Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

[BibleTruth]

Yes, I am Catholic and my beliefs are that of the Catholic Church with the Pope as the Vicar of Christ.

I would be interested to know where you got your definitions from.

From this dictionary Catholic means

Main Entry: cath·o·lic
Pronunciation: \ˈkath-lik, ˈka-thə-\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English catholik, from Middle French & LateLatin; Middle French catholique, from Late Latin catholicus, from Greek katholikos universal, general, from katholou in general, from kata by + holos whole — more at cata-, safe
Date: 14th century
1 aoften capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the church universal boften capitalized : of, relating to, or forming the ancient undivided Christian church or a church claiming historical continuity from it ccapitalized : roman catholic
2: comprehensive, universal; especially : broad in sympathies, tastes, or interests

No I don’t know about all the quotes you used but I know that a lot of people like to throw quotes around with out looking at them in context of the rest of the paragraph or work. Often time the quotes are taken out of context, so throwing quotes around is useless without the context.

If you have looked at the Catechism than you would have noticed all the quotes from Scripture that are in it. Again this gets down to personal interpretations of Scripture. How do KNOW that your interpretation is right and mine is wrong. Obviously I’m going to disagree with you so how do we solve that problem?

Again, I’m no linguist (I used dictionary.com, so maybe not as reliable a source as Merriam-Webster) but in using the same dictionary as you used above:

Main Entry: vic·ar
Pronunciation: \ˈvi-kər\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin vicarius, from vicarius vicarious
Date: 14th century

1: one serving as a substitute or agent; specifically : an administrative deputy
2: an ecclesiastical agent: as a: a Church of England incumbent receiving a stipend but not the tithes of a parish b: a member of the Episcopal clergy or laity who has charge of a mission or chapel c: a member of the clergy who exercises a broad pastoral responsibility as the representative of a prelate
— vic·ar·ship Listen to the pronunciation of vicarship -ˌship\ noun

Main Entry: agent
Pronunciation: \ˈā-jənt\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Medieval Latin agent-, agens, from Latin, present participle of agere to drive, lead, act, do; akin to Old Norse aka to travel in a vehicle, Greek agein to drive, lead
Date: 15th century

1: one that acts or exerts power
2 a: something that produces or is capable of producing an effect : an active or efficient cause b: a chemically, physically, or biologically active principle
3: a means or instrument by which a guiding intelligence achieves a result
4: one who is authorized to act for or in the place of another: as a: a representative, emissary, or official of a government b: one engaged in undercover activities (as espionage) : spy c: a business representative (as of an athlete or entertainer)
5: a computer application designed to automate certain tasks (as gathering information online)

Personally, I don’t need an agent or substitute here on earth to have a relationship with God. My relationship with Him comes directly through Christ.

John 5:23: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

1 John 2:23: Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

If you don’t respond to anything else, please address this one:

Matthew 23:8-13 (NLT): “Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters. And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’ for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. And don’t let anyone call you ‘Teacher,’ for you have only one teacher, the Messiah. The greatest among you must be a servant. But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either."

Please note that Jesus was addressing religious leaders when he gave that last instruction. This needs no interpretation, just careful study and a humble heart that’s willing to accept the truth. How do you reconcile this with the teachings of your religion?

Like you said, you’re not going to agree with me and that’s up to me to make happen. I present what’s written in Scripture in an effort to share the truth which is what I’ve been commissioned to do by Christ (Matthew 28:19-20). The convicting of hearts is the work of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 4:30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Matthew 12:32: And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Let me just ask this: Why are you a Catholic?

 

[BibleTruth]

Yup. Now even if you think that it wasn’t “Catholics”, it was still put together by a Church that enjoys unbroken doctrinal and historic continuity with the Catholic Church.

For me, the canon was the deal breaker. Once the lightbulb went on that the Church gave us the Bible (as an Orthodox friend tossed off in conversation one day), then I had to deal with the fact that “my” Word of God had arisen in a living organism: that it was not a free-standing self-interpreting entity.

When did the doctrine that Scripture interprets itself arise? I understand that, hermeneutically, we balance Scripture with Scripture – and indeed, the whole patristic typological method is the prototypical example of that thinking – but the declaration that Scripture interprets itself? Even as a Protestant, I never heard that.

