Drinking

[codefro]

uh,'cause we ain’t puritans?

Epic

 

[codefro]

I enjoyed a can of Sapporo yesterday, and it was quite delicious on a hot day.

 

[andrewstx]

uh,'cause we ain’t puritans?

The puritans were prodgious consumers of beer, to tell the truth.

It was only in the 19th century that the temperance (falsly named) made the consuption of a drop of liqour a “terrible sin”.

No one drinks alcohol, thats what they rub on youir arm before a shot.

I drink beer and wine and occasionally spirits in moderation.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

Just to parrot what the other posters have said thus far, I don’t think drinking in moderation could be harmful really - physically or spiritually.

I haven’t been Catholic for long and I didnt know that being drunk is considered sinful. I always assumed getting drunk frequently would be considered so since thats excessive but I also presumed once in a while would be okay. Could someone please explain why it is sinful? (Not that i’m advocating getting drunk, I just never knew that’s all)

Also apparently Padre Pio had a bottle of beer brought to his cell every night. (Correct me if i’m wrong.) I suppose he would need a drink though after all the confessions he heard daily… especially if people weren’t living good.

It is sinful because when you are truly drunk, you are no longer fully in control of your actions. It certainly puts you in the occasion to sin.

 

[LilyM]

One beer a day a la Padre Pio does not equal drunk nor necessarily even buzzed. Nor alcoholic.

And I think drinking purposely to the point where it noticeably affects concentration or other mental or physical faculties is a sin full stop.

God gave you your mental faculties and to deliberately impair them by use of drugs or alcohol is like spitting on that gift. So if you drink to the point where you know your speech will be even a tiny bit slurred, or keep drinking when you’re a tiny bit gigglier, ruder, less physically co-ordinated or whatever than you would be without the drink then you’ve crossed the line.

 

[underacloud]

One beer a day a la Padre Pio does not equal drunk nor necessarily even buzzed. Nor alcoholic.

And I think drinking purposely to the point where it noticeably affects concentration or other mental or physical faculties is a sin full stop.

But the problem is that being affected by alcohol isn’t a black and white issue…it’s a continuum. A little alcohol has a little effect, a lot of alcohol has a big effect. One beer can certainly affect one to the point that it noticeably affects mental faculties…not necessarily buzzed or drunk, but enough that one ought not to drive for example. Typically, only one or two drinks is not enough to affect driving to this extent, but a lot can depend on other factors such as whether one has recently eaten anything.

Is it sinful to drink to the point where one could not drive? I definitely do not think so. I regularly drink past this point (noting that the legal BAC limit in Australia is 0.05, which is considerably lower than the 0.08 limit in other places). A few glasses of wine at a family lunch will put me over the limit, easily. I’m not so affected that I start acting poorly, saying things I shouldn’t, offending people, etc, but I definitely wouldn’t drive.

I’ll also note that for some priests, I would think that drinking the chalice at mass, depending on how much is left to consume atfer communion, could have the potential to put them over the limit for driving.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

But the problem is that being affected by alcohol isn’t a black and white issue…it’s a continuum. A little alcohol has a little effect, a lot of alcohol has a big effect. One beer can certainly affect one to the point that it noticeably affects mental faculties…not necessarily buzzed or drunk, but enough that one ought not to drive for example. Typically, only one or two drinks is not enough to affect driving to this extent, but a lot can depend on other factors such as whether one has recently eaten anything.

Is it sinful to drink to the point where one could not drive? I definitely do not think so. I regularly drink past this point (noting that the legal BAC limit in Australia is 0.05, which is considerably lower than the 0.08 limit in other places). A few glasses of wine at a family lunch will put me over the limit, easily. I’m not so affected that I start acting poorly, saying things I shouldn’t, offending people, etc, but I definitely wouldn’t drive.

I’ll also note that for some priests, I would think that drinking the chalice at mass, depending on how much is left to consume atfer communion, could have the potential to put them over the limit for driving.

No, it’s not black and white. I think being over the legal driving limit, but not drunk to the point of making poor choices isn’t an issue.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Yes, I do usually just drink one glass of wine/beer or one nip of spirits in a mixed drink. For the taste, as you say. Just like there are people who can happily restrict themselves to just one piece of chocolate/cake/pie and not overindulge.

