Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

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Kay Cee said: “I don’t know what Lysimachus has been told about Catholics, but the idea that some sort of conspiracy is going on is ludicrous. Perhaps before he (she?) comes in here and starts making accusations, a little research into what the Church actually teaches would be warranted.”

If you researched the “Church” you would fear it and hate “it”, not
it’s members. Many of my friends and family are “Catholics” and
are very loving, kind, people that love Jesus and would hate the
“Church” if they really knew what she was like.

"Mede has calculated from good authorities, “that
in the war with the Albigenses and Waldenses there
perished of these people, in France alone, 1,000,000.
From the first institution of the Jesuits to the year
1580, a little more than thirty years, 900,000 orthodox
Christians were slain. In the Netherlands alone, the
Duke of Alva boasted, that within a few years he had
despatched to the amount of 36,000 souls, and those
all by the hand of the common executioner. In the
space of scarce thirty years, the Inquisition destroy-
ed by various kinds of torture, 150,000 Christians.”
Gibbon states it ,as a fact, though a melancholy one,
that Papal Rome has shed immensely more Christian
blood, than Pagan Rome had ever done. He gives
but one illustration ; that, however, a fearful one.
“In the Netherlands alone,” says he, “more than
100,000 of the subjects of Charles V., are said to have
suffered by the hands of the executioner.”*

Gregory the Great, bishop of Rome, also employs the
word in the same way. Reprimanding John, bishop
of Constantinople, who was seeking to be made head
of the whole church, he says — “Ergo fidenter dico,
quod quisquis se universalem sacerdotem vocat, vel
vocari desiderabit in elatione sua, Antichristum prse-
currit.”|| " I say confidently, therefore, that whosoever
calls himself universal bishop, or even desires in his
pride to be called such, is the forerunner of Anti-
christ."

“The Catholic Church
is a respecter of conscience and of liberty as we were
lately reminded in clear and beautiful language from
the pulpit of Notre Dame ; with Saint Bernard, the
Fathers, and other theologians she believes and pro-
fesses that “faith is a work of persuasion, not of
force, fides suadenda est, non imponenda” She has,
and she loudly proclaims that she has, a " horror of
blood.” Nevertheless when confronted by heresy
she does not content herself with persuasion ; argu-
ments of an intellectual and moral order appear to
her insufficient and she has recourse to force, to
corporal punishment, to torture. She creates
tribunals like those of the Inquisition, she calls
the laws of State to her aid, if necessary she en-
courages a crusade, or a religious war and all her
" horror of blood " practically culminates into urging
the secular power to shed it, which proceeding is
almost more odious for it is less frank than
shedding it herself. Especially did she act thus in
the sixteenth century with regard to Protestants.
Not content to reform morally, to preach by
example, to convert people by eloquent and holy
missionaries, she lit in Italy, in the Low Countries,
and above all in Spain the funeral piles of the In-
quisition."
The catholic church, the Renaissance and Protestantism by A Baudrillart

If you watch the news you will find that the RC Church is trying to force the EU to to legislate Sunday laws right now, thus legislating morality… Something Jesus never did. He never used force or coercion. If you really read your Bible you will find no command from God to keep Sunday, no change of the Sabbath. It’s only authority comes from sinful men, whether they be bishops or popes. The meaning of CULT:
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
Thus the RC church is the world’s largest cult. It’s doctrine is that the pope is it’s head, it’s leader, that he is to be worshiped, they bow down to him, kiss his hand, pray to him, etc…
We should worship God alone… Jesus and His Father, and submit to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Not to a sinner in need of salvation himself!!
This may seem a bit harsh but check things out for yourself… read your Bible, check the history! It’s there if you want to know the Truth.

God bless all!
If you read the Catholic Encyclopedia, you will see that none of the darker chapters in the Church’s history is glossed over or hidden. The lives of the Renaissance Popes are laid out in embarrassing detail. It was that openness that made me start thinking that the Church must be operating off of a platform of integrity if it was willing to publish it’s own painful history for all to read.

That said, your “revelations” here come as no surprise to any of us. And as for “Sunday laws” – get over it. It ain’t happenin’. Anywhere. What does it do for you to believe stuff like this?

The numbers you cite amount to a level of fiction that the simple demographics cannot support.
 
It always seemed to me that Sunday laws in Europe was more a feature of socialism and an attempt of union movements to limit work hours then it was a returen to religious roots of Christian Europe.
 
It always seemed to me that Sunday laws in Europe was more a feature of socialism and an attempt of union movements to limit work hours then it was a returen to religious roots of Christian Europe.
Exactly.

