Dr. Sam Bacchiocchi

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Greetings friends!

I just want to let you know that I haven’t forgotten you.

I’ll put additional postings in the near future.

However, I want to wish all of you Happy Sabbath!

God’s blessings be with you!

Pastor Moon
 
Your interpretation vs. our’s. What I call the second biggest lie of Protestantism is framing the issue as if it’s Catholicism vs. the Bible instead of some Protestant group’s interpretation.
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That is a very important point. Adventists, and others, need to realise that their interpretation is just that - an interpretation. Not what the Bible says, but an interpretation of it. If they accept that, they can see that other people are not rejecting the Bible, but also interpreting it. And then dialogue is more open.

God bless,
Stephen
 
Pastor Moon,
I would encourage you and the others on this board to pick one topic at a time and discuss them. In this post alone you ask about or reference statues, the 1st commandment, purgatory, priesthood, confession, etc. There is no way to give an appropriate response within the length limits of the post. There are many people on this board who would love to dicuss this further, so I do hope that we can. Is there one topic above another that is troubling you?
pastormoon said:
In response to the above 3 emails:

Greetings in Christ!

It troubles me to see jim1130 making an issue out of the two quotes in my earlier postings.

Quotes are supposed to be quoted! You can’t change what the person said if you are quoting someone. I quoted these two very significant quotes and jim1130 decided to make an issue out of the way how I quoted rather than responding to these quotes.

I believe what brother jim1130 did was to cut and paste the links without giving any Biblically basis in his own words. Of course I encourage him to quote from knowledgeable people but most importantly I encourage him to quote more from the Scripture.

Dear brother amills, it is good to know that Catholics don’t pray to the statues and images. Some of my Catholic friends told me that they do and I thought all the Catholics do pray to the statutes and images. Thank you for the clarification and I’ll mention to others that Catholics don’t pray to the statutes or the images.

I have a one question: If we, God fearing people don’t need to pray to the statues or the images or worship them why did we create so many statutes and images. Why don’t we follow what the Bible say: “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.” (Exodus 20:4)

One more question to amills, I am wondering whether you could show me from the Bible that earthly priest is someone who can forgive people’s sins! I am well aware of the earthly sanctuary mentioned in the Bible and know quite well that even previous earthly priests, including Aaron the high priest didn’t have the authority to forgive sins. Could you show me from the Bible where God says that we should confess our sins to man and not to God?

What about the idea of Purgatory! Can you prove from the Bible that it was mentioned and proved somewhere in the Bible about the idea of Purgatory. Because I tried to find it but could not find it.

What about the idea of the Immortality of the soul?

What about the idea of Prayers for the dead, the belief that our prayers make a difference with God in relieving suffering souls from the bondage of purgatory?

Regardless, I look forward to that day when we shall see Jesus and live forever with Him in heaven.

See you in heaven brothers and sisters when Jesus comes.

Thank you for reading my posts and I’ll try to visit in the future again.

Blessings to you!

Love in Christ,

Pastor Moon
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SDA2RC:
Pastor Moon, I would encourage you and the others on this board to pick one topic at a time and discuss them. In this post alone you ask about or reference statues, the 1st commandment, purgatory, priesthood, confession, etc. There is no way to give an appropriate response within the length limits of the post. There are many people on this board who would love to discuss this further, so I do hope that we can. Is there one topic above another that is troubling you?
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Pastor Moon:
Greetings in Christ!

It troubles me to see jim1130 making an issue out of the two quotes in my earlier postings.

