'Drastic' advice for Latinos

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Shun Spanish-language media, the governor says, and immigrants will learn English more quickly

By Kevin Yamamura - Bee Capitol Bureau

Last Updated 7:13 am PDT Thursday, June 14, 2007
Story appeared in MAIN NEWS section, Page A4

SAN JOSE – Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger told hundreds of Latino journalists Wednesday that immigrants who want to learn English more quickly should shun various forms of Spanish-language media.

“You’ve got to turn off the Spanish television set,” Schwarzenegger said at the 25th annual National Association of Hispanic Journalists convention, which included many who produce Spanish-language material.

“It’s that simple. You’ve got to learn English,” he said. “I know this sounds odd and this is the politically incorrect thing to say and I’m going to get myself in trouble. But I know that when I came to this country, I very rarely spoke German to anyone.”

sacbee.com/111/story/221899.html
 
He is absolutely right - total immersion is the way to go! 👍

Since he is an immigrant himself, the Governor can get away with saying that. I’m sure people will still complain, but imagine the outcry if a native-born politician said the same thing.
Jeffrey said:
Shun Spanish-language media, the governor says, and immigrants will learn English more quickly

By Kevin Yamamura - Bee Capitol Bureau

Last Updated 7:13 am PDT Thursday, June 14, 2007
Story appeared in MAIN NEWS section, Page A4

SAN JOSE – Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger told hundreds of Latino journalists Wednesday that immigrants who want to learn English more quickly should shun various forms of Spanish-language media.

“You’ve got to turn off the Spanish television set,” Schwarzenegger said at the 25th annual National Association of Hispanic Journalists convention, which included many who produce Spanish-language material.

“It’s that simple. You’ve got to learn English,” he said. “I know this sounds odd and this is the politically incorrect thing to say and I’m going to get myself in trouble. But I know that when I came to this country, I very rarely spoke German to anyone.”

sacbee.com/111/story/221899.html
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rlg94086 said:
He is absolutely right - total immersion is the way to go! 👍

Since he is an immigrant himself, the Governor can get away with saying that. I’m sure people will still complain, but imagine the outcry if a native-born politician said the same thing.
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Okay…well, I could be wrong. 😃
Hispanic Leaders Blast Schwarzenegger’s Advice to Turn Off Spanish TV

“Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger demonstrated his ignorance on immigration issues once again by perpetuating the myth that immigrants have to reject their old culture and language in order to learn English and assimilate,” said Brent Wilkes, national executive director of the League of United Latin American Citizens.
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foxnews.com/story/0,2933,283099,00.html

Not everyone is pounding him…
Rafael Olmeda, president of the National Association of Hispanic Journalists, said most NAHJ members would agree with the governor’s statements.

“Most people I’ve spoken to walked away believing that he was trying to say that we must learn English to succeed in American society,” Olmeda said.
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Isn’t that common sense??
 
I knew some in the Perpetually Agrieved Community would complain:shrug:

Anyway, I do wonder why it is that I have to press 1 for English and 2 for Spanish?

I don’t have to press 3 for Hindi, 4 for Polish 5 for Bosnian, 6 for Vietnamese, 7 for… You get the point. I guess it’s just impossible for Spanish speakers to learn Ingles.

And I am sure that if I moved to Mexico the government would be very accomodating to my demand to have all my communications in English.

/sarc
 
I don’t know how “drastic” this is. Everyone else who immigrated here has learned English. Native Americans have learned English. That doesn’t mean our ancestral cultures cannot be celebrated by speaking German, Spanish, or whatever in our own homes, but the language of the U.S. is English, and people who live here would do well to learn it if they wish to be successful.
 
He’s absolutely right. The best way to learn a language is to jump right in and just start listening to it and learning it! When I lived in Mexico, I read Spanish-language newspapers and magazines, I watched Mexican TV programming (news and entertainment), I spoke to most people in Spanish. English was just not an option in most cases. There was no “press 2 for English”. In fact, it was considered extremely presumptuous to expect any language other than Spanish to be spoken outside of airports and hotels.

My house mates were from all over the world (we were students at the University of Mexico) so our common language was Spanish. Now, I already knew a great deal of Spanish before I went to Mexico to study, but some of my house mates knew nothing but English going in. After 4 months of immersion, they were all proficient in Spanish.
 
Yay!

(puts on his English as a Second Language teacher cap)

The data shows they are both right (they are basically talking past each other).

The idea that a person must abandon their original language to become fluent in the new language is completely wrong. People, especially children, are more than capable of handling two languages.

On the flip side…if an immigrant feels no need to learn the new language, he won’t. So if the immigrant watches TV in Spanish, talks to his family in Spanish, talks to his coworkers and friends in Spanish, and talks to his boss in Spanish, and always requests a billingual employee whenever he goes shopping/banking/etc…he will never, ever learn fluent English.

So, Arnold’s advice is valid: you need to learn English, and to learn English, you need to expose yourself to it…and that actually involves doing without some things you could do in Spanish.