Think about it: Europe today is virtually godless. The Pope has been a lone voice in the EU pointing out that the history and culture of Europe are intimately tied with Christianity.

The idea that the EU would implement Sunday laws because the Catholic Church is pushing for it is absurd (especially since the Catholic position on Sunday work is extremely generous).
 
I just want to make something clear.

I’m not here to bash Catholics. I have a lot of Catholic friends, and I believe MANY Catholics will be saved! I will always be their friends!

However, my conscience cannot allow me to preach smooth talks about the leadership (“system”). The system of beliefs that is.

You Catholics in here are telling me you will uphold my freedom to rest on Sabbath (Saturday). I really appreciate that! You don’t know how much that means to me. However, I sure hope you’re right! I sure hope your leaders don’t let you down!!

So we’ll SEE!

I want your word that if Catholics start to encourage government to impose Sunday Laws, and possibly in the future try to make Sabbath keepers also keep Sunday, that you will be the FIRST to oppose it!

So far, things don’t look so pretty. Seventh-Day Adventists have believed that a National Sunday Law will one day be imposed by the Papacy on conjunction with Protestant Powers (who also keep Sunday, so it would be very easy). You say it won’t happen. Once again, I hope you’re right, and I am delighted to hear that you are not for this!

But so far, what is happening in Europe right now doesn’t seem so exciting. Please check this out:

The EU Must Keep Sunday, Says Catholic Church
thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=5676.4031.0.0

And these out: Press Releases 14.11.2008 and 06.11.2008

Some Seventh-Day Adventists believe that there will be a series of 3 national Sunday laws past. I believe it would be more like 4, but perhaps the first won’t be “national.”

1. [local laws] Mild laws giving workers rights to not work on Sunday if they choose, yet not prohibiting those who want to work.
Perhaps related to what Obama supporters are talking about? my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/Tritium/gG5ngR

OK, fine, no big deal!

However, as disasters in the earth increase, and economic crises begin to escalate, top religious leaders will unite and claim that the reason all these calamaties are happening is because the world has “withdrawn from God”, so they will try to encourage congress and other government leaders around the world to impose a Day of Rest where EVERYONE can’t work.

2. Impose national Sunday laws where nobody can work

But this won’t stop the world from getting worse, it won’t stop the crises from increasing. It won’t stop natural disasters, and it won’t stop economic downturn.

They begin to investigate why the Sunday Laws arn’t working.

So a deeper push comes—to try and make everyone OBSERVE Sunday as “The Lord’s Day”.

3. Everyone observes Sunday as “The Lord’s Day” and does not work.

But this still doesn’t stop the world from getting worse. It only continues to escalate.

Then they begin to point fingers at the Sabbath keepers! They say, “they are the reason all this economic crisis is happening!” “they are not obeying the Law!” “God is punishing us because there are Law breakers in the camp!”

4. All Sabbath keepers must choose to observe Sunday and not Sabbath. If they do not, they will not be able to “buy or sell” (Revelation 13:17). But Sabbath observers will not go against their consciences, so they will not obey a law they believe is against God. Eventually…this will lead to the death decree. The true Sabbath observers will be willing to die for their faith.

The Sunday upholders will say “It is better for a handful to perish than for the whole world!”

Now some of you are telling me this won’t happen. And as sincere as some of you Catholics in here may be, I just hope you’re right!

I just want your word that you will oppose such an act if it does happen! (even if you think it won’t happen).

Promise?

🙂
 
When the United States was first founded, it was illegal in most places to be open for business on Sunday. IT had nothing to do with Catholics. Puritans were the harshest of them all.

In Alabama, and most of the deep south, Sunday laws started to vanish about 30 years ago. In some places, you still cannot be open or sell alcohol. It has nothing to do with Catholics. This is the Baptist influence.

If there was this Catholic Controll of the world, I wish they would kick some business my way. I could use the money.
 
I just want to make something clear.

I’m not here to bash Catholics. I have a lot of Catholic friends, and I believe MANY Catholics will be saved! I will always be their friends!
You have no idea how comforted we all are to have your opinion on this subject.
 
You’re forgetting Ralphinal that the reason Protestants, Baptists, Evangelicals, and what not, keep Sunday is because of the Catholic Church’s influence. They “protested”, and broke away, but most of them never completely detached themselves from the Catholic tradition.

Notice:

“… the observance of Sunday by Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the Catholic Church.” Monsignor Louis Segar, Plain Talk About Protestantism of Today, p.213

"If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship god on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church." Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore replying for the Cardinal in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revoluationary change, the Church ever did happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday … not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church’s sense of its own power … People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy” (Saint Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21, 1995)

“Of course the Catholic church claims that the change was her act, and the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power.” Cardinal Gibbons, Faith Of Our Fathers.

