Doug Batchelor: His Catholic Church Attacks

[andrea3710]

You know, if the SDA had a different attitude about the Catholic church they might just get a gentler response. If you guys were to say, “Hey look we think you should worship on Saturday’s not Sunday’s because of this and that,” And left it go at that we wouldn’t be so hard on you. But you call us “Whore of Babylon”, and make up all sorts of ridiculous lies about our faith. Bash us relentlessly as if your entire religion depends on the idea that Catholics are devils, and wrong about everything. So, I don’t feel sorry for you. I think most of you folks need to feel superior to others, as if out of millions, and millions of Christians who have been worshiping on Sunday since the 1st century you folks with maybe half a million followers are the only ones that got it right?? You make up such ridiculous stories like teh one I just read on your website about how St Patrick of Ireland was a "Sabbath " worshiper who started his own group of “Sabbath” converts in Ireland, but the truth about it has been suppressed”…while offering no references whatsoever to back your claims….What garbage! Your leaders must sit down and just make this stuff up as they go with no intellectual integrity at all.
Their website is:amazingfacts.org (It should be called amazinglypathetic.org)

Look,there is a difference. I do not remember anyone called you personally anything. The doctrine of the revelation as we have preach almost all protestant denominations. I do not remember ever calling you anything did I? I do not need your sorry I feel sorry for you for you show your spiritual connection with God and already that tells enough for your doctrines,you just prove the obvious… If you are so proud and knowing what you believe tell me,give me any scriptures that support your beliefs especially I addressed in my posts. It is easy to accuse and never giving any support of course Biblical for what you are actually saying probably because you got nothing you say for you are driven by hate .

You are preaching your faith with the behavior you show but as I said if that is your preaching and if that are your answers then I know I am on the right path. So it is OK for you to say anything bad against my church and we should not give any comments on what we see and think about the doctrines of your church,that we should not comment the immorality among priesthood and teachings that are not Biblical? Where is your morals…when you say that if we had different attitude we would get gentler response? So we should be quiet if something bothers us? How if you would implement that attitude in your daily life. Are you kind of person who is always right? If we said any lies prove me wrong. I do not see any proves yet.Prove me at least that there is not such a covering up of immorality among priesthood. Don’t you have any statement on that? Where did the rosary come from? No Biblical answer, just some opinions,nothing else…Where did Easter come from or Christmas,where did you come up with these dates to celebrate them? NO ANSWER! I do not want to fight here I want answers. Where did Sunday come from.where in the Bible was ever mentioned anything about worshiping on Sunday? What about mass on Latin,where did that come from and why? Also I wish to hear your doctrine on the beast and whore of Babylon,three angels message,etc… Give answers before you call someone a liar and that should be Biblical answers…

 

[andrea3710]

It’s interesting how one should take on the role of satan when it was not noted by Good Fella who was to be the subject of the reply.

Onlookers must assume the poster who felt insulted must have guilt in their heart. Otherwise Good Fella could have been just agreeing.

I would friendly ask you to keep out of this. I asked Good Fella what was that he meant by his statement and by his statement later it was clear what he meant. The more you post the more you show how weak some of you are.

 

[Bill_Pick]

BibleTruth;4983811:

Patrick,

It only negates my understand of Revelation 12 if I accept your, and thereby the SDA, interpretation of Revelation 12. I do not. We disagree on this.

Rev. 12:15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

NIV

As for verses 15-16, We know the efforts that satan went to in order to kill Jesus as an infant. Having never been in that situation I would imagine that the knowledge of what satan was trying to do would be overwhelming…much like in our daily trials we sometimes feel overwhelmed like a torrent, or tidal wave is about to overtake us…but multiplied immensely in the case of Mary, Joseph, and Jesust. The fled to Egypt for safety. For these events to be presented to John in vision…well…that must have been overwhelming for him too.

As for verse 17, I will give you my high level understanding of this and we can do deeper of course. Mary is the Mother of Jesus. On the cross Jesus gave Mary to John as his mother, and John to Mary as her son. In this act, Mary becomes mother not only to Jesus but this disciple. All who obey God’s commandments and the testimony, or teachings of Jesus, become sons and daughters of God. We both know that the Bible teaches that Jesus is our Brother.

