Driver paid $97,500 from teachers union

[condan]

David_Paul:

Good job security.

UFT pact protects another unfit teacher

New York Daily News
July 11, 2005

Where else but in the New York City public schools would a drug addict be in charge of a student drug prevention program?

And where else would school officials find themselves barred from firing said addict despite a felony conviction?

nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/326839p-279421c.html

One of the great job benefits of the UFT is the “sabbatical” program where you get paid your full salary for a year and a half to take such meaningful programs such as “stress management” and pottery.

And they wonder why our children can’t read.

 

[Richardols]

condan:

I’m curious: Why do teachers need a union? Aren’t they able to speak for themselves? Its not as if they are uneducated mill, assembly line or factory workers who are easily abused and at the mercy of corrupt corporate entities. I thought teachers were well educated professionals perfectly capable of articulating their needs.

You are in error. Teachers are treated by their school boards as ordinary employees, not as professionals. As for a union, that is simply allowing another person to speak on one’s behalf.

Gee, maybe they do need unions at that.

A union can help teachers, just as well as any other group of workers…

 

[Richardols]

condan:

One of the great job benefits of the UFT is the “sabbatical” program where you get paid your full salary for a year and a half to take such meaningful programs such as “stress management” and pottery.

You make it sound as though teachers can take a “sabbatical” every couple of years.

Because of her Stage 4 uterine cancer, my wife had to apply for a medical leave of absence/sabbatical to be able to take six months off. Getting the “sabbatical” was not easy, and she had to have certification from her physician, and go through quite a bit of paperwork. And, at that, she was entitled only to 60% of her salary.

BTW, she’s not taking pottery lessons or stress management workshops.

 

[Lizzie]

David_Paul:

Good job security.

UFT pact protects another unfit teacher

New York Daily News
July 11, 2005

Where else but in the New York City public schools would a drug addict be in charge of a student drug prevention program?

And where else would school officials find themselves barred from firing said addict despite a felony conviction?

nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/326839p-279421c.html

This teacher’s union actively works against the interest of students. This teacher’s union protects those who are a threat to society.

 

[Karin]

Richardols:

You make it sound as though teachers can take a “sabbatical” every couple of years.

Because of her Stage 4 uterine cancer, my wife had to apply for a medical leave of absence/sabbatical to be able to take six months off. Getting the “sabbatical” was not easy, and she had to have certification from her physician, and go through quite a bit of paperwork. And, at that, she was entitled only to 60% of her salary.

BTW, she’s not taking pottery lessons or stress management workshops.

This is no different than applying for time off using FMLA ( Family and Medical Leave Act ) except under FMLA you can take 12 months of unpaid leave. dol.gov/elaws/esa/fmla/s1.asp
As to a union helping people…yeah themselves! The UFT isno better than the NEA…they are just both as rotten!!!

 

[Philip_P]

condan:

The fact is that teachers have unions so they can lie sideways in the public trough at the taxpayers’ expense just like any other civil servant. The fact is that our children are getting nothing more than the bare minimum, the drop-out rates are skyrocketing and illiteracy is at an all-time high. Of note, when school district budgets are presented, more often than not, they are voted down because the taxpayers are sick and tired of funding the corruption and mediocrity of today’s teachers who seem completely incapable of stringing more than seven words together to make a coherent sentence.

From this, and other such comments made by many, it sounds like it’s not the union people have problems with, but the teachers.

If the problem is truly incompetent teachers, maybe the question we should be asking is why we can’t hire better teachers? Some of the blame surely lies in parent organizations and in the school districts (officials of which are generally elected by the parents…).

Just as in any labor-management issue, but even more so in this case, far more progress is made when the relationship is not adversarial but cooperative. Rather than bashing unions and teachers, all players - teachers, parents, district officials - should be working to make teacher positions more attractive so as to recruit and retain highly qualified applicants.

Many who hate unions seem to think teachers are overpaid, but just as in the profit sector, you get what you pay for. Insist on paying shoddy wages, don’t be surprised at shoddy results.

Personally, considering the working conditions and compensation of a typical inner-city teacher, I’m surprised there are as many good teachers as there are.

 

[Lizzie]

Unions protect incompetent teachers and throw up roadblocks to prevent them from being fired. NYC is famous for this.

 

[Lance]

As I said in another thread, no one is forcing the administration to agree to any outrageous demands of the teachers union. These demands should be brought up at negotation time and if they are unacceptable taken out of the contract or the wording changed so that they are acceptable. The public would back any administration who told the union to take a hike to demands such as allowing convicted child molesters or drug users to work in the system until some arbitrator can hear the case at $1000 per day to be payed by the school district. The administrations and their lawyers are either lazy or incompetent in many school districts. Lets put the blame where it belongs, on the administrations and school boards.

 

[Philip_P]

Lizzie:

Unions protect incompetent teachers and throw up roadblocks to prevent them from being fired. NYC is famous for this.

Unions protect teachers. Some of them are incompetent, some of them are not.

If the school system is filled with incompetent teachers, again, I say look to the hiring managers and the quality of the hiring pool.

You could get rid of the teacher’s union tomorrow and you wouldn’t be a single step closer to making universal quality education a reality.

 

[Richardols]

Lance:

The public would back any administration who told the union to take a hike to demands

Frankly, Lance, I don’t think the public pays any attention to any School Board/Teachers negotiations.

The only thing the public wants is not to have to pay any more taxes to support better schools. IMO and observation.