“Sunday is our mark of authority…The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.”
Catholic Record, September 1, 1923

Yes, we do believe that it is Protestants pushing Sunday laws. Thanks to them, the Vatican doesn’t have to try very hard. They’re just sitting back letting them do all the work for them.

But don’t deny the fact that the the Vatican is all for it! Just the fact that they are asking the EU to keep Sunday is evidence of this fact.

You see, this is why Adventists believe that those Protestants who push for Sunday Laws are the ones “Forming an image to the beast”.

Once again, I hope none of this happens. I’m just explaining to you the basis for all of this.

And once again, I hope you’re right! And I don’t believe you nice Catholics in here would want to persecute anyone! I don’t believe that! You people are nice! I just hope that your niceness is reflected in your fathers! 🙂
 
You’re forgetting Ralphinal that the reason Protestants, Baptists, Evangelicals, and what not, keep Sunday is because of the Catholic Church’s influence. They “protested”, and broke away, but most of them never completely detached themselves from the Catholic tradition.

Notice:

“… the observance of Sunday by Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the Catholic Church.” Monsignor Louis Segar, Plain Talk About Protestantism of Today, p.213

"If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship god on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church." Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore replying for the Cardinal in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revoluationary change, the Church ever did happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday … not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church’s sense of its own power … People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy” (Saint Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21, 1995)

“Of course the Catholic church claims that the change was her act, and the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power.” Cardinal Gibbons, Faith Of Our Fathers.

“Sunday is our mark of authority…The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.”
Catholic Record, September 1, 1923

Yes, we do believe that it is Protestants pushing Sunday laws. Thanks to them, the Vatican doesn’t have to try very hard. They’re just sitting back letting them do all the work for them.

But don’t deny the fact that the the Vatican is all for it! Just the fact that they are asking the EU to keep Sunday is evidence of this fact.

You see, this is why Adventists believe that those Protestants who push for Sunday Laws are the ones “Forming an image to the beast”.

Once again, I hope none of this happens. I’m just explaining to you the basis for all of this.

And once again, I hope you’re right! And I don’t believe you nice Catholics in here would want to persecute anyone! I don’t believe that! You people are nice! I just hope that your niceness is reflected in your fathers! 🙂
Not that this is the tread for it, but did you ever consider that this interpretation could be wrong?
 
Not that this is the tread for it, but did you ever consider that this interpretation could be wrong?
Of course I’ve considered it. Which is why I’m giving the benefit of the doubt! Regardless if it’s true or not, all I’m asking is that you promise you will stand for truth regardless of what happens. If you can promise it, my admiration for you and others here will only grow! 🙂
 
Of course I’ve considered it. Which is why I’m giving the benefit of the doubt! Regardless if it’s true or not, all I’m asking is that you promise you will stand for truth regardless of what happens. If you can promise it, my admiration for you and others here will only grow! 🙂
You have my word that I will always stand for the Truth.
 
You have my word that I will always stand for the Truth
Thank you for these words. They are encouraging.

I should probably clarify in what I meant by the word “truth”. What I meant by that is, “rights and religious freedom” for anyone to worship on the day that they choose. I trust you mean to stand for this as well. 🙂
 
Thank you for these words. They are encouraging.

I should probably clarify in what I meant by the word “truth”. What I meant by that is, “rights and religious freedom” for anyone to worship on the day that they choose. I trust you mean to stand for this as well. 🙂
Well, if Sunday worship is the “mark of the beast,” perhaps WE should exact a promise from YOU that when the SDAs achieve world power through proliferation, evangelization, and by achieving high political and military office, YOU will grant “rights and religious freedom” for anyone to worship on the day that they choose, including Sunday.

Deal?
 
Well, if Sunday worship is the “mark of the beast,” perhaps WE should exact a promise from YOU that when the SDAs achieve world power through proliferation, evangelization, and by achieving high political and military office, YOU will grant “rights and religious freedom” for anyone to worship on the day that they choose, including Sunday.
Absolutely! DEAL! Have you ever read the appeal of Alonzo T. Jones to Senator Blair?
maranathamedia.com/start/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=183

You should read/hear what he says! He was a Seventh-Day Adventist, and he won this appeal in 1888! They asked him the same question you just asked me. He expressed how if the legislators were to legislate a law to keep Saturday, they would oppose it just the same!