Something of important note is that although Catholics may have done all that you said (I’ll just take your word for it since I haven’t studied the whole history of it and because the point isn’t who put it together, but that it exists), in the Dark Ages they kept Bibles chained to the churches because they didn’t want anyone to learn the full truth on their own. Since the Dark Ages, knowledge of the truth has thankfully increased so we can learn the truth for ourselves and not what any man dictates as “truth”. With that said, the lies have been embedded into the minds of many and have been passed down from generation to generation.

I praise the Lord that the Bible was put together so we can all have access to the truth. I just pray now that all who claim the title “Christian” learn to follow Christ in that very truth.

John 8:32: “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” Free from the bondage of what you’ve been taught to believe.

 

[mercygate]

Something of important note is that although Catholics may have done all that you said (I’ll just take your word for it since I haven’t studied the whole history of it and because the point isn’t who put it together, but that it exists),

I believe that it IS important who put it together because it couldn’t put itself together; it could not exist without the authority that put it together.

in the Dark Ages they kept Bibles chained to the churches because they didn’t want anyone to learn the full truth on their own.

It was not because they “did not want anyone to learn the full truth on their own.” First of all, almost nobody could read except clerics. The very work “ink” comes from the Italian “inchiostro” = “in cloister”. One pulpit bible cost the lives of at least 250 sheep. Iit took about a year for scribes to hand-copy the text. The value in today’s dollars would be around $250,000. Those Bibles were chained because they were precious and needed to stay put to be used in worship.

When I was a student at Oxford, the catalog in the Bodleian Library was hand written in huge leather-bound books. They were chained to the desk. It was not because the Bodley didn’t want people to read the catalogs.

Since the Dark Ages, knowledge of the truth has thankfully increased so we can learn the truth for ourselves and not what any man dictates as “truth”. With that said, the lies have been embedded into the minds of many and have been passed down from generation to generation.

Well one of the big “lies” is that those ages were “dark.” Another is that the Church chained Bibles so that people could not read them.

I praise the Lord that the Bible was put together so we can all have access to the truth. I just pray now that all who claim the title “Christian” learn to follow Christ in that very truth.

John 8:32: “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” Free from the bondage of what you’ve been taught to believe.

Ditto.

 

[BibleTruth]

I believe that it IS important who put it together because it couldn’t put itself together; it could not exist without the authority that put it together. It was not because they “did not want anyone to learn the full truth on their own.” First of all, almost nobody could read except clerics. The very work “ink” comes from the Italian “inchiostro” = “in cloister”. One pulpit bible cost the lives of at least 250 sheep. Iit took about a year for scribes to hand-copy the text. The value in today’s dollars would be around $250,000. Those Bibles were chained because they were precious and needed to stay put to be used in worship.

When I was a student at Oxford, the catalog in the Bodleian Library was hand written in huge leather-bound books. They were chained to the desk. It was not because the Bodley didn’t want people to read the catalogs.

Well one of the big “lies” is that those ages were “dark.” Another is that the Church chained Bibles so that people could not read them.

Ditto.

I appreciate your responses and until I complete my research on all of the reasons this was done, I’ll refrain from further comment specific to the subject of why Bibles were chained to the churches. I can accept the value issue but would like to look into it further and I thank you for that insight.

Since you seem knowledgeable in your faith, I’d like to know if you feel it is important for us to obey God’s commands as presented in the Bible. If so…why? If not…why not?

 

[mercygate]

I appreciate your responses and until I complete my research on all of the reasons this was done, I’ll refrain from further comment specific to the subject of why Bibles were chained to the churches. I can accept the value issue but would like to look into it further and I thank you for that insight.

Since you seem knowledgeable in your faith, I’d like to know if you feel it is important for us to obey God’s commands as presented in the Bible. If so…why? If not…why not?

Catholics view everything through the lens of the Person of Jesus Christ. “I give you a new Commandment” – this does not abrogate the divine and natural moral law but the “new and everlasting covenant” means living the law in Him.

 

[Kansasdad]

Hi Kansas Dad,

I find it best to always assume innocence.

Let’s say your are correct in that the person who started this thread agrees with this Doug guy…perhaps he/she felt that they needed the support of this guy’s opinion to actually get the answers they are looking for…they may have a higher opinion of this Doug guy than they have of themself and thought that they needed to make it come from someone “above” them so to speak…

Am I making sense? For some reason I feel this is perfectly clear in my head and yet, I’m not doing so hot in getting down in writing.
I can’t function in this heat and smoke!

