Driver paid $97,500 from teachers union

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bapcathluth:
I have taught for many years, and have never seen a teacher who couldn’t read and write. I really challenge that assumption since the numbers there, obviously, are negligable. I have seen teachers who are less than stellar, but this happens in all professions. I believe that being a good or great teacher is truly an art and a gift.
I suggest you visit Phillips and Lee Counties in Arkansas (adult illiteracy rates of 43% and 45%, respectively.) There you will find functionally illiterate teachers.
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bapcathluth:
It takes much more than knowledge of subject matter to be a good teacher.
The problem is, it takes more subject matter knowledge than many teachers have. The Education majors tend to be the bottom of the ladder in college.
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bapcathluth:
I don’t think pedagogical classes alone will help here, but they are better than nothing. I know plenty of math and science geniuses–my husband has a Ph.D in physics–but many of them couldn’t teach their way out of a paper bag.
On the other hand, many others are better than most certified teachers. My company, Link, worked the Basic Skills Education Program for the military – our job was to bring highschool graduates up to speed on reading, writing and math – fixing what the public schools broke.

We had very few certified teachers – they couldn’t meet our standards. Of course, we actually had to produce graduates who could read and write – we couldn’t socially promote anyone.
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bapcathluth:
Your tatoo and circumcision remark is ridiculous. To compare a few prepatory classes for teaching and supervised student teaching to tatoos makes no sense whatsoever and shows that your hatred of teachers’ unions has you grasping for straws, Mr. Humphrey.
Your demand that highly qualified people jump through paper hoops shows your fear of qualified people in the classroom, Ms Bapcathluth.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
vern humphrey:
No doubt he should also have himself circumsized and tatooed.

He’s qualified. He’s better at math and science than any teacher in the district.

The idea that he has to drive many miles to take the courses that would contribute nothing to his capabilities is in itself proof that the teachers unions have worked to close off the profession to many qualified people.
Just because you have a ton of qualifications doesn’t mean you know how to convey them to young adults. We all remember that one kid in our math or science classes who never took notes and was always bored, but made straight A’s in the class. And whenever you asked them for help, they looked at you like you were an idiot for not getting it. Perfect example of knowing the material inside and out, but not being a to pass on the knowledge to someone else.
 
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Richardols:
Believe it or not, Vern, teachers don’t vote on every last thing the union does. Neither do the members of other unions take a vote each time their union takes action on something.
You’re makin’ my point for me, Richard. Union management exploits its position – and it ain’t just the Teamsters where this happens.

As for no one having to join a union – that’s like saying no one has to join a gang in prison.
 
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wabrams:
Just because you have a ton of qualifications doesn’t mean you know how to convey them to young adults. We all remember that one kid in our math or science classes who never took notes and was always bored, but made straight A’s in the class. And whenever you asked them for help, they looked at you like you were an idiot for not getting it. Perfect example of knowing the material inside and out, but not being a to pass on the knowledge to someone else.
And…having a teaching degree doesn’t mean that you can teach:D
or that you are “proficent” in the subjects that you are teaching. I have had a gym teacher attempt to teach math…when all they can teach is gym…go figure.
 
Originally Posted by Richardols
Believe it or not, Vern, teachers don’t vote on every last thing the union does. Neither do the members of other unions take a vote each time their union takes action on something
I guess union members only vote on things that they want…health, pay etc. and to heck with the rest of what the union is doing??? Oh I forgot you and the wife are pro-union…as long as she has the health benefits who cares that the NEA is supporting Planned Parenthood and gay rights etc.???
 
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Richardols:
How nice of you, Vern, to exclude politicians (why am I not surprised?) and parents as part of the problem. Everything would be just perfect if teachers were forbidden to organize, if all administrators were fired, and if less than outstanding teachers were also fired.
Oh, I do blame politicians, Richard. I blame those Regressives going around and telling people No Child Left Behind is bad for them (just as a generation ago, their predecessors went around telling Blacks that registering and voting were bad for them.)

I blame the unholy alliance of teacher’s unions and politicians which delayed the start of NCLB in Arkansas for another year – thus trapping children in substandard schools for another year.

I blame the Catholic Church, too – for neglecting our Catholic schools and letting them decline in an era when we should have been expanding and creating new schools.
 
Well, Mr. Humphrey, I forgot that Arkansas is your home state. Why is it that Wisconsin students score so much higher than Arkansas children on standardized tests? I would submit that the socioeconomic level of people in Wisconsin is higher and also that teachers are paid much more in Wisconsin.
 