And pubs and bars DO serve non-alcoholic drinks y’know So if I’m still thirsty I go for those. Who’s to know - or care for that matter - whether that orange juice or cola you’re drinking has a nip of something alcoholic in it or not? It’s not like I make a big deal out of having only one drink or not drinking on those occasions when I don’t.

Most of the people I know have similar habits. So they’re not going to look at me funny for not chugging a dozen beers or anything.

To each his/her own, I guess… just seems kinda pointless. Does anyone really think alcohol tastes great? Note: I’m not talking about beer or wine, etc., I’m talking about the alcohol in it. In other words, you’re treating alcohol as if it is a flavor enhancer… lol, I don’t get that.

Anyway, if I’m going to drink, I’ll always drink a few. It’s relaxing, loosens you up a bit, etc. Not sloppy drunk or anything, but frankly the idea of going to a bar to have one beer is like going to a baseball game and staying for 3 innings… haha.

Actually, I don’t see what’s so controversial about that. People consume things for more than just the taste/nutrition.

Caffeine is a good example. Maybe some people drink coffee only for the flavor, but I suspect those ranks are slim. A lot of people like the taste AND find that having 2 cups a day, or maybe even 3 or 4 cups on a particularly dreary day, helps to keep them alert. Does that mess with your body chemistry? Absolutely it does. Is it sinful? I highly doubt it. Also, realistically, I bet you that the effects of a single beer/wine might be similar (in power, not in kind) to the effects of just a half a cup of coffee… should a good Catholic refrain from drinking an entire cup of coffee? Heheh.

Now the same thing is true here, that if you’re self-medicating to the point where coffee (or other caffeine products) are consumed daily in sizable amounts, then it means you’re using it as an aide to cope with real-life problems that you aren’t addressing, which is almost definitely sinful.

See, if you’re going to say that it’s universally bad to imbibe more than one drink, or to feel any effect whatever, then that is taking it almost to the level of Puritanism anyway, in my opinion. (In the way the word Puritan is typically used, since apparently Puritans did drink.)

underacloud:

Is it sinful to drink to the point where one could not drive? I definitely do not think so.

I agree, probably not sinful.

If you’re in a situation where you have to drive later and you know you have to drive later… say, you don’t have a ride home and are outside of walking distance from your home, then I would say that might be sinful… because you are tempting fate both for yourself and others.

Otherwise, probably not sinful.

I’ll also note that for some priests, I would think that drinking the chalice at mass, depending on how much is left to consume atfer communion, could have the potential to put them over the limit for driving.

I used to be a Sacristan and I would say that (from what I’ve seen, at least) that is rare, but still quite possible. Some Priests (like some people) will naturally have less tolerance than others.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

To each his/her own, I guess… just seems kinda pointless. Does anyone really think alcohol tastes great? Note: I’m not talking about beer or wine, etc., I’m talking about the alcohol in it. In other words, you’re treating alcohol as if it is a flavor enhancer… lol, I don’t get that.

Anyway, if I’m going to drink, I’ll always drink a few. It’s relaxing, loosens you up a bit, etc. Not sloppy drunk or anything, but frankly the idea of going to a bar to have one beer is like going to a baseball game and staying for 3 innings… haha.

Actually, I don’t see what’s so controversial about that. People consume things for more than just the taste/nutrition.

Caffeine is a good example. Maybe some people drink coffee only for the flavor, but I suspect those ranks are slim. A lot of people like the taste AND find that having 2 cups a day, or maybe even 3 or 4 cups on a particularly dreary day, helps to keep them alert. Does that mess with your body chemistry? Absolutely it does. Is it sinful? I highly doubt it. Also, realistically, I bet you that the effects of a single beer/wine might be similar (in power, not in kind) to the effects of just a half a cup of coffee… should a good Catholic refrain from drinking an entire cup of coffee? Heheh.

Now the same thing is true here, that if you’re self-medicating to the point where coffee (or other caffeine products) are consumed daily in sizable amounts, then it means you’re using it as an aide to cope with real-life problems that you aren’t addressing, which is almost definitely sinful.

You see, I actually do drink beer/wine for flavor. I also like a cup of black coffee once in a while, but don’t drink coffee everyday or really need the caffeine. Different taste buds, I guess.