Quotes are supposed to be quoted! You can’t change what the person said if you are quoting someone. I quoted these two very significant quotes and jim1130 decided to make an issue out of the way how I quoted rather than responding to these quotes.
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You are unable to see the forest through the trees. So, what abut the quotes? Were they said? Obviously, but Past Moon applied the term “very significant.” Are they significant? Obviously by the SDA site and misguided standards, but are the opinions infallible? No. Therefore, why exert a lot of time and energy on the quotes? Pastor Moon wants to obsess on them, but, ironically, it is not as if Pastor Moon did scholarly research to locate the quotes. He merely referred to an SDA site and basically hurled a challenge to Catholics to disprove the quotes. The point I made, of which Pastor Moon chooses to ignore, is this: The quotes come from the same worn-out, re-tread SDA anti-Catholic hodge-podge site prevalent in the SDA community. Were they said? Yes, but so what?
Pastor Moon:
I believe what brother jim1130 did was to cut and paste the links without giving any Biblically basis in his own words. Of course I encourage him to quote from knowledgeable people but most importantly I encourage him to quote more from the Scripture.
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Go to Post # 31.
Pastor Moon:
Dear brother amills, it is good to know that Catholics don’t pray to the statues and images. Some of my Catholic friends told me that they do and I thought all the Catholics do pray to the statutes and images. Thank you for the clarification and I’ll mention to others that Catholics don’t pray to the statutes or the images.

I have a one question: If we, God fearing people don’t need to pray to the statues or the images or worship them why did we create so many statutes and images. Why don’t we follow what the Bible say: “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.” (Exodus 20:4)
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What does it matter, then, now that it has been explained to you?
Pastor Moon:
One more question to amills, I am wondering whether you could show me from the Bible that earthly priest is someone who can forgive people’s sins! I am well aware of the earthly sanctuary mentioned in the Bible and know quite well that even previous earthly priests, including Aaron the high priest didn’t have the authority to forgive sins. Could you show me from the Bible where God says that we should confess our sins to man and not to God?
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John 20:22-23: “And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’”
Pastor Moon:
What about the idea of Purgatory! Can you prove from the Bible that it was mentioned and proved somewhere in the Bible about the idea of Purgatory. Because I tried to find it but could not find it.
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Here is a current discussion on Purgatory. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1680905#post1680905
Spend some of your own energy and do some of your own research on this site.
Pastor Moon:
What about the idea of the Immortality of the soul?

What about the idea of Prayers for the dead, the belief that our prayers make a difference with God in relieving suffering souls from the bondage of purgatory?

Regardless, I look forward to that day when we shall see Jesus and live forever with Him in heaven.

See you in heaven brothers and sisters when Jesus comes.

Thank you for reading my posts and I’ll try to visit in the future again.

Blessings to you!

Love in Christ,

Pastor Moon
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The fact that you try to avalanche Catholics with these questions, without reading responses or even doing a search on this forum, instead relying on worn-out and ignroant SDA anti-Catholic Web sites, makes me suspect of your sincerity about Catholicism.
 
Pastor Moon:
Quotes are supposed to be quoted! You can’t change what the person said if you are quoting someone. I quoted these two very significant quotes and jim1130 decided to make an issue out of the way how I quoted rather than responding to these quotes.
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Pastor Moon chooses to assign the term “very significant” to the quotes, but they are opinions and are NOT infallible. Since Pastor Moon opts to quote from fallible sources, I will provide doctrine from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a3.htm#I) along with the footnotes.

2173 The Gospel reports many incidents when Jesus was accused of violating the sabbath law. But Jesus never fails to respect the holiness of this day.98 He gives this law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."99 With compassion, Christ declares the sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing.100 The sabbath is the day of the Lord of mercies and a day to honor God.101 "The Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath."102

98 Cf. Mk 1:21; Jn 9:16.
99 Mk 2:27.
100 Cf. Mk 3:4.
101 Cf. Mt 12:5; Jn 7:23.
102 Mk 2:28.

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the “first day,” the day of Christ’s Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the “eighth day” following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ’s Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord’s Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:
We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106

104 Cf. Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1.
105 Cf. Mk 16:1; Mt 28:1.
106 St. Justin, I Apol. 67:PG 6,429 and 432.

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord’s Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

107 Cf. 1 Cor 10:11.
108 St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn. 9,1:SCh 10,88.

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

109 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II,122,4.

2177 The Sunday celebration of the Lord’s Day and his Eucharist is at the heart of the Church’s life. "Sunday is the day on which the paschal mystery is celebrated in light of the apostolic tradition and is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church."110
"Also to be observed are the day of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension of Christ, the feast of the Body and Blood of Christi, the feast of Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, the feast of Saint Joseph, the feast of the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul, and the feast of All Saints."111
110 CIC, can. 1246 § 1.
111 CIC, can. 1246 § 2: “The conference of bishops can abolish certain holy days of obligation or transfer them to a Sunday with prior approval of the Apostolic See.”