**Wisonsin

426** Public school districts

2,092 Public schools

892,000 K-12 enrollment

**17.4% **Minority students

**14% **Children in poverty

**12.5% **Students with disabilities

$6.3 billion Annual K-12 expenditures
*(all revenue sources) *

Arkansas

311 Public school districts

1,104 Public schools

461,000 K-12 enrollment

**26.7% **Minority students

**22% **Children in poverty

**10.4% **Students with disabilities

$2.1 billion Annual K-12 expenditures
*(all revenue sources)
 
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bapcathluth:
Well, Mr. Humphrey, I forgot that Arkansas is your home state. Why is it that Wisconsin students score so much higher than Arkansas children on standardized tests? I would submit that the socioeconomic level of people in Wisconsin is higher and also that teachers are paid much more in Wisconsin.
Well, Ms. Bapcathluth, Arkansas has been firmly in the grip of the Democratic Party since Reconstruction in 1877. Responding to the pressures of the Education lobby, the legislature does things like maintain more than 300 school districts in a state that has only 75 counties (the better to employ more high-paid administrative personnel.) They also deferred entering the No Child Left Behind program – apparently believeing that you can put the children in the freezer and thaw them out when the system finally improves.

As to pay, I take it your theory is if you give a functionally illiterate teacher a raise, he will suddenly learn to read?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
vern humphrey:
As to pay, I take it your theory is if you give a functionally illiterate teacher a raise, he will suddenly learn to read?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
I think her point is more along the lines that if you pay teachers competitive wages, you will attract higher quality teachers.

As to Dem vs. Rep, not sure how relevant or accurate that is. After all, AR was “red” while WI was “blue” in 04. I would guess that a WI democrat is as different from your typical AR democrat as our republicans here in NY are different from your republicans in other states.
 
Philip P:
I think her point is more along the lines that if you pay teachers competitive wages, you will attract higher quality teachers.
Would the pay raise include firing the incompetents, so better teachers could be hired?

Right here in my home county, we “consolidated” three districts with the aim of saving money by cutting overhead, and devotiig the savings to classroom instructions.

Guess how many overhead people got laid off?

None. Every one of them has a job in the new consolidated district. At the same pay rate as before
Philip P:
As to Dem vs. Rep, not sure how relevant or accurate that is. After all, AR was “red” while WI was “blue” in 04. I would guess that a WI democrat is as different from your typical AR democrat as our republicans here in NY are different from your republicans in other states.
Our state legislature is more than 75% Democratic. The current Republican governor is only the third one in 130 years.
 
Philip P:
I think her point is more along the lines that if you pay teachers competitive wages, you will attract higher quality teachers.
**
I think the point is bigger than paying teachers in Arkansas more… Arkansas is still trying to solve long-standing problems with low student achievement and limited resources.

*Despite new standards and higher teacher salaries, Arkansas still trails most of the nation on many measures, chiefly student performance and adequate resources for schools. *In fact, the state spends less per student than the national average, even after adjusting for the lower cost of education in Arkansas.

*The poor showings fly in the face of reform efforts in Arkansas dating to the early 1980s. Under then-Gov. Bill Clinton, the state poured new money into its schools by raising teachers’ pay and, at the same time, requiring teachers to take competency tests. *

*In the 1990s, the state followed the national trend of setting academic standards–which it calls curriculum frameworks–and creating assessments to determine whether students are learning what’s in them. *

*Now, Gov. Mike Huckabee, a Republican, is emphasizing K-4 reading and math instruction, with the goal of increasing the number of students who meet or exceed grade-level expectations. *

*Arkansas’ investment in new standards and assessments has so far returned data from only one exam–and it offers an even bleaker picture than NAEP. On the High School Proficiency Exam the state first administered in 1996, fewer than half the state’s 11th and 12th graders met the literacy standard each of the first three times the test was given, and fewer than 20 percent of the students in each testing group displayed competency in math as measured against the state standards. *

*“We have a disconnect between what the teachers are teaching and the tests are testing. Most teachers teach what’s in the textbooks, not what’s in the standards,” says Betty Pickett, the chairwoman of the state school board. *

*“Bringing [the standards] down to the classroom instructional level requires more effort than many schools have been able to give,” adds Benny L. Gooden, the superintendent of the 12,500-student Fort Smith school district, near the state’s western border. “We’ve had a minimum level of assistance from the state.” *

*Another local administrator suggests that teachers will pay more attention to the curriculum frameworks now that the assessment system is established in high schools and is moving into the lower grades. *