 

[tabycat]

If my memery is right, Jesus’s Mother asked Him to help a bridegroom, and He did by turning water into wine at Cana. Also, Docter Luke sent a message to Thimathy, by way of Paul, to ‘take a little wine for his stomic’.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

You see, I actually do drink beer/wine for flavor. I also like a cup of black coffee once in a while, but don’t drink coffee everyday or really need the caffeine. Different taste buds, I guess.

Sorry, I don’t necessarily hate the taste, and I’m willing to accept that some just love it.

However, I’ve got a hard time believing that the taste is the most frequent reason people have it, and I don’t think that the “other” reason is inherently wrong. I’ll bet you that the “other” reason made Cana a heck of a lot more fun.

Look at chocolate, too. Even a moderate amount can be mind-altering, and though we think taste is the only reason people like chocolate, it just isn’t the case. It does, in fact, produce feelings of happiness.

In any event, I think having 3 or 4 glasses of wine once a week is hardly comparable to LSD or something. Addiction, dependence, these are different discussions.

 

[migueltojose]

And on the night he was arrested, the night of the last supper, Jesus said to his disciples… and I paraphrase… I shall no longer be able to share the fruit of the vine with you… of all the things he could of said. of all the things he did say. that he said that, is amazing. i will drink to that… i think him and the boys had a lot of fun together, lots of laughs and good times… not to be disrespectful… but you gotta figure if he’d been wating around for about 15or 20 billion years, you know he enjoyed his time on earth… immensely… i get chills just thinking about it…

---

Tune In - to the Holy Spirit; Turn On - to Jesus Christ; Drop Out - of the culture of death…

 

[bouncebanana]

Don’t drink and drive.

 

[Corki]

Unless you’re just a chronic binge drinker, I suspect most people can feel the effects of alcohol even after just 2 drinks or so, maybe 3 tops. Which is not to say drunk, but feeling the effects for sure.

I mean, I’m a pretty big dude and I feel it after 2-3.

So to those of you that take this matter very seriously, my question is: do you feel the effects of just 2 or 3 drinks? If so, do you ever go out to the bar/pub/‘theology on tap’ etc.? Because I’m wondering, how would that work exactly? I

I mean, you go to a bar… you sip the same beer or the same glass of wine for 2 hours? Why bother? Do you drink a single drink just for the “taste” then??

Or are we saying that there is some kind of ethical difference between “feeling” alcohol and being “drunk”?

I think there is a difference between feeling the effects and drunkenness. Alchol is a depressant - it can make a person calmer. It it only when it starts to impair judgement that it becomes sinful.

When I go to a bar with friends, I am usually the designated driver so it’s not an issue. But at my height/weight, I could have 3 or 4 drinks in an evening at the bar and not be drunk. I wouldn’t drive but I would still be in control of my judgement.

There are times when I have a single drink for the taste - usually wine that pairs well with a type of food I am having for dinner.

 

[bearer]

The first miracle Jesus performed in His public ministry was to turn water into wine so that the wedding guests would be able to continue their celebration of God’s gift of marriage. Drinking is not only moral, but biblical.

It’s drinking to excess that is sinful. That’s the case with most things in life. Overindulgence in just about anything can be harmful physically, mentally, and spiritually.

 

[Son_of_Jonah]

I’ve always had particular trouble deciding what my limit is… I’ve been told by my confessor on more than one occasion that it is only sinful - and mortally so - to drink to the point of rendering your reason impaired. In other words, when you begin to make decisions under the influence that you would not normally make sober, it’s a sin. My problem is that I have been what most people would consider “drunk” on 3-4 occasions. I experienced some level of impairment in sight, speech, and mobility. I’ve even been drunk to the point of illness. But I’ve never actually lost my ability to make sound moral judgments. I have been offered, many times, to engage in certain “extracurricular activities” while under the influence that I have never even been tempted to consider.

My question is whether or not this constituted drunkenness to a mortally sinful extent (it’s all been confessed and is well in my past, so this is a hypothetical discussion more than anything else…) My confessor was very insistent on the point that our limit in terms of morality is when we lose the ability to reason. However, no matter how drunk I’ve been in the past, I never lost that ability. Now, I’m sure that what I did was sinful as it disrespected my body as a Temple of the Holy Spirit to allow myself to get sick, but even that is largely unintended. But, if my confessor is right, that mortal sin occurs when we can no longer reason, was this mortally wrong?

 

[Nigel7]

If my memery is right, Jesus’s Mother asked Him to help a bridegroom, and He did by turning water into wine at Cana.