Based on that, Mary, first as the mother of Jesus, then as the mother of John, becomes mother of all disciples and believers in Jesus. We as adopted sons and daughters of God become one family with God as our Father, Jesus as our Brother, and Mary as the Mother of us all. It is a wonderful family thing!!!

We disagree regarding the end of chapter 11 being in context with chapter 12.

As I stated earlier, I do agree with you regarding Jesus as our High Priest and that only He can mediate on our behalf before God as our High Priest. Once again, Mary is not our High Priest and that is not her role in our lives. But she does have an important and loving role in our lives!!!

I was at CUC between 1979 and 1982, and I can assure you that all of my theology professors were solid, conservative, SDAs. There were no secular scholars there. I don’t know what has happened since then, but that was not the case.

To infer that I am spiritually confused because of SDA college professors is non-sense and bogus. It is because of the solid Adventist education and training I received that it has taken me 26 years to finally see the Light and embrace the fullness of the Gospel in God’s Holy Catholic Church!

God bless all!!!

Has any one found Doug Batchelor: he is still around, I cant find him on this post for a long time,he was the thread right.

 

[happilycatholic]

I would friendly ask you to keep out of this. I asked Good Fella what was that he meant by his statement and by his statement later it was clear what he meant. The more you post the more you show how weak some of you are.

This forum is open to all. You come to a really odd place to have a personal conversation with someone.

I can comment on any post as I see fit.

Thank you.

Peace Be With You

 

[greggy53]

Look,there is a difference. I do not remember anyone called you personally anything. The doctrine of the revelation as we have preach almost all protestant denominations. I do not remember ever calling you anything did I? I do not need your sorry I feel sorry for you for you show your spiritual connection with God and already that tells enough for your doctrines,you just prove the obvious… If you are so proud and knowing what you believe tell me,give me any scriptures that support your beliefs especially I addressed in my posts. It is easy to accuse and never giving any support of course Biblical for what you are actually saying probably because you got nothing you say for you are driven by hate .

You are preaching your faith with the behavior you show but as I said if that is your preaching and if that are your answers then I know I am on the right path. So it is OK for you to say anything bad against my church and we should not give any comments on what we see and think about the doctrines of your church,that we should not comment the immorality among priesthood and teachings that are not Biblical? Where is your morals…when you say that if we had different attitude we would get gentler response? So we should be quiet if something bothers us? How if you would implement that attitude in your daily life. Are you kind of person who is always right? If we said any lies prove me wrong. I do not see any proves yet.Prove me at least that there is not such a covering up of immorality among priesthood. Don’t you have any statement on that? Where did the rosary come from? No Biblical answer, just some opinions,nothing else…Where did Easter come from or Christmas,where did you come up with these dates to celebrate them? NO ANSWER! I do not want to fight here I want answers. Where did Sunday come from.where in the Bible was ever mentioned anything about worshiping on Sunday? What about mass on Latin,where did that come from and why? Also I wish to hear your doctrine on the beast and whore of Babylon,three angels message,etc… Give answers before you call someone a liar and that should be Biblical answers…

No one has asked me where the tradition of praying the rosary came from. I know where the prayers prayed in the rosary came from; holy scripture “Our Father who art in heaven”…sound familiar?, or how about “Hail Mary full of grace”…thats in the bible too…Thats the rosary my friend, it came from the scriptures… But you people keep missing the main point here. You keep thumping your bibles at us, and you don’t understand that it’s OUR bible, we had it long before you,we know it better, our leaders have the holy Spirit to help interpret it, and the holy Mass, and all the sacraments testify to it. And while you are trashing us, (I already gave the address to the website where the SDA trash us) you turn our bible into some kind of oracle. But the church IS the Pillar and foundation of truth…Thats in the bible too. We rely on the authority of the God’s church, and apostolic tradition (Where Easter and Christmas come from), not just the bible. Bottom line is we don’t recognize your authority to interpret the scriptures, therefore your screwball interpretations, visions, false prophesy, and dietary laws mean nothing to the Christian faith.

