During shroud display, Turin will forgive women who had abortions

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Robert_Sock said:
Excommunication should be very rare, almost non-existent in the Church. Women who had an abortion should be embraced with great love at all times from within the Church. After all, we are all called to save souls.
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This is what Pope Francis meant by saying that the Catholic Church is a field hospital.We need to meet people where they are.I shudder to think of all the women suffering in silence after havering an abortion.Feeling they are not welcome.😦
On a positive note the Rachael’s Vineyard Ministery is a beautiful and healing catalyst for post abortive women,and men to receive much needed healing and God’s mercy through this weekend retreat. It has changed the lives of countless women,men and even extended family members,who have suffered the effects of abortion.🙂
 
nodito said:
They’re either aware or they’re not. If a person knows that the sin of abortion incurs this penalty and they freely choose to do it anyway, they are choosing to accept the penalty. If they don’t know the penalty, they still commit grave sin but are not excommunicated from the Church. The priest you get in confession doesn’t decide for you and it’s not recorded anywhere.

This is true, and in fact these mitigating circumstances you describe would also make it so the woman would not incur the penalty of excommunication (though abortion remains a grave sin).

This site might be helpful. ewtn.com/expert/answers/abortio2.htm
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So who gets to decide when the circumstance is mitigating? The priest I am assuming. So if the woman gets a different response depending on the priest. That is unacceptable.
 
sttcatherinefan said:
So who gets to decide when the circumstance is mitigating? The priest I am assuming. So if the woman gets a different response depending on the priest. That is unacceptable.
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All priests have to judge mitigating circumstances to advise penitents whether the sins they confess are mortal or to determine whether a penitent is truly repentant. It’s part of the job description. Sure, getting a crabby or ornery priest is a risk, but that’s true of any time you confess. The priests I’ve met in the confessional have overwhelmingly been compassionate, understanding, and merciful.
 
nodito said:
All priests have to judge mitigating circumstances to advise penitents whether the sins they confess are mortal or to determine whether a penitent is truly repentant. It’s part of the job description. Sure, getting a crabby or ornery priest is a risk, but that’s true of any time you confess. The priests I’ve met in the confessional have overwhelmingly been compassionate, understanding, and merciful.
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It seems like many priests, especially many younger priests, are immature when it comes to women. And I’ve had more bad and rote experiences in the Confessional than good ones. I’ve never experienced a compassionate and understanding priest in my life. I compare going to Confession and have since I got force marched done there in Catholic school like getting a dental cleaning. It is something you have to do but is about as fun as that and makes you feel judged.
 
sttcatherinefan said:
It seems like many priests, especially many younger priests, are immature when it comes to women. And I’ve had more bad and rote experiences in the Confessional than good ones. I’ve never experienced a compassionate and understanding priest in my life. I compare going to Confession and have since I got force marched done there in Catholic school like getting a dental cleaning. It is something you have to do but is about as fun as that and makes you feel judged.
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That sounds awful! That hasn’t been my experience at all…
 
sttcatherinefan said:
It seems like many priests, especially many younger priests, are immature when it comes to women. And I’ve had more bad and rote experiences in the Confessional than good ones. I’ve never experienced a compassionate and understanding priest in my life. I compare going to Confession and have since I got force marched done there in Catholic school like getting a dental cleaning. It is something you have to do but is about as fun as that and makes you feel judged.
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I was away from the confessional for nearly thirty years before I found my way back ten years ago.Initially,I was very nervous whenever I planned to go,to the point that I would almost be shaking.Probably for many of the reasons you cite.Having said that,fast forward to today.I go to confession monthly.I no longer dread it,actually look forward to it as I can feel God’s grace working on me.Yes,I still have to humble myself in the confessional,but it is so
worth the effort.I too have walked away at times not feeling as though the priest was attuned to my issues.Mostly though it has been a positive experience.
 
The claim that abortion generally occurs under duress?? What does that mean? Who is forcing adult women in the developed world to kill their unborn babies? I find that hard to believe.

That said, sins committed under duress do not qualify as mortal sin, much less ex-communicable offenses. I say that however, understanding that some peoples definition of duress may not exactly match that of the church.
 
Rubia said:
The claim that abortion generally occurs under duress?? What does that mean? Who is forcing adult women in the developed world to kill their unborn babies? I find that hard to believe.