Yes, and let’s not forget that Jesus made more wine only because they’d ALREADY DRANK all the wine that was stocked there to begin with.
I get the impression that Jesus and those disciples enjoyed drinking them some wine on occasion.

 

[LilyM]

I’ve always had particular trouble deciding what my limit is… I’ve been told by my confessor on more than one occasion that it is only sinful - and mortally so - to drink to the point of rendering your reason impaired. In other words, when you begin to make decisions under the influence that you would not normally make sober, it’s a sin. My problem is that I have been what most people would consider “drunk” on 3-4 occasions. I experienced some level of impairment in sight, speech, and mobility. I’ve even been drunk to the point of illness. But I’ve never actually lost my ability to make sound moral judgments. I have been offered, many times, to engage in certain “extracurricular activities” while under the influence that I have never even been tempted to consider.

My question is whether or not this constituted drunkenness to a mortally sinful extent (it’s all been confessed and is well in my past, so this is a hypothetical discussion more than anything else…) My confessor was very insistent on the point that our limit in terms of morality is when we lose the ability to reason. However, no matter how drunk I’ve been in the past, I never lost that ability. Now, I’m sure that what I did was sinful as it disrespected my body as a Temple of the Holy Spirit to allow myself to get sick, but even that is largely unintended. But, if my confessor is right, that mortal sin occurs when we can no longer reason, was this mortally wrong?

You drink to the point where you’re sick? Where your sight, speech and mobility are impaired? That, my friend, is you killing brain cells. And liver cells. And damaging your health, possibly permanently, in other ways as well.

What gives you the right to abuse your God-given brain and body in this way?

The idea that you would think it OK to do so is, IMHO, in itself evidence that you did lose your ability to make sound moral judgements on those occasions when you did so. Someone who chooses to damage brain and body is NOT morally thinking soundly.

 

[Phemie]

You see, I actually do drink beer/wine for flavor. I also like a cup of black coffee once in a while, but don’t drink coffee everyday or really need the caffeine. Different taste buds, I guess.

I drink coffee in the morning, for the taste. I don’t really notice that it gives me energy or makes me more alert. I could drink tea for the same ‘effect’ but can’t stand it on an empty stomach – tea is my ‘rest of the day’ drink.

I drink wine and beer because I like the taste. If I’m in a situation where I can’t have alcohol, I’d still prefer a non-alcoholic beer (may I recommend O’Douls Amber) to a soft drink, because I like bitter better than sweet. For the same reason I drink dry wine and opt for Tonic (without gin) rather than a soft drink – I haven’t been bothered by malaria in years .

In social situations I will rarely have more than one drink and I never drive within 3 hours of having just one drink. I know that I’m ‘impaired’ after just half a beer. I may be nowhere near the .08 that is the legal limit here but my body is just not functioning in the same way as it would if I hadn’t had a drink. I’m nowhere near drunk, but I’m very aware that my reflexes are not as sharp.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

I’ve always had particular trouble deciding what my limit is… I’ve been told by my confessor on more than one occasion that it is only sinful - and mortally so - to drink to the point of rendering your reason impaired. In other words, when you begin to make decisions under the influence that you would not normally make sober, it’s a sin. My problem is that I have been what most people would consider “drunk” on 3-4 occasions. I experienced some level of impairment in sight, speech, and mobility. I’ve even been drunk to the point of illness. But I’ve never actually lost my ability to make sound moral judgments. I have been offered, many times, to engage in certain “extracurricular activities” while under the influence that I have never even been tempted to consider.

My question is whether or not this constituted drunkenness to a mortally sinful extent (it’s all been confessed and is well in my past, so this is a hypothetical discussion more than anything else…) My confessor was very insistent on the point that our limit in terms of morality is when we lose the ability to reason. However, no matter how drunk I’ve been in the past, I never lost that ability. Now, I’m sure that what I did was sinful as it disrespected my body as a Temple of the Holy Spirit to allow myself to get sick, but even that is largely unintended. But, if my confessor is right, that mortal sin occurs when we can no longer reason, was this mortally wrong?

You see, I would argue that if you are to the point that you throw up, your ability to reason was impaired. It doesn’t have to mean that you then make a choice to sleep with someone who you wouldn’t normally. Your brain is likely much foggier than normal when like this.