 

[Soutane]

Look,there is a difference. I do not remember anyone called you personally anything. The doctrine of the revelation as we have preach almost all protestant denominations. I do not remember ever calling you anything did I? I do not need your sorry I feel sorry for you for you show your spiritual connection with God and already that tells enough for your doctrines,you just prove the obvious… If you are so proud and knowing what you believe tell me,give me any scriptures that support your beliefs especially I addressed in my posts. It is easy to accuse and never giving any support of course Biblical for what you are actually saying probably because you got nothing you say for you are driven by hate .

You are preaching your faith with the behavior you show but as I said if that is your preaching and if that are your answers then I know I am on the right path. So it is OK for you to say anything bad against my church and we should not give any comments on what we see and think about the doctrines of your church,that we should not comment the immorality among priesthood and teachings that are not Biblical? Where is your morals…when you say that if we had different attitude we would get gentler response? So we should be quiet if something bothers us? How if you would implement that attitude in your daily life. Are you kind of person who is always right? If we said any lies prove me wrong. I do not see any proves yet.Prove me at least that there is not such a covering up of immorality among priesthood. Don’t you have any statement on that? Where did the rosary come from? No Biblical answer, just some opinions,nothing else…Where did Easter come from or Christmas,where did you come up with these dates to celebrate them? NO ANSWER! I do not want to fight here I want answers. Where did Sunday come from.where in the Bible was ever mentioned anything about worshiping on Sunday? What about mass on Latin,where did that come from and why? Also I wish to hear your doctrine on the beast and whore of Babylon,three angels message,etc… Give answers before you call someone a liar and that should be Biblical answers…

Andrea when SDAs(or anyone)attack the True Faith of Christianity-The Catholic Church it is an attack upon EVERY professing Catholic.We ARE our Faith.We ARE the Body of Christ.
We perceive it as a personal attack because it could NOT BE any more personal.
I personally have no time for the cult of Seventh Day Adventism as to even enter into discussions with them has a tendency to make my blood boil and to be a near occassion of sin.
If you want to follow the bleatings of a brain damaged false prophetess who could never prophesy accurately
and who could not even follow the strictures of her own made-up faith go right ahead but hold onto your hat when you attack Catholicism,because then you attack US.It is absolutely pathetic that so much of SDAism is based upon the hatred,slander and libel of another Faith,especially the True one.
Come out of the darkness and into the Light of the Pillar and Foundation of Truth,the Holy Catholic Church.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Any Gentile who joined also had to be circumcised.

1. The Sabbath was made long before there ever was a Jew.
2. Any Gentile who joined also had to keep the Sabbath.
3. The commandment explicity states that any “stranger within thy gates” (whether Jew or not) had to keep the Sabbath.
4. In over 100 languages (created at the Tower of Babel) the name of the seventh day of the week is known as “sabbath.”
5. Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man, not just the Jews.

The first, yes; as for the Sabbath most Christians at least as late as the 5th century kept the Sabbath.

No one has ever claimed that they were.

I,m canfused is this thread about Doug Batchelor:,Mary or sunday worship.

 

[andrea3710]

This forum is open to all. You come to a really odd place to have a personal conversation with someone.

I can comment on any post as I see fit.

Thank you.

Peace Be With You

Yes you can but you were asked not to for this is not between you and me and if I am not mistaken you said you will not have any discussions with me. Was that you who said that or not so please keep your promise.

 

[Soutane]

Yes you can but you were asked not to for this is not between you and me and if I am not mistaken you said you will not have any discussions with me. Was that you who said that or not so please keep your promise.

Perhaps he changed his mind.That is not only a woman’s perogative.

 

[Soutane]

I,m canfused is this thread about Doug Batchelor:,Mary or sunday worship.

It’s about SDAism SCREAMING “I hate Catholicism,because if it is correct that means SDAism is wrong”.

Very threatening to members of that eclaisial body.