That said, sins committed under duress do not qualify as mortal sin, much less ex-communicable offenses. I say that however, understanding that some peoples definition of duress may not exactly match that of the church.
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You make some valid points.yet the fact remains that most postabortive women deeply regret their decision to abort,regardless of the circumstances in which they did so.They need to know that God’s mercy is there for them.The obstacle of overcoming an excommunication, in addition to the reconciliation process may be daunting for many.
 
Jeanne_S said:
You make some valid points.yet the fact remains that most postabortive women deeply regret their decision to abort,regardless of the circumstances in which they did so.
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Is this true, Jeanne? Source?
 
sttcatherinefan said:
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. How would someone decide if they are aware of the penalty? Does a priest get to decide if they are? So if you go to a priest who is having a bad day or is a crabby confessor or just doesn’t like women, he gets to decide this? Oh and as another note, it varies by dioceses. I’ve never heard of this happening in the U.S. and it varies when it does.

Abortion generally takes place under duress which puts it at a lower level of culpability than many other crimes. How about priests using their collar to sexually abuse children? That strikes me as a much more grievous sin than a desperate, poor woman who gets an abortion. And no there shouldn’t be an extra step. How awful to be a woman who regrets her abortion and seeks forgiveness from the Church but to be told by a priest in certain dioceses that they are still excommunicated and not forgiven?

It makes sense to excommunicate people who are profiting from abortion but it doesn’t make sense to treat women the same way as you would treat an abortion doctor.
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It only took 16 posts for the “homosexual priests scandal” to rear its ugly head.
 
nodito said:
Is this true, Jeanne? Source?
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I know that ancedotal evidence is not what you are looking for but in my years of Counseling at a CPC I only ran across one woman who didn’t regret her abortion.I also counseled those often forgotten -the Father of the aborted child.
 
nodito said:
Is this true, Jeanne? Source?
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Ever heard of The Silent No More Campaign? Ever notice the many websites devoted to post abortion depression? Do you know anyone personally who has been hurt by the sin of abortion? I do.😦
 
estesbob said:
I know that ancedotal evidence is not what you are looking for but in my years of Counseling at a CPC I only ran across one woman who didn’t regret her abortion.I also counseled those often forgotten -the Father of the aborted child.
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Amen.The harm of abortion is long reaching,beyond just that of the mother:(:(😦
 
Jeanne_S said:
Ever heard of The Silent No More Campaign? Ever notice the many websites devoted to post abortion depression? Do you know anyone personally who has been hurt by the sin of abortion? I do.😦
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I don’t doubt that women are harmed by abortion. I think it harms everyone, regardless of whether they realize it or not. I am aware of Silent No More and the Project Rachel retreats. I would just be suprised it is were true that “most” women regret their abortions.
 
estesbob said:
I know that ancedotal evidence is not what you are looking for but in my years of Counseling at a CPC I only ran across one woman who didn’t regret her abortion.I also counseled those often forgotten -the Father of the aborted child.
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You have more experience with this than I do. Though I wonder; wouldn’t it make sense that the women you’d see at a crisis pregnancy center would have either never had an abortion or else regretted their previous one(s)? In other words, it may be a skewed sample.

But that said, I don’t really want to argue about it. I agree that abortion harms women (and fathers and siblings and extended family and…).
 
nodito said:
You have more experience with this than I do. Though I wonder; wouldn’t it make sense that the women you’d see at a crisis pregnancy center would have either never had an abortion or else regretted their previous one(s)? In other words, it may be a skewed sample.

But that said, I don’t really want to argue about it. I agree that abortion harms women (and fathers and siblings and extended family and…).
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That could very well be the case. I do know when we started support groups for post abortive women we had a problem accommodating the number who wanted to join. Whether its the majority of not I wouldn’t know but it is a significant number.

PP, BTW, claims those “few” women who have problems have them because of the guilt laid on them by the Church and pro-life groups. It is interesting that these reasons are never mentioned in the support groups.
 
NeedsMercy said:
Geez, I didn’t think it ever really went away 🤷
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It is always an attempt to shut the discussion down. Whether the church handled the homosexual priest scandal correctly or not has no bearing whatsoever on church teaching concerning abortion . But it’s an easy way to take a dig at the church , ignore the topic, and move on
 
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