Be Blessed!
Christy

P.S. Make these stupid fires in CA end…we can’t live in this smoke anymore!!! Too hard to breath especially with the temperature being 110 degrees! Lord, please have mercy on us! Please! Pretty Please! With a gigantic cherry on top?!

Actually you posted your thoughts very well and I will join you in your prayer about the fires in Cal.

God Bless,
K.D.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

The de facto reality is that Ellen White’s interpretations on Holy Scripture are considered inspired by SDAs–if they claim any difference in inspiration or authority, its a difference that makes no difference–ie, no difference at all (Talmudic principle).

Its why many fundamentalists attempt to write SDAs out of Chrisitianity entirely–something we Catholics do not do–we do consider, for the most part, SDA to be Christian in that they hold to the doctrines of the Trinity and baptize with a valid Trinitarian formula.

 

[BibleTruth]

Catholics view everything through the lens of the Person of Jesus Christ. “I give you a new Commandment” – this does not abrogate the divine and natural moral law but the “new and everlasting covenant” means living the law in Him.

This “new commandment” (John 13:34) is all about exercising our free will to choose to love. In fulfilling that commandment, we show our love for God by obeying the first four commandments and love for others in obeying the last six. I agree that Jesus lives in us through the power and guidance of the Holy Spirit, but in no way should that preclude us from keeping his commandments; he states this clearly in John 14:15: “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” The Holy Spirit living in us produces the fruits mentioned in Galatians 5:22; these fruits are the evidence of that relationship. By no means am I suggesting that we’re saved by just obeying God’s laws (even an Atheist can do that), but when we love him, we naturally choose to obey them.

I realize that several believers use the fact that we’re saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) as a reason to say that we’re no longer “under the Law”, but if Jesus wasn’t referring to the Ten Commandments what, in your understanding, was he referring to in John 14:15?

 

[Christy74]

Actually you posted your thoughts very well and I will join you in your prayer about the fires in Cal.

God Bless,
K.D.

Thanks! I walked out of the house this morning and my eyes just started burning and getting all watery from the smoke.

 

[BibleTruth]

The de facto reality is that Ellen White’s interpretations on Holy Scripture are considered inspired by SDAs–if they claim any difference in inspiration or authority, its a difference that makes no difference–ie, no difference at all (Talmudic principle).

Its why many fundamentalists attempt to write SDAs out of Chrisitianity entirely–something we Catholics do not do–we do consider, for the most part, SDA to be Christian in that they hold to the doctrines of the Trinity and baptize with a valid Trinitarian formula.

I believe Ellen White was inspired by God to help direct people to the truth in the end times; she referred to herself as the “lesser light”. Every morning I read my daily devotional from a book that’s a compilation of her writings.

With that said, however, I don’t base my theology on her writings…I base them on the Holy Scriptures which is what she based her writing on (one test of any prophet is that their work not conflict with God’s word). That’s no knock on her work whatsoever…it’s quite helpful and provides solid guidance, particularly in areas of health, wellbeing and overall spirituality. But in the end, I put my faith in God’s word.

2 Timothy 3:16-17: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”

 

[Kansasdad]

If my memory serves me right, and it may not, haven’t the scriptures you are referring to been changed significantly. Therefore what you are calling scripture is not the same as what most Christians call scripture. What version of the Bible do you call scripture?

 

[BibleTruth]

If my memory serves me right, and it may not, haven’t the scriptures you are referring to been changed significantly. Therefore what you are calling scripture is not the same as what most Christians call scripture. What version of the Bible do you call scripture?

I generally read and study from the New Living Translation but I still compare it to other translations when necessary for a better understanding. For further clarification I research the Hebrew or Greek meaning of particular words. Either way, it’s still the same Bible.

The only change I’m aware of is the change by Catholics to the Ten Commandments to remove the second commandment against idolatry and splitting the tenth commandment about coveting into two separate ones so there’d still be ten. I don’t believe it was right for humans to change God’s law though because…

Luke 16:17 (King James Version): But that doesn’t mean that the law has lost its force. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest point of God’s law to be overturned.

 

[Kansasdad]

I generally read and study from the New Living Translation but I still compare it to other translations when necessary for a better understanding. For further clarification I research the Hebrew or Greek meaning of particular words. Either way, it’s still the same Bible.

The only change I’m aware of is the change by Catholics to the Ten Commandments to remove the second commandment against idolatry and splitting the tenth commandment about coveting into two separate ones so there’d still be ten. I don’t believe it was right for humans to change God’s law though because…

Luke 16:17 (King James Version): But that doesn’t mean that the law has lost its force. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest point of God’s law to be overturned.