You can watch a re-enactment of the debate in this following Google Video: The actual debate starts at 54min. 15sec., so you will have to slide the bar. But start at the 52min. mark and end after the debate is over at the 59min. mark :
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7414139972109914329&ei=w58-Sbq3CoTyqAPn8fDKCA&q=The+Seventh+Day+Part+5&emb=1

Please watch. 🙂
 
You’re forgetting Ralphinal that the reason Protestants, Baptists, Evangelicals, and what not, keep Sunday is because of the Catholic Church’s influence. They “protested”, and broke away, but most of them never completely detached themselves from the Catholic tradition.

Notice:

“… the observance of Sunday by Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the Catholic Church.” Monsignor Louis Segar, Plain Talk About Protestantism of Today, p.213

"If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship god on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church." Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore replying for the Cardinal in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revoluationary change, the Church ever did happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday … not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church’s sense of its own power … People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy” (Saint Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21, 1995)

“Of course the Catholic church claims that the change was her act, and the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power.” Cardinal Gibbons, Faith Of Our Fathers.

“Sunday is our mark of authority…The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.”
Catholic Record, September 1, 1923

Yes, we do believe that it is Protestants pushing Sunday laws. Thanks to them, the Vatican doesn’t have to try very hard. They’re just sitting back letting them do all the work for them.

But don’t deny the fact that the the Vatican is all for it! Just the fact that they are asking the EU to keep Sunday is evidence of this fact.

You see, this is why Adventists believe that those Protestants who push for Sunday Laws are the ones “Forming an image to the beast”.

Once again, I hope none of this happens. I’m just explaining to you the basis for all of this.

And once again, I hope you’re right! And I don’t believe you nice Catholics in here would want to persecute anyone! I don’t believe that! You people are nice! I just hope that your niceness is reflected in your fathers! 🙂
SDAs have used legislation and encouraged members to push for legislation that would be in line with their beliefs. I think that if they have enough people in an area to accomplish this (at least in the U.S.A.) it is well within their bounds to legislate “morality”.

Two examples:
  1. When I lived in Takoma Park, Maryland in the late 70s and early 80s, there were enough SDAs to legislate that alcohol could not be sold within the city limits of Takoma Park. I do not know if this is still the case or not.
  2. In the early 90s the President of the Columbia Union of Seventh day Adventists, encouraged SDA members to write to their Federal legislators and then President William Clinton to push for legislation to prohibit tobacco.
While it seems to contradict the constant claim against “legislating morality”, it is a viable practice in a democratic government to work for laws that protect and secure you way of life.

As for Sunday being the mark of the beast. It is most difficult to arrive at that conclusion from the scriptures alone.

Below are three chapters from The Great Controversy by Ellen G. White, the prophetess of the SDA church. These pretty much lay out the beliefs of SDAs towad Catholicism and the sabbath/saturday-sunday issues. Of course to avoid being accused of making biased selections, I would encourage anyone who is interested to take a look at the entire book…it is online.

While SDAs use a few scripture references to support their beliefs that sunday is the mark of the beast, that doctrine is only established by the story that Ellen G. White writes, weaving together those verses in order to create an interpretation.

Chapter 3, An Era of Spiritual Darkness

whiteestate.org/books/gc/gc3.html

Chapter 38, The Final Warning

whiteestate.org/books/gc/gc38.html

Chapter 39, The Time of Trouble

whiteestate.org/books/gc/gc39.html

SDAs, you really do not need to worry about the Catholics hunting you down for going to church on saturday. You should consider ceasing to put others down who go to church on sunday.

God bless all!!!
 
Well I don’t agree with those SDA leaders that do that, to be honest.

Not even Ellen White was very popular among her own church, and she was always opposing their involvement in politics.

The spirit of the SDA movement was much different when it was originally founded, but like all churches, corruptions comes in.

After all, there are 13 million in the SDA church.

I am not an “organization” proponent, personally. I believe in the foundation of SDA principles, but I don’t agree with the decisions the leaders have been making within the last century.

Yes, I will admit. I do believe God’s true church in the end-of-time will be Sabbath keepers, but they will come out of all people’s, nations, churches, and tongues and come into the unity of the faith to stand for what is right. God’s true church will be the true vine of the spirit, not of the letter.
 
Well I don’t agree with those SDA leaders that do that, to be honest.

Not even Ellen White was very popular among her own church, and she was always opposing their involvement in politics.

The spirit of the SDA movement was much different when it was originally founded, but like all churches, corruptions comes in.

After all, there are 13 million in the SDA church.

I am not an “organization” proponent, personally. I believe in the foundation of SDA principles, but I don’t agree with the decisions the leaders have been making within the last century.

