Dripping crucifix sparks Indian blasphemy row [CNAU]

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jerry_joseph said:
Here there is no intervention of religion in state matters… Here that atheist is punished for insulting Roman Catholicism by coming to catholic church and showered his prejudices there while church ceremonies are going on there. Is it right?. Tomorrow if a catholic goes to atheists conference and disturbs their conference , same thing will happen. he will also be punished…
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jerry_joseph,

I fail to see the strength of your argument: two wrongs make a right? No, these folks got caught in a lie and are crying foul. The myth-buster didn’t even claim that miracles were impossible in principle, but rather exposed a lie.

This is, or should be, a unifying event for all people of good will (theist or non-theist) to say, having your feelings hurt when a lie is exposed is not disrespecting your religion.

Mike
 
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jerry_joseph,

I fail to see the strength of your argument: two wrongs make a right? No, these folks got caught in a lie and are crying foul. The myth-buster didn’t even claim that miracles were impossible in principle, but rather exposed a lie.

This is, or should be, a unifying event for all people of good will (theist or non-theist) to say, having your feelings hurt when a lie is exposed is not disrespecting your religion.

Mike
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It is not a lie?. What is lie here?.. What he exposed here?. He is showing the possibility that rain water might come through that statue through the walls. But that statue is not attached to any wall. It is in open air. Secondly he says pointing towards the water flow marks in the floor , water may come though that ?. How come water go upwards upto the nails of crucified jesus?.. Also it lasted for so many days. So lay believers considered it as a miracle. Church does not took any official stand in this.
 
I’m sorry jerry_joseph,

I’m unable to make my point any clearer.
 
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I’m sorry jerry_joseph,

I’m unable to make my point any clearer.
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I understood your point…" two wrongs make a right?" …“o say, having your feelings hurt when a lie is exposed is not disrespecting your religion.”

Disrespect in this is not false exposing of miracle of cross. But disturbing religious ceremonies…All atheists are leading by a faith that nothing will go beyond natural laws and for them miracles are Lie, created by religious priests. Is it justifiable to disturb an atheist conference , by a catholic?..

Here what is wrong with catholics,? Did anybody physically hurt him?. They filed a suit against him … It is indian judiciary punished him and not catholic church…
 
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rlg94086 posts from from within the US, while you do not. Might that fact play into your opinions about free speech being illusory? Care to elaborate?
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Unless (name removed by moderator) posts something of substance to back up his off-handed remarks, there is really no need to discuss it with him anymore. There are plenty of people who are hypercritical of the US and feel they need to bring it up in completely unrelated threads.

I would hope everyone beileves in freedom of speech and religion. I am thankful that my country has both, and I’m not sure why some people don’t think both will “work” in other countries. You shouldn’t face jail time or even fines for stating doubt about a miracle and/or “violating the feelings” of others. If there was a violent act or threat involved, it would be a different matter.
 
rlg94086 said:
Unless (name removed by moderator) posts something of substance to back up his off-handed remarks, there is really no need to discuss it with him anymore. There are plenty of people who are hypercritical of the US and feel they need to bring it up in completely unrelated threads.

I would hope everyone beileves in freedom of speech and religion. I am thankful that my country has both, and I’m not sure why some people don’t think both will “work” in other countries. You shouldn’t face jail time or even fines for stating doubt about a miracle and/or “violating the feelings” of others. If there was a violent act or threat involved, it would be a different matter.
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In India also everybody have right to speech and religion. Anybody can belive in any religion or not to believe in any religion. But nobody have right to insult others or disturb others worship.
 
jerry_joseph said:
In India also everybody have right to speech and religion. Anybody can belive in any religion or not to believe in any religion. But nobody have right to insult others or disturb others worship.
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Free speech includes the right to insult others. I don’t see where voicing an anti-religious opinion, vocally or written, in public forums is “disturbing others’ worship.” If by “disturbing others’ worship,” you mean walking into a church and insulting people where they worship, I would agree with you.
 
rlg94086 said:
Free speech includes the right to insult others. I don’t see where voicing an anti-religious opinion, vocally or written, in public forums is “disturbing others’ worship.” If by “disturbing others’ worship,” you mean walking into a church and insulting people where they worship, I would agree with you.
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Yes that’s it…
 
I would have had a bit more time for this man and his views, had he confronted one of the major religions in India - Hinduism, Islam or Sikhism.

