Drag show at Catholic University

[Elizium23]

It entered in post #8 where Holly talks about the bishop stripping the university of its right to call itself ‘Catholic.’

No it didn’t. Holly’s suggestion pertains to an association of Catholics who are bound by Canon Law. You are the only one who is trying to expand this discussion outside of that purview.

 

[johnmann]

So what? It’s not inherently sinful for a man to wear lipstick. Would this show be acceptable on Halloween? If it also included people dressed in animal costumes?

 

[CaptFun]

Top ten explanations (justifications?) for this. Under the umbrella of – perhaps.

PERHAPS:

1. It’s just comedy. Like when the Three Stooges or Laurel and Hardy dressed as women.
   Patently ridiculous and JUST played for a laugh.
2. They are being hazed by a fraternity to dress up in an embarrasing way. Like Major
   League Baseball teams do to rookies. (A recent MLB prank: rookies clothes taken.
   women’s clothes substituted. He had to catch the bus with the clothes left him).
3. With all the preferential treatment females get, a couple of guys lost it and figured
   “… if you can’t beat 'em, join 'em.” Then too, maybe this was “old school” night:
   USD opened in 1952 as “San Diego College for Women.”
4. It is a good way to attract the attention of a campus’ (seeming mandatory) LGBTQ
   faculty members and wrapping up a few “easy A’s” to pad your GPA for grad school.
5. On some campuses this project is good for 3 units in Sociology and a good head start
   on a Doctor’s Thesis in abnormal psychology.
6. Given the rebellious nature of college students - maybe these were GOOD Catholic
   students just trying to demonstrate the good sense of: Deuteronomy 22:5: “A woman
   shall not wear an article proper to a man, nor shall a man put on a
   woman’s dress; for anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD,
   your God.” – in an admittedly unfortunate way.
7. The antics of LGBTQ folk are still too much for most Catholic College students, but
   the Moderate Social Justice Club decided to perform the transvestite drag show as
   an “outreach” and to combat the “historical prejudice of the Church” against
   “oppressed minorities”.
8. A new class of Pell Grant, for transvestites is rumored to be cleared in the next wave
   of Presidential Executive Orders. And as the “soon to be newest protected class” by
   the EEOC, certain transvestite set asides for government jobs are expected to be
   available to qualifying graduates.
9. The popularization of men dressing as women looks to be a boon for the “plus size
   women’s” clothing industry," ensuring more union jobs to the area.
10. One undergraduate has filed suit against the University for being “denied a decent
    transvestite wardrobe and appropriate accoutrements necessary for the four years
    of study.”

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

“Send Forth Thy Spirit” - USD School Motto in English

Then again: PERHAPS Catholic Universities should screen their applicants more closely. Or their current students.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR63oiJuxZhr2qsNYg58_FXljxi9hgkn6Bw_zn_a1JshQ040tkRYg

 

[TarkanAttila]

Captain Fun, I wondered about that myself. Reading the article:

The controversy has divided USD students down the middle. On one side is the student-run PRIDE group, which is made up of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and questioning students who are saying that all views should be celebrated. The other is a student group saying a drag show has no business on a Catholic campus.

It’s difficult to trace the context, but it does indeed seem to be a gay pride celebrating sort of event.

I think drag can be funny. Monty Python men dressed as old biddies are hilarious. But if it’s trying to send a message… it shouldn’t be one promoting gay lifestyles, or sodomy, or sapphism.

Hm; maybe the Catholic students should join in and screw with the “pride” message.

 

[CaptFun]

Captain Fun, I wondered about that myself. Reading the article:

It’s difficult to trace the context, but it does indeed seem to be a gay pride celebrating sort of event.

I think drag can be funny. Monty Python men dressed as old biddies are hilarious. But if it’s trying to send a message… it shouldn’t be one promoting gay lifestyles, or sodomy, or sapphism.

Hm; maybe the Catholic students should join in and screw with the “pride” message.

Thanks for the additional info. Now that this thing has generated negative headlines around the country for USD (unless its leaders WANTED such headlines and consider this “good news”?) – maybe banning such in the future is warranted.

Or would this just begin a new bigger controversy? Bussed in activists protesting for (some high sounding ideal that works to the end that “Catholics are prejudiced” and "open minded’ people are ever so much better).

I don’t think of Jonathan Winters doing “Maude Frickert” to be “in drag” – but technically I suppose it is. When Milton Berle dressed up and did an overblown Marilyn Monroe imitation - it was less of a commercial for “this is OK, good even!” than “OMG how stupid … this is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen!”

There is a hard sell going on. Full court press. Why, it’s a gay world!

Some (like me) would rather not think about it … but even I am here now talking about it.

OH! And how it’s in a Catholic College. Tolerated. Celebrated? Certainly very visible.
And is this particular sin spoken against there? Heavens!

