Dressing modestly

[deb1]

surf(name removed by moderator)ure:

Count me in, too. I’ve always looked at a guy’s hands just after looking at his face!

Hmm…It might be interesting to start a thread in the water cooler on what nonsexual or nontypical parts of the body we find attractive. If I can find a title for the thread, I’ll do it but I am bad at wording these things.

 

[socalcarmelite]

I believe (and have read somewhere) that it is just as wrong to be too modest. Like a women hiding, in baggy clothing, or a shapeless dress for example. If we women dress reasonably, according to the climate and the situation, there should be no problem. It is wrong not to show the beauty that God has created. If a man is overly interested in a woman’s dress, he might have problems, so he should just go away.

 

[surfinpure]

deb1:

Hmm…It might be interesting to start a thread in the water cooler on what nonsexual or nontypical parts of the body we find attractive. If I can find a title for the thread, I’ll do it but I am bad at wording these things.

Not a bad idea. I bet there would be a pretty long list. I’ll try to think up a good title. Something like “And God said it was all VERY GOOD!”

 

[deb1]

socalcarmelite:

I believe (and have read somewhere) that it is just as wrong to be too modest. Like a women hiding, in baggy clothing, or a shapeless dress for example. If we women dress reasonably, according to the climate and the situation, there should be no problem. It is wrong not to show the beauty that God has created. If a man is overly interested in a woman’s dress, he might have problems, so he should just go away.

Extremes of dress aren’t a good witness to nonChristians. WOmen that go over board in this regard often look as though they don’t care about themselves.

 

[Jesus4Me]

Cathy2:

look at the attached image: Feminine, low-heeled shoe, that matches a dressy pantsuit. Any need for higher heels?

No, especially not for Mass.

 

[Annunciata]

deb1:

Extremes of dress aren’t a good witness to nonChristians. WOmen that go over board in this regard often look as though they don’t care about themselves.

Yup:thumbsup:

 

[Ana]

I went through the only wearing skirts phase. Thank God I am not there anymore. Only in hindsight did I notice that as my so called “modesty” increased, so did my sense of self righteousness. I spent much more time noticing and pondering what other women were wearing and bemoaning to anyone who would listen the lack of “modest attire.” This is true of EVERYONE I know who only wears skirts. You can tell these people, because they throw in the fact that they only wear skirts whenever possible and LOVE modesty threads.

"Well, I wear… " seeming to be the predominant phrase.

Then, if one in the skirt wearing group, decides that perhaps all this focus on outward appearance may not be as spiritually good as once thought and (gasp!) breaks out of the spiritual danger, they are quietly shunned and accused of backsliding (which may be true sometimes) … but NEVER the possibility that they may actually be progressing on their spiritual journey.

My spiritual director was blessedly patient with me as I worked through these issues (even to the point of wearing a headcovering), and was relieved when my pendulum settled with a more spiritually healthy view of clothing … I don’t worry about it. I wear what I want that I feel looks good and I am grateful for them. I wear clothes becoming to my age, position and vocation in life. These range from dresses to skirts to shorts to jeans to jogging pants to sneakers, flats, sandals, heels, and flip-flops, depending on the occassion. I also have a few really awesome and yes … FLATTERING outfits to wear for my husband when we go out on the town. Believe you me, he likes the way I dress now ALOT better. My husband tolerated the way I dressed before, but he loves the way I dress now.

I like the challenge of finding clothes that express me, not some boxed in set of rules, how long (two fingers below the neck!), how short (not above the knee!) ,how high (2 in. MAX!)

I do not notice AT ALL, nor do I care what other people wear, and it has given me opportunities in my life to receive much valued counsel at the hands of people whom I would have otherwise written off as “not as holy as I.”

Modesty is an interior state and if TRULY present, will express itself “naturally” in outward appearance. There is no counting or measuring.

God bless!

 

[mercygate]

Ana:

I went through the only wearing skirts phase. Thank God I am not there anymore. Only in hindsight did I notice that as my so called “modesty” increased, so did my sense of self righteousness. I spent much more time noticing and pondering what other women were wearing and bemoaning to anyone who would listen the lack of “modest attire.” This is true of EVERYONE I know who only wears skirts. You can tell these people, because they throw in the fact that they only wear skirts whenever possible and LOVE modesty threads.

