed by the Pope for the intention of freeing the Holy Land from the Islamic Turks actually left Rome and instead of going to the Holy Land, they went to the new Roman Capitol: Constantinople and sacked it…stole Holy Relics (such as what is now called the Shroud of Turin), raped Nuns, killed children, women and men, brought prostitutes onto the alter in Church: Agia Sophia (Holy Wisdom) and had sex with them there to defile the Church/Alter, etc. etc. They did this after they were blessed by the Pope, but it does not mean that the Pope ordered it nor that the Pope condoned it! Obviously these crimes are clearly against the Catholic Faith, yet they happened one could claim with the blessing of the Pope; however, they would be mistaken. So what I’m thinking is that if these “crimes against the Church” were really handled in the manner the pastor is talking about, then that manner was not actually ordered nor condoned by the Pope/Church.

Looks like this pastor needs to get his facts straight. I’m sure that he believes he is telling the truth. The best thing to do is not to attack him for attacking us, but to pray for him!
To address point #2, when speaking about the end times Jesus, in Matthew 24:20, said: “But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:” which indicates that in the “future”, the Sabbath would still be in observance. In Acts 13:42, Luke writes: And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Additionally in Acts 17:2, “And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures…” (he was talking about Gentiles here…not Jews).

Something important to note is that the first time there’s a reference to the disciples gathering on the first day of the week, it was out of fear for their lives…hardly a show of worship; John 20:19: Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

The fact that Jesus rose on Sunday does not authorize men to change God’s Law because His law is perfect and didn’t need changing. James 1:25: But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. Luke 16:17: And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Nothing any of us say to circumvent the God’s Law holds water…it was written in stone for a reason. It makes no sense for us to forget the only commandment that begins with the word “Remember…”. And when you look at it closely, it’s the only commandment that identifies God as the Creator of the heavens and the earth - his signature on the entire body of work. If you remove that commandment and only obey the others, you won’t know who you’re really worshiping. But when you consider that His commandment against idolatry was removed in Catholic theology, it shows that when men try to supplant God’s Law, it only leads to mass confusion. Read Ezekiel 8 for more truth on that…

Blessings…
 
Oh my! one more of those.

the CC can take any persecution, why? because we know Who made her. Jesus said: the gates of hell will not prevail against her. that is beautifull. we need not be afraid, the Lord is with us until the end.

all we have to do is say: Father forgive them, they do not know what they do.
Jesus’ true church is the one that loves him and keeps his commandments (John 14:15)…not any that create their own laws. It’s the one we’ll all join in the end; I hope to see you there.
 
Correct me if I a wrong, but the original post seemed to me to be a veiled attempt to present the accusations with out having to reveal that the original poster agreed with them. I could be totally wrong but that is the impression I got.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad
Kansas Dad,

Perhaps that is true…but then this is the Non-Catholic Religion section. If you don’t want to hear/see Non-Catholic opinion, attacks, etc., I’d stick to another Forum.

In Christ,

A Fellow Catholic,
Christy
 
Jesus’ true church is the one that loves him and keeps his commandments (John 14:15)…not any that create their own laws. It’s th e one we’ll all join in the end; I hope to see you there.
a
yes the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. do you know any other who carries this name? i dont think so.
 
Jesus’ true church is the one that loves him and keeps his commandments (John 14:15)…not any that create their own laws. It’s the one we’ll all join in the end; I hope to see you there.
I’ve already joined the Church that is His Church. If you received a valid baptism, then you have already joined too, even if you are not presently in full union with it. I do sincerely hope to see you there eventually as well.

Peace,
-Robert
 
Kansas Dad,

Perhaps that is true…but then this is the Non-Catholic Religion section. If you don’t want to hear/see Non-Catholic opinion, attacks, etc., I’d stick to another Forum.