 

[andrea3710]

Andrea when SDAs(or anyone)attack the True Faith of Christianity-The Catholic Church it is an attack upon EVERY professing Catholic.We ARE our Faith.We ARE the Body of Christ.
We perceive it as a personal attack because it could NOT BE any more personal.
I personally have no time for the cult of Seventh Day Adventism as to even enter into discussions with them has a tendency to make my blood boil and to be a near occassion of sin.
If you want to follow the bleatings of a brain damaged false prophetess who could never prophesy accurately
and who could not even follow the strictures of her own made-up faith go right ahead but hold onto your hat when you attack Catholicism,because then you attack US.It is absolutely pathetic that so much of SDAism is based upon the hatred,slander and libel of another Faith,especially the True one.
Come out of the darkness and into the Light of the Pillar and Foundation of Truth,the Holy Catholic Church.

If you are all that you say then you are responsible for immorality in the church of yours. We see all these as I already mentioned priests who abused children and church covered it up. Will you take the blame for that too? Is not a false prophet who listens to your sins and plays God by forgiving other people’s sins and at the same time doing crime ? By your statement you take the blame and you are responsible as well,is that what you are saying? Again and again,if I address you on something ans ask you to prove your statements and you fail to do that what makes me a liar and what makes you the right one? Do you know the history of protestantism ? You bet your blood boils it will boil even more soon.

 

[andrea3710]

Perhaps he changed his mind.That is not only a woman’s perogative.

Yes, we see that too in the church,they change minds and apologize a lot. Runs in family I guess

 

[andrea3710]

I suppose John “subtly incorporated” through Satanic agency the ritual of baptism as Jesus had played the devil’s advocate by adopting the pre-Christian use of sacramentals.

There is Biblical baptism and non biblical baptism and I am not sure should we call the sprinkling baptism for baptism means immersion. So let us see where does sprinkling come from, Bible or tradition?
If lexiconagraphers, scholars and church historians proclaim that baptism means immersion then where did sprinkling and pouring come from? In a word, they originated out of tradition. In 251 A.D. a man by the name of Novation lay sick in bed unable to get up for immersion, and was thus sprinkled with water, but only upon the promise that if he were to recover he would be immersed. Later, having fully recovered, Notation refused to be immersed in water. When he was seeking the office of bishop many were against his ordination because he had been “Merely sprinkled and had not been wholly immersed in water, in the ancient method” (Historical Commentary, Mosheim, vol. I, p. 62). Thus came sprinkling as Novation’s innovation of baptism.
Historically, it took many years for sprinkling and pouring to gain wide acceptance. According to Brenner, the Catholic scholar, "For thirteen hundred years was baptism an immersion of the person under water". Official recognition wasn't given to sprinkling until 1311 A.D. at the Council of Ravenna, "Baptism is to be administered by trine immersion or aspersion [sprinkling, DRV]". Aspersion helped widen the rift between the Roman and Eastern Catholic church. The Eastern Church would not accept the Western practice of sprinkling or pouring instead of immersion. Thus, they tended to reject all those not truly baptized. Deylingius says, "The Greeks retain the rite of immersion to this day, as Jeremiah, the patriarch of Constantinople, declares" (Booth on Baptism, p. 93). Evidently the Greek Orthodox Church had a better understanding of their native tongue. If Greeks don't know the meaning of the Greek word "baptidzo" then who does?

 

[andrea3710]

It’s about SDAism SCREAMING “I hate Catholicism,because if it is correct that means SDAism is wrong”.

Very threatening to members of that eclaisial body.

I can tell for myself,I do not hate Catholic people for I have them in my family and among many friends and colleagues and we are getting along well. What I do not like is the doctrine that is not based on Bible,I do not like the past of the church and the things that had been done,I especially dislike that priests get involved in politics and lobby for corrupted politicians,I hate the cover ups and protection of child abusers . Who hates whom is obvious by statements and insults some of you treat us with.