As I said I could be wrong, I thought the SDA had it’s own version of the Bible that had significant differences. I am most likely getting the SDA confused with a different group. MY mistake and I apologize. Maybe I am thinking of the LDS? Now I am just confusing myself.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

I believe Ellen White was inspired by God to help direct people to the truth in the end times; she referred to herself as the “lesser light”. Every morning I read my daily devotional from a book that’s a compilation of her writings…

With that said, however, I don’t base my theology on her writings…I base them on the Holy Scriptures which is what she based her writing on…(one test of any prophet is that their work not conflict with God’s…

If there had not been an Ellen White coming out from the aftermath of the failed Millerite movement, there would be no SDA–you would be something else.

To speak of SDA w/out White is to speak of Mormonism w/out Smith or Scientology w/out Hubbard–they did not exist in any form before their respective revelations.

“A difference that makes no difference is no difference”–Mr Spock, cribbing from Talmud

 

[Kansasdad]

Oh and by the way, the ten commandments are not listed 1 through 10 anywhere in the Bible So your assertion that by listing them as the Catholic Church does some how changes the Bible is really quite silly. I could just as easily take the same words of the Bible and make 12 commandments out of them. Further did you know there are two accounts of the event with the commandments recorded in scripture and the two accountings are not exactly the same.

God Bless,
K.D.

 

[Sabda]

Oh and by the way, the ten commandments are not listed 1 through 10 anywhere in the Bible So your assertion that by listing them as the Catholic Church does some how changes the Bible is really quite silly. I could just as easily take the same words of the Bible and make 12 commandments out of them. Further did you know there are two accounts of the event with the commandments recorded in scripture and the two accountings are not exactly the same.

God Bless,
K.D.

One thing many don’t know or realize is the fact that the Church listed the Ten Commandments by sin. The sins at the beginning of the list that dealt with idolatry and disrespecting God were combined. The last two sins were separated because they were not the same sin. Coveting your neighbors wife has to do with the sin of lust. Coveting your neighbors goods has to do with the sin of greed. Two completely different things. Goods are not people and your neighbors wife is not property. The Church clearly recognized this fact.

 

[MarysRoses]

2 Timothy 3:16-17: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”

Profitable yes. But because something is profitable, it does not follow that it is sufficient or exclusive for instruction and correction.

The bible is inspired but it does not stand alone. Jesus did not pass out books (The bible as you have it didn’t exist then), He founded His Church. The Word of God isn’t printed on paper. He is a person, Jesus. I sometimes think protestants forget this important distinction.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Another thing that I think gets forgotten is that Jesus keeps his promises. He didn’t promise us a book. He promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church. Not a book, a living body, His living Body. He founded a Church (not denominations), He gave us Himself as nourishment (Eucharist),

John 6:63-56

53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

He gave the apostles the power to forgive sins and and continue His ministry in His name

21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Jesus keeps his promises. His Church is still here and teaching what He taught.

How did St. Paul refer to the Church?

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Hm… I seem to remember many sermons as a protestant, where the minister would hold up a bible, and proclaim it the pillar and ground of truth.

The Bible itself says the CHURCH is the pillar and ground of truth.

The Bible says JESUS Is the Word of God.

Thats the problem with taking scripture out of its proper context.

Scripture does not define itself. (where is the inspired list of books that ought to be in it?) It didn’t’ compile itself out of the hundreds of possible manuscripts that could have been included.

Scripture does not interpret itself. If it did, there would not be millions of pages of bible commentary with thousands of different opinions.

Scripture is at home in the Church. That is where it has been compiled, protected and transmitted through the centuries. That is where scripture has been proclaimed ( did you know that if you went to mass every day for 3 years, you would hear about 90% of the bible read aloud?) since long before the existence of a protestant.

I’m sure many bibles were chained to lecterns, that was very common. The phone company does not chain phone books to pay phones to keep people from using them. It chains them there so that they will be available for EVERYONE to use them.

Similar reasoning. As someone posted, the resources invested in creating and distributing books before printing existed were enormous. Millions of monks over the centuries spent their entire lives copying the scriptures. The hide of a sheep yielded only a few pages of precious parchment. Even so, every parish had a bible so that it could be read at mass and the Gospel proclaimed.
That doesn’t sound like denigrating scripture to me. If the Church had truly wanted to do away with scripture, it could simply have put its resources elsewhere. If the Church had wanted to “change” scripture as you charge we “changed” the 10 commandments, it could have done so and how would you know?
What 1st century manuscript of the NT exists?