Yes, I will admit. I do believe God’s true church in the end-of-time will be Sabbath keepers, but they will come out of all people’s, nations, churches, and tongues and come into the unity of the faith to stand for what is right. God’s true church will be the true vine of the spirit, not of the letter.
Hi,

I offer you a few scriptures regarding God’s true Church. If you will, read them, pray about them, contemplate them, and pray about them.

John chapters 17 and 19

Ephesisans chapter 2

John chapter 6

God bless you!!!
 
Hi Catholics,

There is a guy I saw on the BET network. His name is Doug Batchelor, president of his show called Amazing Facts. In his show he preaches the bible using an 80 inch screen television. He has made me upset. If there are Catholics right now reading this, please give your feedback. I’ve watched other religious channels before but they never criticized other religions. This show brutally criticized the Catholic Church.

Let’s begin on what Mr. Batchelor preached:

Catholic Church Attack #1

Mr. Batchelor said he read the book Crossing the Threshold of Hope written by his Holiness John Paul II. In the book it says:"Confronted with the Pope, one must make a choice. The leader of the Catholic Church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers), The Pope is considered the man on the earth who represents the Son of God, who ‘takes the place’ of the second person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity. page 3

Mr. Batchelor stated this is blasphemy. He states “The Bible states that God is Holy, Holy and reverened is His Name.” He argued that the Pope is man and since he is man he is human. Human falls short in the Glory of God. He said that the pope shouldn’t even consider himself the 2nd of the trinity…

Catholic Church Attack #2

Mr Batchelor stated “Where in the Bible states that Sunday is the holy day of obligation?” He said “A long time ago Saturday was the holy day of obligation, it was a Catholic Tradition. Constantine wanted to satisfy the Romans so he made Sunday the holy day of obligation for the Romans because that day was assigned as the Sun God.” He continued saying that because of this the Catholic Church had two days of obligation. One day was Saturday which was Catholic Tradition to be the holy day of obligation. The 2nd day which was Sunday was made to make the Romans happy. So for many years we had 2 days of obligation and soon, Catholics broke away from tradition and assigned Sunday as the holy day of obligation. Mr. Batchelor said “Check this out, this is why Catholic Tradition falls short and that is why there is no scripture to back this up.”

Catholic Church Attack #3
Mr. Batchelor said that the Catholic Church was brutal in persecuting non-believers or didn’t believe in the Catholic way. If someone was caught preaching against the Church they would capture him, tie hiim up and let him dehydrate. So once the unbeliever became thirsty they would crack glass in a small towel and soak it in water and let him swallow it so that the glass will cut off his vocal cords so he can’t preach heresy. He continued saying that the Catholic Church would bury women alive who were unbelievers and execute children right in front of the parents face. He said it was a total of 50-70 million people executed. He quoted this on Popes V2, p.334
Are you mad at Doug Batchelor because he is right, or are you mad at yourself because you do not read or study or even know the Bible as well as he does.
 
Are you mad at Doug Batchelor because he is right, or are you mad at yourself because you do not read or study or even know the Bible as well as he does.
are you saying that everything this guy said here against the CC is in the Bible?

have you even read history to find out if this guy is really telling you the truth.

Please. where did the Bible come from? who put the Bible together? was it your church? where was your church when heretics believes had to be discorouged?

**

“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… … **
 
WisdomSeeker,

I have a question for you.

How do you interpret 2 Thess 2:3 regarding the “falling away”, and that immediately after, the “son of perdition” coming to power?

Then again, how do you interpret 2 Thess 2:6 and 7 regarding the “mystery of iniquity” already working, and that the one that is “witholding” or “restraining” the man of sin will soon be “taken out of the way”?

Also, how do you account for the fact that 1. The Son of Perdition was known as “Judas” (within the Church), and 2. That nearly all the early Church Fathers believed that the Antichrist Power would arise IMMEDIATELY or “SHORTLY AFTER” the fall of the Roman Empire?

Also, how do you account for the fact that this that all these early Church fathers believed the commensing of the antichrist power would rule for approx. 1260 days/42 months/time times and a half? Or, or perhaps said by a Cardinal himself “12 centuries long” (a good approximate). ? A day for year principle is regarded here according to the Historicist line of thinking.

Tell me, who ruled during the Dark Ages over the kings of Europe? The Papacy? or the few little families of Waldenses and Huegenots in the mountains? You tell me brother. And whichever it was that “ruled”, the bible says that the one that “ruled” or “reigned”, was the evil one. Not the ones given into their hand.

Seriously my friend, we’ve got to look at this very simply! It’s a no brainer!

God is not the author of confusion.
 
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