Dress Like a Man

[eightydeuce82]

The crisis in Faith has nothing to do with a laxness in how a crowd dresses. The crisis of Faith has to do with hearts themselves being lukewarm and no desire to purify them and come to Christ, believe in Him… that and that only. You can’t necessarily know that how a person dresses is manifesting how they feel on the inside. You honestly can not do that… at all!

People dressing up never influenced me to Christ and trust me where I was born and raised (wealthy area) they did dress up at my church and it did nothing to my young heart but to believe the wrong things about Christ and I had no sense of the sacred. It was only the poor people that I saw DOING HIS Word , as they were too busy giving all they had in time talent and treasure to others in need that influenced me. They were impressive. They were dynamic. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Mass should be lax, I believe in the sacred. But dress is not a topic that should even come up. If would be different if a person came in acting raunchy and rude- yes- but even at that, take pity on the poor soul and direct him to Christ. How someone dresses is no indicator. How a person behaves probably is.

I beg to differ its certainly a contributing factor…add all of them up you get where we are at today. Its people who dismiss these sorts of thing allowing it to continue because we could say the same thing about all the other factors.

 

[eightydeuce82]

Those that feel they need to push the “suit and tie” model for attending Mass should take the time to understand their history.

Business suits (or lounge/sack suits) were unknown before the beginning of the 20th Century and not well known until after WWI, in the early 1920’s. They then enjoyed a fairly strong run until say 1970. While limited professions (politicians, funeral directors and lawyers in court) still commonly wear business suits, most do not.

It’s amusing that so many equate this style as “the standard” for male church garb even though its run lasted a mere 50 years or so.

I feel that way about the ordinary mass…

BTW the point isn’t wearing a suit the authors audience was people here in the US.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I agree, be the change that you want to see. I’m just saying lets worry about ourselves. Dress the best that you can and show others how it should be done. Start a movement and others may follow.

This is good, but think that is exactly what the Op intended to say with his post. I want to say that the intention to do what is right is not wrong, but to imply that because someone dresses this way or that means they aren’t Chrisitan enough is wrong.

It should be noted, that it can go the other way around too… Those who dress up in their best sometimes are thought of as being stuck up or ‘Pharisaical’, when in fact it is also wrong to judge a person in that way too.

Its just this: Christians, don’t judge based on dress! Any kind! Even if they dressed to make a scene and do evil… don’t judge! They could become the next convert if they see the love of Christ from you.

 

[KD8TZC]

I help a lot with a homeless and needy program in a neighboring parish, and I see these people go to church, and some of them are in literal rags. Does it mean they are less holy because they are filthy, or have shabby clothes?

I also see the people in church who are dressed up in very nice clothes and how they almost run people over with their cars when leaving mass.

Just because you are dressed up doesn’t mean you are more holy or reverent. Personally, I would rather sit with a smelly homeless person who is being as reverent and respectful in his dress. I know many people would shun that person, but they are still children of God regardless of how well they are dressed.

Again, we should show reverence towards the mass, but don’t judge a book by its cover as that book may be worn out, but still has a TON of love for their maker.

 

[eightydeuce82]

I help a lot with a homeless and needy program in a neighboring parish, and I see these people go to church, and some of them are in literal rags. Does it mean they are less holy because they are filthy, or have shabby clothes?

I also see the people in church who are dressed up in very nice clothes and how they almost run people over with their cars when leaving mass.

Just because you are dressed up doesn’t mean you are more holy or reverent. Personally, I would rather sit with a smelly homeless person who is being as reverent and respectful in his dress. I know many people would shun that person, but they are still children of God regardless of how well they are dressed.

Again, we should show reverence towards the mass, but don’t judge a book by its cover as that book may be worn out, but still has a TON of love for their maker.

Nope it doesn’t mean that nor does the article imply what you are putting forth

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Nope it doesn’t mean that nor does the article imply what you are putting forth

Would you share with us what you believe the article implies?

 

[AnneElizabeth]

And here lies thinking that has destroyed society. “I’d never get an abortion, but it’s another woman’s decision and is between her and God.”

It is a spiritual act of mercy to rebuke sinners and help each other get to heaven. It’s cowardly to see a person who may benefit from a conversation (and it doesn’t need to be condemning) and just think “This is between that person and God.”

I’ve read no where in Scripture (especially) and in the Catechism where it says not dressing up for Mass is a sin.

 

[eightydeuce82]

Would you share with us what you believe the article implies?

I already did in post #30

*You can acknowledge you own faults not pass judgement and still wear a suit to show an outward respect for the King of Kings that might get others to do the same. We contact the world with our outward expressions of self. That’s how we communicate. If someone sees you wearing a suit or nice cloths taking things seriously they might just want to explore that more.

I am one of two people at my parish that receives the Eucharist kneeling and on the tong…this is our preference not to make a show of it but to encourage people to take this more seriously and you are receiving the Lord. Many more have followed and have said that doing so has increased their faith and belief in the Eucharist.

