Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

[wisdomseeker]

That name was given and taken on by men…not God.

who do you think wrote the Book you so worship? could have been men and not God?

Any church of God should use Scripture to prove any ecclesiastical point they dare to make and will teach the keeping His commandments. Just ask yourself, does your church fit that criteria?

dont worry about. while you prove Scriptures, we live the Word of God with His Church.

In fact, according to Revelations 12:17, the dragon (the devil) “is wroth with at with the woman” (God’s true church as mentioned in verse 1) and that church is the one that “keeps God’s commandments and maintain their testimony for Jesus”. You can’t keep God’s commandments by changing them to fit your desires.

that is your enterpretation.

Revelation 19:10: “Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said, “No, don’t worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers and sisters who testify about their faith in Jesus. Worship only God. For the essence of prophecy is to give a clear witness for Jesus.”

???

Here are some interesting quotes from the Catholic church:

• “The supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires (…) complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself.” -Leo VIII, «On the Chief Duties of Christians as Citizens», Encyclical letter, 1890.
• “The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.” Catholic National July 1895.
• “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty” …Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894,
• “Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions (infernorum).” -Lucius Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, ‘Papa II’, p.26)

I say this with love, but how is this not blasphemy against the Almighty who created all of us? What are you not seeing here?

is it not with these words that the pharasee condemn Jesus?

that is the Power of Jesus in His Church. no other can claim such.

 

[mercygate]

I’m Catholic because I love Jesus Christ and want to follow were he leads and the Church is were he has lead me. I am like the Ethiopian in Acts 8:31. I am also the ignorant and unstable person that St. Peter was addressing in his second letter in 2 Peter 3:16-17. I know full well that if I went by the Bible alone I would get confused. Who better to teach me than the Church which has been around since the apostles. The Church which is so intimately connected to Jesus himself.

I’m sure you do honestly feel like you don’t need a leader but the fact is we all need someone that we can touch, feel, see, and hear to guide us. A group of people work best when they have a visible leader. God made us that way. Why do you think he referred to us as a flock, his sheep, so often? Why did he give us Abraham, Moses, King David, Isaac, and himself in the form of Jesus? Because he understands us better than we understand ourselves. He knows without a earthly leader we are lost. We are like sheep. Sheep will not follow a leader they can not see, they need someone that they can see who will guide them. Otherwise they are lost and easy prey for the wolves.

Are you not aware that St. Paul, referred to himself as our father and teacher? The article below does an excellent job of addressing the problems you have with that Scripture verse.

Call No Man Father?

Given Paul’s use of the term father, and John’s address to the “Fathers” in his epistle and given ethat the Great Commission is to go out and TEACH, it’s kind of hard to read the “call no man father / call no man teacher” passage as if it were a simple instruction. Not only that but Jesus, Himself, uses the term “fathers” some 18 times in the New Testament.

The fatherhood of a pastor is subisidiary from the fatherood of God, and refers to his “fathering” spiritual children in the faith. Even as a Protestant, I recognized that. The flat, literalistic reading of “call no man father,” irrespective of the full NT context, reminds me of some of the stuff my sixth graders come up with.

Two years ago, when I held up a copy of the *Nova Vulgata *translation of the Bible, and told the class that this was the official Bible of the Catholic Church, one kid’s eyeballs nearly popped out of his head on stalks.

“It IS???” he gasped.

I had to explain to him what “this” meant. It’s funny coming from a sixth grader.

 

[ufamtobie]

Hi Catholics,

There is a guy I saw on the BET network. His name is Doug Batchelor, president of his show called Amazing Facts. In his show he preaches the bible using an 80 inch screen television. He has made me upset. If there are Catholics right now reading this, please give your feedback. I’ve watched other religious channels before but they never criticized other religions. This show brutally criticized the Catholic Church.

Let’s begin on what Mr. Batchelor preached:

Catholic Church Attack #1

Mr. Batchelor said he read the book Crossing the Threshold of Hope written by his Holiness John Paul II. In the book it says:"Confronted with the Pope, one must make a choice. The leader of the Catholic Church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers), The Pope is considered the man on the earth who represents the Son of God, who ‘takes the place’ of the second person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity. page 3

Mr. Batchelor stated this is blasphemy. He states “The Bible states that God is Holy, Holy and reverened is His Name.” He argued that the Pope is man and since he is man he is human. Human falls short in the Glory of God. He said that the pope shouldn’t even consider himself the 2nd of the trinity…

Catholic Church Attack #2

Mr Batchelor stated “Where in the Bible states that Sunday is the holy day of obligation?” He said “A long time ago Saturday was the holy day of obligation, it was a Catholic Tradition. Constantine wanted to satisfy the Romans so he made Sunday the holy day of obligation for the Romans because that day was assigned as the Sun God.” He continued saying that because of this the Catholic Church had two days of obligation. One day was Saturday which was Catholic Tradition to be the holy day of obligation. The 2nd day which was Sunday was made to make the Romans happy. So for many years we had 2 days of obligation and soon, Catholics broke away from tradition and assigned Sunday as the holy day of obligation. Mr. Batchelor said “Check this out, this is why Catholic Tradition falls short and that is why there is no scripture to back this up.”