 

[josie_L]

It looks like you need some education. I do not have time to give any lessons so I would advise you if you interested to go and study.Many doctors today are almost quoting E.White when it comes to diet. Week or two ago it was all over the news and media about the red meat. What they said about the red meat caused that our local TV stations stopped giving commercials on scientific data on how the red meat is good and we should eat it thus proving my suspicions-that many industries pay to scientist and media to give false statement so people would buy whatever these people call healthy,on this one they were finally exposed. When something is commercialized too often then one should be suspicious…Milk for an example…it deprives you of calcium more than it gives you but we see so many models with milk traces above their lip…
Cancer is due to destruction of immune system. How you feed and treat each one of your body cells it is how healthy you will be. Person can be obese and still be malnutritioned because he/she eats empty calories…SDA’s have many retreat centers that helped people fight cancer without use of any chemotherapy. Being a nurse and watching what chemotherapy does I would never use it myself,it may help to some but in the most cases it helps only for a short time.
Of course that along with the healthy diet one needs to stay out of stress , medications, alcohol,cigarettes,food additives…etc…Do you know that cancer feeds on sugar? Sugar is not good for use…E.White said that long time ago,doctors say it today…I could go on and on but I will continue hopefully tomorrow.
Person here posted how we SDA’s must be very sad people,but I can tell you how many happy Catholics I have on chemotherapy and they curse God for their fate in every other word.
I have lots of nuns as my patients too but they go to chemo for they are probably not sure in heaven after death,who would know…One would think that if you believe in heaven after death,that he/she would hurry there.

More funny stuff, please read:

Is a diet of “fruits, grains, and vegetables” the healthiest for Christians? Will it reduce disease and lead to a healthier, longer life?

Cancer - Some Adventists have claimed that studies on Seventh-day Adventists prove that eating meat causes cancer. However, there are many other factors involved besides diet. For example, Adventists do not smoke or drink coffee. Dr. Stephen Byrnes writes:

"The Mormons are a religious group often overlooked in vegetarian studies. Although their Church urges moderation, Mormons do not abstain from meat. As with the Adventists, Mormons also avoid tobacco, alcohol and caffeine. Despite being meat-eaters, Utah Mormons showed in a study that they had a 22% lower rate for cancer in general and a 34% lower mortality rate for colon cancer than the US average. A study of Puerto Ricans, who eat large amounts of fatty pork, nevertheless revealed very low rates of colon and breast cancer. Similar results can be adduced to demonstrate that meat and animal fat consumption does not correlate with cancer. Obviously, other factors are at work.
"It is usually claimed that vegetarians have lower cancer rates than meat-eaters, but a 1994 study of vegetarian California Seventh Day Adventists showed that, while they did have lower rates for some cancers (e.g., breast and lung), they had higher rates for several others (Hodgkin’s disease, malignant melanoma, brain, skin, uterine, prostate, endometrial, cervical and ovarian), some quite significantly. In that study, the authors actually admitted that ‘Meat consumption, however, was not associated with a higher [cancer] risk’ and that ‘No significant association between breast cancer and a high consumption of animal fats or animal products in general was noted’."6

1. Stephen Byrnes, M.D., “The Myths of Vegetarianism”, Nexus Magazine, Vol. 9, No. 3, Apr-May 2002.

 

[andrea3710]

More funny stuff, please read:

Is a diet of “fruits, grains, and vegetables” the healthiest for Christians? Will it reduce disease and lead to a healthier, longer life?

Cancer - Some Adventists have claimed that studies on Seventh-day Adventists prove that eating meat causes cancer. However, there are many other factors involved besides diet. For example, Adventists do not smoke or drink coffee. Dr. Stephen Byrnes writes:

"The Mormons are a religious group often overlooked in vegetarian studies. Although their Church urges moderation, Mormons do not abstain from meat. As with the Adventists, Mormons also avoid tobacco, alcohol and caffeine. Despite being meat-eaters, Utah Mormons showed in a study that they had a 22% lower rate for cancer in general and a 34% lower mortality rate for colon cancer than the US average. A study of Puerto Ricans, who eat large amounts of fatty pork, nevertheless revealed very low rates of colon and breast cancer. Similar results can be adduced to demonstrate that meat and animal fat consumption does not correlate with cancer. Obviously, other factors are at work.
"It is usually claimed that vegetarians have lower cancer rates than meat-eaters, but a 1994 study of vegetarian California Seventh Day Adventists showed that, while they did have lower rates for some cancers (e.g., breast and lung), they had higher rates for several others (Hodgkin’s disease, malignant melanoma, brain, skin, uterine, prostate, endometrial, cervical and ovarian), some quite significantly. In that study, the authors actually admitted that ‘Meat consumption, however, was not associated with a higher [cancer] risk’ and that ‘No significant association between breast cancer and a high consumption of animal fats or animal products in general was noted’."6