I taught at a college recently, and part of my job was managing a cafe, with coffee and soft drinks sold at less than cost (for coffee, about 1/10th what it would cost normally). Students could go there freely. We had free satellite TV, a free movie theatre, and 8 computers with free English games and free internet access. And understand, this was the third world, so our cafe was just about the most high tech entertainment place in the city…and it was completely free except for the drinks. The only catch was, if anyone on the staff heard anyone (even the teachers) speak Chinese, they were immediately told to leave. If anyone went to a Chinese website, they were asked to leave. If anyone changed the language of the DVD in the movie theatre to Chinese, they were asked to leave.

It was very, VERY effective (and it didn’t require the students to speak to their fathers and mothers in English either).
 
Arnold is an immigrate who was a German speaker and who needed to learn English.
Arnpld’s tip is a good one.
 
Jeffrey said:
Shun Spanish-language media, the governor says, and immigrants will learn English more quickly

By Kevin Yamamura - Bee Capitol Bureau

Last Updated 7:13 am PDT Thursday, June 14, 2007
Story appeared in MAIN NEWS section, Page A4

SAN JOSE – Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger told hundreds of Latino journalists Wednesday that immigrants who want to learn English more quickly should shun various forms of Spanish-language media.

“You’ve got to turn off the Spanish television set,” Schwarzenegger said at the 25th annual National Association of Hispanic Journalists convention, which included many who produce Spanish-language material.

“It’s that simple. You’ve got to learn English,” he said. “I know this sounds odd and this is the politically incorrect thing to say and I’m going to get myself in trouble. But I know that when I came to this country, I very rarely spoke German to anyone.”

sacbee.com/111/story/221899.html
Click to expand...
👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 :yup:
 
I agree wholeheartedly. Where I live, there is a large Spanish and Brazillian population. People who come into the Walgreens I work in expect me to speak Spanish or Portuguese to them, and when I don’t, they get mad! It really gets on my nerves because English is the language of the country!! If I ever moved to Mexico or Brazil, I would NEVER go to the country without learning their language first! And to those who think that I’m just unwilling to adapt, I’m bilingual. I’m fluent in English and ASL. I’m also quite profiecient in Spanish and I know some Portuguese and Latin (Does that count?) The reason why I don’t speak Spanish to my customers at work is to make a point. If you’re going to make it anywhere in this country, you need to learn English.
 
Well, I agree and disagree. From a business standpoint, it makes sense to help your customers who are buying something in your store. Since you can speak Spanish or Portuguese and choose not to in order to “make a point,” that isn’t serving your customers or employer well.

I have traveled to a lot of countries. My limited German helps, but I still am appreciative of an English speaker when I am making a purchasing decision. In Japan, I am even more appreciative. I had a mild flu bug on one of my visits, and I am lucky the pharmacist spoke some English to help me find some decent OTC medicine, because the brands and names of medication are different. In Tijuana, my Dutch co-worker and I got lost (street signs are terrible there) and we had to find a cab driver to follow to our destination - again, if he insisted on us speaking Spanish to prove a point, we would have remained lost.

On the other hand, I don’t think the patrons should be mad when someone doesn’t speak their language - frustrated at their own inabilities perhaps, but not angry.
Denae said:
I agree wholeheartedly. Where I live, there is a large Spanish and Brazillian population. People who come into the Walgreens I work in expect me to speak Spanish or Portuguese to them, and when I don’t, they get mad! It really gets on my nerves because English is the language of the country!! If I ever moved to Mexico or Brazil, I would NEVER go to the country without learning their language first! And to those who think that I’m just unwilling to adapt, I’m bilingual. I’m fluent in English and ASL. I’m also quite profiecient in Spanish and I know some Portuguese and Latin (Does that count?) The reason why I don’t speak Spanish to my customers at work is to make a point. If you’re going to make it anywhere in this country, you need to learn English.
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You know, I didn’t think of it like that. I really didn’t, and I will start speaking spanish to accomadate people more…But here’s the thing…I know of people who have lived here for years and still don’t know ANY English. That’s because they don’t WANT to learn the language. Yeah, English is a hard language, but if you’re living here for years, have a job here and rasing a family here, you NEED to learn English! I didn’t speak Spanish to them because it forces them to realize that not everyone here will speak their native language. I’m going to Portugual next year with my family for a long vacation, as I am partially Portuguese and my uncle has a house there. I plan on becoming at least more profiecent in Portuguese so when I go, I’ll at least be able to communicate with people at the store!
 
Denae said:
You know, I didn’t think of it like that. I really didn’t, and I will start speaking spanish to accomadate people more…But here’s the thing…I know of people who have lived here for years and still don’t know ANY English. That’s because they don’t WANT to learn the language. Yeah, English is a hard language, but if you’re living here for years, have a job here and rasing a family here, you NEED to learn English! I didn’t speak Spanish to them because it forces them to realize that not everyone here will speak their native language. I’m going to Portugual next year with my family for a long vacation, as I am partially Portuguese and my uncle has a house there. I plan on becoming at least more profiecent in Portuguese so when I go, I’ll at least be able to communicate with people at the store!
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I agree with you, Denae. I work in a public Middle School in South Florida, and we have a very large immigrant population. From my interactions with many of them, it seems the people from the islands (many of whom come here only speaking Creole) and the very new Hispanic immigrants are more than willing to learn and attempt to communicate in English. The Spanish speakers who have been in this country for a while, on the other hand, almost always demand that they be able to speak to someone who speaks Spanish, regardless of if they know English or not.