Catholic Church Attack #3
Mr. Batchelor said that the Catholic Church was brutal in persecuting non-believers or didn’t believe in the Catholic way. If someone was caught preaching against the Church they would capture him, tie hiim up and let him dehydrate. So once the unbeliever became thirsty they would crack glass in a small towel and soak it in water and let him swallow it so that the glass will cut off his vocal cords so he can’t preach heresy. He continued saying that the Catholic Church would bury women alive who were unbelievers and execute children right in front of the parents face. He said it was a total of 50-70 million people executed. He quoted this on Popes V2, p.334

It is SAD to hear, but quite frankly, I am overjoyed, this goes to show everyone that Our Lords phophesy is coming to pass daily that his True Church will be persecuted. We must pray for such people.

Ufamtobie

 

[adventistnomore]

Are the Adventists on this thread forgetting that Ellen White often called William Miller, “father Miller?”

 

[BibleTruth]

As I said I could be wrong, I thought the SDA had it’s own version of the Bible that had significant differences. I am most likely getting the SDA confused with a different group. MY mistake and I apologize. Maybe I am thinking of the LDS? Now I am just confusing myself.

No worries. The LDS may have their own version although they seem to put more credence in the Book of Mormon. You might be thinking of Jehovah’s Witness though.

 

[BibleTruth]

Oh and by the way, the ten commandments are not listed 1 through 10 anywhere in the Bible So your assertion that by listing them as the Catholic Church does some how changes the Bible is really quite silly. I could just as easily take the same words of the Bible and make 12 commandments out of them. Further did you know there are two accounts of the event with the commandments recorded in scripture and the two accountings are not exactly the same.

God Bless,
K.D.

Are you talking about the references in Exodus 20 & Deuteronomy 5?

 

[BibleTruth]

One thing many don’t know or realize is the fact that the Church listed the Ten Commandments by sin. The sins at the beginning of the list that dealt with idolatry and disrespecting God were combined. The last two sins were separated because they were not the same sin. Coveting your neighbors wife has to do with the sin of lust. Coveting your neighbors goods has to do with the sin of greed. Two completely different things. Goods are not people and your neighbors wife is not property. The Church clearly recognized this fact.

Jesus addressed the sin of lust in Matthew 5:28, relating it to adultery. “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

Coveting:
1 : to wish for earnestly
2 : to desire (what belongs to another) inordinately or culpably intransitive verb
: to feel inordinate desire for what belongs to another

James 1:25: “But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.”

God’s Law is perfect and doesn’t need humans to tamper with it…that only leads to confusion.

 

[Kansasdad]

Jesus addressed the sin of lust in Matthew 5:28, relating it to adultery. “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

Coveting:
1 : to wish for earnestly
2 : to desire (what belongs to another) inordinately or culpably intransitive verb
: to feel inordinate desire for what belongs to another

James 1:25: “But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.”

God’s Law is perfect and doesn’t need humans to tamper with it…that only leads to confusion.

Then we should get rid of all published versions of the ten commandments and just quote the scripture verses. The ten commandments you refer to are paraphrased bullet points of the scriptures. And Yes I believe you quted the correct locations from where we get the ten commandments.

God Bless,
K.D.

 

[BibleTruth]

I’m Catholic because I love Jesus Christ and want to follow were he leads and the Church is were he has lead me. I am like the Ethiopian in Acts 8:31. I am also the ignorant and unstable person that St. Peter was addressing in his second letter in 2 Peter 3:16-17. I know full well that if I went by the Bible alone I would get confused. Who better to teach me than the Church which has been around since the apostles. The Church which is so intimately connected to Jesus himself.

I’m sure you do honestly feel like you don’t need a leader but the fact is we all need someone that we can touch, feel, see, and hear to guide us. A group of people work best when they have a visible leader. God made us that way. Why do you think he referred to us as a flock, his sheep, so often? Why did he give us Abraham, Moses, King David, Isaac, and himself in the form of Jesus? Because he understands us better than we understand ourselves. He knows without a earthly leader we are lost. We are like sheep. Sheep will not follow a leader they can not see, they need someone that they can see who will guide them. Otherwise they are lost and easy prey for the wolves.