2178 This practice of the Christian assembly dates from the beginnings of the apostolic age.112 The Letter to the Hebrews reminds the faithful "not to neglect to meet together, as is the habit of some, but to encourage one another."113
Tradition preserves the memory of an ever-timely exhortation: Come to Church early, approach the Lord, and confess your sins, repent in prayer. . . . Be present at the sacred and divine liturgy, conclude its prayer and do not leave before the dismissal. . . . We have often said: "This day is given to you for prayer and rest. This is the day that the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it."114

112 Cf. Acts 2:42-46; 1 Cor 11:17.
113 Heb 10:25.
114 Sermo de die dominica 2 et 6:PG 86/1,416C and 421C.
 
Hey Pastor Moon:

You ask: Why do you have to take it so personally when all you have to do is to show the truth from the Scripture?

Whose interpretation of Scripture shall we discuss; Luther, Calvin, Zwingi or that poor unfortunate woman who had a head injury E. G. White? I haven’t read completely through this thread and don’t have time just now to finish it so it is possible that someone found the time to answer you however if not I will be happy to have a discussion with you via email if you would like. I think that people give you urls to read because it takes so much time to unpack the charges that you c/p from web sites and these charges have been answered and answered and…. If you would like to try your best with the sister of an Adventist you may email me at bethsgram@sbcglobal.net. If you are like the other Adventist who took this challenge you’ll eventually go away mad. People don’t like to lose.

Donna
 
danielsgram said:
Hey Pastor Moon:

You ask: Why do you have to take it so personally when all you have to do is to show the truth from the Scripture?

Whose interpretation of Scripture shall we discuss; Luther, Calvin, Zwingi or that poor unfortunate woman who had a head injury E. G. White? I haven’t read completely through this thread and don’t have time just now to finish it so it is possible that someone found the time to answer you however if not I will be happy to have a discussion with you via email if you would like. I think that people give you urls to read because it takes so much time to unpack the charges that you c/p from web sites and these charges have been answered and answered and…. If you would like to try your best with the sister of an Adventist you may email me at bethsgram@sbcglobal.net. If you are like the other Adventist who took this challenge you’ll eventually go away mad. People don’t like to lose.

Donna
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Thinking about what Pastor Moon and other SDAs on this site have written (actually, just cut-and-pasted from the exact same Web site) makes me I think about the Jack Nicholson line from the movie “A Few Good Men”.

“The truth? You can’t handle the truth.”

Good luck with Pastor Moon.
 
ooops Pastor Moon. My other email address is sbcglobal, the one I gave you is wrong. You may email me at bethsgram@yahoo.com for a discussion regarding the SDA.
 
jim1130,

Have you ever read the book “The Great Controversy” compiled by Ellen White. In the book she gives a version of history in which she describes the history of the Church. Almost every page is filled with how the Catholic Church has been decieved by Satan and how they teach heresy after heresy. She writes of the courageous people who defy the “Romanish” people and the “Papists”. She tells how the leaders of the Church live lives of luxury while decieving the people. In the book she explains the errors of infallibility, Idolatry and how the Catholics eliminated the second commandment, selling of indulgences, how the Waldenses perserved the faith and kept the Sabbath, and on and on. She talks of the courage it took to defy such a power as the Catholic Church.

To an ordinary person the book may seem very convincing. Then you have all the Adventist liturature that follows. The people teaching this stuff appear to be highly, holy, moral people who sincerely believe this information.

Unfortunately, as historical documents prove - Ellen’s book as well as much of the Adventist liturature is lies. Pastor Moon has probably never had reason before to question it. In all honesty he probably feels he is exposing heresies. Hopefully we can guide him to liturature - such as early church fathers and official church documents so that he may also come to know the factual history of the church.

I think perhaps you are too harsh with Pastor Moon. As SDR2RC explained - he should makes several threads to address the issues. He has overwhelming issues as he expressed and each requires more explaination that can be simply addressed.

One of my employees pointed out to me that she was always taught never to question the pastor of her church. They were holy and told to believe whatever was taught. On the contrary, I was taught I could question the Catholic Church as much as I wanted but I should be also willing to dig far enough to get to the truth. Hopefully Pastor Moon will be willing to dig.
 