"Well, I wear… " seeming to be the predominant phrase.

Then, if one in the skirt wearing group, decides that perhaps all this focus on outward appearance may not be as spiritually good as once thought and (gasp!) breaks out of the spiritual danger, they are quietly shunned and accused of backsliding (which may be true sometimes) … but NEVER the possibility that they may actually be progressing on their spiritual journey.

My spiritual director was blessedly patient with me as I worked through these issues (even to the point of wearing a headcovering), and was relieved when my pendulum settled with a more spiritually healthy view of clothing … I don’t worry about it. I wear what I want that I feel looks good and I am grateful for them. I wear clothes becoming to my age, position and vocation in life. These range from dresses to skirts to shorts to jeans to jogging pants to sneakers, flats, sandals, heels, and flip-flops, depending on the occassion. I also have a few really awesome and yes … FLATTERING outfits to wear for my husband when we go out on the town. Believe you me, he likes the way I dress now ALOT better. My husband tolerated the way I dressed before, but he loves the way I dress now.

I like the challenge of finding clothes that express me, not some boxed in set of rules, how long (two fingers below the neck!), how short (not above the knee!) ,how high (2 in. MAX!)

I do not notice AT ALL, nor do I care what other people wear, and it has given me opportunities in my life to receive much valued counsel at the hands of people whom I would have otherwise written off as “not as holy as I.”

Modesty is an interior state and if TRULY present, will express itself “naturally” in outward appearance. There is no counting or measuring.

God bless!

Bravissima! This is the best thing I’ve read on this subject in several threads on the subject. I kind of kicked at that “two finger” rule myself. Yes. We DO need to be attractive to our spouse and to be professional where that is required, and generally “pass for normal.” I have a tight dress code because of . . . well, that’s another thread. But NOBODY at work has the slightest clue! You go girl!

 

[jennstall]

Cathy2:

look at the attached image: Feminine, low-heeled shoe, that matches a dressy pantsuit. Any need for higher heels?

That shoe is nice and would look good with pants, but I think it would look ridiculous with most dresses. IMO, dresses look best when paired with shoes with a thinner heel (and it doesn’t have to be a stiletto). And in my not so humble opinion, I find this topic completely ridiculous and verging on the scrupulous. Wear shoes that work with your outfit. Wear shoes that make you happy. Rethink buying that 51st pair

 

[katieq]

Ana, you said it wonderfully

k

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

Great post, Ana! That is a very healthy attitude towards modesty.

jennstall:

That shoe is nice and would look good with pants, but I think it would look ridiculous with most dresses. IMO, dresses look best when paired with shoes with a thinner heel (and it doesn’t have to be a stiletto). And in my not so humble opinion, I find this topic completely ridiculous and verging on the scrupulous. Wear shoes that work with your outfit. Wear shoes that make you happy. Rethink buying that 51st pair

I’m focusing on your statement “Wear shoes that make you happy.” That’s what I do! Yesterday, I wore a broomstick skirt with two knit tops to Mass (the second top underneath, because the one I wore over it had a neckline a lot more plunging than I like). And my shoes? They were fisherman’s sandals, with ankle socks! I think the sandals go very well with my Franciscan Tau. I wear socks, because nylon irritates my skin, so I avoid nylons like the plague. Now, many people might think the sandals and ankle socks look ridiculous with the rest of my outfit, but I never let that bother me!

(For what it’s worth, the skirt is ankle length. I have no idea why the manufacturers make them so long – I’m tall and long-legged; I can only imagine a petite woman trying to wear that skirt. )

Crazy Internet Junkies Society
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

 

[surfinpure]

Ana:

I do not notice AT ALL, nor do I care what other people wear…

This is the only part of what you wrote with which I disagree, or at least cannot relate, particularly as it pertains to Mass. Every time I see someone approach the Holy Eucharist with a midriff showing, or cleavage exposed, or a very high skirt, my spirit grieves. I recall that part of the message of Our Lady of Fatima to Sister Lucia was that this immodesty greatly grieves the heart of God (something to that effect), and I can only imagine how He must feel if this is the gut reaction I have.