In some ways a Catholic College is hard to get into. Or can be. Private schools more easily can get rid of offending students one would think. Grades are one way - academic probation. Perhaps a morals clause signed by every student each semester registered would do the trick. Something like:

As a member of a Catholic Campus, I agree not to participate in any public action contrary to the teachings of the Catholic faith - or face forfeiture of my student status per probation or a remedial period of student body reinstatement. This campus maintains a zero tolerance policy on the promotion of heresies, serious sins, scandals, and using campus assets for anti-Catholic activities. Signature __________________. Date ________.

As to your last line TarkanAttila, . If that was done – the concept of moral equivalence and “nothing can be said to be wrong” – would, I suspect, be quickly jettisoned for slogans about “intolerance and harrassment” < which, oh yeah (!), are VERY wrong.

And the ACLU and mainstream media would make USD - Westboro Baptist II.

In major league subversion, the radicals will try to provoke a response, and be first to
file a lawsuit against the “offending” (to them) party. Win or lose per the lawsuit, they will have caused trouble for their enemies and gained power.

I’m still not SURE of all the motives of every kid that participated in this (pardon the use of kid … I’m way older than a college student now). But it looks like another ploy of radical provocateurs has “worked” and done some damage.

 

[CaptFun]

It’s over. It happened. More is known.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGwARNST7OofKdNGJzP1cNzgsGJSwNvyAag9aXwfpkxmnlbXqmjw

alumniforacatholicusd.org/20130425_162450.pdf :ehh:

alumniforacatholicusd.org/20130425_132053.pdf :dts::doh2:

I don’t know WHY … but I’m starting to think of the term “hostile takeover” again.

In the last century it was businesses taken over through the buying of stock - and a radically different plan for the business than had been pursued before. Not Universities.

In my previous posts I wondered if it might be just a silly college humor show where “drag” was an extreme term for the kind of comedy one might have seen the Three Stooges or
Laurel and Hardy do at one time.

Or a hazing kind of a thing - embarrassing the freshmen pledges etc. etc. (which would be dubious too). But no. It seems to be a political marking of territory on a Catholic Campus seemingly sanctioned (or else NOT restricted at ALL) by the University’s powers that be.

alumniforacatholicusd.org/USD_Drag_Show_2013_story.pdf < An alumni group opposed to their school being used for this scandal provides this evidence. “It’s “Bi” Week!” Touted the wonders of bi-sexuality ALL over the Catholic Campus.

I wonder if anyone involved with the University Administration has the job of Spiritual Counselor to the campus. Like a priest versed in theology enough to maybe whisper something like:

"This is wrong. You are encouraging a sin. Publicly. You have a responsibility as a member of a Catholic University to maintain certain standards. Not ALL of these are GRADES! USD does not accept every candidate that applies you know. And some students get put on probation for failing in a single class that pulls their grades below ‘C’ level. THIS is MUCH worse. Stop it please. For your own sake. And those you might entice into serious sin. I’m obliged to tell you. Warn you. If you persist this is going on your permanent record. And not USD’s version - the one with consequences in the next and longer lasting world. Where there will be no “Bi” - and you should hope no bye-bye.

Thank you for your attention and enjoy your college years at this truly Catholic University.

You may of course opt for a life of drag shows and such. But I don’t recommend the stupid emptiness of that – and you certainly can’t do THAT here. Or a number of other things your student manual enumerates.

If anyone in power at the University should like to use or employ any or all of the suggestions in the quote box above … the Captain releases them to you gratis, and with his (my) compliments.

During Church History week (if IT has a week at USD) I would recommend against a re-enactment of the French Revolution - and an authentic tableau of a naked woman dancing on the altar of Notre Dame Cathedral calling herself the “Goddess of Reason” (at the Immaculata Church on campus). Not that that could EVER happen. Again. HERE I mean. Right? :blushing:

THIS is surely as far as things will go.

alumniforacatholicusd.org/contents/en-us/otherurl.html?url=http%3a//www.alumniforacatholicusd.org/USD.Drag%20Show%20Pamphlet.2013.pdf

 

[GWright]

OK - background (if it is not obvious): I am not a Roman Catholic.

‘Catholic’ is, of course, a bog standard english adjective meaning:

Hi taffy,

Just to clarify some minor points:

• the Church is actually called the Catholic Church, not “Roman Catholic”. The latter was invented by protestants at the reformation, so they could pretend they were not breaking away from “The Catholic Church” (even though they were).

Anglicans often like to pretend they are Catholics (they are not) and justify this to themselves by a nonsensical differentiation between “Catholic” and “Roman Catholic”.

These days, the terms are used by many interchangeably, sadly including Catholics.

Catholic means universal. To place a qualifer (Roman or other) in front of the word universal is obviously a nonsense. Something is either universal or it is not, there are no degrees of universality.