1. Stephen Byrnes, M.D., “The Myths of Vegetarianism”, Nexus Magazine, Vol. 9, No. 3, Apr-May 2002.

I would partially agree with you. Not eating meat and not substituting it with other quality food is detrimental to health. I have those who witness that their health improved when they changed their diet and all the scientist can give some of the false statements like they do about the milk when there are people who won the battle over cancer only with the right diet. Don’t you think that God knows best what is right for people to eat? Do you remember what was the original diet right he created a man? Or example of Daniel? Read Daniel 1;12-He was on vegetarian diet. I was in perfect shape and health when I was on vegan diet now that I use sugary food and have no time to eat and hurry all the time I see that my health is not as good. I was never tired and could endure more than many professional body builders could,so this comes from my personal experience.

 

[andrea3710]

Cancer - Some Adventists have claimed that studies on Seventh-day Adventists prove that eating meat causes cancer. However, there are many other factors involved besides diet. For example, Adventists do not smoke or drink coffee. Dr. Stephen Byrnes writes:

First,I did not know that National Geographic belonged to SDA’s
Second…Researchers tracked 34,000 Seventh-Day Adventists in California beginning in the 1980s.3 After 12 years, they linked the subjects’ consumption of nuts five to six times per week to a longer-than-average life expectancy. Frequent nut consumers lived 1.5 to 2.5 years longer than nut avoiders, controlling for other factors. This could be due to the protective fatty acids, excellent mineral content, wealth of phytonutrients, or the impressive overall profile of nuts as a regular part of a healthful diet.
My aunt lived 94 years and my mum’s granny lived 91 by the way she was herbalist. She was never sick and never needed a doctor. You can’t say that this are not nice years…

 

[Soutane]

I KNEW that I should have ignored this train-wreck of a thread but I just could not resist.In defending my faith I have been advised by a loving SDA adherent that "You bet your blood boils it will boil even more soon."A hardly subtle reference to my impending damnation as a Catholic.I suggest that you read the rules of conduct here if you expect to be permitted to post here.Your poisonous post speaks volumes about you and the faith that you subscribe to.

 

[andrea3710]

Similar results can be adduced to demonstrate that meat and animal fat consumption does not correlate with cancer.

Strong evidence

Lead researcher Professor Sheila Bingham, of the MRC Dunn Human Nutrition Unit in Cambridge, said: "People have suspected for some time that high levels of red and processed meat increase risk of bowel cancer, but this is one of the largest studies worldwide and the first from Europe of this type to show a strong relationship."Professor Bingham said there were several theories about why red meat should increase the risk of bowel cancer. …
Have you read about dioxin a little bit,additives and such. One does not have to get cancer but other diseases. They use carbon monoxide to cover up freshness of the meat,so you could have a “corpse” who is full of bacteria and already started to decay but it still has that red and fresh color…Yuck

 

[andrea3710]

I KNEW that I should have ignored this train-wreck of a thread but I just could not resist.In defending my faith I have been advised by a loving SDA adherent that "You bet your blood boils it will boil even more soon."A hardly subtle reference to my impending damnation as a Catholic.I suggest that you read the rules of conduct here if you expect to be permitted to post here.Your poisonous post speaks volumes about you and the faith that you subscribe to.

Your damnation or whatever you may call it will come only if you want it. If you are person who is easy to react on things and this are your own words that your blood boils not mine, it will boil more with the statements of truth and revelation of untruth so if your blood can’t stand it maybe it would be healthy for you to avoid the discussion. People are damned only because of their own doings. I see here in your posts your blood boiled some more.Please do not put your words in my mouth please and give it the meaning not intended,OK? Impending damnation as a Catholic,when did I ever say that??? If you want me to comment on that I can tell you that there can be impending damnation as anything not only as a Catholic.Your damnation has nothing to do with me it is totally in your hands and your relationship with God.There is only One God and He decides who will be damned and who will not,I am not willing to take that roll.