Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

[Gabriel_of_12]

To check and see if the translators got it right.

Thank you for responding vs evading like the others have done.

Forgive me; did you say you are one who is checking today if the biblical translators got it right? That’s a pretty bold statement coming from a religion that has just come into existance since the biblical translators?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Hello Gabriel of 12,
I live in a very Catholic country and am surrounded by Catholics and have them in my family. Thanks to God some of them had their eyes opened and refrained from men invented doctrines of Catholic church.
I according to you have false ideas of the teachings of Catholic church…To me Bible is the mirror to tell me what is right or wrong,what is of God and what is of men and their traditions, I do not fall for emotional stuff when discussing the Bible.I repeat again that if you show me from the Scriptures that any of Apostles support doctrines of Catholic church I will admit that what I say is wrong but none gives me any Biblical backgrounds instead I get this reply:

I am sorry but what you say and feel is what you say and feel and not what Bible says. Many will be honest and will think they were on the right path. If people’s feelings had importance in God’s eyes why would Jesus said that there will be the ones who will say we did this and that in His name and what will be the reply: I really do not know you!
For me the only merit has what God and His Son say. It is interesting, I have never heard any of you pray to Moses, Elijah or Enoch for whom we have Scriptural backgrounds that they are alive with God but your prayers are directed to the Queen of Heaven-interestingly the pagan nations prayed their idol with the same name.
cont…

Gabriel of 12;
The reason you haven’t heard a Catholic pray for the intercession of Moses, Elijah and Enoch along with all the others mentioned in the bible and Saints after the Apostles, is because you have not attended Mass for a complete 3 year cycle or else you would have heard these prayers. This says alot about your misunderstanding of Catholic belief’s.

What I shared with you is what Catholics practice and believe, but for some unknown reason here, you refuse to believe testimony from a practicing Catholic who has informed you, that some one has decieved you about Apostolic Tradition which only the Catholic church can teach because she was the only Christian society in existance since the Apostles. Yet some one has lied to you, and convinced you that Catholics follow mens traditions instead of God? this is a lie from the devil himself. Give me one mans tradition that the Catholic church follows instead of God?, and I will help you see some light from your darkness.

Thus far, you have only made a clarion cry to a false pretense of the Catholic faith, without any historical or factual evidence, only what you have been trained to do as Saul of Tarsus did from a blind side of faith. Without any reason other than the deceptions you have been given and the lack of truthful gainful knowledge of the Catholic church Jesus built upon Peter, you entertain yourself with by persecution of Catholic belief’s believing you are speaking a truth, when in reality you appear as a noisy gong that makes no sense to us practicing Catholics and those learned non catholics and protestants alike, would disagree with your false assumptions of Mary and thus far you have not provided any proof of a man made tradition followed by Catholics instead of God? only a out of time gong.

To date, you have accused the Catholic church of following mans traditoins instead of God? That Catholics worship Mary? You have expressed you dont care about feelings, I feel sorry for you, because your reasoning for attacking the Catholic church has no foundation, only deception, misunderstandings, and out right refusal of belief. Now tell me is this the way to inform one who is searching for the Truth by false accusations of anothers belief?, and is this the way to teach the Truth by attacking the Catholic church who has given you the bible you have today, then think you can use the Catholic church’s canonized bible books to conflict with what Jesus commissioned the Catholic church to teach, and Jesus did not wright any thing down, because He has been with his Catholic church since Jesus himself founded and built his Catholic church.

If you care to share your SDA faith here, you are most welcome, but attacking the Catholic church has no purpose but to hit your own foot against a stone (Rock). You might be better informing what you think Catholics believe or what you have been told Catholics believe, and then Let Catholics explain what we truly beleive. But if you are going to attack my Catholic faith because I a practicing Catholic revealed to you that I dont worship Mary, and dont follow mans traditions instead of God, and you dont believe me? Then I feel sorry for you, and will add your name to my rosary prayer and ask the living blessed Virgin Mary to Join me in prayer in heaven and pray to “Abba” Father to help us grow in understanding of what Jesus the Lord our Savior and King has revealed to his Church he himself built “On Earth As It Is In Heaven”.