Jesus never said a lot of things and we can make assumptions of what he did and didn’t to or did and didn’t say but the bible does very specifically point out that the way we dress is important. The way we worship is important and that we can effect people by our outward expressions.

Jesus didn’t form Israel to be an invisible union of tribes they were to be a VERY visible union so that all others would emulate them. Much more he created a Church to replace this beacon and be a Very Visible thing. We do things visibly to draw people to Christ. People will not recognize a invisible union of believers that exists only in mans hearts! As the protestants will have you believe. *

 

[eightydeuce82]

I’ve read no where in Scripture (especially) and in the Catechism where it says not dressing up for Mass is a sin.

Keep reading I bet you also missed the part when God struck dead a priest for doing the incense wrong, laid out exactly what people were to wear etc etc… and the parable of the wedding feast.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I beg to differ its certainly a contributing factor…add all of them up you get where we are at today. Its people who dismiss these sorts of thing allowing it to continue because we could say the same thing about all the other factors.

Do you know where real faith starts?

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Keep reading I bet you also missed the part when God struck dead a priest for doing the incense wrong, laid out exactly what people were to wear etc etc… and the parable of the wedding feast.

Actually I do, but I don’t contest any of that because ONLY GOD CAN READ THE HEART precisely and accurately.

What maters is what God sees. You have made it, what the people see - or - What I see goes… and people do not have the power to do that precisely and accurately!

 

[JimG]

I completely agree with this article. I’m dismayed at the clothes people wear at mass. Men who are ushers wear ratty jeans, gym shoes and tshirts. And I KNOW these men have suits because I’ve seen them in them. These men wouldn’t even think about going to meet their favorite sports player (or some other exciting event) so why do they think it’s ok to dress like that for mass?

Interestingly, many of these men dressed up last week for first communion,
But only because they would be in pictures. It’s sad. We live in a me-focused world.

The men/boys in my house wear a suit and tie. It may be uncomfortable and inconvenient, but they are going to see the King of Kings and need to dress like the special occasion it is.

Well, I’m impressed that the men in your house wear suits and ties. It’s not usual now, but I’m old enough to recall a time when it was. Growing up as one of four brothers, we were always required to wear a suit and tie for Sunday Mass. It kind of surprises me now to think that we all even had suits and ties; our family was not that well off. And Sunday was, for the most part, the only time we wore them. I was ready to relax and have breakfast when we got home from Mass, but mom insisted that we change out of our suits and ties before relaxing.

But I don’t think anybody was judging. As a teenager, I worked all night Saturdays along with my brother in a mailroom, then washed up and went directly to the 5:30am Sunday Mass in our work clothes. Nobody raised their eyebrows at how we were dressed.

It became pretty common to dress casually for mass, but my wife always refused to wear jeans even to daily Mass, although it was pretty common.

I haven’t worn a suit for a long time though; what I wear to Mass now would be called “business casual.”

 

[Tallguy88]

I wasn’t going to say anything with regards to this, but I think we should be more concerned with judging our OWN acts and how we dress at mass than what others do. Isn’t that what it says in the gospel at least? How am I to know why someone looks sloppy at mass… that is between then and God.

Exactly! I’m sorry my inability to afford a dress suit bothers some people. If I had an extra $300-$600 laying around, I’d go buy one. Since I don’t, I’m forced to wear the same thing I wear everyday: Kakhis and a collared shirt.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I already did in post #30

*You can acknowledge you own faults not pass judgement and still wear a suit to show an outward respect for the King of Kings that might get others to do the same. We contact the world with our outward expressions of self. That’s how we communicate. If someone sees you wearing a suit or nice cloths taking things seriously they might just want to explore that more.

I am one of two people at my parish that receives the Eucharist kneeling and on the tong…this is our preference not to make a show of it but to encourage people to take this more seriously and you are receiving the Lord. Many more have followed and have said that doing so has increased their faith and belief in the Eucharist.

Jesus never said a lot of things and we can make assumptions of what he did and didn’t to or did and didn’t say but the bible does very specifically point out that the way we dress is important. The way we worship is important and that we can effect people by our outward expressions.

Jesus didn’t form Israel to be an invisible union of tribes they were to be a VERY visible union so that all others would emulate them. Much more he created a Church to replace this beacon and be a Very Visible thing. We do things visibly to draw people to Christ. People will not recognize a invisible union of believers that exists only in mans hearts! As the protestants will have you believe. *

It is indeed correct that the way we worship is important, and that the way we do can effect people, but REAL influence does not come from show, it comes from being genuine. You cannot please God by making sure your exterior says “Christ”. Jesus speaks of having washed the outside of the cup, or “white-washed walls”… it does not please Christ to ‘act’ Christianity. It only pleases God when we DO, and that in our doing is coming from true love for Him, not aesthetics. You are only fooling yourself that God is pleased if you do that. I speak from experience. Its vanity disguised as piety.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

Personally, I think it respectful to dress appropriately when entering God’s house. There are plenty of second hand stores, or even relatives or friends who may be getting rid of clothing. Also, if someone sees, they could make their own clothing. Someone could borrow clothes to wear for Mass.

