Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

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BibleTruth;3914750:
Some how I get the impression you are not really reading the post. These were in direct reference to the ten commandments of which you claim the Catholic Church changed. Which as I pointed out is a silly comment. 🤷
“Eventually, some Jews rejected the Septuagint in favor of another Greek translation before, ultimately, rejecting any Greek translation as authoratative. The Hebrew text of the Hebrew bible would not be fully stabilized until the work of a group of Jewish scribes, the Masoretes, in the early Middle Ages; this became known as the MasoreticText. In addition to finally fixing the text, they added the vowels, (Hebrew does not use seperate letters to indicate vowels), divisions, punctuations, and musical notations that govern the liturgical readings of the Torah.”
Creating Judasim–History, Tradition, Practice -
by Michael L. Satlow - Satlow is an editor of Brown Judaic Studies and chair of the History and Literature of Rabbinic Judaism section of the Society of Biblical Literature, and previously taught at Indiana University, the University of Virginia and the University of Cincinnati before arriving at Brown in 2002. During the 2006/7 academic year he will teach “Judaism,” “Early Jewish Prayer,” “The Beginning of Judaism,” and “The Jewish Lifecycle.”

Erasmus could not always tell text from commentary and based his reading on the Vulgate. Also, 1r is defective for the last six verses of the Apocalypse. To fill out the text, Erasmus made his own Greek translation from the Latin. He admitted to what he had done, but the result was a Greek text containing readings not found in any Greek manuscript – but which were faithfully retained through centuries of editions of the Textus Receptus. This included even certain readings which were not even correct Greek (Scrivener offers as an example Rev. 17:4 AKAQARTHTOS). skypoint.com/~waltzmn/TR.html
The Bible was not originally inspired with divisions by chapter and verse. The ancient manuscripts didn’t have them. One man, Cardinal Hugo de Sancto Caro, started to do this from 1244 to 1248 A.D. He did this while creating a concordance of the Latin Vulgate, in order to help people look up verses of the Bible. But the typical modern chapter divisions were apparently devised by Stephen Langton, who was an Archbishop of Canterbury in England. He started to do this around 1227 A.D. The Wycliffe English Bible did use them, as it was circulated in 1382. biblestudy.org/question/biblever.html

Three hundred years before it was declared Dogma, the Protestant reformer Martin Luther said:

“…so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin…And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin.” (Martin Luther’s Works, vol 4, pg 694)

"God has formed the soul and body of the Virgin Mary full of the Holy Spirit, so that she is without all sins, " (ibid. vol 52, pg 39)

“. . . she is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin. . . . God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. . . . God is with her, meaning that all she did or left undone is divine and the action of God in her. Moreover, God guarded and protected her from all that might be hurtful to her.” (Ref: Luther’s Works, American edition, vol. 43, p. 40, ed. H. Lehmann, Fortress, 1968)
davidmacd.com/catholic/mary_conceived_without_sin_immaculate_conception.htm
 
Originally Posted by BibleTruth

Some how I get the impression you are not really reading the post.

Somwhow I get the impression you arre as ignorant of American and Biblical History as the rest of your revolutiontist Lutheran Terrorists

DD2
 
I’ve made a choice to follow the examples of Jesus Christ and not the false teachings of misguided men. I don’t have to make excuses for my beliefs or try to come up with explanations as to why I don’t obey God’s Moral Law. I love God and have chosen to keep his commandments and to serve him by loving and serving others.

When the time comes, there will be a complete unification of Christ’s true followers. And for many, there will be a sad realization that they never knew Christ at all, even after being exposed to the truth.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NLT): “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

I think my time in this forum has come to an end for now. I will continue to pray for you all and if I feel inspired to return, I will do so. But for now, I pray God blesses and keeps you all until the day of Jesus’ return to take us all home.
Well, I guess this conversation is coming to an end. Interesting he/she never would answer my question. I didn’t realize it was that difficult a question to answer. What did Jesus say we should do if we had a problem with our brother?
Interestingly enough, I also read the Bible but I do not agree with your personal interpretation of the Bible. You may be able to use the Bible to defend your beliefs but so can I. So, how do we solve this problem of difference in interpretation according to the Bible?
Is it possible I did get an answer and missed it? I have been over the post and have not seen anything resembling an answer to the above question. Well, except for MrS’ answer but that wasn’t exactly what I had in mind. 😉
 
Is it possible I did get an answer and missed it? I have been over the post and have not seen anything resembling an answer to the above question. Well, except for MrS’ answer but that wasn’t exactly what I had in mind. 😉
Hey… 😛 I resemble that.
 