Peace be with you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Have you confirmed that Doug Batchelor actually said the things that are attributed to him?

Gabriel of 12;
I can, and I have heard his message change from time to time also. In fact I have noticed a change in fire among SDA’s recently about attacks against Catholicism. I guess you can say Catholics are finally calling his public misinformed attacks and exposing them, today I have noticed his and other SDA’s are not so incriminating as before, but never the less he continues to teach his own 20th century prophecies, I quess the Real Catholic Pope is to much competition to his self proclaimed pope of SDA’s.

 

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by djconklin
To check and see if the translators got it right.

Thank you for responding vs evading like the others have done.

Forgive me; did you say you are one who is checking today if the biblical translators got it right?

Yes; for example, look at various translations of Col. 2:16-17. If they have a “what” in vs. 16 it is wrong (there’s no support for it in the Greek ) andthen in vs 17 if it doesn’t endwith “but the body of Christ” it is wrong–same reason.

That’s a pretty bold statement coming from a religion that has just come into existance since the biblical translators?

Christianity didn’t come into existance because of translators.

BTW, did you know that the Vulgate was the first translation?

 

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by djconklin
Have you confirmed that Doug Batchelor actually said the things that are attributed to him?

Gabriel of 12;
I can,

I’d love to see it.

and I have heard his message change from time to time also.

I’d like to see that too.

In fact I have noticed a change in fire among SDA’s recently about attacks against Catholicism.

I’d like to see that too.

I guess you can say Catholics are finally calling his public misinformed attacks and exposing them, today I have noticed his and other SDA’s are not so incriminating as before,

Your dropped some words in there some place.

but never the less he continues to teach his own 20th century prophecies,

Such as?

I quess the Real Catholic Pope is to much competition to his self proclaimed pope of SDA’s.

Well, for starters Doug Batchelor is not considered to be a pope–he is simply one speaker among many. Secondly, the sentance was too long (even for me!).

 

[djconklin]

What I shared with you is what Catholics practice and believe, but for some unknown reason here, you refuse to believe testimony from a practicing Catholic who has informed you,

It might help to realize that the poster is not from Amercia–so, things may be different from where you live to where she lives.

 

[happilycatholic]

So much could be said but my time is limited so this will be an abbreviated response…

Jesus is the New Covenant between God and man. The problem with the Old Covenant wasn’t the covenant…it was the Israelite’s failure to adhere to its standards (Ezekiel 20:13). Accepting and honoring the Sabbath is a sign that we truly accept God’s covenant.

As you read through the Bible, you can see clearly that only those who lovingly keep God’s commandments will be the ones who make it into His kingdom. The only way for us to fully keep God’s commandments is by allowing Jesus to work within us through the power of the Holy Spirit; we cannot do it ourselves. Jesus, alone, gives us the power but we have to be willing to receive it.

If we think that we can make up the rules as we go along, we’re no different than Cain who thought God would accept the sacrifice that he wanted to offer…not what God required. Romans 12:1-2 calls for us to be living and holy sacrifices. We can never be holy if we’re breaking God’s law.

Andrew

**Thanks for your response Bible Truth and I totally agree with everything you said. However, you really didn’t answer my question: Are there two covenants? **

**It is said that Jesus is the New Covenant, so are we to keep both the old and the new or only one? **

 

[happilycatholic]

The covenant is always between God and us based on the shed blood of His Son, Jesus Christ. The Sabbath is the seal of God and our keeping it holy as He commanded is a sign that we accept that it is He who sanctifies us and not we ourselves.

Hi DJ,

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There can only be one covenant. We are not under two covenants with God. The Blood of The Son fulfilled the Old Covenant and made perfect God’s will for us.