Are you not aware that St. Paul, referred to himself as our father and teacher? The article below does an excellent job of addressing the problems you have with that Scripture verse.

Call No Man Father?

There’s a big difference in an apostle, who started a church (for example the church in Corinth started by Paul, referenced in 1 Corinthians 4:15) and considered himself a father (lower-case “f”) to them in an effort to unify them than there is a mandate for people to call another human “Holy Father” (upper-case “F”). One is out of sincereness for the flock and the other is simply blasphemous.

In his Encyclical Letter “On the Chief Duties of Christians as Citizens” (January 10th, 1890), Pope Leo XIII suggested “complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to GOD Himself”. This is the type of thing Jesus spoke against.

No disrespect intended here, but with the numerous cases of Catholic leadership in the news for less-than-godly reasons, I find it hard to see how anyone would even think to call another human “Father”, as we all have a sinful nature. It’s only through God’s grace and the blood of Christ that we can live free from it…not through holy submission to another human being.

 

[dosdog]

Hebrews 13 17 Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.

Ephesians 3 10 That the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the church

Ephesians 6 5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your lords according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the simplicity of your heart, as to Christ

Acts Of Apostles 20 28 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

 

[ChristianRoots]

Catholic -

 

[BibleTruth]

Then we should get rid of all published versions of the ten commandments and just quote the scripture verses. The ten commandments you refer to are paraphrased bullet points of the scriptures. And Yes I believe you quted the correct locations from where we get the ten commandments.

God Bless,
K.D.

The whole point of the Ten Commandments (God’s Moral Law) is to show us what sin is (Romans 7:7). We don’t receive salvation by only obeying these Laws…we receive it by having faith that Christ can free us from our sin (2 Timothy 3:15), accepting him as our Saviour and loving him. Once we receive him into our hearts, the Holy Spirit produces fruits that others can see and are of benefit to all (Galatians 5:22). That love we have for him is shown by our willingness to submit to him and him alone and in doing so, obeying all of his Moral Law (John 14:15). Unless we do that, our worship for him is in vain (Mark 7:7-8).

God bless.

 

[BibleTruth]

BibleTruth;3907994:

The word Cathoic was first employed by St. Ignatius in 107 A.D in his letter to the Symreans.

True, the word Catholic, per se is not found in the Bible. But that shouldn’t necessarily be problematic because the word Trinity is found nowhere in the Bible either, yet that word has been often used by others when discussing their faith.

Please tell me specifically what in the Catechism is contrary to the Bible.

Sunday worship as “The Lord’s Day” vs. God’s true Holy day…the one that He sanctified and made Holy…the seventh-day Sabbath (what we commonly know as Saturday).

 

[dosdog]

ChristianRoots;3914461:

Sunday worship as “The Lord’s Day” vs. God’s true Holy day…the one that He sanctified and made Holy…the seventh-day Sabbath (what we commonly know as Saturday).

scriptures do not address the international dateline. Scripture addresses the setting of the sun at the end of the sixth day, and for one who travels east instead of west to the United States will find themselves observing the Sabbath on Friday, approximately 14 hours earlier than it begins in Israel, as contrasted to keeping the Sabbath approximately 10 hours after it begins in Israel, should one travel west from Israel. To insist on adjusting the calculation of one’s Sabbath based upon the international dateline is not Biblical
truthorfables.com/Sabbath_is_Friday.htm

 

[ChristianRoots]

Something of important note is that although Catholics may have done all that you said (I’ll just take your word for it since I haven’t studied the whole history of it and because the point isn’t who put it together, but that it exists), in the Dark Ages they kept Bibles chained to the churches because they didn’t want anyone to learn the full truth on their own.

 

[BibleTruth]

that is funny. you accept this woman reverently and you do not accept the Mother of our Lord. very interesting.

you like to quote Scriptures a lot. is almost like you have been programmed. because you keep quoting them and you dont quite understand what you are quoting.

sorry, but i had to be honest.

No need to apologize, but I do think you missed the whole point of what I wrote. My worship goes to God alone through Jesus Christ.

I don’t accept, as you wrote, “the Mother of our Lord”…assuming you’re talking about Mary…as any holy deity because there’s nothing in the Bible that says she is. Mary, the virgin mother of Jesus, is dead and in her grave awaiting the resurrection like most others.

I haven’t been programmed…I seek an understanding of God’s word freely because it provides me all the direction I need to live a godly life. Before judging me like that, you should understand that as it says in Matthew 7:2, the standard that you judge others is the same standard that you’ll be judged.