You do realize that the laws you’re referencing are Mosaic Laws (written on paper and placed outside of the Ark of the Covenant), that were done away with by the blood of Christ? There is a differences in those laws vs. God’s eternal Moral Law (which was written in stone and placed inside the Ark of the Covenant).

Again, we’re warned to not try and sidestep what God has made clear, in support of choosing not to obey him.
Okay … how about this law of God … do you obey this law? If not, why not? The Bible calls it the law of the Lord … I doubt it means Lord Moses.

Leviticus 12:8 [KJV]
And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean.

Where on earth does it say that it is the law of God, you’ll ask? Your teachings classify this as the law of Moses. The problem is that your teachings are arbitrary - they have a pre-conceived idea of what the law of God is and what the law of Moses is … yet what you call the law of God is sometimes called the law of Moses in the Bible, and what you call the law of Moses is sometimes called the law of God in the Bible. This leads to all sorts of problems with ideas about how to keep the law, especially the Sabbath.

Luke 2:24 [KJV]
And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

Do you se that “law of the Lord” in there? Do you deny that this was the law of God?

If we are to keep the law of God and we don’t have to keep the law of Moses, why do we not have to keep this particular law of God? Or do you classify the law of God into different subsets as well?
 
Yes, let’s be reasonable. Adventists are NOT consistent in there insistence that others interpret scripture as they do. You have just established the point that the 10 commandments was written on stone, therefore (according to you) it they take precedence over laws written on paper.
Adventists also often forget that the law written on our hearts, called the New Law by most Catholic sources, takes precedence over the law written on stone.

They forget that stone is NOT permanent - Moses broke the first set of tablets.

2 Corinthians 3 [KJV]
3:3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency [is] of God;
3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which [glory] was to be done away:
3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation [be] glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
3:11 For if that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that which remaineth [is] glorious.
 
Originally Posted by BibleTruth

Some how I get the impression you are not really reading the post.

Somwhow I get the impression you arre as ignorant of American and Biblical History as the rest of your revolutiontist Lutheran Terrorists

DD2
Ok that was not posted by BibleTruth, That was posted by me, and your second comment just seems rude.

Kansas Dad
 
Okay, so I decided to go see who this Doug was all about and I watched almost all his videos concerning the Catholic Church.

So far, I haven’t found anything wrong with what he’s said about the Catholic Church. There is also another guy like him who is similar called Steve Wohlberg.

I found this short 10min. video from him:
youtube.com/watch?v=lmriW1hfz_I

So what’s wrong with what they are saying? To me it all fits like a glove!

I will honor and respect the Seventh-Day Sabbath, Saturday. And you Catholics better respect that and not want to try and persecute me. If you do, you will be fulfilling this prophecy!

Can you guys swear by your Bibles that you will not try to impress any government to pass Sunday Laws? CAN YOU? I wanna hear an answer. I want to hear you PROMISE me.

Because if you DO try to push others to keep Sunday, you will be shooting yourself in the foot, and the prophecy of the Seventh-Day Adventists will come to pass–making them right all along.
 
Okay, so I decided to go see who this Doug was all about and I watched almost all his videos concerning the Catholic Church.

So far, I haven’t found anything wrong with what he’s said about the Catholic Church. There is also another guy like him who is similar called Steve Wohlberg.

I found this short 10min. video from him:
youtube.com/watch?v=lmriW1hfz_I

So what’s wrong with what they are saying? To me it all fits like a glove!

I will honor and respect the Seventh-Day Sabbath, Saturday. And you Catholics better respect that and not want to try and persecute me. If you do, you will be fulfilling this prophecy!

Can you guys swear by your Bibles that you will not try to impress any government to pass Sunday Laws? CAN YOU? I wanna hear an answer. I want to hear you PROMISE me.

Because if you DO try to push others to keep Sunday, you will be shooting yourself in the foot, and the prophecy of the Seventh-Day Adventists will come to pass–making them right all along.
I would suggest that in The United States today, with the secular climate chewing at ALL religious observance, the LAST thing anybody has to worry about is the government passing laws that Sunday is to be observed as a sabbath.