In Christ,

A Fellow Catholic,
Christy
Oh I understand fully which forum I am posting in. And I have no problem with different opinions being expressed. This just seemed deceptive in nature, and I was pointing out the deception as I saw it. My perception could be completely wrong for it is based on assumption from the nature of his writing. If I am wrong I would hope the original poster would set the record straight. If on the other hand I am correct and these are the beliefs shared by the original poster I would hope he would be man enough to acknowledge his true beliefs and not hide it in a form of a question and quote.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad
 
Doug Batchelor preaches and teaches from the Bible, which is the only reference of Scripture any Christian should need.
What other “Scripture” is there besides the books of the Old and New Testament that make up the Bible.
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BibleTruth:
He reads from the same Scriptures that Jesus partially taught from (i.e. the Old Testament) along with the New Testament. He openly admits to being a Seventh-day Adventist (he’s the pastor of an SDA church in Sacramento, CA) although his Amazing Facts ministry is not associated with any religious denomination.
But he teaches from the SDA perspective… a protestant denomination that teaches the Pope is the anti-Christ and that the Catholic Church is the “Whore of Babylon.” How ecumenical. :rolleyes:
BT:
It’s understandable that anyone feeling they’re under attack will naturally be on the defensive and respond accordingly. From any of his presentations I’ve heard, he clearly states that he’s not attacking anyone in particular as someone here has mentioned. With that said, however, it’s important to note that he only presents what’s written in the Bible. In addition to showing where the Catholic church is represented in prophecy (in Revelations 13:1-10), he also points to the United States in the same chapter (vs. 11-18) although he confirms his patriotism to this country.
He attacks my faith. And he does so insincerely, in a manner that is demonstrably false. He does not simply “present what’s written in the bible.” He interprets it to support his own demonstrably false conclusions about the Catholic Church.
BT:
When the mark of the beast (which, according to the Bible is an issue of worship) is offered, who will you choose to obey…God or His adversary?
I will choose God and His Church, not Doug Batchelor and his cable television show.

Peace,
-Robert
 
Here is a link to a sermon by Doug Batchelor.

The Last Little Big Horn

amazingfacts.org/Television/EverlastingGospel/tabid/78/Default.aspx

When I go to buy a product I like to know all I can. If I do that for a product, personally I most certainly do it for my foundational belief.

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” (Acts 17:11)

God bless,
Adam
 
So, SDAs should utterly ignore all the writings of Ellen White?
No, I don’t believe SDAs should ignore Ellen White. My point is that the Bible should be our ultimate source. It’s good to get the view point of others, but we should test the validity and compare them with Scripture. 1 Thessalonians 5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

As an SDA, I don’t start any biblical discussion with, “Well Ellen White says…” although I respect her work. It’s what the Bible says, first, foremost and last.
 
Oh I understand fully which forum I am posting in. And I have no problem with different opinions being expressed. This just seemed deceptive in nature, and I was pointing out the deception as I saw it. My perception could be completely wrong for it is based on assumption from the nature of his writing. If I am wrong I would hope the original poster would set the record straight. If on the other hand I am correct and these are the beliefs shared by the original poster I would hope he would be man enough to acknowledge his true beliefs and not hide it in a form of a question and quote.

God Bless,
Kansas Dad
Hi Kansas Dad,

I find it best to always assume innocence.

Let’s say your are correct in that the person who started this thread agrees with this Doug guy…perhaps he/she felt that they needed the support of this guy’s opinion to actually get the answers they are looking for…they may have a higher opinion of this Doug guy than they have of themself and thought that they needed to make it come from someone “above” them so to speak…

Am I making sense? For some reason I feel this is perfectly clear in my head and yet, I’m not doing so hot in getting down in writing.
I can’t function in this heat and smoke!

Be Blessed!
Christy

P.S. Make these stupid fires in CA end…we can’t live in this smoke anymore!!! Too hard to breath especially with the temperature being 110 degrees! Lord, please have mercy on us! Please! Pretty Please! With a gigantic cherry on top?!
 
No, I don’t believe SDAs should ignore Ellen White. My point is that the Bible should be our ultimate source. It’s good to get the view point of others, but we should test the validity and compare them with Scripture. 1 Thessalonians 5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

As an SDA, I don’t start any biblical discussion with, “Well Ellen White says…” although I respect her work. It’s what the Bible says, first, foremost and last.
who is the one to decide the true enterpretation of the SS using your method of test and validity?

who is going to listen to you enterpretation?

how do you do it? do you tell a baptist, no your enterpretation is wrong? or do you tell assemblies of God no yours is wrong.

which of you decide what Jesus realy meant by His words?

i am interested to know.
 
No, I don’t believe SDAs should ignore Ellen White. My point is that the Bible should be our ultimate source. It’s good to get the view point of others, but we should test the validity and compare them with Scripture. 1 Thessalonians 5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

As an SDA, I don’t start any biblical discussion with, “Well Ellen White says…” although I respect her work. It’s what the Bible says, first, foremost and last.
Interestingly enough, I also read the Bible but I do not agree with your personal interpretation of the Bible. You may be able to use the Bible to defend your beliefs but so can I. So, how do we solve this problem of difference in interpretation according to the Bible?
 