 

[Lance]

Richardols:

Frankly, Lance, I don’t think the public pays any attention to any School Board/Teachers negotiations.

The only thing the public wants is not to have to pay any more taxes to support better schools. IMO and observation.

You are right, but they should not blame the union for the failings of the people they elected to run things.

 

[Richardols]

Lance:

You are right, but they should not blame the union for the failings of the people they elected to run things.

The unions are convenient whipping boys. Even if a union was perfect, it can’t be blamed for having some bad members.

Even during the heyday of the Hoffas’ corruption in the Teamsters, numerous Locals were squeaky clean and honest. But, they were lumped in with the crooks.

 

[Lance]

Richardols:

The unions are convenient whipping boys. Even if a union was perfect, it can’t be blamed for having some bad members.

Even during the heyday of the Hoffas’ corruption in the Teamsters, numerous Locals were squeaky clean and honest. But, they were lumped in with the crooks.

As someone who has worked as a union member and been a manager in a union shop, I prefer to work in a non-union shop but manage in a union shop. Managing union workers is very easy, just follow the contract to the letter. Some guy complins he works harder than the guy next to him and makes the same money, you can tell him to talk to the union, you can’t give him a raise. You can get rid of bad workers, all you have to do is document their performance and follow the rules of the contract. When I managed union workers I always tried to get merit increases included in the contract and the union fought it, so we did not get them because I was unwilling to ‘go to the mat’ over them. There are bad union bosses just as there are bad company bosses, and there are good people on both sides who realize that what is good for the worker is probably good for the company and what is good for the company will be good for the worker. Yes, there are people on both sides who will take advantage, but it seems to me that most of the time the give and take of union/managment works pretty well. When unions and managment work together it does not make the news because who wants to hear a story about how they got together and solved a problem?

 

[condan]

Richardols:

You are in error. Teachers are treated by their school boards as ordinary employees, not as professionals. As for a union, that is simply allowing another person to speak on one’s behalf.

A union can help teachers, just as well as any other group of workers…

Hardly. A person with a masters degree (required after five years) is clearly a professional. Such a person does not need a mouthpiece. Having one degrades their standing and removes any credibility.

 

[condan]

Richardols:

You make it sound as though teachers can take a “sabbatical” every couple of years.

Because of her Stage 4 uterine cancer, my wife had to apply for a medical leave of absence/sabbatical to be able to take six months off. Getting the “sabbatical” was not easy, and she had to have certification from her physician, and go through quite a bit of paperwork. And, at that, she was entitled only to 60% of her salary.

BTW, she’s not taking pottery lessons or stress management workshops.

Let me get my next-door-neighbor to show her the ropes.

 

[condan]

Lance:

As I said in another thread, no one is forcing the administration to agree to any outrageous demands of the teachers union. These demands should be brought up at negotation time and if they are unacceptable taken out of the contract or the wording changed so that they are acceptable. The public would back any administration who told the union to take a hike to demands such as allowing convicted child molesters or drug users to work in the system until some arbitrator can hear the case at $1000 per day to be payed by the school district. The administrations and their lawyers are either lazy or incompetent in many school districts. Lets put the blame where it belongs, on the administrations and school boards.

Two words: Teachers’ strike.

Lived through one for two months back in the '60s. NYC was in a state of chaos.

 

[condan]

Philip P:

Unions protect teachers. Some of them are incompetent, some of them are not.

If the school system is filled with incompetent teachers, again, I say look to the hiring managers and the quality of the hiring pool.

You could get rid of the teacher’s union tomorrow and you wouldn’t be a single step closer to making universal quality education a reality.

Private schools consistently outscore public schools and the teachers are paid,on average, 50% of what the unionized public school teachers make.

There is nothing wrong with the hiring pool. Education graduates come out of the same schools. The ones who opt for the private environment are the ones who are truly dedicated to the children, as proven by the fact that they do it for far less money. Public school teachers are looking for a presigious union gig with summers off.

 

[Richardols]

condan:

Hardly. A person with a masters degree (required after five years) is clearly a professional. Such a person does not need a mouthpiece. Having one degrades their standing and removes any credibility.

Let me tell you from direct experience and that of my wife that a teacher, even with a Masters+ as she has, is, as I said, “treated by their school boards as any other group of workers.” In many schools districts, a teacher is like a janitor is like a cafeteria worker is like an administrative assistant.

A union means solidarity and in solidarity is strength. Teachers gain, not lose, by their association with a union, and even when they are not members, gain by what the teachers’ union gains for all of them.

 

[Richardols]

condan:

Public school teachers are looking for a presigious union gig with summers off.

Perhaps you haven’t heard, but parochial school teachers also have summers off.

Also, there’s nothing prestigious about being a member of a union. Like joining any union, one asssociates with one for the benefits it can provide.

 

[Lance]

My daughter is a public school teacher in Aurora, IL. There is very little prestigious about her work. She teaches 3rd grade, spends her own money to decorate her room and buy books for her room so the kids will have something to take home and read other than ‘school books’. She has doctor’s kids and kids from the projects. Some of the kids from the projects say they don’t have any books at home other than what she gives them. She spends the week before school starts getting her room ready and the week after it is out taking all the stuff down. She workes about a 9 hour day, graduated suma cum laud and is working on her Master’s and makes about $32,000 per year. She does it because she loves it not for the money or prestige. Her husband is a drill rig operator with a high school degree and he makes about $80,000. Most people don’t go into teaching for the money, no matter whether they are in public or private education. They do it because they want to. There are lots of jobs that pay better and require less education and dedication.