I do notice what other people are wearing, and so far as it effects me or my family, I do care. I am tremendously disturbed that my children are growing up in a culture that has turned sexuality into an idol. I am bothered that my husband can’t go into our Catholic church without having to avert his eyes and control his thoughts half a dozen times.

While modesty, just as any virtue, can be taken to an un-virtuous extreme, it is still vitally important.

 

[deb1]

Ana:

I went through the only wearing skirts phase. Thank God I am not there anymore. Only in hindsight did I notice that as my so called “modesty” increased, so did my sense of self righteousness. I spent much more time noticing and pondering what other women were wearing and bemoaning to anyone who would listen the lack of “modest attire.” This is true of EVERYONE I know who only wears skirts. You can tell these people, because they throw in the fact that they only wear skirts whenever possible and LOVE modesty threads.

!

I, myself, am emerging from an only dress wearing phase.The same type of self righteousness that you described was developing in me. I still am for modesty, but I can use common sense now.

 

[misericordie]

CarolAnnSFO:

Great post, Ana! That is a very healthy attitude towards modesty.

I’m focusing on your statement “Wear shoes that make you happy.” That’s what I do! Yesterday, I wore a broomstick skirt with two knit tops to Mass (the second top underneath, because the one I wore over it had a neckline a lot more plunging than I like). And my shoes? They were fisherman’s sandals, with ankle socks! I think the sandals go very well with my Franciscan Tau. I wear socks, because nylon irritates my skin, so I avoid nylons like the plague. Now, many people might think the sandals and ankle socks look ridiculous with the rest of my outfit, but I never let that bother me!

(For what it’s worth, the skirt is ankle length. I have no idea why the manufacturers make them so long – I’m tall and long-legged; I can only imagine a petite woman trying to wear that skirt. )

Crazy Internet Junkies Society
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

Is there a great orthodox web-site or an address where a person can write to obtain more information on the history and life of Saint Francis and the early Franciscans (a true faithful non LIBERAL interpretation)? Also, what is the history of that Tao Cross? Etc.

 

[Ana]

surf(name removed by moderator)ure:

This is the only part of what you wrote with which I disagree, or at least cannot relate, particularly as it pertains to Mass. Every time I see someone approach the Holy Eucharist with a midriff showing, or cleavage exposed, or a very high skirt, my spirit grieves. I recall that part of the message of Our Lady of Fatima to Sister Lucia was that this immodesty greatly grieves the heart of God (something to that effect), and I can only imagine how He must feel if this is the gut reaction I have…

I can’t say that on I don’t notice AT ALL, sometimes people’s attire is certainly eyecatching. Like those Goth people with the black make-up and excessive piercings and crazy hairdos. I sometimes have trouble not staring.

I do agree that Our Lord is worthy of tasteful dress, and especially in the summer months, sadly … it isn’t always the case, but we must strive to remember that these people are God’s children. That God knows their hearts and holds them accountable for what they know. I believe that it would be an isolated few that dressed immodestly for the purpose of offending God. Most likely these girls are desensitized by culture but incredibly sincere. ( I have seen many young teenage girls dressed for a beach party in deep prayer after receiving communion.) Or that an immodestly dressed individual has a distorted view of her own sexuality, of her own beauty and dignity in womanhood. This is very sad and I believe God looks with mercy and LOVE on these persons. As he does on all of us sinners.
Patient for us to hear His promptings and respond to His call in our lives, pertaining to what HE wants to work on at that time. What’s the difference between the immodestly dressed person’s sin and our own? Because one is exterior, as opposed to another’s (or our own) that may be hidden? One can argue that exterior sins can lead others to sin, well so can interior ones. It is recommended that we seek the good in people, excusing other’s while accusing ourselves.
We would be better served to focus our attention on our own sins worshipping our Most Holy Trinity during Mass, than looking around at others being offended on His behalf. I began closing my eyes to better concentrate and participate at Mass (except to grab the hymn book etc.) I found it so beneficial that I do it all the time, but now for other reasons.