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**Jesus not only fulfilled the Old Covenant He became the New Covenant and therefore there are no other covenants but Jesus. **

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**I still contend that you are not keeping the Sabbath. You can’t no matter how hard you try while you claim to be Christian. It’s not possible. You can worship and rest on Saturday, but you are not keeping the Sabbath anymore than any other Christian. Anyone can do that but they are not “keeping the Sabbath”. There is much more to keeping the Sabbath “holy” than worshipping and resting. God set forth very specific ways to keep the Sabbath Holy and those have been left out of your Sabbath keeping. **

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**At some point you have to stop and realize you are either in keeping with the Old Covenant or you are in keeping with the New. It doesn’t necessarily mean worshipping on Sunday. I can go to mass on Saturday if I wish. But there are many, many things that go along with keeping the New Covenant just like there are with keeping the Old Covenant. Receiving the Eucharist is one of them. **

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Just as God said to remember Him in the Sabbath in the Old Covenant, Jesus said remember Him in the Lord’s Supper in the New Covenant.

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Do you remember Jesus by receiving Him in the Eucharist as he asked? Why do you think Jesus mirrored every aspect of the Old Covenant with aspects of His design in the New? Jesus created just as God did in the Old Covenant. Then he gave us a way to remember the Creation. Why do you continue to reject Christ’s creation?

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Just as God created new life for the world, so too did Jesus. Just as God said to remember that creation in the Sabbath, Jesus said to remember His creation in His Body and Blood. There was even a sacrifice inbetween. That too was Jesus. He left no stone unturned so that people would see HE is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, that we could no longer get in the Sabbath.

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While you see creation in the Sabbath and a covenant with God’s people in the Sabbath, we as catholics see the ultimate creation (our salvation) in Jesus and obey His command to remember him in the Eucharist.

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HC

 

[djconklin]

Are there two covenants?

It is said that Jesus is the New Covenant, so are we to keep both the old and the new or only one?

There has always only been one covenant (at a time). The new covenant is the law of the old covenant written on the heart.

 

[happilycatholic]

There has always only been one covenant (at a time). The new covenant is the law of the old covenant written on the heart.

**So how do we keep the New Covenant? **

 

[djconklin]

There can only be one covenant. We are not under two covenants with God. The Blood of The Son fulfilled the Old Covenant and made perfect God’s will for us.

See previous post.

I still contend that you are not keeping the Sabbath.

Well, where’s your proof?

You can’t no matter how hard you try while you claim to be Christian.

Why?

You can worship and rest on Saturday, but you are not keeping the Sabbath anymore than any other Christian.

That’s what you are supposed to do on the Sabbath.

There is much more to keeping the Sabbath “holy” than worshipping and resting.

Hm, that’s what the commandment says to do.

God set forth very specific ways to keep the Sabbath Holy and those have been left out of your Sabbath keeping.

Show me.

Why do you continue to reject Christ’s creation?

The Sabbath is the sign that we remember God, His creative power, and His creation.

that we could no longer get in the Sabbath.

Why not?

 

[djconklin]

So how do we keep the New Covenant?

How do you think we keep it?

 

[happilycatholic]

See previous post.

Well, where’s your proof?

Why?

That’s what you are supposed to do on the Sabbath.

Hm, that’s what the commandment says to do.

Show me.

The Sabbath is the sign that we remember God, His creative power, and His creation.

Why not?

I have a much more pressing question…how the heck do you use the little quote thingy on this site??

 

[happilycatholic]

How do you think we keep it?

I just stated how catholics keep the New Covenant. We keep it the way Christ told us to.

Now, how do you keep the New Covenant?

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**Edit: Well, that and the two most important commandments to love God and love one another.

 

[happilycatholic]

See previous post.

You didn’t answer my question there either.

Well, where’s your proof?

On Judaism101.com You should check that out.

Why?