Hi Jim:

You: Good luck with Pastor Moon.

Me: Thanks. I started a snail mail discussion with my sister a year ago last October. I asked her to take one charge at a time but I would be willing to reply to any and all charges that she had. I sent a reply to her first charge or rather charges plural she just couldn’t help herself. 🙂 I am still waiting for her rebuttal.

Donna
 
amills said:
jim1130,

Have you ever read the book “The Great Controversy” compiled by Ellen White. In the book she gives a version of history in which she describes the history of the Church. Almost every page is filled with how the Catholic Church has been decieved by Satan and how they teach heresy after heresy. She writes of the courageous people who defy the “Romanish” people and the “Papists”. She tells how the leaders of the Church live lives of luxury while decieving the people. In the book she explains the errors of infallibility, Idolatry and how the Catholics eliminated the second commandment, selling of indulgences, how the Waldenses perserved the faith and kept the Sabbath, and on and on. She talks of the courage it took to defy such a power as the Catholic Church.

To an ordinary person the book may seem very convincing. Then you have all the Adventist liturature that follows. The people teaching this stuff appear to be highly, holy, moral people who sincerely believe this information.

Unfortunately, as historical documents prove - Ellen’s book as well as much of the Adventist liturature is lies. Pastor Moon has probably never had reason before to question it. In all honesty he probably feels he is exposing heresies. Hopefully we can guide him to liturature - such as early church fathers and official church documents so that he may also come to know the factual history of the church.

I think perhaps you are too harsh with Pastor Moon. As SDR2RC explained - he should makes several threads to address the issues. He has overwhelming issues as he expressed and each requires more explaination that can be simply addressed.

One of my employees pointed out to me that she was always taught never to question the pastor of her church. They were holy and told to believe whatever was taught. On the contrary, I was taught I could question the Catholic Church as much as I wanted but I should be also willing to dig far enough to get to the truth. Hopefully Pastor Moon will be willing to dig.
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Your kind and generous comments are appreciated, and I acknowledge the harshness of my tone. I get passonate because I have interacted with individuals from the SDA Church, such as Pastor Moon, on this site who do not seem to internalize the information presented to them, much like the person to whom you are introduced who promptly forgets your name because the person is thinking of what to say next.

Pastor Moon and others rely on snippets of information, which is akin to painting a glorious sunset landscape picture using on black-and-white paint. You exhibit much more patience, kindness, and willigness to me so perhaps it is probably better for me to read (lurk) than interact.

Again, thank you for holding me accoutable. yes, it is true you catch more with molasses than vinegar.

Jim
 
Stephen_Korsman said:
Who is Pastor Moon?

I doubt he’s Jerry Moon of Andrew’s University - he’d go about this in a more scholarly way. Perhaps a relative? Moon isn’t the most common surname, at least in my experience.
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As someone who spent some time as a theology major at an Adventist University, it wouldn’t surprise me if Pastor Moon was a professor! I had professors with doctoral degrees in theology and church history telling their upper level classes the same lies and distorted information that Pastor Moon is quoting. When called on it most just refused to address the issue or deflected the conversation. One, single, honest professor admitted he knew better but that he had to teach it that way or lose his job.

I started researching myself, trying to prove the prophecy timelines myself , trying to hang onto my adventist identity,and ended up studying myself right out of the school and the denomination.

Adventists take it all for granted, the Adventist versions of history and bible interpretation. I sat through a hundred sermons on the prophecy timelines and how all the dates ‘work out perfectly’’. I never questioned it.

If you sit down with some real history books and a calculator, guess what? You find out that you’ve been betrayed. You feel stupid for never adding it up yourself. You wonder why someone doesn’t DO SOMETHING, ugh. Unfortunately twisting scripture and distorting history isn’t a crime.

MarysRoses
 
Read Rome’s Challenge: Why Do Protestants Keep Sunday? It’s a compilation of articles from the Catholic Mirror regarding this issue. In it, the Roman Catholic Church states that it changed the Biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday. Read it and decide for yourselves which is the real Sabbath.
 
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