*“So much time has been spent on creating the standards,” says Marsha Jones, the assistant superintendent of curriculum and instruction for the 11,000-student Springdale schools in the northwest corner of the state, “but until you do the assessments, you can’t say you’re working in a standards-driven environment.” *

*Despite the early troubles, state leaders are determined to stay on course, but they have made some changes. *

*The High School Proficiency Exam, for example, was designed to be an exit test, but in 1997 the legislature removed it as a graduation requirement. Still, the test, which became an end-of-level exam, will be given to every senior starting with the Class of 2000. The math section will be administered when students complete algebra and geometry. Teachers may factor in the scores when they determine students’ grades; in addition, assessment scores will be listed on students’ transcripts. By the spring of 2001, tests will be ready in biology and civics. *

*The state also will continue developing tests for 4th graders and 8th graders. In February 1998, the 4th graders took the first version of a new state exam, and the 8th grade assessment is scheduled to be given for the first time in February of this year. **In the interim, the state continues to mandate that 5th, 7th, and 10th graders take the Stanford Achievement Test-9th Edition. While the state is crafting its own tests, it is using the results from the Stanford standardized tests as the basis for its accountability system. *
Most academic-distress districts are small, rural, poor, and predominantly African-American in enrollment. For example, three of the four districts in Phillips County in the heart of the impoverished Mississippi Delta region landed on the list. counts.edweek.org/sreports/qc99/states/policy/ar-up.htm
 
Thank you, phil, for driving my point home. I know that Vernhumphrey would like to blame the Democrats, but Wisconsin has been not only Democratic, but even further left–Progressive and Socialistic in its past. Fighting Bob Lafollette was a popular Wisconsin politician who led the Progressive party and Milwaukee has had more than one Socialist mayor. Yet, our schools are much, much better than those of Arkansas.

Why? We pay for them and value them. We also have less poverty in general. I would say an educated populace helps on that count.
 
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bapcathluth:
Thank you, phil, for driving my point home. I know that Vernhumphrey would like to blame the Democrats, but Wisconsin has been not only Democratic, but even further left–Progressive and Socialistic in its past. Fighting Bob Lafollette was a popular Wisconsin politician who led the Progressive party and Milwaukee has had more than one Socialist mayor. Yet, our schools are much, much better than those of Arkansas.

Why? We pay for them and value them. We also have less poverty in general. I would say an educated populace helps on that count.
Your schools may be better than those in Arkansas, but they are still not that good. No state in the union has uniformly high quality public schools.
 
vern humphrey:
Your schools may be better than those in Arkansas, but they are still not that good. No state in the union has uniformly high quality public schools.
No state in the union has uniformly high quality schools, period. Public or private, there are excellent and poor schools in every city and state.
 
look at today headlines in the New York Daily Post…
Teacher nabbed in sex sting …article goes on to say…
Schaefer, who earns $69,359 per year as a tenured teacher, has been reassigned to administrative duties away from children pending the outcome of the criminal investigation, said Education Department spokesman Michele Higgins.
nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/330405p-282368c.html

If people like this are teaching our kids…we have major problems!!! .
 
Mort Zuckerman and his Daily News represent the liberal Democrats I remember as a kid. Very encouraging his paper is not letting the problems with the unions slide.

I don’t know how many more Zuckermans I want because if there are too many, Democrats will be the majority party again 🙂
 
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Karin:
look at today headlines in the New York Daily Post…
Teacher nabbed in sex sting …article goes on to say…
Schaefer, who earns $69,359 per year as a tenured teacher, has been reassigned to administrative duties away from children pending the outcome of the criminal investigation, said Education Department spokesman Michele Higgins.
nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/330405p-282368c.html

If people like this are teaching our kids…we have major problems!!! .
There is a term used for the maintaining of bad teachers in the system. It is called ‘Pass the Trash’. Administrators find it easier to reassign problem teachers or send them with good evaluations to other schools rather fight the local teachers’ union.
 
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Lizzie:
There is a term used for the maintaining of bad teachers in the system. It is called ‘Pass the Trash’. Administrators find it easier to reassign problem teachers or send them with good evaluations to other schools rather fight the local teachers’ union.
You bet there is!

When my kids attended York County, Virginia public schools, they had a High Hchool Spanish teacher who was an abomnation. They “solved” the problem by creating a Spanish Department and appointing the Middle School to head it up.

The result was that kids taking their FIRST Spanish course got Mister Incompetent for a teacher. Guess what that did for Spanish instruction!?!?

I should point out that we had a Spanish exchange student one year – and none of the Spanish teachers could talk to him!http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon9.gif
 
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