**Because Christians can’t keep the Sabbath anymore than Jews can worship Christ and still follow the Old Laws. Christ and all the Apostles told them if they did so, it would not do them any good. **
In other words, if a Jew says he’s keeping the Sabbath but goes to church on Sunday and receives the Eucharist he’s no more Jew than you are. He is placing himself directly between the two covenants which is exactly what you are doing.
There are two things that matter here. There are two covenants and two distincly separate ways of keeping them. The old involves the Sabbath and the laws that are involved in remembering the Sabbath to keep it holy. Then there is the new and the way Christ told us to keep it.
That’s what you are supposed to do on the Sabbath.

That and much more.

Hm, that’s what the commandment says to do.

Okay, but what about what Christ to you to do to remember him?

Show me.

Again, go to the website I gave you. It will tell you all you need to know about keeping the Sabbath holy as God told his people to do.

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The Sabbath is the sign that we remember God, His creative power, and His creation.

**Really? Where does Christ say to remember His Father’s Sabbath in His resurrection? I don’t recall Christ ever saying that. **
Why not?

Because there was no SALVATION in the Sabbath. Hence the reason for Christ’s coming and resurrection. God’s people had no place in Heaven before he sent his Son to ensure they did. The Sabbath was a rememberence of the first Creation of God, not the creation of salvation through Christ.

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**Otherwise, if we had everything we needed in the Sabbath, what would be the point? So Christ gave us something we could not get in the Sabbath. **

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GRACE.

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HC

 

[djconklin]

I have a much more pressing question…how the heck do you use the little quote thingy on this site??

Ah! You type in ‘’ then the quote “quote” and then close with ‘]’. and then you close with the brackets and the “word” “/quote” in between.

You can tell the format if you type in a word then use either the B or I or U “buttons” above where you type in your response. Or, if you use the edit button after you’ve made a post–then the codes are revealed.

Hint: getting too fancy with all the colors fonts and sizes not only detracts from one’s message but it also indicates that the poster doesn’t know what they are talking about and is trying to make up for it by being “fancy”–seen this on a lot of threads and forums.

 

[happilycatholic]

Ah! You type in ‘’ then the quote “quote” and then close with ‘]’. and then you close with the brackets and the “word” “/quote” in between.

You can tell the format if you type in a word then use either the B or I or U “buttons” above where you type in your response. Or, if you use the edit button after you’ve made a post–then the codes are revealed.

Hint: getting too fancy with all the colors fonts and sizes not only detracts from one’s message but it also indicates that the poster doesn’t know what they are talking about and is trying to make up for it by being “fancy”–seen this on a lot of threads and forums.

Or it just means that you don’t know how to use the multiple quote button and you use the color to make your response stand out from the poster’s.

But hey, sometimes we ask a stupid question and get insulted for it.

Oh, and before you say you didn’t direct your response at me…I apologize for insulting you by thinking you were insulting me.

HC

 

[djconklin]

Because there was no SALVATION in the Sabbath.

Very basic misconception. But, in fact, the SDA church has never claimed that one is saved by keeping the Sabbath. In fact, the Sabbath is one commandment amongst nine, which because we break them we need to be saved. Satan only needs you to break one andthen you are lost with him–he takes you down with him.

The Sabbath was a rememberence of the first Creation of God, not the creation of salvation through Christ.

The Bible teaches otherwise. The Sabbath is a perpetual memorial to Creation and is a sign that it is God that sanctifies us (only our Creator can do that) and baptism of repentance by immersion is our symbol for dying to sin and being resurrected to newness of Llife in Him.

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Note that God said it is “my sabbaths”–not a Jewish Sabbath (there’s no such thing–except by the closet anti-semites (they may not even realize it)).

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

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I just stated how catholics keep the New Covenant.

Which post please. I must have missed it.

 

[djconklin]

Or it just means that you don’t know how to use the multiple quote button and you use the color to make your response stand out from the poster’s.

But hey, sometimes we ask a stupid question and get insulted for it.

Oh, and before you say you didn’t direct your response at me…I apologize for insulting you by thinking you were insulting me.

That’s real cute: apologize for insulting me while insulting me. We’re done.

 

[happilycatholic]

That’s real cute: apologize for insulting me while insulting me. We’re done.

Awe and before you answered my questions. How convenient.