I just learned today from listening to Evangelical Vernon McGee that the only one of the 10 commandments NOT commended to Christians in the New Testament is the commandment to observe the Sabbath.
 
I just learned today from listening to Evangelical Vernon McGee that the only one of the 10 commandments NOT commended to Christians in the New Testament is the commandment to observe the Sabbath.
Indeed, in the gospels when the rich man asks Jesus what he must do to be saved (Matthew 19:16-19; Mark 10:17-22; Luke 18:18-23) Jesus tells him to keep the commandments- “do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not defraud, honor your mother and father, love your neighbor as yourself”- he never once mentions the Sabbath.
 
Okay, so I decided to go see who this Doug was all about and I watched almost all his videos concerning the Catholic Church.

So far, I haven’t found anything wrong with what he’s said about the Catholic Church. There is also another guy like him who is similar called Steve Wohlberg.

I found this short 10min. video from him:
youtube.com/watch?v=lmriW1hfz_I

So what’s wrong with what they are saying? To me it all fits like a glove!

I will honor and respect the Seventh-Day Sabbath, Saturday. And you Catholics better respect that and not want to try and persecute me. If you do, you will be fulfilling this prophecy!

Can you guys swear by your Bibles that you will not try to impress any government to pass Sunday Laws? CAN YOU? I wanna hear an answer. I want to hear you PROMISE me.

Because if you DO try to push others to keep Sunday, you will be shooting yourself in the foot, and the prophecy of the Seventh-Day Adventists will come to pass–making them right all along.
What in the name of Benedict 16 are you talking about? I’m on another forum right now arguing against athiests and agnostics who want places to shut down on Sunday, where I’m all for all places being open all day every day. That’s the beauty of athiests, Buddhists, Jews, and Muslims, et al; they don’t mind working on Sunday…we need places open…and we’ll work on the day’s they need off…there’s no reason to legislate anything. How brainwashed are you that you actually believe this DESPITE NO EVIDENCE? …I’m persecuting you, are you triumphantly proud? Will you grant me this?
 
What are Sunday Laws? I’ve never heard of such a thing, and I’ve been Catholic all my life.
 
What are Sunday Laws? I’ve never heard of such a thing, and I’ve been Catholic all my life.
Neither Catholic nor SDA.

Sounds like the Blue Laws. As the nation was formed by God fearing people by law commerce was restricted on Sunday’s. Today there are still laws in some places where you can’t buy booze on Sundays but can the rest of the week for example. Of course people who honor the Sabbath, or take a day other then Sunday, will object to Sunday laws since they have lost two days to work, buy food , etc. Meanwhile those who honor Sunday or no day have only lost Sunday to do these functions since it is by the civil law not the shopkeeper by choice, the Sunday Law which has closed the shops.
 
Neither Catholic nor SDA.

Sounds like the Blue Laws. As the nation was formed by God fearing people by law commerce was restricted on Sunday’s. Today there are still laws in some places where you can’t buy booze on Sundays but can the rest of the week for example. Of course people who honor the Sabbath, or take a day other then Sunday, will object to Sunday laws since they have lost two days to work, buy food , etc. Meanwhile those who honor Sunday or no day have only lost Sunday to do these functions since it is by the civil law not the shopkeeper by choice, the Sunday Law which has closed the shops.
Thanks for clearing that up.

I imagine that in a democracy any law would be put to the voters or their representatives. So why is Lysimachus saying
I will honor and respect the Seventh-Day Sabbath, Saturday. And you Catholics better respect that and not want to try and persecute me. If you do, you will be fulfilling this prophecy!

Can you guys swear by your Bibles that you will not try to impress any government to pass Sunday Laws? CAN YOU? I wanna hear an answer. I want to hear you PROMISE me.
as if Catholics are some kind of threat to his (her?) religious freedom? I would never seek to impose my religious beliefs upon others. A religion that is not freely chosen is not actually chosen at all. I might wish to persuade someone by logic and reason, but I would never impose my beliefs, nor do I know any Catholic who would.

I don’t know what Lysimachus has been told about Catholics, but the idea that some sort of conspiracy is going on is ludicrous. Perhaps before he (she?) comes in here and starts making accusations, a little research into what the Church actually teaches would be warranted.
 