I suppose that I was raised to dress for church. There are a handful of times that I haven’t, such as church picnic, clean up after church, - we were all told that we didn’t need to dress up. There was one time when I was an acolyte and was asked by the minister to serve at a funeral service. It was summer and quite hit and humid, so I wore shorts, but also had my vestments over top.

My husband wears a suit to church. He is VERY old school.

 

[revert_jen]

To rebuke sinners, yes. But to rebuke the have-nots? Would it really be your place to go up to a person at Mass and tell them, “You are not dressed well enough to prove you have strong faith”? Surely not. That is not your job.

We all should be setting an example by dressing with proper reverence for the Mass ourselves. NOT by assuming that our fellow man in the pew is less of a Catholic because his clothes aren’t as nice.

You know, there is a big difference between saying, “As a general principle, you should wear clothes to Mass that show your reverence for what is a special occasion” and saying “There should be a dress code at Mass.”

I whole-heartedly agree that we shouldn’t be looking at individuals in Church and saying to ourselves, “This man is dressed in ratty clothes, therefore he doesn’t love Christ or understand the Mass.” From reading the original post, I didn’t get the impression that it disagreed about that. However, stating a general principle of behavior isn’t the same as judging individuals.

[The following comments relate to the whole thread, not specifically to the post quoted above.]

Also, to say that everyone who comes to Mass in ratty clothes is doing so for economic reasons is just silly. In many areas, the large majority of people attending Mass can afford, and indeed already possess, nice clothes. It is these people, who have nice clothes but don’t think Mass is important enough to wear them, that the article addresses.

The fact that some people do not possess “nice” clothes not only does not refute the point, it is completely irrelevant to it. It would only be relevant if the parish were in a very disadvantaged area and nice clothes would make you stand out and be different than your neighbors. There are parishes like that, and in those cases it should be taken into account.

But most parishes in the US (the stated audience of the article) are not like that. And a lot of the ratty clothes people wear are at least as expensive as the nice clothes sitting in their closets.

I’m not even sure I agree about men needing to wear suits to Mass (although I agree that people should dress modestly, neatly, and reverently). I just hate to see the “poor people” straw man yet again in a thread about dressing for Mass.

–Jen

 

[KD8TZC]

Personally, I don’t think God cares that much about our material things. I don’t think he cares if we wear a $20,000 watch to church or no watch. I don’t think he cares if you drive a Bentley to church or walk. I don’t think he cares if you wear a suit or dress to mass or a T-Shirt and shorts. I think what he cares about is what is in your heart.

Are you at mass and receiving Him fully or is your mind elsewhere? Are you praising Him in the prayers and song with all your heart to the best of your ability, or are you thinking about what you are going to do after mass? Are you FULLY receiving Him in the Eucharist, embracing the gospel and taking that with you as you leave mass and evangelizing His work to those you live with, neighbor with, work with, shop with etc? I think that is what is most important to God. What is in our hearts, not what we wear.

If you wear a suit or dress to mass… kudos to you, but remember, it is what is in your heart and how you treat others that is more important to God.

God bless,

John

 

[Regina7]

To rebuke sinners, yes. But to rebuke the have-nots? Would it really be your place to go up to a person at Mass and tell them, “You are not dressed well enough to prove you have strong faith”? Surely not. That is not your job.

We all should be setting an example by dressing with proper reverence for the Mass ourselves. NOT by assuming that our fellow man in the pew is less of a Catholic because his clothes aren’t as nice.

I think of my husband just as an example. He wears his nice black pants, a button down shirt, and his tennis shoes. The shoes look awful, but we can’t afford a pair of new dress shoes right now. Never in even the quietest inward breath would I call him a bored Catholic. Everybody has a story; everybody has a perspective.

We need to be careful to carry our reverence for the Mass in the highest of all regard, and to set an example for others through charity and love. Not through making base assumptions and considering ourselves more faithful.

There are delicate ways of approaching it. One is talking when people comment on my and my family’s clothes. Another (and I’ve done this) is to say to a person dressed up outside of mass “Wow! That outfit would be perfect for mass!”

I certainly would never go up to a person and tell him he looks like a slob, but doing nothing isn’t good either. Many people, especially those of my parents’ generation, just weren’t taught how special the mass is.

 

[Tallguy88]

And here lies thinking that has destroyed society. “I’d never get an abortion, but it’s another woman’s decision and is between her and God.”

It is a spiritual act of mercy to rebuke sinners and help each other get to heaven. It’s cowardly to see a person who may benefit from a conversation (and it doesn’t need to be condemning) and just think “This is between that person and God.”

So its a sin to not wear a suit to Mass? We should rebuke the poorly dressed, even if we don’t know whether they can afford better?

 

[AnneElizabeth]

John 7:24 ►

Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly."

To make a judgement of someone based on their clothing is “mere appearances”.