• The term “Catholic” was first coined in about 100 AD, so its root is not a simple “bog standard english adjective”. Its origin means universal and it was purely related to the Catholic Church. Its other uses (as you quote) are subsiduary derivations of this original use.

Cheers!
GW

 

[OriginalJS]

Hi taffy,

Just to clarify some minor points:

• the Church is actually called the Catholic Church, not “Roman Catholic”. The latter was invented by protestants at the reformation, so they could pretend they were not breaking away from “The Catholic Church” (even though they were).

Anglicans often like to pretend they are Catholics (they are not) and justify this to themselves by a nonsensical differentiation between “Catholic” and “Roman Catholic”.

These days, the terms are used by many interchangeably, sadly including Catholics.

Catholic means universal. To place a qualifer (Roman or other) in front of the word universal is obviously a nonsense. Something is either universal or it is not, there are no degrees of universality.

• The term “Catholic” was first coined in about 100 AD, so its root is not a simple “bog standard english adjective”. Its origin means universal and it was purely related to the Catholic Church. Its other uses (as you quote) are subsiduary derivations of this original use.

Cheers!
GW

I believe your point regarding “catholic” is borne out in common usage, at least in the US. While “catholic” is defined by lexicographers as meaning “universal” you rarely, if ever, see or hear it used that way.

 

[PrayRosary]

Before receiving my Juris Doctor, I went to John Carroll University (Jesuit) for my MBA. They were still a “Catholic” university when I attended. I wonder what they are like now. Anyone heard anything?

Dang, you are one educated individual. Impressive.

 

[21faces]

While drag shows are certainly an element of gay culture, gays don’t OWN drag, and there is nothing inherently homosexual in the act of a man wearing women’s clothing- or any other particular article of clothing. This is an issue of fashion and culture, not theology or even basic morality. Men have dressed and acted as women in the context of live performances across history, including Shakespeare. Speaking of which, live theater is also a notable element of gay culture. Should the university suspend its drama program as well?

 

[Elizium23]

While drag shows are certainly an element of gay culture, gays don’t OWN drag, and there is nothing inherently homosexual in the act of a man wearing women’s clothing- or any other particular article of clothing. This is an issue of fashion and culture, not theology or even basic morality. Men have dressed and acted as women in the context of live performances across history, including Shakespeare. Speaking of which, live theater is also a notable element of gay culture. Should the university suspend its drama program as well?

Your strawman is noted; and I will explain patiently to you that this “celebration”, titled “A Celebration of Gender Expression: Supreme Drag Superstar” is sponsored by the USD student PRIDE organization — the alliance of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender students and others.

There is no rationalizing this away: it is clearly a celebration of homosexualism and the depraved acts which accompany it. It is not a celebration of fashion or individuality or faithfulness, it is immorality condoned and paid for by a catholic University, which is just one of many around the United States who just can’t stand to stay faithful to their Catholic roots but rather, have to “move beyond the Church” and embrace secularism, modernism, and liberal agendas such as population control.

 

[Tomdstone]

Your strawman is noted; and I will explain patiently to you that this “celebration”, titled “A Celebration of Gender Expression: Supreme Drag Superstar” is sponsored by the USD student PRIDE organization — the alliance of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender students and others.

There is no rationalizing this away: it is clearly a celebration of homosexualism and the depraved acts which accompany it. It is not a celebration of fashion or individuality or faithfulness, it is immorality condoned and paid for by a catholic University, which is just one of many around the United States who just can’t stand to stay faithful to their Catholic roots but rather, have to “move beyond the Church” and embrace secularism, modernism, and liberal agendas such as population control.

If what you say is true, then why do the Roman Catholic authorities in charge of the school allow it, and why does the Roman Catholic bishop allow it? Isn’t this school under the authority of the Roman Catholic Jesuit order which has a Roman Catholic Pope who himself is a member of the Jesuit order?

 

[Elizium23]

USD has never been Jesuit. The bishop of the time and the Society of the Sacred Heart chartered it and it was run by the diocese, until…
Wikipedia:

Though a Catholic university, the school is no longer governed directly by the Diocese of San Diego. Today, a lay board of trustees governs the university’s operations. However, the Bishop of San Diego, the Most Rev. Robert H. Brom, retains a seat as a permanent member and retains control of the school’s designation of “Catholic.”

So the question of their catholic designation is one for Bishop Brom, or perhaps his successor, Coadjutor Bishop Cirilo Flores, who is scheduled to take over in four months and two days, as of this writing.

 

[SaintFrancis333]

I go to a Catholic Middle School and I am pretty much the only person in my grade that hold’s the Church’s belief. There are even some of the administration that don’t.

God Bless you. Never lose sight of your faith. It is the only lens we have to see the world as it is.