Reliance on printed scriptures, and everyone having a bible to read, didn’t happen until long after mass printing of bibles AND a more literate society developed. It seems to me if it had been essential to Christian faith that everyone have a bible and read it for themselves … Wouldn’t God have arranged for the invention of printing a little sooner? On the other hand, doesn’t it make sense that Jesus founded his Church and left us everything we that we needed (The Apostles and their successors and the Holy Spirit). I believe Jesus kept his promises.

MarysRoses

 

[wisdomseeker]

I appreciate your responses and until I complete my research on all of the reasons this was done, I’ll refrain from further comment specific to the subject of why Bibles were chained to the churches. I can accept the value issue but would like to look into it further and I thank you for that insight.

Since you seem knowledgeable in your faith, I’d like to know if you feel it is important for us to obey God’s commands as presented in the Bible. If so…why? If not…why not?

As catholics we do encourage people to study to research history and our faith. follow the true history, dont read from the catholics haters you only become one of them

yes it is important for us catholics to obey God. that is why we dont ignore His Church, we obey her. remember what Jesus said? He never said to the apostles obey my Bible. No, He said to the apostles whoever hears you hears me and my Father. now that is authority given to man by Jesus. the Bible does not given any one authority, Jesus does. and He already did. i say this very humbly, if Jesus has already given this authority to a few man and these men were to pass on that authority to others, where do you think this authority is now?

hope you find the Truth.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I believe Ellen White was inspired by God to help direct people to the truth in the end times; she referred to herself as the “lesser light”. Every morning I read my daily devotional from a book that’s a compilation of her writings.

With that said, however, I don’t base my theology on her writings…I base them on the Holy Scriptures which is what she based her writing on (one test of any prophet is that their work not conflict with God’s word). That’s no knock on her work whatsoever…it’s quite helpful and provides solid guidance, particularly in areas of health, wellbeing and overall spirituality. But in the end, I put my faith in God’s word.

2 Timothy 3:16-17: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”

that is funny. you accept this woman reverently and you do not accept the Mother of our Lord. very interesting.

you like to quote Scriptures a lot. is almost like you have been programmed. because you keep quoting them and you dont quite understand what you are quoting.

sorry, but i had to be honest.

 

[Sabda]

Personally, I don’t need an agent or substitute here on earth to have a relationship with God. My relationship with Him comes directly through Christ.

If you don’t respond to anything else, please address this one:

Matthew 23:8-13 (NLT): “Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters. And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’ for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. And don’t let anyone call you ‘Teacher,’ for you have only one teacher, the Messiah. The greatest among you must be a servant. But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either."

Please note that Jesus was addressing religious leaders when he gave that last instruction. This needs no interpretation, just careful study and a humble heart that’s willing to accept the truth. How do you reconcile this with the teachings of your religion?

Like you said, you’re not going to agree with me and that’s up to me to make happen. I present what’s written in Scripture in an effort to share the truth which is what I’ve been commissioned to do by Christ (Matthew 28:19-20). The convicting of hearts is the work of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 4:30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Matthew 12:32: And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Let me just ask this: Why are you a Catholic?

I’m Catholic because I love Jesus Christ and want to follow were he leads and the Church is were he has lead me. I am like the Ethiopian in Acts 8:31. I am also the ignorant and unstable person that St. Peter was addressing in his second letter in 2 Peter 3:16-17. I know full well that if I went by the Bible alone I would get confused. Who better to teach me than the Church which has been around since the apostles. The Church which is so intimately connected to Jesus himself.

I’m sure you do honestly feel like you don’t need a leader but the fact is we all need someone that we can touch, feel, see, and hear to guide us. A group of people work best when they have a visible leader. God made us that way. Why do you think he referred to us as a flock, his sheep, so often? Why did he give us Abraham, Moses, King David, Isaac, and himself in the form of Jesus? Because he understands us better than we understand ourselves. He knows without a earthly leader we are lost. We are like sheep. Sheep will not follow a leader they can not see, they need someone that they can see who will guide them. Otherwise they are lost and easy prey for the wolves.

Are you not aware that St. Paul, referred to himself as our father and teacher? The article below does an excellent job of addressing the problems you have with that Scripture verse.

Call No Man Father?