What other “Scripture” is there besides the books of the Old and New Testament that make up the Bible.

But he teaches from the SDA perspective… a protestant denomination that teaches the Pope is the anti-Christ and that the Catholic Church is the “Whore of Babylon.” How ecumenical. :rolleyes:

He attacks my faith. And he does so insincerely, in a manner that is demonstrably false. He does not simply “present what’s written in the bible.” He interprets it to support his own demonstrably false conclusions about the Catholic Church.

I will choose God and His Church, not Doug Batchelor and his cable television show.

Peace,
-Robert
How much of him have you actually heard? He talks about the papacy being the first beast power in Revelations (and Daniel) because of what’s written and what’s taken place in our history…not because of his religion. I have some of it here in the New Living Translation for us to look together with my comments in parenthesis:

Revelations 13:1-7:

vs 1: Then I saw a beast rising up out of the sea. (this indicates rising up from an area densely populated) It had seven heads and ten horns, with ten crowns on its horns. (refer to Revelations 17:9, where it references the seven heads as the seven hills where the “woman” rules; Rome is considered “The City on Seven Hills”; the ten crowns indicate the ten kingdoms, or ten horns as referred to in Daniel 7, that pagan Rome, “the great prostitute” was divided into at the end of the Caesars reign in 476 A.D.) And written on each head were names that blasphemed God. (three of the heads/horns-the Heruli, Vandals and Ostrogoths-refused to accept the Catholic faith, so they were done away with, ending in 538 A.D…another significant year - see Daniel 7:20 for prophecy on that).

vs 2: This beast looked like a leopard, but it had the feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion! And the dragon gave the beast his own power and throne and great authority.* (it was an unusual “beast”, unlike any other that had come before it - not much else I can really add there, except that we know who the dragon is and it’s the dragon that gave this beast its authority)
*
vs 3: I saw that one of the heads of the beast seemed wounded beyond recovery—but the fatal wound was healed!* (in short, 1798 A.D., when the French invaded Rome and took the Pope captive, is when the “beast” was wounded. The “healing” came in July 1801 with the issuing of the Concordat, with the support of Napoleon, and again on February 11, 1929 with a treaty signed by Mussolini and Cardinal Gasparri)*. The whole world marveled at this miracle and gave allegiance to the beast. (self-explanatory)

vs 4: They worshiped the dragon for giving the beast such power, and they also worshiped the beast. “Who is as great as the beast?” they exclaimed. “Who is able to fight against him?” (self-explanatory, although I believe that the Catholic flock sincerely believe they’re worshiping Christ; just know that the devil is a liar and his intent is to deceive anyone who will fall for his lies - it started when he convinced Eve that she would “not surely die”)

vs 5: Then the beast was allowed to speak great blasphemies against God (read/re-read Pope Gregory VII “Dictates of Hildebrand” for a sample of the “great blasphemies”.) And he was given authority to do whatever he wanted for forty-two months. (in biblical prophecy, one day is equal to a year and a year was measured in 360 days - see Ezekiel 4:6 & Numbers 14:34 for insight to the day/year understanding - in either case, 42 months=1260 days=1260 years…in other words, 538 A.D. through 1798 A.D.)

vs 6: And he spoke terrible words of blasphemy against God, slandering his name and his dwelling—that is, those who dwell in heaven.* (see Lucius Ferraris, “Papa”, article 2 for more on this one)*

vs 7: And the beast was allowed to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And he was given authority to rule over every tribe and people and language and nation.* (quite simply, the Inquisition)*

No other influential power fits these (and so many other) prophecies like the Catholic (“universal”) church. I’m not suggesting that you or any other Catholic believer is a bad person…I’m just suggesting that you look at Scripture at bit more closely and chose your faith based on truth and not what you may have possibly been brought up to believe. We are all seeking a relationship with Christ, but we have to pay attention to His word and His teachings as given to us in the Bible.

“And all the people who belong to this world worshiped the beast. They are the ones whose names were not written in the Book of Life before the world was made—the Book that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.” Revelations 13:8-9.

I pray God blesses all of our understanding of His word. Amen.
 
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