I am bi-lingual (English and Spanish), and I will speak in Spanish if necessary (although my job has little contact with the students or parents after the first week or so of school), but many of our secretaries, counselors and administrators do not speak anything other than English. I hear them tell the parents that they don’t speak Spanish and the one Spanish-speaking secretary is unavailable, and all of a sudden the parent speaks fluent English.

Like I said before, when I lived in Mexico, I never presumed (let alone demanded!) that people spoke English where ever I went. It is an attitude of entitlement that I simply cannot comprehend.
 
Hispanic immigrants don’t learn English at the rate YOU want them to because:

1st) they don’t have to, they get along just fine at work and shopping by speaking Spanish with mostly other Spanish speaking people; and

2nd) they don’t intend on staying in America their entire lives - they will go back to their country of origin to retire.

America, historically, isn’t a “nation” with a common culture or language. Until relatively recently there were a lot of people in a lot of places in America that spoke a lot of different languages other than English. In the early 20th century, for example, it was common to find people that could only speak French in Louisiana, or only Spanish in Texas, or only Polish in Chicago, or only Navajo in their own lands.

To get the contemptuous attitude that “they” should learn English is, in my opinion, on the road towards the heresy of “Americanism”. It is only natural that this ingrained heresy in America has destroyed the Church in America, it has made it subservient to the Fideist, pluralistic “faith” that is forced upon Americans through an effective propaganda network.
 
THEY are in AMERICA… THEY should learn English… period.
KofC660 said:
Hispanic immigrants don’t learn English at the rate YOU want them to because:

1st) they don’t have to, they get along just fine at work and shopping by speaking Spanish with mostly other Spanish speaking people; and

2nd) they don’t intend on staying in America their entire lives - they will go back to their country of origin to retire.

America, historically, isn’t a “nation” with a common culture or language. Until relatively recently there were a lot of people in a lot of places in America that spoke a lot of different languages other than English. In the early 20th century, for example, it was common to find people that could only speak French in Louisiana, or only Spanish in Texas, or only Polish in Chicago, or only Navajo in their own lands.

To get the contemptuous attitude that “they” should learn English is, in my opinion, on the road towards the heresy of “Americanism”. It is only natural that this ingrained heresy in America has destroyed the Church in America, it has made it subservient to the Fideist, pluralistic “faith” that is forced upon Americans through an effective propaganda network.
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Some time ago I read an interesting article written by a nationally-syndicated columnist of Hispanic origin. His parents could not speak English, and only Spanish was spoken in the home. He and his sister learned enough English to “get by”, until their parents put them in a Catholic grade school, where they did not do very well. One Saturday, a nun from the school visited for a long time with his parents. After she left, theparents announced that from then on, only English would be spoken in their home. The kids hated it, of course, especially since their parents could barely speak any English even after some years. The children, however, began to excel in school after a time.

Later, when he was in college, it dawned on the columnist what had happened. He had had it in his head, tacitly, that English was an “official” language; the language of the post office, the policeman, the “white” businesses, but that the only “real” and “complete” language was Spanish. That thought had kept him and his sister from really becoming expressive in English; kept them from fully and completely knowing everything that was being said in English, and being able to say everything as completely as they might have wanted. There were things they were missing, but didn’t know it.

This columnist opined that bilingual education is the worst thing you can possibly do to a child from an educational standpoint, as it only encourages the same mental “trap” that he and his entire extended family was in.

In my profession, I use translators a lot, and also talk to many, many Hispanics who know English quite well…or seem to. I have sometimes asked how much of the English they really understand. Most do, but only within the parameters of what they do for a living. One of the problems with English, however, is that it is actually three languages, or more properly speaking, it has at least three “modes” of speaking. Native English speakers shift from one to another without difficulty. The most difficult thing for a translator to do, and the most difficult thing for someone whose first language is not English, is to slip from one “mode” to another; something that happens all the time in business, medicine and the law. In business, a sort of “French-derived” form of English is spoken when one is talking about business. If the topic turns to football or family, however, it’s largely “Anglo Saxon”. If it’s a scientific endeavor, it’s Latinate. English has a staggering number of words and not-terribly-consistent ways of expressing things. There are things you can say in English that really won’t translate into Spanish. Some of them are exceedingly difficult to understand if English is not one’s first language. If a person is not “immersed”, and as early as possible, he or she inevitably misses out on a lot of things. I have asked a number of very good English-speakers whose first language is Spanish and who are at least bilingual if not Spanish-speaking at home, how much they really understand in one of those “mode-shifting” conversations. The answers vary from about 1/3 to about 2/3. Even missing 1/3 is missing a lot.
 
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