When the time comes, there will be a complete unification of Christ’s true followers. And for many, there will be a sad realization that they never knew Christ at all, even after being exposed to the truth.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NLT): “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

QUOTE]take a good look in the mirror with these words you who is called bibletruth…
 
What are Sunday Laws? I’ve never heard of such a thing, and I’ve been Catholic all my life.
The Seventh Day Adventists publish a book called “National Sunday Law.” In it they claim that worship on Sunday is the Mark of the Beast foretold in Revelation, and that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon which will force everyone to worship on that day or be martyred.
 
The Seventh Day Adventists publish a book called “National Sunday Law.” In it they claim that worship on Sunday is the Mark of the Beast foretold in Revelation, and that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon which will force everyone to worship on that day or be martyred.
Well, that would take care of a lot of Catholics who don’t seem to be able to get out of bed on Sunday mornng!
 
I am a Messianic Jew. I keep the whole Law of Moses, including the Ten Commandments, the UNCHANGING Law of God, and the Law the pre-incarnate Yeshua, (Jesus, YWVH, God the Son) dictated to Moses on Mt. Sinai.

The Catholic Church says it would never do what it, historically did, and it’s leader, John Pual 11, admitted and sought forgiveness for: persecuting protestants, sometimes killing them because they would not accept an earthly priesthood, now supposedly contained in the Roman Catholic Church. Supposedly, because the real Priestly ministry is in Heaven now; no longer on the earth. And Yeshua (Jesus) is the High Priest, using His own blood as propitiation for our sins.

The Catholic Church, by stating that it will never attempt to force anyone to keep Sunday, rather than the Sabbath that Christ, Himself wrote out with His own finger, but saying that “Blue Laws” are merely civil, is to hide behind the civil law, itself. The civil laws are what have been prophecied will be used in eventually attempting to force believers in other religious days and festivals to follow the Catholic Church’s teaching about Sunday. When the economic situation does not improve by emptying businesses on a day not ordained by God the Father or God the Son, it will be easier, then, for the Catholic Church to turn to the civil authorities to try to enhance Church attendance and support.

That is it’s admitted history. Only it can turn back the tide of distrust it’s historical activities engendered among the others. This means a steadfast adherence, in not only Church governance, but in civil government by joining others who doctrinally disagree with it’s position on the Sabbath question, and voting against any measure that attempts to force people, including their own members, to close shop on Sunday.

The essence of Christ is guaranteed FREEDOM of conscience in such matters. He cannot, and will not bless any religious group, or other groups whose members say one thing about freedom in church, while voting to support the opposite in civil government at any level. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy. He saw through the double standard used by the Jewish leadership of His day on earh. He sees through it today.

While I disagree with the SDA Church on the issue of saying on one hand, that the Law of Moses was nailed to the cross, while on the other hand picking and choosing which Laws Jesus dictated to Moses (It was Jesus’ voice that Moses heard and listened to as he wrote out the Laws, Statutes and Judgements, including the annual Holy Convocations, and special sabbaths), they at least do have the day described in the Fourth Commandment, correct.

The annual Holy Convocations and annual sabbaths, which, by the way, were meant to provide the not only remembrance themes to study on the seventh day of the week, Shabbat, but also, if the Jewish people had only seen, or wanted to see (for reasons of selfish greed, they did not want to see) Christ’s prophetic messages in each of the annual “Feasts,” as they are called today, they would two mellinia ago have accepted Yeshua Hamaschiach (Jesus, the Messiah), and we would not today be discussing how to keep each other free.

In civil government today, our judgement about what is right, what is wrong, and how to deal with those in government who have, and we all know this down deep inside, LIED to us, has been politicized. In public discourse on such topics, it has taken private research groups and organizations to come up with the actual, documented truth about past horrific events that high-level leaders in our own government have selfishly perpetrated on our own people, and the peoples of other countries around the world.

By “politicized,” I mean that we have learned to listen to “leaders” of many types for far too long. We, as individuals, do not study either religious or political subjects with an open, but self-educated mind. It is that independence of thought that we must strive to maintain, with all the freedoms and guarantees that our nation’s forefathers ensconced into the Constitution, itself.