Even though I imagine he is right about the dripping water, I deeply resent his comments about “dark ages”.

He knows exactly what would happen if he criticised, say , Hindus or Muslims for their religion (ie he would be quickly and brutally murdered). So, we can see that the dark ages already firmly reside in India.

Additionally, his “dark ages” rubbish is outrageous, considering the “honour killings”, “bride burning”, mass murder and gender selective abortion which is common place in India.

Not to mention that the nation maintains a large army and nucelar weapons, while the majority of its people are illiterate and dirt poor.

He suggests the dripping water is toilet water to dehumanise and mock Christians. Again, daily life in India shows that he should not have chosen this fight. The River Gangees in India functions not only as a toilet for 1000s of people, not only as a watery grave (many corpses are thrown into it), but the exact same water is also used as drinking water and bathing facilities for many 1000s of people.

I resent his “dark ages” comment, given the quality of daily life for many people in India. India is the dark ages - the few have more money and riches than they could ever need, while the majority live in abject squalor.

A typical attention seeking atheist.
 
GWright said:
I would have had a bit more time for this man and his views, had he confronted one of the major religions in India - Hinduism, Islam or Sikhism.

Even though I imagine he is right about the dripping water, I deeply resent his comments about “dark ages”.

He knows exactly what would happen if he criticised, say , Hindus or Muslims for their religion (ie he would be quickly and brutally murdered). So, we can see that the dark ages already firmly reside in India.

Additionally, his “dark ages” rubbish is outrageous, considering the “honour killings”, “bride burning”, mass murder and gender selective abortion which is common place in India.

Not to mention that the nation maintains a large army and nucelar weapons, while the majority of its people are illiterate and dirt poor.

He suggests the dripping water is toilet water to dehumanise and mock Christians. Again, daily life in India shows that he should not have chosen this fight. The River Gangees in India functions not only as a toilet for 1000s of people, not only as a watery grave (many corpses are thrown into it), but the exact same water is also used as drinking water and bathing facilities for many 1000s of people.

I resent his “dark ages” comment, given the quality of daily life for many people in India. India is the dark ages - the few have more money and riches than they could ever need, while the majority live in abject squalor.

A typical attention seeking atheist.
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I agree he is a “typical, attention-seeking atheist,” but he does seem to take on multiple religions: indianrationalists.blogspot.com/

His comments on Blessed Mother Theresa show he is a complete moron.
 
rlg94086 said:
Free speech includes the right to insult others. I don’t see where voicing an anti-religious opinion, vocally or written, in public forums is “disturbing others’ worship.” If by “disturbing others’ worship,” you mean walking into a church and insulting people where they worship, I would agree with you.
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Free speech is defined differently in India and the US and IMHO, for good reason. Religion is much more central to all aspects of life and religious insults can start public disorder which can get people killed, just like shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded theater could. Therefore, free speech in India does not include the right to insult another’s religion publicly.

I have heard of jurisdictions in southern Africa where one can be jailed for accusing another of witchcraft. That is also good in my mind, because such an accusation can not only get someone ejected from his/her community, but can put that person’s life in grave danger.

Free speech is not more important than other rights, certainly not more than people’s right to simply keep on inhaling and exhaling.
 
seekerz said:
Free speech is defined differently in India and the US and IMHO, for good reason. Religion is much more central to all aspects of life and religious insults can start public disorder which can get people killed, just like shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded theater could. Therefore, free speech in India does not include the right to insult another’s religion publicly.

I have heard of jurisdictions in southern Africa where one can be jailed for accusing another of witchcraft. That is also good in my mind, because such an accusation can not only get someone ejected from his/her community, but can put that person’s life in grave danger.

Free speech is not more important than other rights, certainly not more than people’s right to simply keep on inhaling and exhaling.
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:rolleyes:

Nice hyperbole.
 
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