When judgment day comes, who will you be able to say you served…God or the programming of anyone else (including his adversary)?

 

[BibleTruth]

BibleTruth;3914512:

scriptures do not address the international dateline. Scripture addresses the setting of the sun at the end of the sixth day, and for one who travels east instead of west to the United States will find themselves observing the Sabbath on Friday, approximately 14 hours earlier than it begins in Israel, as contrasted to keeping the Sabbath approximately 10 hours after it begins in Israel, should one travel west from Israel. To insist on adjusting the calculation of one’s Sabbath based upon the international dateline is not Biblical
truthorfables.com/Sabbath_is_Friday.htm

Mark 7:9 (KJV): And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Mark 7:9 (NLT): Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition.

Believe what you choose…you won’t have to answer to me in the end.

 

[BibleTruth]

BibleTruth;3909018:

Anyone who has studied scholarly sources from researchers with no axe to grind, i.e. closet anti-Catholics, know full well that Bibles were chained so that they were not stolen.

Keep in mind that Bibles were copied by hand using expensive materials. If a Bible was stolen, the process to replace it was a very, very long one indeed. That’s why Bibles were chained.

I have read some of your other posts and it seems to me that you have an acute case of medievalitis…a belief that everything wrong with the Catholic Church was first prepetuated during the Middle Ages.

Trust me, nothing was invented during the Middle Ages. You may think it was but that is only because you do not completely understand the Catholic faith.

As a matter of respect to Catholics on this forum, you should carefully study Catholicism before making ridiculous comments.

Aren’t you dictating your INTREPRETATION of the truth to people on this forum? Aren’t you also a man?

The New Testament was put together by Catholics for Catholics to use in the Church beginning in the late fourth century. It was the Catholic Church that first approved the list of 27 books in the New Testament.

I addressed this already in response to someone else that corrected me in my ignorance of the whole subject. Thanks though.

 

[dosdog]

dosdog;3914534:

Mark 7:9 (KJV): And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Mark 7:9 (NLT): Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition.

Believe what you choose…you won’t have to answer to me in the end.

when is the last time you did this?

Prophecy Of Ezechiel
Chapter 46
Other ordinances for the prince and for the sacrifices.

1 Thus saith the Lord God: The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east, shall be shut the six days, on which work is done; but on the sabbath day it shall be opened, yea and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened. 2 And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of the gate from without, and he shall stand at the threshold of the gate: and the priests shall offer his holocaust, and his peace offerings: and he shall adore upon the threshold of the gate, and shall go out: but the gate shall not be shut till the evening. 3 And the people of the land shall adore at the door of that gate before the Lord on the sabbaths, and on the new moons. 4 And the holocaust that the prince shall offer to the Lord on the sabbath day, shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish. 5 And the sacrifice of an ephi for a ram: but for the lambs what sacrifice his hand shall allow: and a hin of oil for every ephi.

6 And on the day of the new moon a calf of the herd without blemish: and the six lambs, and the rams shall be without blemish. 7 And he shall offer in sacrifice an ephi for a calf, an ephi also for a ram: but for the lambs, as his hand shall find: and a hin of oil for every ephi. 8 And when the prince is to go in, let him go in by the way of the porch of the gate, and let him go out the same way. 9 But when the people of the land shall go in before the Lord in the solemn feasts, he that goeth in by the north gate to adore, shall go out by the way of the south gate: and he that; goeth in by the way of the south gate, shall go out by the way of the north gate: he shall not return by the way of the gate whereby he came in, but shall go out at that over against it. 10 And the prince in the midst of them, shall go in when they go in, and go out when they go out

 

[ChristianRoots]

QUOTE=BibleTruth;3914512]

Sunday worship as “The Lord’s Day” vs. God’s true Holy day…the one that He sanctified and made Holy…the seventh-day Sabbath (what we commonly know as Saturday).

In the Bible, the first Christians, the Apostles, celebrated the Lord’s day on Sunday, the first day of the week. Saturday worship was the Old Covenant, just like circumcision, etc.

Do you practice circumcision? If not, why since circumcision is found in the Bible?

Also, consider that the Old Testament itself was changed since Jesus’ arrival, i.e. Jesus changed Old Testament Scripture when he said: “You have hear it said, ‘do not committ adultery’, BUT I SAY TO YOU anyone who looks at a woman with lust in his eyes has already committed adultery.”

If you are upset about Sunday worship, you should also be upset that it is immoral to look at a woman with lust in your eyes, because originally in the Old Testament it wasn’t. Do you agree, yes or no?