We cannot hide behind anything. The only One we can choose to listen to, is Yeshua Hamaschiach (Jesus, the Messiah). That even means our own Church leaders. They are mere human beings.

Belief in real freedom takes a lot of courage, and guts. Take a stand.

God bless both denominations, and all the others. May He cause us to be brave, especially with ourselves, and our groups.

RonTheNewJew

Blue Laws are merely a stepping stone. They are nowhere near as prevelant as they once were. If the current economic problems can be ameliorated by the incoming Obama administration, with all the new, highly intelligent talent he is mustering to the task, the above scenario may be held off for a while.
 
Kay Cee said: “I don’t know what Lysimachus has been told about Catholics, but the idea that some sort of conspiracy is going on is ludicrous. Perhaps before he (she?) comes in here and starts making accusations, a little research into what the Church actually teaches would be warranted.”

If you researched the “Church” you would fear it and hate “it”, not
it’s members. Many of my friends and family are “Catholics” and
are very loving, kind, people that love Jesus and would hate the
“Church” if they really knew what she was like.

"Mede has calculated from good authorities, “that
in the war with the Albigenses and Waldenses there
perished of these people, in France alone, 1,000,000.
From the first institution of the Jesuits to the year
1580, a little more than thirty years, 900,000 orthodox
Christians were slain. In the Netherlands alone, the
Duke of Alva boasted, that within a few years he had
despatched to the amount of 36,000 souls, and those
all by the hand of the common executioner. In the
space of scarce thirty years, the Inquisition destroy-
ed by various kinds of torture, 150,000 Christians.”
Gibbon states it ,as a fact, though a melancholy one,
that Papal Rome has shed immensely more Christian
blood, than Pagan Rome had ever done. He gives
but one illustration ; that, however, a fearful one.
“In the Netherlands alone,” says he, “more than
100,000 of the subjects of Charles V., are said to have
suffered by the hands of the executioner.”*

Gregory the Great, bishop of Rome, also employs the
word in the same way. Reprimanding John, bishop
of Constantinople, who was seeking to be made head
of the whole church, he says — “Ergo fidenter dico,
quod quisquis se universalem sacerdotem vocat, vel
vocari desiderabit in elatione sua, Antichristum prse-
currit.”|| " I say confidently, therefore, that whosoever
calls himself universal bishop, or even desires in his
pride to be called such, is the forerunner of Anti-
christ."

“The Catholic Church
is a respecter of conscience and of liberty as we were
lately reminded in clear and beautiful language from
the pulpit of Notre Dame ; with Saint Bernard, the
Fathers, and other theologians she believes and pro-
fesses that “faith is a work of persuasion, not of
force, fides suadenda est, non imponenda” She has,
and she loudly proclaims that she has, a " horror of
blood.” Nevertheless when confronted by heresy
she does not content herself with persuasion ; argu-
ments of an intellectual and moral order appear to
her insufficient and she has recourse to force, to
corporal punishment, to torture. She creates
tribunals like those of the Inquisition, she calls
the laws of State to her aid, if necessary she en-
courages a crusade, or a religious war and all her
" horror of blood " practically culminates into urging
the secular power to shed it, which proceeding is
almost more odious for it is less frank than
shedding it herself. Especially did she act thus in
the sixteenth century with regard to Protestants.
Not content to reform morally, to preach by
example, to convert people by eloquent and holy
missionaries, she lit in Italy, in the Low Countries,
and above all in Spain the funeral piles of the In-
quisition."
The catholic church, the Renaissance and Protestantism by A Baudrillart

If you watch the news you will find that the RC Church is trying to force the EU to to legislate Sunday laws right now, thus legislating morality… Something Jesus never did. He never used force or coercion. If you really read your Bible you will find no command from God to keep Sunday, no change of the Sabbath. It’s only authority comes from sinful men, whether they be bishops or popes. The meaning of CULT:
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
Thus the RC church is the world’s largest cult. It’s doctrine is that the pope is it’s head, it’s leader, that he is to be worshiped, they bow down to him, kiss his hand, pray to him, etc…
We should worship God alone… Jesus and His Father, and submit to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Not to a sinner in need of salvation himself!!
This may seem a bit harsh but check things out for yourself… read your Bible, check the history! It’s there if you want to know the Truth.

God bless all!
 
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