God bless!

 

[Ana]

surf(name removed by moderator)ure:

I do notice what other people are wearing, and so far as it effects me or my family, I do care. I am tremendously disturbed that my children are growing up in a culture that has turned sexuality into an idol. I am bothered that my husband can’t go into our Catholic church without having to avert his eyes and control his thoughts half a dozen times.

.
I need to be more careful with my choice of words. I do care … about THEM, not their clothes.

I sympathize with all men, married or single, attempting to live a chaste life in our sexually saturated culture. While I commend my husband for averting his eyes, I lovingly remind him that it is in his WEAKNESS, he must avoid his eyes. That this is good for avoiding sin, but to not be satisfied with that. To strive for greater love in Christ to be able to someday, like Him, be able to look at her with a gaze of love. Not a gaze of lustt or condemnation (from a man or woman) but to see this child of God, no matter how dressed, with the eyes of Christ, who I don’t believe for a minute averts His gaze.

I am reminded of a story told about two Bishops attending a public parade. A scantily clad woman atop a float was coming towards them. The one Bishop warned the other to avert his eyes. The bishop replied “why she is one of God’s children?” or something to that effect. He approached the woman, and it was said that he looked at her with such pure eyes of love, that she sensed the love of God in him and repented and lived her life for Christ afterwards.

The pharisees were annoyed with Jesus, because he allowed himself to be touched by Mary Magdalane (probably not considered by most to be modest), but Christ saw something more in her.

God is not taken by surprise by the state of our society, and we can rest assured that He will provide all the graces necessary for His Glory.

It IS difficult and can seem overwhelming trying to raise our children and help our family to live a holy life in the midst of a world so saturated in sin, but be of good cheer, He has overcome the world and in Him we can too.

I have noticed that during many of my trials, God does not lift my cross, but instead gives me the strength to carry it and to bring it to my good and His glory. I ran across a phrase that I felt accurately reflected His parental love for me, and I have embraced it as my motto for raising my children. You may or may not find it helpful.

PREPARE NOT THE PATH FOR THE CHILD, BUT THE CHILD FOR THE PATH.
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:

While modesty, just as any virtue, can be taken to an un-virtuous extreme, it is still vitally important.

.
Yes, modesty is important. Modesty, being a virtue can never be an unvirtue (vice). It would cease to be modesty and be either false modesty (counterfeit) or a different sin altogether such as it’s contrary … vanity or pride.

 

[Ana]

Thank you mercygate, deb, katie, surf(name removed by moderator)ure, for your kind responses. After I submitted my first post, I had this crazy urge to hide from the arrows I was sure were coming!!

 

[surfinpure]

Ana:

We would be better served to focus our attention on our own sins worshipping our Most Holy Trinity during Mass, than looking around at others being offended on His behalf. I began closing my eyes to better concentrate and participate at Mass (except to grab the hymn book etc.) I found it so beneficial that I do it all the time, but now for other reasons.

God bless!

You’ll get no argument from me there! I’ve gotten to the point where I have to close my eyes when possible in order to remember that I’m in Mass. The times I’m referring to are those when I have no choice but to open them, such as walking down the aisle on the way to Communion. And this is when the immodesty bothers me the most.

 

[martino]

surf(name removed by moderator)ure:

You’ll get no argument from me there! I’ve gotten to the point where I have to close my eyes when possible in order to remember that I’m in Mass. The times I’m referring to are those when I have no choice but to open them, such as walking down the aisle on the way to Communion. And this is when the immodesty bothers me the most.

I also keep my eyes shut as much as possible, it helps me to concentrate in general but also keeps me from being distracted by immodesty.

Surf(name removed by moderator)ure…i couldn’t help but try to imagine walking down the isle for Communion with my eyes shut and bumping into everyone on the way down…got a good laugh out of that this morning!

 

[surfinpure]

martino:

Surf(name removed by moderator)ure…i couldn’t help but try to imagine walking down the isle for Communion with my eyes shut and bumping into everyone on the way down…got a good laugh out of that this morning!

Now that would be a whole different set of problems, wouldn’t it?