Dragons and Dinosaurs

[Roseeurekacross]

Lucy was put together with human and chimp bones to manufacture a missing link. It is common knowledge.

where is your source for this claim?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

darwin would say no such thing

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Lucy was “debunked” long ago.

debunked as what?

and again , please show your sources

 

[FiveLinden]

Um how about homo erectus,ancestor of several human species, including us?

 

[rossum]

Before I start on the detail, I need to make one overall point. You are reading young earth creationist sources and they are lying to you, massively. There is no scientific support for Young Earth Creationism, so all they have are lies. Lie after lie after lie. You are being lied to and, unfortunately, you are believing those lies.

Dragons are part of all ancient cultures, on pottery, on clothing, even in recent American Indian legends. The word dinosaur was invented in the 1840s and was used in the theory of evolution which claims it took millions of years for evolution of all life on earth.

Look at a dragon. It has four legs and two wings. That gives it six limbs. Look at any dinosaur, pterosaur or marine reptile. None of them have six limbs; all of them have four limbs. Dragons are not dinosaurs, they have two too many limbs. Did your lying sources make that point to you?

Have you read Conan-Doyle’s “The Lost World”? It is about an expedition to South America that finds living land dinosaurs in the early 20th century. What would happen to evolution if that were true? I know exactly what would happen – nothing. I know because it has already happened. Coelacanths were thought extinct, but were found alive by scientists in the 1920s. Wollemi Pines were thought extinct, but were found alive by scientists in 1994. Did your lying sources mention that birds are living dinosaurs? Again you are being lied to; living non-avian dinosaurs are not a problem. They would be fascinating and big news, but they would not be a problem for evolution.

Evolution says that modern species are descended from earlier species. If one of those earlier species happens to survive, then there is no problem for evolution. Many Americans are descended from Europeans; that does not require that Europeans are extinct, or that finding a living European refutes the claim of some Americans to have descended from Europeans. Again your YEC sources are lying to you.

If you want to refute evolution, you need to find a descendant species living before the first of its ancestor species. Haldane’s “Precambrian rabbit” is a classic example of what you should be looking for.

However, there has never been evidence of a single transition species (missing link).

Erm… Once we have found a link it is no longer a “missing” link, but a “found” link. We have thousands of found links. Again your YEC sources are lying to you.

The Bible is not a modern science manual, but it is the word of the Creator of the universe, and I’ll take his Word over man’s theories any day.

And there are thousands of different human interpretations of that Word available. If God created the universe, then by observing the universe, scientists are observing God’s Work. You should use God’s Work to help you interpret God’s Word correctly. Do not rely on lying YEC websites, they will mislead you.

And finally, a quote:

Don’t trust everything you read on the internet. – Abraham Lincoln

rossum

 

[Stephen_says]

Can you define “Transition Species”?

 

[Lou2U]

Are you trying to suggest that dragons were real but dinosaurs are not?

 

[AdamP88]

We see natural selection and the retention of advantageous traits in humans and animals. But there is no evidence as yet of one species becoming an entirely different species. The assertation that humans descended from apes still is only a theory, there is no evidence for it.

 

[rossum]

We see natural selection and the retention of advantageous traits in humans and animals. But there is no evidence as yet of one species becoming an entirely different species.

But we do see much evidence of one species becoming a similar, but different, species. Given the timescale we are looking at, that is the best we can expect. If you want to see “entirely different” you will need to wait a few billion years .

The assertation that humans descended from apes still is only a theory, there is no evidence for it.

First, gravity is “still only a theory”. You need to learn that in science the word “theory” does not have the same meaning as it does in non-scientific speech.

Second, you are also being misinformed, there is a great deal of evidence for evolution. How do you think drug-resistant bacteria acquired their resistance? It evolved.

rossum

 

[AdamP88]

What examples do you have of one species becoming a different species?

Gravity is emperically measurable and observable.

Bacteria becoming drug resistant is not the same as bacteria changing to a different species.

There is a difference between different types of the same species and a different species.

A black guy and a white guy are the same species. But they have each inherited different traits that are advantgeous to their environment.

 

[Jamie5]

The whole premise of this thread is critically flawed. “Transitional” Fossils are an absolute scientific fact.

“Fossils or organisms that show the intermediate states between an ancestral form and that of its descendants are referred to as transitional forms. There are numerous examples of transitional forms in the fossil record, providing an abundance of evidence for change over time.”

So in other words, Lucy absolutely existed. But Adam and Eve did not, they’re metaphors.

 

[rossum]

What examples do you have of one species becoming a different species?

See: Tauber and Tauber (1977) Sympatric Speciation Based on Allelic Changes at Three Loci: Evidence from Natural Populations in Two Habitats

Gravity is emperically measurable and observable.

So is evolution. DNA testing allows us to determine the rate of change in DNA both short-term and long term.

Bacteria becoming drug resistant is not the same as bacteria changing to a different species.

It is evidence for evolution. You asked for evidence, that is one easy example of evolution in action in real time today. Would you prefer plants evolving resistance to herbicides, insects evolving resistance to insecticides or elephants evolving smaller tusks in response to poaching?

There is a difference between different types of the same species and a different species.

Yes there is, but in almost all cases those differences between variants have evolved, and are valid examples of evolution. Evolution happens within species as well as between species.

rossum

 

[F_Marturana]

I remember as a child seeing footage of humans interacting with dinosaurs.

I found a pic:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Sometimes the dinosaurs were really advanced:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[pianistclare]

Subscribing.

 

[twf]

Actually we do. Evolution is generally a very gradual process, so we normally have to piece it together from genetic evidence and the fossil record. We certainly see more primitive species farther down in the fossil record gradually becoming more complex as we work our way up. That being said, we have observed the emergence of new species in the lab with bacteria - who can reproduce and thus mutate at incredible speeds.
It blows me away that this is even a discussion among Catholics. Our Church takes no issue with modern science. Our recent popes (for the past 70 years or more) take no issue with reconciling the overwhelming evidence for biological evolution with the faith. Respectfully, your comments reek of fundamentalist Protestant pseudoscience… the so called “scientists” who make up this stuff are no friends of the Catholic Church. The entire Young Earth Creationist movement is rooted in a desperate attempt to maintain Sola Scriptura. Trust me. I’ve been there. I was raised both an Evangelical and a young earthier… then I became Catholic and discovered that I didn’t have to sacrifice reason and all modern science in order to believe. This whole fascination with Protestant pseudoscience is definitely an American thing…

 

[pianistclare]

I 'LIKE" the previous post for some reason, the site won’t allow me to like it with the heart.
But way to go twf!

 

[twf]

Yep. And those minor adaptations are multiplied a million times over a million years and bam you have a new species… it’s the exact same process.

 

[RandomAlias]

Look at a dragon. It has four legs and two wings. That gives it six limbs. Look at any dinosaur, pterosaur or marine reptile. None of them have six limbs; all of them have four limbs. Dragons are not dinosaurs, they have two too many limbs.

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn’t know that.

I am a scientist and I concur with the science regarding evolution. I am also a faithful Catholic. That presents no conflict as far as I can tell.

I’m watching to see if anyone changes his/her mind. I expect we’ll all be talking past each other. Be patient and keep it charitable, everyone.

 

[redbetta]

Is the OP trying to say that dragons existed at some point? The myth of dragons is likely the result of people finding the bones of dinosaurs, ancient whales, and various mega fauna and trying to piece together what made those bones.

 

[twf]

No the OP is saying that stories of dragons are based upon oral accounts of dinosaurs… it’s part of the “Young Earth Creationism” model in which the earth is a mere few thousand years old and thus every species that ever lived, lived with man…